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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 18:49:04 GMT
I just can't believe some people. Apparently, amongst the crowd protesting today, several members of Momentum have been seen leading the way, plus the Socialist Workers flag has also appeared, with the usual 'tories have blood on their hands' slogans written them. Have these left-wingers no shame in their attempt to use/rile desperate people in an attempt to influence the media/others? The fact that this has been organised is quite disturbing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 20:42:07 GMT
The finger pointing is disgusting. It's an accident.
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Post by inee on Jun 16, 2017 22:34:32 GMT
I just can't believe some people. Apparently, amongst the crowd protesting today, several members of Momentum have been seen leading the way, plus the Socialist Workers flag has also appeared, with the usual 'tories have blood on their hands' slogans written them. Have these left-wingers no shame in their attempt to use/rile desperate people in an attempt to influence the media/others? The fact that this has been organised is quite disturbing. even more disturbing is they have damaged the council offices ,which contain some of the collections of stuff to hand out, theres a note about it on the councils website
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 8:24:09 GMT
Totally agree But, the big but, what is even worse is the non action by the local authorities, leaving these poor people without support for two days. The political consequences for how this building went up in flames so quickly will occur in due course
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 18, 2017 6:05:07 GMT
The finger pointing is disgusting. It's an accident. I agree the finger pointing is wrong, but I'm not so sure that it was strictly just an accident. I personally believe there is some level of negligence at work here too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 6:24:47 GMT
The finger pointing is disgusting. It's an accident. I agree the finger pointing is wrong, but I'm not so sure that it was strictly just an accident. I personally believe there is some level of negligence at work here too. There is almost always human error and negligence when there is an accident. Human accountability is usually the outcome these days as it brings closure to the incident. Same as "Died of natural causes". Now there has to be a definite cause... Negligence makes money aswell which is convenient for some players. Since this will go down the negligence route inevitably. Where does it begin? Manufacturing fault of fridge, PAT test, user error(failing to fix faulty fridge), likewise how does it end? Incompetent firemen, poor building layout/structure, rusty evacuation procedures?
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Post by inee on Jun 18, 2017 11:35:01 GMT
The finger pointing is disgusting. It's an accident. I agree the finger pointing is wrong, but I'm not so sure that it was strictly just an accident. I personally believe there is some level of negligence at work here too. agree, i also agree with people not giving knee jerk reactions to the media, lets get the inquiry underway and make it short,not dragged out over years ,there are lots of things at play here ,from the person who signed off the project to the allegations that the flat the fire stated in the resident managed to pack clothes before alerting one neighbour , some fact mostly rumors. Let the inquiry do their job
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 16:07:43 GMT
The way Corbyn and the Labour party are acting so soon after this tradegy is nothing short of despicable. No other words.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 17:38:08 GMT
The way Corbyn and the Labour party are acting so soon after this tradegy is nothing short of despicable. No other words. Some sympathy for that However how the central government (Tory Controlled) and the Kensington and Chelsea Local government has reacted is incompetent at best, and ideological at worst. West Kensington embraces Holland Park, Notting Hill and the poorer areas of the Westbourne Grove. Was the cladding put on for the people of Westbourne Grove or the aesthetic desires of Holland park? Answer that then use the word disgusting. You might find the word not strong enough. And, the country is being led by a w**ker. following two wankers.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 18:06:03 GMT
The way Corbyn and the Labour party are acting so soon after this tradegy is nothing short of despicable. No other words. Some sympathy for that However how the central government (Tory Controlled) and the Kensington and Chelsea Local government has reacted is incompetent at best, and ideological at worst. West Kensington embraces Holland Park, Notting Hill and the poorer areas of the Westbourne Grove. Was the cladding put on for the people of Westbourne Grove or the aesthetic desires of Holland park? Answer that then use the word disgusting. You might find the word not strong enough. And, the country is being led by a w**ker. following two wankers. Agree the way it has been handled has been appalling. But leave the political swipes and point scoring till after the poor victims' bodies have been recovered. Appreciate people want answers but give their families some dignity. (aimed at Corbyn, Khan et al)
