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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 15, 2017 14:04:59 GMT
At least it shows, istm, contrary to what a lot of people have suggested, that their negotiations with UWE were sincere. At least from their side.
I don't think i've seen many people saying the UWE negotiations weren't sincere, on the contrary as lets face it, it was Wael's biggest chance to make any money.
I thought we had a good few posts when the news broke along the lines of the AQs couldn't actually afford the development, and this was just their way of saving face.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 14:32:58 GMT
Doing anything more with the Mem is a poor idea, shoved at us to appease the anger following the end of UWE.
More likely Wael will be looking for a way out than a way to get a modern stadium.
That is not what he is saying in his live interviews though is it? The complete opposite in fact.
So why has the training ground skidded to a halt? Surely that can still proceed regardless?
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Post by mumbles on Aug 15, 2017 14:33:25 GMT
Isn't there a water table under the Mem hence the drainage problems we have had? I've heard this before.
I'm intrigued how we have a high water table when we're effectively on top of a hill though....
I understand that there is a spring somewhere under the pitch which has caused problems with the pitch in the past. No reason this couldnt be mitigated allowing the pitch level to be lowered. Underground parking for vips, diabled, players etc could also be constructed alowing more of the site to be used for the stadium. A large amount of cost associated with digging down is associated with disposal. The training ground may well give us the option to reuse this material for landcaping and hence reduce costs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 14:36:13 GMT
Talk is cheap, we all do it.
TBF it has always been the same with whoever is in charge, promise the world and it ends in complete failure. Apart from acquiring the Mem which was fortunately on the cheap.
I thought it would be different with Wael for some reason but now even the training ground development has all gone suspiciously quiet...
I'm not surprised it's gone quiet. A year ago (June 2016) the club were nearly £11m in debt - goodness knows what it is now. And people are now expecting the family to cough up another £30/40 million to redevelop the Mem and another £5m+ to develop The Colony - it's cloud cuckoo land to even contemplate it IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 15:11:55 GMT
That is not what he is saying in his live interviews though is it? The complete opposite in fact.
So why has the training ground skidded to a halt? Surely that can still proceed regardless?
I don't know? Neither do you otherwise you wouldn't be on here flapping around. He seems as though he is committed to the cause in the interviews. Lets wait and see.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 15:19:56 GMT
So why has the training ground skidded to a halt? Surely that can still proceed regardless?
I don't know? Neither do you otherwise you wouldn't be on here flapping around. He seems as though he is committed to the cause in the interviews. Lets wait and see. I have no doubt whatsoever that he is committed.......but what about the real powers in the family? Without the family money, he's basically watering into the wind.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 15:20:17 GMT
So why has the training ground skidded to a halt? Surely that can still proceed regardless?
I don't know? Neither do you otherwise you wouldn't be on here flapping around. He seems as though he is committed to the cause in the interviews. Lets wait and see.
Flapping around? lol
The only one flapping is Hamer in his interviews as he seems to know as much as I do.
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Post by axegas on Aug 15, 2017 15:20:20 GMT
TBF it has always been the same with whoever is in charge, promise the world and it ends in complete failure. Apart from acquiring the Mem which was fortunately on the cheap.
I thought it would be different with Wael for some reason but now even the training ground development has all gone suspiciously quiet...
I'm not surprised it's gone quiet. A year ago (June 2016) the club were nearly £11m in debt - goodness knows what it is now. And people are now expecting the family to cough up another £30/40 million to redevelop the Mem and another £5m+ to develop The Colony - it's cloud cuckoo land to even contemplate it IMO. How is cloud cuckoo land to consider to consider it when the owners have come out and said the finances are in place? They own an investment bank, so I doubt it's hard for them to come up with the money required. As for the debt, it's being serviced and as long as that stays that way it isn't too much to be worried about. We aren't in as bad a position financial as some think.
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Post by peterparker on Aug 15, 2017 15:25:07 GMT
TBF it has always been the same with whoever is in charge, promise the world and it ends in complete failure. Apart from acquiring the Mem which was fortunately on the cheap.
I thought it would be different with Wael for some reason but now even the training ground development has all gone suspiciously quiet...
