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Post by Strange Gas on Oct 20, 2017 7:48:39 GMT
I imagine it has to be something to do with VAT. The club or DS will be instructed to pay VAT on anything to do with the colony as it's in the U.K. DS or DC is offshore so pays no VAT. That can create a massive headache as I well know having deal with clients that live in tax havens and HMRC is quick to try to penalise but bog slow to give you clearance or authority to operate because every U.K. Based client will charge you VAT on services or products. VAT is a minefield and a complete ball ache. It won't be stamp duty or anything to do with the purchase of the land, that has to be paid regardless So we are also owned by tax dodgers then? Well, I'd imagine there must be some intent for DS to deploy "tax efficient" approaches to running the business else why be based offshore, although given the owners of DS are Jordanian nationals, they are genuinely offshore to the UK anyway. Doesn't change fact they won't be fully within UK taxation, although isn't there a BRFC Ltd which is? I'm sure others will know better but with VAT, I think DS will have to pay it and can't recover it in the way UK businesses can if based offshore. I think you can only recover it if you can prove you are consuming goods / services overseas!
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Post by LJG on Oct 20, 2017 8:16:41 GMT
Buying more tim to make up more excuses? What would the point in doing that be? It would just get us more frustrated and harm relations even more between support and ownership/off the pitch management. We have to have faith or we will go mad. Tax only becomes an issue if The Colony makes a profit, which it isn't going to do before February. Regardless what's stopping them seeking pp now even if building doesn't start until next year. It does sound like its an excuse just to buy time when a month ago seeking pp was imminent. Sorry but that is completely wrong. If you're developing commercial land there will be Stamp Duty Land Tax implications. A classic mistake to make would be to start digging first then sort out the SDLT issues later. That's how you get whacked by HMRC.
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Post by knowall on Oct 20, 2017 8:27:37 GMT
I imagine it has to be something to do with VAT. The club or DS will be instructed to pay VAT on anything to do with the colony as it's in the U.K. DS or DC is offshore so pays no VAT. That can create a massive headache as I well know having deal with clients that live in tax havens and HMRC is quick to try to penalise but bog slow to give you clearance or authority to operate because every U.K. Based client will charge you VAT on services or products. VAT is a minefield and a complete ball ache. It won't be stamp duty or anything to do with the purchase of the land, that has to be paid regardless Well done gashead1981 - at least someone on this forum knows what they are talking about - too many guessers around which is what causes so much information appearing to be fact
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Post by peterparker on Oct 20, 2017 8:28:38 GMT
Genuine question - why is there a Dwane Sports and a Dwane Colony. - both registered in Jersey? Dwane Colony registered in January almost a month before The Colony announcement was made public. Presumably it 'ring fences' both Companies and are both separate entities? Perhaps we can expect another Company soon - Dwane Stadium. - registerd in Jersey? All part of a much bigger picture developing me thinks!! If they are two wholly separate companies, than I guess it just keeps that asset away from the creditors should anyone come knocking at BRFC's door
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Post by Henbury Gas on Oct 20, 2017 8:32:26 GMT
Genuine question - why is there a Dwane Sports and a Dwane Colony. - both registered in Jersey? Dwane Colony registered in January almost a month before The Colony announcement was made public. Presumably it 'ring fences' both Companies and are both separate entities? Perhaps we can expect another Company soon - Dwane Stadium. - registerd in Jersey? All part of a much bigger picture developing me thinks!! If they are two wholly separate companies, than I guess it just keeps that asset away from the creditors When anyone come knocking at BRFC's door Corrected that for you
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Post by knowall on Oct 20, 2017 8:33:57 GMT
I imagine it has to be something to do with VAT. The club or DS will be instructed to pay VAT on anything to do with the colony as it's in the U.K. DS or DC is offshore so pays no VAT. That can create a massive headache as I well know having deal with clients that live in tax havens and HMRC is quick to try to penalise but bog slow to give you clearance or authority to operate because every U.K. Based client will charge you VAT on services or products. VAT is a minefield and a complete ball ache. It won't be stamp duty or anything to do with the purchase of the land, that has to be paid regardless So we are also owned by tax dodgers then?No people who are businessmen - should be standard procedure
