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Post by Gassy on Sept 27, 2017 7:27:44 GMT
So I've been having a think about our central pairing and how many goals they've been shipping. It got me thinking that one of them has to be dropped and on current form, it has to be Lockyer.
Lockyer & Sweeney Results:
4-1 (L)
3-2 (W)
3-1 (W)
2-1 (W)
3-2 (L)
3-0 (L)
0-1 (W)
3-0 (L)
Total Conceded: 17. Average Per Game: 2.125
Without the Pair:
1-0 (L)
3-1 (L)
1-0 (L)
3-1 (W)
Total Conceded: 6. Average Per Game: 1.5
Curious to hear people's thoughts. Personally, I'd like to see Broadbent & Sweeney on Saturday
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Post by drasim on Sept 27, 2017 8:09:51 GMT
To further this:
Portsmouth - 3 conceded - 2 crosses, 1 run at defence
Blackpool - 1 conceded - 1 long ball, striker unmarked
Wigan - 3 conceded - 1 set piece, 1 cross, 1 run at defence
Oldham - 3 conceded - 1 long shot, 2 play from wide,
Walsall - 1 conceded - 1 corner
Bradford - 3 conceded - 2 corners, 1 cross
Fleetwood - 1 conceded - 1 cross
Bury - 2 conceded - 1 corner, 1 cross
Peterborough - 4 conceded - 2 crosses, 1 corner, 1 central goal
Charlton - 1 conceded - 1 cross (free kick)
I think it's fair to say where the issue lies
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Post by axegas on Sept 27, 2017 8:36:14 GMT
The question is who is the weak link? Sweeney has certainly not been the player he was last year but Lockyer has been poor too. So far the best defensive pairing we've had this season was Broadbent and Sweeney in the second half of the Blackpool game but I doubt we'd see that again as DC doesn't like two CB's who use the same foot.
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Post by knowall on Sept 27, 2017 8:42:41 GMT
The question is who is the weak link? Sweeney has certainly not been the player he was last year but Lockyer has been poor too. So far the best defensive pairing we've had this season was Broadbent and Sweeney in the second half of the Blackpool game but I doubt we'd see that again as DC doesn't like two CB's who use the same foot. Oh for a return to the days when players had two feet!! |
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Post by scoobydoogas on Sept 27, 2017 8:52:33 GMT
So I've been having a think about our central pairing and how many goals they've been shipping. It got me thinking that one of them has to be dropped and on current form, it has to be Lockyer. Lockyer & Sweeney Results: 4-1 (L) 3-2 (W) 3-1 (W) 2-1 (W) 3-2 (L) 3-0 (L) 0-1 (W) 3-0 (L) Total Conceded: 17. Average Per Game: 2.125 Without the Pair: 1-0 (L) 3-1 (L) 1-0 (L) 3-1 (W) Total Conceded: 6. Average Per Game: 1.5 Curious to hear people's thoughts. Personally, I'd like to see Broadbent & Sweeney on Saturday I know these weren't all league games but if they were :
12 points from 8 games with the pairing = 1.5 pts per game (finish the season just outside the play offs on 69 points)
3 points from 4 games without the pairing = 0.75 points per game (finish the season relegated on 35 points)
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Post by Gassy on Sept 27, 2017 9:33:48 GMT
So I've been having a think about our central pairing and how many goals they've been shipping. It got me thinking that one of them has to be dropped and on current form, it has to be Lockyer. Lockyer & Sweeney Results: 4-1 (L) 3-2 (W) 3-1 (W) 2-1 (W) 3-2 (L) 3-0 (L) 0-1 (W) 3-0 (L) Total Conceded: 17. Average Per Game: 2.125 Without the Pair: 1-0 (L) 3-1 (L) 1-0 (L) 3-1 (W) Total Conceded: 6. Average Per Game: 1.5 Curious to hear people's thoughts. Personally, I'd like to see Broadbent & Sweeney on Saturday I know these weren't all league games but if they were :
12 points from 8 games with the pairing = 1.5 pts per game (finish the season just outside the play offs on 69 points)
3 points from 4 games without the pairing = 0.75 points per game (finish the season relegated on 35 points)
I thought this might come up - so I've had my reply prepared  Half of the Lockyer & Sweeney games were at home while 3/4 were away for without the pairing. Also, those games have been through a lack of scoring, not conceding, which would more come down to the strikers IMO. I do agree with drasim though, clearly heading the ball from crosses & set pieces is a massive problem. For me, i'd start Broadbent & Sweeney on Saturday |
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Post by james246 on Sept 27, 2017 11:44:59 GMT
In my opinion the central defensive partnership should be Sweeney and Broadbent this would a paring of gentlemen both of whom have considerable substance, and well capable of sorting out ant rock and roll by the opponents. Forget that they are both left footed, in the clubs history we have on plenty of occasions had central defence partnerships where both defenders have been right footed.