I'm not surprised it's gone quiet. A year ago (June 2016) the club were nearly £11m in debt - goodness knows what it is now. And people are now expecting the family to cough up another £30/40 million to redevelop the Mem and another £5m+ to develop The Colony - it's cloud cuckoo land to even contemplate it IMO. I am not expecting them to do anything in all honesty. Hoping maybe?
Even if the AL-Qadi's packed up and sold up, whomever took over would have the same dilemma, stumping up money to do The Mem, UWE or anywhere else
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 15:27:29 GMT
I'm not surprised it's gone quiet. A year ago (June 2016) the club were nearly £11m in debt - goodness knows what it is now. And people are now expecting the family to cough up another £30/40 million to redevelop the Mem and another £5m+ to develop The Colony - it's cloud cuckoo land to even contemplate it IMO. How is cloud cuckoo land to consider to consider it when the owners have come out and said the finances are in place? They own an investment bank, so I I doubt it's hard for them to come up with the money required. As for the debt, it's being serviced and as long as that stays that way it isn't too much to be worried about. We aren't in as bad a position financial as some think. Wrong - they don't own an Investment Bank - they have a minority shareholding with the father owning most of the family shares. Wael's holding is less than 4% - they are answerable and accountable to the rest of the shareholders and cannot provide loans through the bank unless approved. Frankly I don't believe a word that Wael is saying about the "money being in place". Would any Bank lend £10's of millions against a non-existent Business Plan - or against an existing plan which has no correlation to the new proposals - absolute nonsense. I admire Wael's enthusiasm but things just do not stack up.
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Post by axegas on Aug 15, 2017 15:58:44 GMT
How is cloud cuckoo land to consider to consider it when the owners have come out and said the finances are in place? They own an investment bank, so I I doubt it's hard for them to come up with the money required. As for the debt, it's being serviced and as long as that stays that way it isn't too much to be worried about. We aren't in as bad a position financial as some think. Wrong - they don't own an Investment Bank - they have a minority shareholding with Hani owning most of the family shares. Wael's holding is less than 4% - they are answerable and accountable to the rest of the shareholders and cannot provide loans through the bank unless approved. Frankly I don't believe a word that Wael is saying about the "money being in place". Would any Bank lend £10's of millions against a non-existent Business Plan - or against an existing plan which has no correlation to the new proposals - absolute nonsense. I admire Wael's enthusiasm but things just do not stack up. The family own a controlling share when all their shares are put together as the father owns 17.6% and the sons own another 13.02%. I wasn't suggesting they use the bank for a loan, I was just trying to say that they are part of the world of raising finances for big projects and it's not entirely impossible to see them raising money for a couple of projects for the club as long as they still think the can get somewhat of a return on their investment. It stacks up because the family bought the club with an ambition of taking the club up the leagues. They will have known the infrastructure needed improving and wouldn't have made such a big commitment if they knew the money wasn't there for the future. The UWE falling through was disappointing but I don't think for a minute that the owners won't build infrastructure at this football club, all they need is sensible plans and permission to build on the site.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 16:29:44 GMT
If they got on with the Colony then I feel a little more confident something might happen at the Mem but really at the moment nothing said gives me much confidence in what Wael, nice guy no doubt, is saying.
Hani and the family will decide what Wael can and cannot do with the Mem.
I worry about the reliance on the 12 experts who will deliver the re-development and do really think the owners need at least an outline vision of what they want to guide the work of this formidable team that Wael is talking-up
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 16:36:45 GMT
If they got on with the Colony then I feel a little more confident something might happen at the Mem but really at the moment nothing said gives me much confidence in what Wael, nice guy no doubt, is saying. Hani and the family will decide what Wael can and cannot do with the Mem. I worry about the reliance on the 12 experts who will deliver the re-development and do really think the owners need at least an outline vision of what they want to guide the work of this formidable team that Wael is talking-up
That's pretty much where I am with it, at least it will show some concrete commitment.
Last I heard they were studying training grounds of other clubs. Since that time I have watched 34 club games in 10 different countries, surely they have time to view a few training grounds?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 16:51:35 GMT
If they got on with the Colony then I feel a little more confident something might happen at the Mem but really at the moment nothing said gives me much confidence in what Wael, nice guy no doubt, is saying. Hani and the family will decide what Wael can and cannot do with the Mem. I worry about the reliance on the 12 experts who will deliver the re-development and do really think the owners need at least an outline vision of what they want to guide the work of this formidable team that Wael is talking-up
That's pretty much where I am with it, at least it will show some concrete commitment.
