|
Post by Gas_Quarters on Sept 7, 2017 13:34:38 GMT
These conversations just go around in circles and the same people (including me) make the same arguments over and over again on one side or the other. I think we just need to accept that some people tend to look at most things with a positive attitude whereas some people look at most things to moan about and find fault in everything they possibly can. Neither side is more itk or more right or wrong than the other, it just comes down to people's attitudes to life and towards the club.
|
|
|
Post by casey12a on Sept 7, 2017 14:28:20 GMT
Very true and we'll only know one way or another if something actually gets built.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 14:34:30 GMT
Very true and we'll only know one way or another if something actually gets built.
The training ground will be a good indication of Wael's long term commitment, as the stadium doesn't look like being transformed anytime soon.
|
|
|
Post by singupgas on Sept 7, 2017 16:15:04 GMT
im one of those who doesn't believe anything will happen in my lifetime and im 25.
|
|
|
Post by beaver132 on Sept 7, 2017 16:23:56 GMT
Someone who if definitely ITK has told us all that's it's the UWE's fault. The problem is people chose or choose not to believe him - WAQ.
It's hard to trust anyone who isn't close to you, especially someone who isn't local, doesn't support the club and so far hasn't risked much money apart from that used against the ground.
It's not about trust; its about whether you think he's lieing or not. Different thing. He's not shown anything so far that makes me think he's a liar. You?
|
|
|
Post by socrates on Sept 7, 2017 17:19:04 GMT
It's hard to trust anyone who isn't close to you, especially someone who isn't local, doesn't support the club and so far hasn't risked much money apart from that used against the ground.
It's not about trust; its about whether you think he's lieing or not. Different thing. He's not shown anything so far that makes me think he's a liar. You? He's done everything he's said he would.
|
|
|
Post by toddy1953 on Sept 7, 2017 18:49:05 GMT
Ff you're really ITK then tells more as to whose fault it was? The UWE's or the ALQ's? Nick Higgs for agreeing to such a poor deal for the club in the LONG run. Wael is looking in the LONG run for a sustainable not some short gain, long pain deal NH maybe at fault for a lot of things Henbury, but not for the ALQ's withdrawal from the UWE deal. I can't believe that they did not know the insides & out of the UWE deal before the takeover. They were promising that we needed a new stadium to progress & a long term future as a club, from day one - although only ever seemed 'warm' on the UWE build. Then spent 18 months to decide it was not worth it. What has changed? My opinion is that it wasn't right for the ALQ's & any investors, first & foremost, maybe due to change of economic climate & risk resulting from Brexit vote, or maybe just because they couldn't strike a deal with UWE over the land. Maybe they possibly underestimated UWE as an organisation & got pi**ed off? Who knows? The only thing kmown for sure is the amateurish way the news was broken. For some, myself included, who had been 'supportive' of patience, towards the ALQ's, now feel they need to see more than words from our owners - yes Backroom staff, Development Squad, Land purchased for the future plans of a Training ground has been put in place, but this can be dismantled just as quickly as it's been put in place. If we are to attract players (youngsters or otherwise) & future fans we need to provide a Stadium, suitable for the 21st Century. We need this sooner than later or there won't be any Long run for the club.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 18:58:16 GMT
Nick Higgs for agreeing to such a poor deal for the club in the LONG run. Wael is looking in the LONG run for a sustainable not some short gain, long pain deal NH maybe at fault for a lot of things Henbury, but not for the ALQ's withdrawal from the UWE deal. I can't believe that they did not know the insides & out of the UWE deal before the takeover. They were promising that we needed a new stadium to progress & a long term future as a club, from day one - although only ever seemed 'warm' on the UWE build. Then spent 18 months to decide it was not worth it. What has changed? My opinion is that it wasn't right for the ALQ's & any investors, first & foremost, maybe due to change of economic climate & risk resulting from Brexit vote, or maybe just because they couldn't strike a deal with UWE over the land. Maybe they possibly underestimated UWE as an organisation & got pi**ed off? Who knows? The only thing kmown for sure is the amateurish way the news was broken. For some, myself included, who had been 'supportive' of patience, towards the ALQ's, now feel they need to see more than words from our owners - yes Backroom staff, Development Squad, Land purchased for the future plans of a Training ground has been put in place, but this can be dismantled just as quickly as it's been put in place. If we are to attract players (youngsters or otherwise) & future fans we need to provide a Stadium, suitable for the 21st Century. We need this sooner than later or there won't be any Long run for the club. This is key for me, until something is actually built I will always be wary of the owners, who I guess are doing this all for love of the game?