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 18, 2017 22:54:14 GMT
Some sympathy for that However how the central government (Tory Controlled) and the Kensington and Chelsea Local government has reacted is incompetent at best, and ideological at worst. West Kensington embraces Holland Park, Notting Hill and the poorer areas of the Westbourne Grove. Was the cladding put on for the people of Westbourne Grove or the aesthetic desires of Holland park? Answer that then use the word disgusting. You might find the word not strong enough. And, the country is being led by a w**ker. following two wankers. Agree the way it has been handled has been appalling. But leave the political swipes and point scoring till after the poor victims' bodies have been recovered. Appreciate people want answers but give their families some dignity. (aimed at Corbyn, Khan et al) Agree with that. Unless you have a direct involvement it is best to let the investigations conclude. One radio interview I heard talked of "300 people being incinerated" or another suggesting the Government had imposed a D Notice to cover up the true numbers. Apparently a public enquiry is not good enough, has to be a something else. Hyberbole helps no one.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 19, 2017 10:30:08 GMT
Agree the way it has been handled has been appalling. But leave the political swipes and point scoring till after the poor victims' bodies have been recovered. Appreciate people want answers but give their families some dignity. (aimed at Corbyn, Khan et al) Agree with that. Unless you have a direct involvement it is best to let the investigations conclude. One radio interview I heard talked of "300 people being incinerated" or another suggesting the Government had imposed a D Notice to cover up the true numbers. Apparently a public enquiry is not good enough, has to be a something else. Hyberbole helps no one. it's amazing
People want answers (and rightly so), an inquiry is to happen, but that becomes a sore point because it isn't good enough for some and they expect a cover-up
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 10:39:28 GMT
Agree with that. Unless you have a direct involvement it is best to let the investigations conclude. One radio interview I heard talked of "300 people being incinerated" or another suggesting the Government had imposed a D Notice to cover up the true numbers. Apparently a public enquiry is not good enough, has to be a something else. Hyberbole helps no one. it's amazing
People want answers (and rightly so), an inquiry is to happen, but that becomes a sore point because it isn't good enough for some and they expect a cover-up
Because there so often is.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 19, 2017 11:14:35 GMT
it's amazing
People want answers (and rightly so), an inquiry is to happen, but that becomes a sore point because it isn't good enough for some and they expect a cover-up
Because there so often is. Maybe there will be, but can we at least have it first. For some whatever is said and done won't be good enough (and I am not talking about the victims here).
I see the official death toll has risen again. So much for the left wing fake news BS about supressing the numbers and Lilly Allen pontificating on Twitter
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Post by inee on Jun 19, 2017 12:31:53 GMT
Agree the way it has been handled has been appalling. But leave the political swipes and point scoring till after the poor victims' bodies have been recovered. Appreciate people want answers but give their families some dignity. (aimed at Corbyn, Khan et al) Agree with that. Unless you have a direct involvement it is best to let the investigations conclude. One radio interview I heard talked of "300 people being incinerated" or another suggesting the Government had imposed a D Notice to cover up the true numbers. Apparently a public enquiry is not good enough, has to be a something else. Hyberbole helps no one. i read on several sources about the D notice ,it was also said that if the true number of death were known the public wouldn't be able to cope( think it was a copper that said that. The true number of victims will be known in time as people who lived there will talk to each other and give the number of who is missing. One interesting point for me is who will be sorted first as in other housing and government aid ,the reason i wonder about this is because it was a mix of council housing and owner housing. The other issue is who is going to be on the inquiry and are they going to be independent with no party line to tow. The other thing that i think of is how far back do you go to get to the hows and whys
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 13:31:33 GMT
