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Post by Gastroenteritis on Dec 12, 2017 23:27:31 GMT
I’m currently working in Milton Keynes and staying in the Double Tree hotel, for those who don’t know it, it’s situated within the MK Dons football stadium. Every time I go back to my room after work a feeling of envy comes over me. It really is a fantastic stadium fit for the premiership, but it’s not just the stadium that makes me envious. Although I’m not sure about the business particulars with regards to who owns the ground and who gets the generated revenue, I can’t help but be in awe of the amount of revenue streams their are. I briefly counted at least 8 seperate premises incorporated within the stadium, these included but wasn’t limited to bars, gym, hotel, restaurants and conference spaces, and these were only on one side of the stadium. Just think of all the ground rents being generated as revenue for the club, it truly makes me wonder why MK dons are so sh1t. I’m envious of the car park and surrounding area which is home to a brand new eating and drinking area. The stadium is in my opinion truly brilliant yet modest, I would happily see the gas in this “souless bowl”. The words revenue streams and Bristol Rovers don’t mix, I mean what do we actually have? Match day tickets, club shop and hospitality, it’s no wonder we can’t pay players high salary’s or even the minimum wage. We need this type of setup to progress and that why the Mem will never be a viable option. This brings me to the other part of the thread title ‘crossroad’. For me Bristol rovers are at a crossraod, one way will either allow us to progress to a sustainable club, or the other to our eventual extinction. I say this because we are, as much as people hate to admit it massively effected by our friends across the river. I talk in terms of future potential generations of fans. At the moment we are tinpot...yes I said it, but we do offset that by only being one league behind, plus if we had plans to build a new stadium, regardless of our league position we would capture the hearts of Bristol’s youth by having the underdog appeal. If we were in the championship but still at the Mem we would match their level thus also attracting future fans. Even if they got promoted to the prem and we stayed in league 1 but still had the prospect of a new state of the art ground, we would still recruit support. The problem i fear is that they may well get promoted to the prem. This is a problem not because I’m jealous or hate them, it’s because it leaves us in a precarious position where we cannot attract the the fans of the future. Languishing in league one without two pennies to rub together will not appeal to the young, especially when another team In bristol plays agains the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United etc in a big stadium with good facilities. Yes we will always maintain our die hard gas fanbase but this in time will fade as the individuals on the terraces age and pass. Generations truly lost. I genuinely fear for our future. We need investment, new stadium, and most importantly new revenue streams just to even stay in the race let alone win it.
I believe we need to start organising peacefull protests, nothing aggressive, hostile, nasty or offensive just a way of showing how we fear that without proper investment by any ownership that the club will die. We need to stress that evolution will be too little too late. I admit I don’t have the answers to our woes or have 100million to put in to the club. Some you will be just as happy to watch us in the conference, I respect your loyalty but I for one will not.
Did not mean this to be too negative, just wanted to express the urgency of our situation and see If people had an appetite to mobilise the fan base in a peaceful manner and put pressure on our owners.
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Post by gregsy on Dec 12, 2017 23:42:48 GMT
Interesting observations, thanks for posting....
One thing I think we need to understand about the English football league pyramid system these days is that compared to the days of old facilities rule.... Oxford at the manor ground, Luton at Kenilworth were competitive in the top flight in division 1 days with crap facilities.... And why.... Because Liverpool, man utd, arsenal, spurs etc all had crap facilities as well.... Sadly we have not seen an improvement in my lifetime (other than ground ownership) and it's hard to accept that the holy grail of premium football is probably further away than ever.... So many clubs have infrastructure and I think these days it's fair to assume that the bottle-neck to get to the premier league starts half way down league 1....
I understand your feelings....