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Post by scoobydoogas on Sept 27, 2017 12:05:03 GMT
In my opinion the central defensive partnership should be Sweeney and Broadbent this would a paring of gentlemen both of whom have considerable substance, and well capable of sorting out ant rock and roll by the opponents. Forget that they are both left footed, in the clubs history we have on plenty of occasions had central defence partnerships where both defenders have been right footed. As Knowall said earlier in this thread, why can't we have players that can kick with both feet? Then the central defensive pairing dilemma is less complicated. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 27, 2017 12:32:05 GMT
The question is who is the weak link? Sweeney has certainly not been the player he was last year but Lockyer has been poor too. So far the best defensive pairing we've had this season was Broadbent and Sweeney in the second half of the Blackpool game but I doubt we'd see that again as DC doesn't like two CB's who use the same foot. Blackpool played with one striker upfront, I guess it was fairly easy for two defenders to mark one striker? You can;t overlook TB played at Bradford and was too blame for their third. Having said that I'd try Locks & TB as Locks former and Sweeney doesn't appear to be working this season. I just hope Bliss doesn't play on Saturday!! Although Slocombe gives me no confidence on corners, were he stand rooted to the spot, perhaps we're missing Lumley more than we think, is a fit Smith now a better option than Slocombe? |
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Post by aghast on Sept 27, 2017 13:46:41 GMT
In my opinion the central defensive partnership should be Sweeney and Broadbent this would a paring of gentlemen both of whom have considerable substance, and well capable of sorting out ant rock and roll by the opponents. Forget that they are both left footed, in the clubs history we have on plenty of occasions had central defence partnerships where both defenders have been right footed. "ant rock and roll"? |
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Sept 27, 2017 17:53:13 GMT
In my opinion the central defensive partnership should be Sweeney and Broadbent this would a paring of gentlemen both of whom have considerable substance, and well capable of sorting out ant rock and roll by the opponents. Forget that they are both left footed, in the clubs history we have on plenty of occasions had central defence partnerships where both defenders have been right footed. "ant rock and roll"? Who gives adam? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 17:58:40 GMT
Sadly Lockyer is a firm manager favorite, Team Captain and one of the weak links ... Has to Broadbent and Sweeney for me albeit Sweeney is unrecognisable from the awesome man mountain, from last year.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 18:18:30 GMT
Don't concede so many corners and stop players crossing the ball might be somewhere to start.
Crosses coming in perhaps because the full backs are either caught out of position on the attack or being doubled up on and being overwhelmed.
I have been shot down before for daring to mention it but....play full backs in the wide positions in a 4-4-2 away from home.
If Brown and Partington have assists already from full back it shows that they can get forward and cross a ball...which is what wingers do.
So play Brown & Bola one side and Leadbitter & Partington the other.
It should also make it harder for the opposition wide men to get forward and cross the ball...therefore less crosses for the centrebacks to deal with.
How does this effect Bodin ? well means the team play with one striker and Bodin then has a free role across the front line.
If D.C. wants to go for it late in the game then sure take one of the "fullbacks" off for an extra attacker.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 27, 2017 20:47:41 GMT
Don't concede so many corners and stop players crossing the ball might be somewhere to start. Crosses coming in perhaps because the full backs are either caught out of position on the attack or being doubled up on and being overwhelmed. I have been shot down before for daring to mention it but....play full backs in the wide positions in a 4-4-2 away from home. If Brown and Partington have assists already from full back it shows that they can get forward and cross a ball...which is what wingers do. So play Brown & Bola one side and Leadbitter & Partington the other. It should also make it harder for the opposition wide men to get forward and cross the ball...therefore less crosses for the centrebacks to deal with. How does this effect Bodin ? well means the team play with one striker and Bodin then has a free role across the front line. If D.C. wants to go for it late in the game then sure take one of the "fullbacks" off for an extra attacker. One problem with that suggestion is Leads seems to be out injured? Plus Bodin is taken out of his favoured position where he scores regularly at the Mem, although he seems a different player away from home. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 21:02:47 GMT
Don't concede so many corners and stop players crossing the ball might be somewhere to start. Crosses coming in perhaps because the full backs are either caught out of position on the attack or being doubled up on and being overwhelmed. I have been shot down before for daring to mention it but....play full backs in the wide positions in a 4-4-2 away from home. If Brown and Partington have assists already from full back it shows that they can get forward and cross a ball...which is what wingers do. So play Brown & Bola one side and Leadbitter & Partington the other. It should also make it harder for the opposition wide men to get forward and cross the ball...therefore less crosses for the centrebacks to deal with. How does this effect Bodin ? well means the team play with one striker and Bodin then has a free role across the front line. If D.C. wants to go for it late in the game then sure take one of the "fullbacks" off for an extra attacker. One problem with that suggestion is Leads seems to be out injured? Plus Bodin is taken out of his favoured position where he scores regularly at the Mem, although he seems a different player away from home. Injuries will always cause changes..you do what you can though. BB given a free role can drift wide right if he wishes just means Partington steps inside for a bit thus allowing one of the midfield centre pair to move forward if they wish. The idea though is to give BB the freedom to go where he can find space.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 23:03:52 GMT