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Sept 7, 2017 19:36:12 GMT
Nick Higgs for agreeing to such a poor deal for the club in the LONG run. Wael is looking in the LONG run for a sustainable not some short gain, long pain deal NH maybe at fault for a lot of things Henbury, but not for the ALQ's withdrawal from the UWE deal. I can't believe that they did not know the insides & out of the UWE deal before the takeover. They were promising that we needed a new stadium to progress & a long term future as a club, from day one - although only ever seemed 'warm' on the UWE build. Then spent 18 months to decide it was not worth it. What has changed? My opinion is that it wasn't right for the ALQ's & any investors, first & foremost, maybe due to change of economic climate & risk resulting from Brexit vote, or maybe just because they couldn't strike a deal with UWE over the land. Maybe they possibly underestimated UWE as an organisation & got pi**ed off? Who knows? The only thing kmown for sure is the amateurish way the news was broken. For some, myself included, who had been 'supportive' of patience, towards the ALQ's, now feel they need to see more than words from our owners - yes Backroom staff, Development Squad, Land purchased for the future plans of a Training ground has been put in place, but this can be dismantled just as quickly as it's been put in place. If we are to attract players (youngsters or otherwise) & future fans we need to provide a Stadium, suitable for the 21st Century. We need this sooner than later or there won't be any Long run for the club. Yeah, I'm with you mate. f**k WAQ and his family for not completely accepting a really sh**e, one sided deal that Sir Nick laid on a plate for them. And how dare they spend months trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear before eventually having to pull out because they couldn't make it worth BRFCs while even though they knew how bad that would make them look. Sir Nick. Would you have him back?
|
|
|
Post by newmarketgas on Sept 7, 2017 19:47:55 GMT
NH maybe at fault for a lot of things Henbury, but not for the ALQ's withdrawal from the UWE deal. I can't believe that they did not know the insides & out of the UWE deal before the takeover. They were promising that we needed a new stadium to progress & a long term future as a club, from day one - although only ever seemed 'warm' on the UWE build. Then spent 18 months to decide it was not worth it. What has changed? My opinion is that it wasn't right for the ALQ's & any investors, first & foremost, maybe due to change of economic climate & risk resulting from Brexit vote, or maybe just because they couldn't strike a deal with UWE over the land. Maybe they possibly underestimated UWE as an organisation & got pi**ed off? Who knows? The only thing kmown for sure is the amateurish way the news was broken. For some, myself included, who had been 'supportive' of patience, towards the ALQ's, now feel they need to see more than words from our owners - yes Backroom staff, Development Squad, Land purchased for the future plans of a Training ground has been put in place, but this can be dismantled just as quickly as it's been put in place. If we are to attract players (youngsters or otherwise) & future fans we need to provide a Stadium, suitable for the 21st Century. We need this sooner than later or there won't be any Long run for the club. Yeah, I'm with you mate. f**k WAQ and his family for not completely accepting a really sh**e, one sided deal that Sir Nick laid on a plate for them. And how dare they spend months trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear before eventually having to pull out because they couldn't make it worth BRFCs while even though they knew how bad that would make them look. Sir Nick. Would you have him back? That would be the 'really sh**e, one sided deal' that the new boys said they were really close to going ahead with, several times ! Landing lights and such. They must be pretty thick themselves if they were going ahead with it so often. Mr Higgs was no legend but he did some good and deserves a little respect from people who could not do the job themselves.
|
|
|
Post by CostaBlancaGas on Sept 7, 2017 20:02:12 GMT
I know it's me and I'll probably get slated for this but it's the complete nothingness that we get out of the club now. It's like a black hole. We all seem to be the perverbial mushrooms these days. I think the non-communication from the club is a very poor backward step. But then that's me. I'll get my coat!!
|
|
|
Post by cavalloschiaffo on Sept 7, 2017 20:07:58 GMT
Yeah, I'm with you mate. f**k WAQ and his family for not completely accepting a really sh**e, one sided deal that Sir Nick laid on a plate for them. And how dare they spend months trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear before eventually having to pull out because they couldn't make it worth BRFCs while even though they knew how bad that would make them look. Sir Nick. Would you have him back? That would be the 'really sh**e, one sided deal' that the new boys said they were really close to going ahead with, several times ! Landing lights and such. They must be pretty thick themselves if they were going ahead with it so often. Mr Higgs was no legend but he did some good and deserves a little respect from people who could not do the job themselves.
