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Post by WeAreTheGas on Nov 25, 2017 22:39:30 GMT
I think we have a psychological issue when we play ‘big’ clubs in big stadiums away from home in the league.
Have we played in a game like this and brought back all 3 points since Southampton in 2009?
Norwich away - lost.
Leeds away - drawn and lost.
Sheffield W away - lost.
Sheffield U away - lost.
Bolton away - drew.
Portsmouth away - always lose.
Millwall - always lose.
MK Dons - drawn and lost.
Charlton away - lost.
Wigan away - lost.
Bradford away - drawn and lost.
Coventry away - lost.
Blackburn away - lost.
Maybe I’m talking rubbish because I suppose by definition an away game at a big ground is one that we’re not likely to be favourites in, but we do seem to make a habit of being the ‘plucky loser’ in matches like this (today being another example).
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Post by Qatar Gas on Nov 26, 2017 4:43:49 GMT
I think you are 100% correct on this one. This is something I have pointed out for a long time. We just don't beat these teams away from home.
Rather than the big grounds, I looked a couple of months back at all the ex premiership (circa year 2000 plus) that we have played away from home since the Southampton game in 2009 and we haven't won any.
So from your list above I don't include MK Dons or Millwall but I did add Bradford where we have had some draws but still not won there for some time. Also added Wigan plus we lost to Southampton the year after beating them.
We are just lucky that on the biggest stage (the biggest stadium in the country) we have done well!
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Post by Qatar Gas on Nov 26, 2017 5:30:08 GMT
Here is our record away to ex premiership teams (from this century) since the Southampton victory in 2009.
09/10 Season:
Norwich - Lost
Charlton - Lost
Leeds - Lost
10/11 Season:
Charlton - Drew
Sheffield Wednesday - Lost
Southampton - Lost
11/12 Season:
Bradford - Drew
12/13 Season:
Bradford - Lost
13/14 Season:
Portsmouth - Lost
15/16 Season:
Portsmouth - Lost
16/17 Season:
Bradford - Drew
Sheffield United - Lost
Charlton - Lost
Bolton - Drew
Coventry - Lost
17/18 Season:
Charlton - Lost
Bradford - Lost
Wigan - Lost
Portsmouth - Lost
Blackburn - Lost
So that's: P20 W0 D4 L16
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Post by northseagas on Nov 26, 2017 5:37:24 GMT
I was thinking the same ,we never seem to pull off a decent result
at "bigger stadiums". We always take the support but apart from the
odd draw and a decent preformace we never seem to pull it off ,and you can add
the bigger cup games we have played over the years to that list as well
Birmingham,Chelsea and wolves To name a few.
Last time I reckon we actually won a away at a " bigger stadium " would have been
the 3.2 Southampton .
I know this thread will probably get pulled to pieces over the next day or so but facts are
facts. But has it ever been any different over the years.
Just part and parcel of watching the rovers
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Post by Qatar Gas on Nov 26, 2017 6:10:19 GMT
I was thinking the same ,we never seem to pull off a decent result at "bigger stadiums". We always take the support but apart from the odd draw and a decent preformace we never seem to pull it off ,and you can add the bigger cup games we have played over the years to that list as well Birmingham,Chelsea and wolves To name a few. Last time I reckon we actually won a away at a " bigger stadium " would have been the 3.2 Southampton . I know this thread will probably get pulled to pieces over the next day or so but facts are facts. But has it ever been any different over the years. Just part and parcel of watching the rovers I think Oxford is probably the only place of late where we take good numbers and do well. I didn't include cup games in my list of ex prem teams played, but even if I did, I think only Fulham away this season would have been the only win. Also this isn't just a DC thing! The list covers a number of managers. Like I said its a good job we do the complete opposite at Wembley! |
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Post by gasandelectricity on Nov 26, 2017 8:04:33 GMT
Charlton away and Blackburn away this season wassat definitely a problem. With the refereeing staff not our players.
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Post by legas on Nov 26, 2017 8:26:05 GMT
Unconscious referee bias towards the big sides at home against the ‘smaller’ side? Definitely some games we should have got something from and had bad luck rather than lack of effort (Sheffield United and Wolves spring to mind). Certainly some games where we’ve just not turned up but that happens sometimes regardless of the opposition.