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Post by Gastroenteritis on Dec 12, 2017 23:53:43 GMT
Interesting observations, thanks for posting.... One thing I think we need to understand about the English football league pyramid system these days is that compared to the days of old facilities rule.... Oxford at the manor ground, Luton at Kenilworth were competitive in the top flight in division 1 days with crap facilities.... And why.... Because Liverpool, man utd, arsenal, spurs etc all had crap facilities as well.... Sadly we have not seen an improvement in my lifetime (other than ground ownership) and it's hard to accept that the holy grail of premium football is probably further away than ever.... So many clubs have infrastructure and I think these days it's fair to assume that the bottle-neck to get to the premier league starts half way down league 1.... I understand your feelings.... yeah and I’m not saying it’s easy to do but you imo anything less will just be a club that just hemorages money, surely our owners understand this. Maybe they do have a long term plan but when they say this involves the men it fills me with zero hope. The Mems footprint is not big enough to house the revenue streams. A scheme on a new site it definitely required at minimum, I’m not even saying UWE for me that ship has sailed. That bottle neck will be even lower with each passing season. I’m truly gutted by our current circumstances.
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Post by gregsy on Dec 13, 2017 0:05:28 GMT
Interesting observations, thanks for posting.... One thing I think we need to understand about the English football league pyramid system these days is that compared to the days of old facilities rule.... Oxford at the manor ground, Luton at Kenilworth were competitive in the top flight in division 1 days with crap facilities.... And why.... Because Liverpool, man utd, arsenal, spurs etc all had crap facilities as well.... Sadly we have not seen an improvement in my lifetime (other than ground ownership) and it's hard to accept that the holy grail of premium football is probably further away than ever.... So many clubs have infrastructure and I think these days it's fair to assume that the bottle-neck to get to the premier league starts half way down league 1.... I understand your feelings.... yeah and I’m not saying it’s easy to do but you imo anything less will just be a club that just hemorages money, surely our owners understand this. Maybe they do have a long term plan but when they say this involves the men it fills me with zero hope. The Mems footprint is not big enough to house the revenue streams. A scheme on a new site it definitely required at minimum, I’m not even saying UWE for me that ship has sailed. That bottle neck will be even lower with each passing season. I’m truly gutted by our current circumstances. I guess that we won't have anything close to what MK have ever, so the reality is the owners have to decide how and where to take the club, I guess with the competition as we both suggested, then in the short term improvements have to be made to sustain our current status at the very least....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 0:28:22 GMT
What chance do we have to talk to our owner? And by that I don't mean Wael, I mean DS, or whoever is in charge of finance (that certainly isn't Wael judging by Hamer's interview). Didn't we have two representatives on the board? What are they up to? Mind you I bet they couldn't pick Hani out of an identity parade. So given the lack of any sort of plan from the top and the lack of any two way dialogue between supporters and DS so we get a clear view of what is affordable and what isn't we have reached an impasse. So in principle I agree that we need to encourage Dwane Sports to be more accountable. The problem is that I don't think people care about the financial side enough to turn out in numbers for any sort of peaceful demonstration. Many seem happy just to have a club to support. I am tired of seeing this club constantly be tinpot. The owners come and go but it is the same old tired tune being played. Most of all I would love clarity on the UWE- is there still the possibility of a deal? Can it be resurrected by someone other than DS? I certainly think we have been far too passive simply accepting that it was a bad deal for the club. Who actually said it was a bad deal? This could be the best chance we will ever have for own stadium and we are letting it disappear over the horizon because our new owners who hadn't even heard of Bristol Rovers until a couple of years ago have let it get away. So yeah, great post and I really sense the frustration and care you have for the club. I feel very much the same but I really don't feel there is any major appetite from the wider fanbase to make our voices heard and strive for any change at all
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 0:51:03 GMT
Were all just going around in circles on the subject of the owners. My take on things is that were not yet at the protest stage,in fact a protest would be an embarrassment and would not get any real support imo. There are so many doubts and issues that dont quite make sense but i think the owners should be given the chance to improve the football club without us fans making the job more difficult. We will get clues soon enough as to where were going like the january window and even the small scale work planned at the mem. Any protest right now would be against the best interests of the club in my view.