|
|
|
Post by knowall on Sept 7, 2017 20:15:20 GMT
Nick Higgs for agreeing to such a poor deal for the club in the LONG run. Wael is looking in the LONG run for a sustainable not some short gain, long pain deal NH maybe at fault for a lot of things Henbury, but not for the ALQ's withdrawal from the UWE deal. I can't believe that they did not know the insides & out of the UWE deal before the takeover. They were promising that we needed a new stadium to progress & a long term future as a club, from day one - although only ever seemed 'warm' on the UWE build. Then spent 18 months to decide it was not worth it. What has changed? My opinion is that it wasn't right for the ALQ's & any investors, first & foremost, maybe due to change of economic climate & risk resulting from Brexit vote, or maybe just because they couldn't strike a deal with UWE over the land. Maybe they possibly underestimated UWE as an organisation & got pi**ed off? Who knows? The only thing kmown for sure is the amateurish way the news was broken. For some, myself included, who had been 'supportive' of patience, towards the ALQ's, now feel they need to see more than words from our owners - yes Backroom staff, Development Squad, Land purchased for the future plans of a Training ground has been put in place, but this can be dismantled just as quickly as it's been put in place. If we are to attract players (youngsters or otherwise) & future fans we need to provide a Stadium, suitable for the 21st Century. We need this sooner than later or there won't be any Long run for the club.
|
|
|
Post by knowall on Sept 7, 2017 20:20:13 GMT
NH maybe at fault for a lot of things Henbury, but not for the ALQ's withdrawal from the UWE deal. I can't believe that they did not know the insides & out of the UWE deal before the takeover. They were promising that we needed a new stadium to progress & a long term future as a club, from day one - although only ever seemed 'warm' on the UWE build. Then spent 18 months to decide it was not worth it. What has changed? My opinion is that it wasn't right for the ALQ's & any investors, first & foremost, maybe due to change of economic climate & risk resulting from Brexit vote, or maybe just because they couldn't strike a deal with UWE over the land. Maybe they possibly underestimated UWE as an organisation & got pi**ed off? Who knows? The only thing kmown for sure is the amateurish way the news was broken. For some, myself included, who had been 'supportive' of patience, towards the ALQ's, now feel they need to see more than words from our owners - yes Backroom staff, Development Squad, Land purchased for the future plans of a Training ground has been put in place, but this can be dismantled just as quickly as it's been put in place. If we are to attract players (youngsters or otherwise) & future fans we need to provide a Stadium, suitable for the 21st Century. We need this sooner than later or there won't be any Long run for the club. As Nick Higgs co-directors did not know the insides and out then it is not surprising the Al-Qadi's did not know. In due course the truth will out - and that should be within six to twelve months.
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Sept 7, 2017 20:36:41 GMT
NH maybe at fault for a lot of things Henbury, but not for the ALQ's withdrawal from the UWE deal. I can't believe that they did not know the insides & out of the UWE deal before the takeover. They were promising that we needed a new stadium to progress & a long term future as a club, from day one - although only ever seemed 'warm' on the UWE build. Then spent 18 months to decide it was not worth it. What has changed? My opinion is that it wasn't right for the ALQ's & any investors, first & foremost, maybe due to change of economic climate & risk resulting from Brexit vote, or maybe just because they couldn't strike a deal with UWE over the land. Maybe they possibly underestimated UWE as an organisation & got pi**ed off? Who knows? The only thing kmown for sure is the amateurish way the news was broken. For some, myself included, who had been 'supportive' of patience, towards the ALQ's, now feel they need to see more than words from our owners - yes Backroom staff, Development Squad, Land purchased for the future plans of a Training ground has been put in place, but this can be dismantled just as quickly as it's been put in place. If we are to attract players (youngsters or otherwise) & future fans we need to provide a Stadium, suitable for the 21st Century. We need this sooner than later or there won't be any Long run for the club. Yeah, I'm with you mate. f**k WAQ and his family for not completely accepting a really sh**e, one sided deal that Sir Nick laid on a plate for them. And how dare they spend months trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear before eventually having to pull out because they couldn't make it worth BRFCs while even though they knew how bad that would make them look. Sir Nick. Would you have him back? It's odd how posters on here are happy to blame NH for the UWE plans failing not Wael, even though the latter apparently had one of the best team in the UK working on it for 18 months but couldn't broker a deal. if it was such a bad deal why didn't Wael just walk away from it when he received the feasibility study, which must have said "deal or no deal" was possible. If the deal fell apart because the UWE kept moving the goalposts then NH can hardly take the blame for that.
|
|
|
Post by toddy1953 on Sept 7, 2017 20:44:48 GMT
As Nick Higgs co-directors did not know the insides and out then it is not surprising the Al-Qadi's did not know. In due course the truth will out - and that should be within six to twelve months. Perhaps they didn't, but I am sure an Investment Bank, buying the club would have known. If they didn't get their legal team to look at the deal, then they can't complain. Either way whether the original deal was good or bad - it's not NH that is to blame. Polite question- do you know that the truth will out, or us this just guesswork, and when will it take 6-12 months?