The D-Notice stories were first published by skwawkbox, a Corbynista website. Fake NewsNo doubt the plan is to shout it loud and often, and eventually a certain number of people will believe it. This is just the sort of 'fake news' stuff that should be clamped down on. Another point to make, is that D-Notices are only 'advisory'. They are a request from the government that the media should not mention the story.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 14:31:16 GMT
There are some issues that the media/government seem to be ignoring. For example, two of the victims in the fire were Italian Architecture students, who only arrived in London three months ago. How did they get a council flat so quickly? Is it becomes the flat was sub-rented out (which is illegal)? As Kensington is one of the top areas in London to live, apparently it costs top dollar to get a flat in the area. The scam is that you move to the London area, get a council flat, sub-let it out, and then return to where ever it is you live, with your name slightly amended. You just re-direct your post from the sub-let. Not only do you receive the substantial rent, you probably also receive other benefits. Apparently, it's a money-spinner. 1500 to 2000 quid PCM is the going rate to rent one of those flats. Next, the housing crisis. Looking at the list of the dead and missing, it is obvious that the large majority were, putting it politely, not from these shores? Will anyone at long last say that the Immigration Policy of both Labour and Tory has created this housing crisis? I know some bright spark will pipe up with, "build more council houses", but where does somewhere like Kensington find any land to build on?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 14:43:15 GMT
There are some issues that the media/government seem to be ignoring. For example, two of the victims in the fire were Italian Architecture students, who only arrived in London three months ago. How did they get a council flat so quickly? Is it becomes the flat was sub-rented out (which is illegal)? As Kensington is one of the top areas in London to live, apparently it costs top dollar to get a flat in the area. The scam is that you move to the London area, get a council flat, sub-let it out, and then return to where ever it is you live, with your name slightly amended. You just re-direct your post from the sub-let. Not only do you receive the substantial rent, you probably also receive other benefits. Apparently, it's a money-spinner. 1500 to 2000 quid PCM is the going rate to rent one of those flats. Next, the housing crisis. Looking at the list of the dead and missing, it is obvious that the large majority were, putting it politely, not from these shores? Will anyone at long last say that the Immigration Policy of both Labour and Tory has created this housing crisis? I know some bright spark will pipe up with, "build more council houses", but where does somewhere like Kensington find any land to build on? You know I don't agree with you. However it is a,legitimate question to ask why so many people in social housing in this block were allegedly, recent arrivals Recent for me is within the last two years.
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Post by inee on Jun 19, 2017 14:55:53 GMT
There are some issues that the media/government seem to be ignoring. For example, two of the victims in the fire were Italian Architecture students, who only arrived in London three months ago. How did they get a council flat so quickly? Is it becomes the flat was sub-rented out (which is illegal)? As Kensington is one of the top areas in London to live, apparently it costs top dollar to get a flat in the area. The scam is that you move to the London area, get a council flat, sub-let it out, and then return to where ever it is you live, with your name slightly amended. You just re-direct your post from the sub-let. Not only do you receive the substantial rent, you probably also receive other benefits. Apparently, it's a money-spinner. 1500 to 2000 quid PCM is the going rate to rent one of those flats. Next, the housing crisis. Looking at the list of the dead and missing, it is obvious that the large majority were, putting it politely, not from these shores? Will anyone at long last say that the Immigration Policy of both Labour and Tory has created this housing crisis? I know some bright spark will pipe up with, "build more council houses", but where does somewhere like Kensington find any land to build on? I'm the first to complain when immigrants get council accommodation . However on this occasion theres a simple answer and was mentioned in one of my posts, the block of flats were a mic of council and privately owned flats.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 16:09:47 GMT
So the narrative being peddled about the victims being the 'poorest in society' doesn't really ring true does it? If a number of the flats were privately owned. Also, does this mean the the private owners must have had to pay a certain amount for the maintenance and consequent upgrade to the building. If so, were they also complicit in driving the costs down of that upgrade?
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