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Post by seanclevedongas on Oct 20, 2017 9:32:08 GMT
Forgot to mention last night but the question was asked about the consortium. Apparently people at the club (but not SH) had been approached by an ex News of the World journalist that SH knew of from his Swansea days. Nothing substantial was forthcoming and SH referred to the approach as a hoax
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Post by pirate49 on Oct 20, 2017 10:22:30 GMT
Forgot to mention last night but the question was asked about the consortium. Apparently people at the club (but not SH) had been approached by an ex News of the World journalist that SH knew of from his Swansea days. Nothing substantial was forthcoming and SH referred to the approach as a hoax ......said there's always people out there 'representing consortia' circling and looking for clubs to take over. But no Chinese, American etc approaches/bids had been made.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 20, 2017 12:15:25 GMT
Tax only becomes an issue if The Colony makes a profit, which it isn't going to do before February. Regardless what's stopping them seeking pp now even if building doesn't start until next year. It does sound like its an excuse just to buy time when a month ago seeking pp was imminent. Sorry but that is completely wrong. If you're developing commercial land there will be Stamp Duty Land Tax implications. A classic mistake to make would be to start digging first then sort out the SDLT issues later. That's how you get whacked by HMRC. I sense you are wrong as well as SDLT becomes payable on purchase, not sure what "digging" has got to do with SDLT, as assuming DS(C) have completed buying the land then SDLT will already be payable/paid. I don't believe there's any way around paying that even if the company is reg overseas. www.gov.uk/stamp-duty-land-tax
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Post by LJG on Oct 20, 2017 12:43:50 GMT
Sorry but that is completely wrong. If you're developing commercial land there will be Stamp Duty Land Tax implications. A classic mistake to make would be to start digging first then sort out the SDLT issues later. That's how you get whacked by HMRC. I sense you are wrong as well as SDLT becomes payable on purchase, not sure what "digging" has got to do with SDLT, as assuming DS(C) have completed buying the land then SDLT will already be payable/paid. I don't believe there's any way around paying that even if the company is reg overseas. www.gov.uk/stamp-duty-land-taxI'm afraid your sense is wrong. SDLT is not only payable on purchase but any other transaction involving land including the acquisition of any "chargeable interest" being "1. an estate, interest, right or power in or over land .. or 2. the benefit of an obligation, restriction or condition affecting the value of any such estate, interest, right or power". A development of this kind will require easements and wayleaves for the provision of amenities such as running water and electricity. The acquisition of those are SDLTable transactions. I also quite clearly didn't say anything about "any way around that" I clearly referred to proper planning for those events. As someone else has rightly said VAT planning will be in point. Development of commercial land is a standard rated supply for VAT. Services supplied by contractors will be charged at different rates for example architects and surveyors are standard rated - Trade contractors such as a carpenter will be zero rated. There are plenty of VAT events during a development process. In any event the suggestion that tax is not in point until there is a profit is totally and utterly wrong. I'm not going to bother arguing with you about it. I definitely know what I'm talking about on this one.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 13:46:58 GMT
Forgot to mention last night but the question was asked about the consortium. Apparently people at the club (but not SH) had been approached by an ex News of the World journalist that SH knew of from his Swansea days. Nothing substantial was forthcoming and SH referred to the approach as a hoax The very same journa list who has recently wrote a book and only last week an article about our club that was debated on this very forum.
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Post by LJG on Oct 20, 2017 14:06:11 GMT
Forgot to mention last night but the question was asked about the consortium. Apparently people at the club (but not SH) had been approached by an ex News of the World journalist that SH knew of from his Swansea days. Nothing substantial was forthcoming and SH referred to the approach as a hoax The very same journa list who has recently wrote a book and only last week an article about our club that was debated on this very forum. That book dunt look bad for a holiday read like.