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Post by bluegas on Nov 26, 2017 9:00:54 GMT
Charlton away and Blackburn away this season wassat definitely a problem. With the refereeing staff not our players. Exactly. So hardly bears out the premise of this thread. One would think the reverse - there's every incentive/motivation to play well. And impress. Possibly bigger,better grounds are the homes of bigger, better teams, hence our lack of success at them. Yesterday we in fact played far better than last week at home & were unlucky not to get a result. |
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Post by gasincider on Nov 26, 2017 9:55:26 GMT
Totally disagree. I saw all the games mentioned, and whilst in a couple of cases we seemed to freeze on the big occasion, it is nowhere near always.
Last season for instance, we certainly didn't freeze at Bolton or Sheffield Utd. We were by far the better team on each occasion.
Without going back over history, just take yesterday for example. Were you there? If so, you would know that the only reason we lost, or more to the point, didn't win, was because of a gentleman who was supposedly a neutral ref, giving Blackburn everything he could, and very little to us.
Why was the goal disallowed? No offside in it. The teams were waiting to start again when it finally got disallowed.
Why was the penalty given? I don't know either. Watched it on goal rush, and it wasn't a penalty in my opinion, ( couldn't tell at the time )
Why were Blackburn defenders on at least two occasions allowed to shirt pull on our strikers without us getting a penalty? I don't know either.
The problem is once again, at our level, it's the refs and linesmen that get blinded by the big clubs, more so than the team we put out.
Even their fans, were saying after the game, that the ref got them out of jail. Steve H spoke with the assessor after the game, and he said he didn't know why the goal was disallowed.
It's surely time to bring in technology now. Too many games are being decided on the whim of incompetent referees. You see it on match of the day, and they are supposed to be our best officials.
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Nov 26, 2017 11:18:17 GMT
Totally disagree. I saw all the games mentioned, and whilst in a couple of cases we seemed to freeze on the big occasion, it is nowhere near always. Last season for instance, we certainly didn't freeze at Bolton or Sheffield Utd. We were by far the better team on each occasion. Without going back over history, just take yesterday for example. Were you there? If so, you would know that the only reason we lost, or more to the point, didn't win, was because of a gentleman who was supposedly a neutral ref, giving Blackburn everything he could, and very little to us. Why was the goal disallowed? No offside in it. The teams were waiting to start again when it finally got disallowed. Why was the penalty given? I don't know either. Watched it on goal rush, and it wasn't a penalty in my opinion, ( couldn't tell at the time ) Why were Blackburn defenders on at least two occasions allowed to shirt pull on our strikers without us getting a penalty? I don't know either. The problem is once again, at our level, it's the refs and linesmen that get blinded by the big clubs, more so than the team we put out. Even their fans, were saying after the game, that the ref got them out of jail. Steve H spoke with the assessor after the game, and he said he didn't know why the goal was disallowed. It's surely time to bring in technology now. Too many games are being decided on the whim of incompetent referees. You see it on match of the day, and they are supposed to be our best officials. I haven’t said that we freeze or don’t play well in these games? My point is that we do often play well in these games - Bolton away last season, Sheff U away last season, Blackburn yesterday, Charlton this season we deserved a point - but what always happens? We lose or at the very best, draw. I’ve never known a side as ‘unlucky’ as us when we play these sides away from home. How many times has it been that goal that shouldn’t have been, or that goal that should have been, or that sitter missed to win it, or that unjust sending off blah blah blah. The plucky losers! Look at the stats in Qatar Gas’ second post, and that’s not even including some of the games in mine at the top. Either we are genuinely the unluckiest side on the planet when we play these bigger sides at their place, or we have to look at more than just poor refereeing decisions (which we definitely have had some of). I find it astonishing that AFC Wimbledon went to Blackburn earlier this season and won despite all the bad refereeing decisions they must have got; or that Oldham won at Portsmouth this season despite all the bad refereeing decision they must have got; or that Plymouth won at Bradford this season despite all the bad refereeing decisions they must have got etc. Or is it just unlucky, hard-done-by Bristol Rovers that the refereeing gods conspire against in these big games? There’s only so many times we can be ‘the victim’ before that starts to not wash with me anymore. |
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Post by peterhooper57 on Nov 26, 2017 11:26:29 GMT
Its not psychological, bigger clubs are bigger for a reason, more resources generally equals a better team, stadium, etc. ... we cannot compete and will generally lose. O ye and the officials generally favour the bigger clubs, as yesterday proved.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 12:15:01 GMT
Good performances at Wolves, Fulham against weakened sides?