|
|
|
Post by beaver132 on Sept 7, 2017 21:21:15 GMT
Yeah, I'm with you mate. f**k WAQ and his family for not completely accepting a really sh**e, one sided deal that Sir Nick laid on a plate for them. And how dare they spend months trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear before eventually having to pull out because they couldn't make it worth BRFCs while even though they knew how bad that would make them look. Sir Nick. Would you have him back? That would be the 'really sh**e, one sided deal' that the new boys said they were really close to going ahead with, several times ! Landing lights and such. They must be pretty thick themselves if they were going ahead with it so often. Mr Higgs was no legend but he did some good and deserves a little respect from people who could not do the job themselves. No, not that deal; the deal they were trying to get the one they've said time and again that they thought they were getting from UWE, only for UWE to keep reverting to the old agreement. Then the UWE were given a time limit to agree fundamental requirements and failed to do so. That deal, not the first one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 22:11:48 GMT
It seems the options were. 1)Do nothing at the Mem until H&S forced issues or the EFL changed rules on stadia. 2) rebuild the Mem into a half decent sized stadium with some income .However this would need someone elses money as Rovers and its board had enough for the planning apps but no more. 3) Get offered land to build a new fancy stadium using funds raised by selling the Mem site but have a poor lease deal. 4) Find new owners with more money.
Option one is the one that's been here for the last 20 years and into the near future. Option 2 was tried and failed when others pulled out. option 3 was tried as it was the only option going forward until option 4 came along.
Option 4 was the outcome.
The UWE deal was dead the minute Sainsburys walked away. Why else did the desperate losing legal battle occur. The new owners held onto the UWE deal ,but unlike the previous board who were solely governed by money from the Mem sale and so had no room to negotiate.The new board had different money and more ,therefore the same rules didn't apply. The new board were not hostages willing to pay any deal. They tried to change the criteria but UWE who had a very good deal before obviously were not keen to lose out and held fast. The outcome was obvious. The only change as far as the UWE stadium is concerned is if the uni come back to Rovers and offer to start again from scratch and find a new way forward that can be profitable to both parties. Otherwise the New Mem will be built. So long as planning goes through it will be built.
That's my take on it all.
|
|
|
Post by gasincider on Sept 7, 2017 23:04:24 GMT
I think it's pretty obvious that whilst Wael and Co (probably) did due diligence on the football club, they either failed to do so on the proposed UWE deal, or did a pretty crap job of doing so. I wonder if this is why two of the original consultants employed by the club have now disappeared amid rumours of legal action.
The reality is, that much like the last 40 or so years, we are no nearer to a decent stadium than we were since Eastville. I like Wael, but in reality, what has he said which convinces anyone that we will end up with the stadium we all want, wherever it may be? We have had soundbite after soundbite, and the local EPost making about 20 stories from a 10 minute interview with Wael.
Sorry, but I don't believe anything positive on the stadium front is going to be generated by our current owners. Why after years of the same promises being made by owner after owner, do people think Wael is the Messiah? I think he would like to be, but his family have put the block on it big time.
As for blaming whoever for the debacle over a new stadium, all we have been told is that UWE kept moving the goalposts on detail we thought had been agreed. So much for secrecy then. If that is the reason, actually come out and confirm that that is the reason. Don't hide behind secrecy, as if the aforementioned is the reason, you have already breached it. If it's not, then we have been lied too. I personally don't believe that not meeting a deadline WE have imposed is the reason to throw away hundreds of thousands of pounds of effort in trying to close the deal. It is much simpler than that. The money is not there and whoever was putting up the funding has got cold feet.
As for UWE, they say they don't know why we have walked away. It strikes me that after being fed bullsh*t by various owners for 40 years plus, I can't believe how easily many people on here are prepared to believe yet more dubious reasons put out by our owners, with nothing to back it up, except to say ' we can't say more as it is subject to a secrecy agreement.
Being kept in the dark and fed like mushrooms comes to mind.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Sept 8, 2017 6:56:41 GMT
Yeah, I'm with you mate. f**k WAQ and his family for not completely accepting a really sh**e, one sided deal that Sir Nick laid on a plate for them. And how dare they spend months trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear before eventually having to pull out because they couldn't make it worth BRFCs while even though they knew how bad that would make them look. Sir Nick. Would you have him back? It's odd how posters on here are happy to blame NH for the UWE plans failing not Wael, even though the latter apparently had one of the best team in the UK working on it for 18 months but couldn't broker a deal. if it was such a bad deal why didn't Wael just walk away from it when he received the feasibility study, which must have said "deal or no deal" was possible. If the deal fell apart because the UWE kept moving the goalposts then NH can hardly take the blame for that. But those blaming WAQ are citing as fact that NH had handed over the club with the UWE deal on a plate. If that were so isn't it fair to say it is NHs fault that the done deal was actually no good? Furthermore we were told by Sir Nick that he had complete faith that he was handing over the club to the best buyer who only had the club's best interests and who had the money to take us forward. Did he do due diligence on the new owners himself? Probably the truth is neither side appears to have to have done well by us. Both sides have to take some blame surely?
|
|