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Post by Gastroenteritis on Dec 13, 2017 0:52:41 GMT
What chance do we have to talk to our owner? And by that I don't mean Wael, I mean DS, or whoever is in charge of finance (that certainly isn't Wael judging by Hamer's interview). Didn't we have two representatives on the board? What are they up to? Mind you I bet they couldn't pick Hani out of an identity parade. So given the lack of any sort of plan from the top and the lack of any two way dialogue between supporters and DS so we get a clear view of what is affordable and what isn't we have reached an impasse. So in principle I agree that we need to encourage Dwane Sports to be more accountable. The problem is that I don't think people care about the financial side enough to turn out in numbers for any sort of peaceful demonstration. Many seem happy just to have a club to support. I am tired of seeing this club constantly be tinpot. The owners come and go but it is the same old tired tune being played. Most of all I would love clarity on the UWE- is there still the possibility of a deal? Can it be resurrected by someone other than DS? I certainly think we have been far too passive simply accepting that it was a bad deal for the club. Who actually said it was a bad deal? This could be the best chance we will ever have for own stadium and we are letting it disappear over the horizon because our new owners who hadn't even heard of Bristol Rovers until a couple of years ago have let it get away. So yeah, great post and I really sense the frustration and care you have for the club. I feel very much the same but I really don't feel there is any major appetite from the wider fanbase to make our voices heard and strive for any change at all I agree our board or holding company won’t communicte with us directly. Imagine banners being held up on say a televised match saying something along the lines of ‘Dwayne Sports, we need significant investment, or this club will die’ or ‘We need a stadium scheme’ etcI know will never die with its current support. Imagine this every home game, the powers that Be would surely have to respond. As for the UWE I did try to avoid talking about it, but you’re right I think clarification is needed as to wether there is still a chance for it to got ahead. I for one think it’s dead and UWE are doing their own thing. I also believe as fans we are not entitled to know every detail but at the very least we should be communicated the vision for the future by our current owners, something that is currently vague and is as clear as mud.
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Post by Gastroenteritis on Dec 13, 2017 0:59:41 GMT
Were all just going around in circles on the subject of the owners. My take on things is that were not yet at the protest stage,in fact a protest would be an embarrassment and would not get any real support imo. There are so many doubts and issues that dont quite make sense but i think the owners should be given the chance to improve the football club without us fans making the job more difficult. We will get clues soon enough as to where were going like the january window and even the small scale work planned at the mem. Any protest right now would be against the best interests of the club in my view. I respect your view but when I say protest I don’t mean ‘Al Quadis out’ just a communication of our frustrations and worries. Your right in the sense maybe give them more time, see where we are next year. I also feel that if there is no improvement of the field we should put pressure on our ownership. At the moment I like many others feel helpless. I also believe that a lot of the fanbase don’t see the bigger picture that I tried to convey in my OP.
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Post by Gastroenteritis on Dec 13, 2017 1:04:33 GMT
We as a fan base are the core of the club and the only significant revenue stream, we should hold any ownership accountable. Without us there is no club and we deserve more for the money we put in.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 1:42:47 GMT
Were all just going around in circles on the subject of the owners. My take on things is that were not yet at the protest stage,in fact a protest would be an embarrassment and would not get any real support imo. There are so many doubts and issues that dont quite make sense but i think the owners should be given the chance to improve the football club without us fans making the job more difficult. We will get clues soon enough as to where were going like the january window and even the small scale work planned at the mem. Any protest right now would be against the best interests of the club in my view. I respect your view but when I say protest I don’t mean ‘Al Quadis out’ just a communication of our frustrations and worries. Your right in the sense maybe give them more time, see where we are next year. I also feel that if there is no improvement of the field we should put pressure on our ownership. At the moment I like many others feel helpless. I also believe that a lot of the fanbase don’t see the bigger picture that I tried to convey in my OP. Hamer and wael have given interviews recently to try and explain where we are right now,its just that it wasnt really what we wanted to hear. So were left with the longer timescale progress theory somehow despite running at a loss,i just believe we have to wait and see what happens right now. Wael said hes in it for the long run didnt he? even hinting that he is even if the family are not. Most of my posts/threads have bordered on anti-owners since the uwe project collapse but i still believe in seeing what happens in the reasonably near future.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 5:57:50 GMT
We as a fan base are the core of the club and the only significant revenue stream, we should hold any ownership accountable. Without us there is no club and we deserve more for the money we put in. Do we? The money we put in is not enough to fund current expenditure. On what basis do we "deserve" more?