Don't concede so many corners and stop players crossing the ball might be somewhere to start. Crosses coming in perhaps because the full backs are either caught out of position on the attack or being doubled up on and being overwhelmed. I have been shot down before for daring to mention it but....play full backs in the wide positions in a 4-4-2 away from home. If Brown and Partington have assists already from full back it shows that they can get forward and cross a ball...which is what wingers do. So play Brown & Bola one side and Leadbitter & Partington the other. It should also make it harder for the opposition wide men to get forward and cross the ball...therefore less crosses for the centrebacks to deal with. How does this effect Bodin ? well means the team play with one striker and Bodin then has a free role across the front line. If D.C. wants to go for it late in the game then sure take one of the "fullbacks" off for an extra attacker. So you want to play 4-4-2 with 4 full backs! madness |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 16:14:16 GMT
Don't concede so many corners and stop players crossing the ball might be somewhere to start. Crosses coming in perhaps because the full backs are either caught out of position on the attack or being doubled up on and being overwhelmed. I have been shot down before for daring to mention it but....play full backs in the wide positions in a 4-4-2 away from home. If Brown and Partington have assists already from full back it shows that they can get forward and cross a ball...which is what wingers do. So play Brown & Bola one side and Leadbitter & Partington the other. It should also make it harder for the opposition wide men to get forward and cross the ball...therefore less crosses for the centrebacks to deal with. How does this effect Bodin ? well means the team play with one striker and Bodin then has a free role across the front line. If D.C. wants to go for it late in the game then sure take one of the "fullbacks" off for an extra attacker. So you want to play 4-4-2 with 4 full backs! madness Can our fullbacks pass the ball ? can they run with the ball ? can they cross the ball ? can they score the occasional goal ? can they tackle ? can they shepherd players into safer areas of the pitch ?
Madness would suggest the answer to all the above is NO.
Ian Alexander was a winger turned into a fullback. David Mehew and Billy Bodin were strikers who moved to right wing. David Pritchard was a full back who moved to midfield Gary Penrice was a striker that moved to midfield Carl Saunders came to rovers as a reserve team fullback and then played upfront. Geoff Bradford played in every outfield position. Gerraint Williams was a full back who moved to midfield. Even Gary Mabbutt played games in midfield for Rovers. Im sure there are plenty more.
So suggesting players can not play in different locations on the pitch is really the madness is it not ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 22:20:04 GMT
So you want to play 4-4-2 with 4 full backs! madness Can our fullbacks pass the ball ? can they run with the ball ? can they cross the ball ? can they score the occasional goal ? can they tackle ? can they shepherd players into safer areas of the pitch ?
Madness would suggest the answer to all the above is NO.
Ian Alexander was a winger turned into a fullback. David Mehew and Billy Bodin were strikers who moved to right wing. David Pritchard was a full back who moved to midfield Gary Penrice was a striker that moved to midfield Carl Saunders came to rovers as a reserve team fullback and then played upfront. Geoff Bradford played in every outfield position. Gerraint Williams was a full back who moved to midfield. Even Gary Mabbutt played games in midfield for Rovers. Im sure there are plenty more.
So suggesting players can not play in different locations on the pitch is really the madness is it not ?
all 4 players are used to facing the play in their career,when you play wide of a 4 man midfield you sometimes have your back to goal which means its a very different role. All professional players can play in different positions of course but i cant see dc opting for your idea. |
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Post by midlandgas213 on Sept 28, 2017 22:31:25 GMT
The question is who is the weak link? Sweeney has certainly not been the player he was last year but Lockyer has been poor too. So far the best defensive pairing we've had this season was Broadbent and Sweeney in the second half of the Blackpool game but I doubt we'd see that again as DC doesn't like two CB's who use the same foot. Oh for a return to the days when players had two feet!! I have 2 feet and now I have to play walking football for the over 55's and I still ruptured my Achilles tendon |
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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 29, 2017 11:04:15 GMT
excellent thread and some real proper ideas from anghymhwysedd
The left foot / right foot thing is a little strange. Ditto the idea that players have just one position. Lots of players today play in other positions and in the past it was sometimes more. One interesting thing in modern football is that full backs are now expected to be tall as well. and most centre backs very tall, yet also nimble. Vaughan Jones started at right back, played a lot at centre back, and then finished as a left back. and he was not tall. I'm not suggesting we play a small central defender; just an example of how things change. I doubt anyone could imagine Joner as a centre back now!
Sadly you see a lot of teams come to us with 2 enormous centre backs - none of this little and large combo - just 2 big sods. I suspect there are times we should match that against their strikers although I realise that second guessing the oppositions front line is not an easy task and some fans don't like it fullstop and would prefer us to concentrate on ourselves.
Certainly something has to change. Defensively we've been poor and away from home is becoming a joke - we might as well just forfeit the game, especially at the 'bigger' teams / stadiums. Are there psychological issues in there??
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