Last I heard they were studying training grounds of other clubs. Since that time I have watched 34 club games in 10 different countries, surely they have time to view a few training grounds?
I was under the impression that the club already had one planning consent for the site (the original plans) so that established a training set up could at least be there in some form. That the clubs were in discussion with south Glos pre putting in a planning application for the "new" plans for the site. When they have completed the discussions and feel all avenues are covered they will put in formal planning application.
I would imagine that ensuring the training camp is sorted at least at planning level will be a key factor in making sure D.C. keeps faith with BRFC.
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Post by BelieveItWhenIAmSatInIt on Aug 17, 2017 8:46:46 GMT
No, even with our car park their land is bigger than ours. Ashton gate is approx 37,500 sm2 and the Mem is 32,000.... Really not much in it though and plenty of space to be able to do something similar I am sure! But their land includes their car park which sort of just hangs off the bottom of the site. When you look at the square parcel of land that they have built on within their site and compare it to our site which is in effect completely square it's not unreasonable to conclude that the area we can build on is similar in size to the footprint of their stadium. Absolutely, I quite agree.
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Post by peterparker on Aug 17, 2017 8:52:33 GMT
nicked from Dr John Dee.
may not be entirely practical with heights etc, but we can use our imagination
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 8:58:25 GMT
Its not much use comparing our stadium and land potential to bs3. SL has pledged committment and long term investment to a huge project involving many clubs and personnel. His personal donations have many more opportunities to yield returns.
We might have the same size plot of land but we only have a 2nd rate football team to use it and generate income at the moment. Our owners have come from overseas looking for investment opportunity, they have been holding the reigns for a very short time. If UWE was the carrot to encourage that proper investment in something tangible, the family are going to need time to have a real good look at the Mem option. In short, our situation is a complete different beastie to the other mob yet elements of our support assume things are somehow the same with their demands.
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Post by BelieveItWhenIAmSatInIt on Aug 17, 2017 9:01:33 GMT
Its not much use comparing our stadium and land potential to bs3. SL has pledged committment and long term investment to a huge project involving many clubs and personnel. His personal donations have many more opportunities to yield returns. We might have the same size plot of land but we only have a 2nd rate football team to use it and generate income at the moment. Our owners have come from overseas looking for investment opportunity, they have been holding the reigns for a very short time. If UWE was the carrot to encourage that proper investment in something tangible, the family are going to need time to have a real good look at the Mem option. In short, our situation is a complete different beastie to the other mob yet elements of our support assume things are somehow the same with their demands. Nope. Nobody is comparing our situation in any other way than simply the land our stadiums sit on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 9:10:16 GMT
The car park alongside the Mem is a decent size, but it's nowhere near big enough so why not use the space th increase the footprint of the new stadium? Someone posted elsewhere that AG is slightly larger in area than the Mem. I would have thought that with the car park included the Mem site would be a good bit bigger. If the Sh1t got a 26k stadium on their land, I see no reason why we can't at least match that. Dwain Sports would have to re-locate us for a couple of years and move an awful lot of soil, but the beauty of that is is a good part of the stadium could be below ground level, and with integrity of design it would be a much neater construction than that abortion south of the river. Parking around there is a pain, but Railtrack are looking at opening Ashley Down station and surely the bus company and coach operators wouldn't be averse to making some money on match days laying on services to the ground. No, even with our car park their land is bigger than ours. Ashton gate is approx 37,500 sm2 and the Mem is 32,000.... Really not much in it though and plenty of space to be able to do something similar I am sure! Yet this post suggests we can "do something similar" with the space... Theres more to it than space.
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Post by BelieveItWhenIAmSatInIt on Aug 17, 2017 9:18:39 GMT
No, even with our car park their land is bigger than ours. Ashton gate is approx 37,500 sm2 and the Mem is 32,000.... Really not much in it though and plenty of space to be able to do something similar I am sure! Yet this post suggests we can "do something similar" with the space... Theres more to it than space. Of course, but as neither you or I know the ins and outs of the clubs finances and how we plan to use them, we can only really discuss facts. Fact is, we have a very similar sized plot of land to 'them down south'.. I am excited / anxious / skeptical / hopeful to see what Wael and family have planned for the land we have.
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