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Post by You can call me Al. on Oct 20, 2017 14:15:55 GMT
I sense you are wrong as well as SDLT becomes payable on purchase, not sure what "digging" has got to do with SDLT, as assuming DS(C) have completed buying the land then SDLT will already be payable/paid. I don't believe there's any way around paying that even if the company is reg overseas. www.gov.uk/stamp-duty-land-taxI'm afraid your sense is wrong. SDLT is not only payable on purchase but any other transaction involving land including the acquisition of any "chargeable interest" being "1. an estate, interest, right or power in or over land .. or 2. the benefit of an obligation, restriction or condition affecting the value of any such estate, interest, right or power". A development of this kind will require easements and wayleaves for the provision of amenities such as running water and electricity. The acquisition of those are SDLTable transactions. I also quite clearly didn't say anything about "any way around that" I clearly referred to proper planning for those events. As someone else has rightly said VAT planning will be in point. Development of commercial land is a standard rated supply for VAT. Services supplied by contractors will be charged at different rates for example architects and surveyors are standard rated - Trade contractors such as a carpenter will be zero rated. There are plenty of VAT events during a development process. In any event the suggestion that tax is not in point until there is a profit is totally and utterly wrong. I'm not going to bother arguing with you about it. I definitely know what I'm talking about on this one.Well there's a first time for everything.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 20, 2017 17:22:04 GMT
I sense you are wrong as well as SDLT becomes payable on purchase, not sure what "digging" has got to do with SDLT, as assuming DS(C) have completed buying the land then SDLT will already be payable/paid. I don't believe there's any way around paying that even if the company is reg overseas. www.gov.uk/stamp-duty-land-taxI'm afraid your sense is wrong. SDLT is not only payable on purchase but any other transaction involving land including the acquisition of any "chargeable interest" being "1. an estate, interest, right or power in or over land .. or 2. the benefit of an obligation, restriction or condition affecting the value of any such estate, interest, right or power". A development of this kind will require easements and wayleaves for the provision of amenities such as running water and electricity. The acquisition of those are SDLTable transactions. I also quite clearly didn't say anything about "any way around that" I clearly referred to proper planning for those events. As someone else has rightly said VAT planning will be in point. Development of commercial land is a standard rated supply for VAT. Services supplied by contractors will be charged at different rates for example architects and surveyors are standard rated - Trade contractors such as a carpenter will be zero rated. There are plenty of VAT events during a development process. In any event the suggestion that tax is not in point until there is a profit is totally and utterly wrong. I'm not going to bother arguing with you about it. I definitely know what I'm talking about on this one. Unless we've been misinformed DS(C) have already bought the land, so there's no logic in waiting until next Feb to sort out any SDLT issues as SDLT becomes payable at the point of purchase, anyway you seem to be mistaken as this is the list of tax reliefs given on the Government website. www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-relief-for-land-or-property-transactions#property-developer-subject-to-planning-obligationsVAT is another topic but I'm not sure of the significance of February on that issue, given that our tax years run April to April. If the ground is going to paid for by DS(C) in full I assume that means BRFC1883 will be stuck renting it rather than actually owning it.
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Post by knowall on Oct 20, 2017 17:31:00 GMT
I'm afraid your sense is wrong. SDLT is not only payable on purchase but any other transaction involving land including the acquisition of any "chargeable interest" being "1. an estate, interest, right or power in or over land .. or 2. the benefit of an obligation, restriction or condition affecting the value of any such estate, interest, right or power". A development of this kind will require easements and wayleaves for the provision of amenities such as running water and electricity. The acquisition of those are SDLTable transactions. I also quite clearly didn't say anything about "any way around that" I clearly referred to proper planning for those events. As someone else has rightly said VAT planning will be in point. Development of commercial land is a standard rated supply for VAT. Services supplied by contractors will be charged at different rates for example architects and surveyors are standard rated - Trade contractors such as a carpenter will be zero rated. There are plenty of VAT events during a development process. In any event the suggestion that tax is not in point until there is a profit is totally and utterly wrong. I'm not going to bother arguing with you about it. I definitely know what I'm talking about on this one. Unless we've been misinformed DS(C) have already bought the land, so there's no logic in waiting until next Feb to sort out any SDLT issues as SDLT becomes payable at the point of purchase, anyway you seem to be mistaken as this is the list of tax reliefs given on the Government website. www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-relief-for-land-or-property-transactions#property-developer-subject-to-planning-obligationsVAT is another topic but I'm not sure of the significance of February on that issue, given that our tax years run April to April. If the ground is going to paid for by DS(C) in full I assume that means BRFC1883 will be stuck renting it rather than actually owning it. Suggest you look at the Rovers a/c's over the last fifty years to see plenty of examples of Directors charging rent etc for facilities they own.