Clubs with 20k crowds, ex-Championship squads and/or parachute payments are going to end up near the top of the league with a good home record, its not psychological.
Aside from Cov last year the results aren't that surprising.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 12:16:31 GMT
Its not psychological, bigger clubs are bigger for a reason, more resources generally equals a better team, stadium, etc. ... we cannot compete and will generally lose. O ye and the officials generally favour the bigger clubs, as yesterday proved. True but the mind-set of players and belief they can win is also important and I do also wonder whether some players get a few doubts in their minds against the bigger names, clearly not always the case and agree refereeing often plays a part . I only played at a very low level but I know the reputation of some clubs did have an effect on expectations and belief but then it can also make some raise their game. The psychology of football is a complex issue but is a factor in performance as self-belief can raise a players game without doubt. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 26, 2017 14:10:07 GMT
Its not psychological, bigger clubs are bigger for a reason, more resources generally equals a better team, stadium, etc. ... we cannot compete and will generally lose. O ye and the officials generally favour the bigger clubs, as yesterday proved. But the table doesn't support that view as Shrewsbury were top Blackburn 6th before yesterday's games, this season we seem to have been "unlucky" with refereeing decisions, the no goal at Charlton and yesterday's decisions, and it's perhaps them who are influenced more than the players at the bigger grounds. |
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Post by dragonfly on Nov 26, 2017 15:48:35 GMT
We have long since had the labels - Rag bag and poor facilities. Just reading this forum we complain that few decent players would want to come here due to the poor facilities. I am sure that this has a downward effect on our Club and the poor results against the ex premier sides. Other than during the 1950's and 1990's we have had poor results against the sh**e. We know they have had access to more money, better facilities, more fans and more of a swagger than us. Perhaps we could make a start by not keep drawing attention to our labels. Also perhaps we should demand a public explanation of the UWE events and more importantly our future from our faceless/silent leader, Hani AQ.
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Post by bradfordmeyerbiggs on Nov 26, 2017 16:03:55 GMT
Nigel Clough nailed it yesterday when he gave an interview post match after Burton lost against Sunderland. You have to be realistic and say that they will have bigger support, a bigger budget and will attract bigger name players as they are ambitious today and not 5 - 10 years down the line. This is another reason this club needs to be developing.
Rovers only selling point to a player is that he might get regular football and will be in the shop window for a better opportunity with a big club in the future. Rovers certainly have a track record for producing players who go on to brighter futures.
Probability would see Rovers expecting to lose more than win against bigger clubs. The fan base is the only big thing about Rovers, but even that is in the balance with the latest lack of progression updates.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 13:16:40 GMT
I'd sh*t myself at Buckingham Palace compared to my gaff - Its natural!
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Post by rusho'gas on Nov 27, 2017 13:49:11 GMT
Haven't read all of the thread but there are other less salubrious facilities where we traditionally cannot win either. Ladies and Gentlemen I offer Gillingham, Crewe and Southend which almost always end in defeat. Thank god we have broken the Northampton and Oxford jinx for now.
We were robbed by sheer rank refereeing at Blackburn, well beaten at Wigan and gave fantastic performances at Sheffield United and Bolton with differing outcomes.
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Post by Colyton Gas on Nov 27, 2017 18:47:38 GMT
Is the reciprocal scenario also valid? When Bolton,Sheff 'Utd,Charlton etc visited us last season did they feel that we had a non league set up and could win easily.Recall the Bolton fans saying on their Forum of our Tent,' They have a stand like something from Chernobyl'.
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Post by bluestone on Nov 27, 2017 19:40:31 GMT
I think you make a fair point but I think the bigger issue is that we seem to also have the same problem with the club's from the lower leagues! Notts County, Swindon, Barrow just some of the recent examples.
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