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Post by LJG on Oct 20, 2017 18:34:04 GMT
I'm afraid your sense is wrong. SDLT is not only payable on purchase but any other transaction involving land including the acquisition of any "chargeable interest" being "1. an estate, interest, right or power in or over land .. or 2. the benefit of an obligation, restriction or condition affecting the value of any such estate, interest, right or power". A development of this kind will require easements and wayleaves for the provision of amenities such as running water and electricity. The acquisition of those are SDLTable transactions. I also quite clearly didn't say anything about "any way around that" I clearly referred to proper planning for those events. As someone else has rightly said VAT planning will be in point. Development of commercial land is a standard rated supply for VAT. Services supplied by contractors will be charged at different rates for example architects and surveyors are standard rated - Trade contractors such as a carpenter will be zero rated. There are plenty of VAT events during a development process. In any event the suggestion that tax is not in point until there is a profit is totally and utterly wrong. I'm not going to bother arguing with you about it. I definitely know what I'm talking about on this one. Unless we've been misinformed DS(C) have already bought the land, so there's no logic in waiting until next Feb to sort out any SDLT issues as SDLT becomes payable at the point of purchase, anyway you seem to be mistaken as this is the list of tax reliefs given on the Government website. www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-relief-for-land-or-property-transactions#property-developer-subject-to-planning-obligationsVAT is another topic but I'm not sure of the significance of February on that issue, given that our tax years run April to April. If the ground is going to paid for by DS(C) in full I assume that means BRFC1883 will be stuck renting it rather than actually owning it. Like is said. I know what I'm talking about so I'm not going to argue about it. You're wrong.
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Post by LJG on Oct 20, 2017 18:36:26 GMT
I'm afraid your sense is wrong. SDLT is not only payable on purchase but any other transaction involving land including the acquisition of any "chargeable interest" being "1. an estate, interest, right or power in or over land .. or 2. the benefit of an obligation, restriction or condition affecting the value of any such estate, interest, right or power". A development of this kind will require easements and wayleaves for the provision of amenities such as running water and electricity. The acquisition of those are SDLTable transactions. I also quite clearly didn't say anything about "any way around that" I clearly referred to proper planning for those events. As someone else has rightly said VAT planning will be in point. Development of commercial land is a standard rated supply for VAT. Services supplied by contractors will be charged at different rates for example architects and surveyors are standard rated - Trade contractors such as a carpenter will be zero rated. There are plenty of VAT events during a development process. In any event the suggestion that tax is not in point until there is a profit is totally and utterly wrong. I'm not going to bother arguing with you about it. I definitely know what I'm talking about on this one. Unless we've been misinformed DS(C) have already bought the land, so there's no logic in waiting until next Feb to sort out any SDLT issues as SDLT becomes payable at the point of purchase, anyway you seem to be mistaken as this is the list of tax reliefs given on the Government website. www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-relief-for-land-or-property-transactions#property-developer-subject-to-planning-obligationsVAT is another topic but I'm not sure of the significance of February on that issue, given that our tax years run April to April. If the ground is going to paid for by DS(C) in full I assume that means BRFC1883 will be stuck renting it rather than actually owning it. Also that relief is for the transfer of title from a proprietor to a developer. Nothing to do with what I was talking about. You do not know what you're talking about.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 20, 2017 19:17:16 GMT
Unless we've been misinformed DS(C) have already bought the land, so there's no logic in waiting until next Feb to sort out any SDLT issues as SDLT becomes payable at the point of purchase, anyway you seem to be mistaken as this is the list of tax reliefs given on the Government website. www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-relief-for-land-or-property-transactions#property-developer-subject-to-planning-obligationsVAT is another topic but I'm not sure of the significance of February on that issue, given that our tax years run April to April. If the ground is going to paid for by DS(C) in full I assume that means BRFC1883 will be stuck renting it rather than actually owning it. Also that relief is for the transfer of title from a proprietor to a developer. Nothing to do with what I was talking about. You do not know what you're talking about. That section "Stamp Duty Land Tax: relief for land or property transactions" is the only one mentioning SDLT tax relief, if it's wrong then it seems you know more than our own Government's website. Regardless I can't see saving a few % on SDLT will hold up a £m development for 6 months or so.
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Post by LJG on Oct 20, 2017 20:02:33 GMT
Also that relief is for the transfer of title from a proprietor to a developer. Nothing to do with what I was talking about. You do not know what you're talking about. That section "Stamp Duty Land Tax: relief for land or property transactions" is the only one mentioning SDLT tax relief, if it's wrong then it seems you know more than our own Government's website. Regardless I can't see saving a few % on SDLT will hold up a £m development for 6 months or so. You literally do not have a clue what you're talking about. You're just trying to guess. The website isn't wrong its just got nothing to do with what I referred to.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Oct 20, 2017 23:27:58 GMT
That section "Stamp Duty Land Tax: relief for land or property transactions" is the only one mentioning SDLT tax relief, if it's wrong then it seems you know more than our own Government's website. Regardless I can't see saving a few % on SDLT will hold up a £m development for 6 months or so. You literally do not have a clue what you're talking about. You're just trying to guess. The website isn't wrong its just got nothing to do with what I referred to. Go to bed you need all your energy for tomorrow
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