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Post by peterparker on Dec 13, 2017 6:09:30 GMT
When people want more or real investment what do you mean exactly?
Someone willing to spend lots of their own money without worrying about getting it back ever?
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Post by Severncider on Dec 13, 2017 6:16:44 GMT
As I have said many times before, football supporters are great at spending other peoples money.
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Post by philbemmygas on Dec 13, 2017 7:38:39 GMT
I’m currently working in Milton Keynes and staying in the Double Tree hotel, for those who don’t know it, it’s situated within the MK Dons football stadium. Every time I go back to my room after work a feeling of envy comes over me. It really is a fantastic stadium fit for the premiership, but it’s not just the stadium that makes me envious. Although I’m not sure about the business particulars with regards to who owns the ground and who gets the generated revenue, I can’t help but be in awe of the amount of revenue streams their are. I briefly counted at least 8 seperate premises incorporated within the stadium, these included but wasn’t limited to bars, gym, hotel, restaurants and conference spaces, and these were only on one side of the stadium. Just think of all the ground rents being generated as revenue for the club, it truly makes me wonder why MK dons are so sh1t. I’m envious of the car park and surrounding area which is home to a brand new eating and drinking area. The stadium is in my opinion truly brilliant yet modest, I would happily see the gas in this “souless bowl”. The words revenue streams and Bristol Rovers don’t mix, I mean what do we actually have? Match day tickets, club shop and hospitality, it’s no wonder we can’t pay players high salary’s or even the minimum wage. We need this type of setup to progress and that why the Mem will never be a viable option. This brings me to the other part of the thread title ‘crossroad’. For me Bristol rovers are at a crossraod, one way will either allow us to progress to a sustainable club, or the other to our eventual extinction. I say this because we are, as much as people hate to admit it massively effected by our friends across the river. I talk in terms of future potential generations of fans. At the moment we are tinpot...yes I said it, but we do offset that by only being one league behind, plus if we had plans to build a new stadium, regardless of our league position we would capture the hearts of Bristol’s youth by having the underdog appeal. If we were in the championship but still at the Mem we would match their level thus also attracting future fans. Even if they got promoted to the prem and we stayed in league 1 but still had the prospect of a new state of the art ground, we would still recruit support. The problem i fear is that they may well get promoted to the prem. This is a problem not because I’m jealous or hate them, it’s because it leaves us in a precarious position where we cannot attract the the fans of the future. Languishing in league one without two pennies to rub together will not appeal to the young, especially when another team In bristol plays agains the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United etc in a big stadium with good facilities. Yes we will always maintain our die hard gas fanbase but this in time will fade as the individuals on the terraces age and pass. Generations truly lost. I genuinely fear for our future. We need investment, new stadium, and most importantly new revenue streams just to even stay in the race let alone win it. I believe we need to start organising peacefull protests, nothing aggressive, hostile, nasty or offensive just a way of showing how we fear that without proper investment by any ownership that the club will die. We need to stress that evolution will be too little too late. I admit I don’t have the answers to our woes or have 100million to put in to the club. Some you will be just as happy to watch us in the conference, I respect your loyalty but I for one will not. Did not mean this to be too negative, just wanted to express the urgency of our situation and see If people had an appetite to mobilise the fan base in a peaceful manner and put pressure on our owners. We have been down the road of "peaceful protest before; all it tends to do is entrench the powers that be. One of the stadiums that our owners visited during planning for the Huey was Mcfranchise; having been there I admit it is a pretty good venue. Just a pity their fans are so blase' about the place; their support is poor to say the least. I am of the opinion "sit back and enjoy (moan about) the ride"; history proves that protesting is unlikely to change things. F*ck me for my £380 plus matchday spend I am sure I am funding sh*t loads of stuff. Not attacking you fellow, just trying to provide further emphasis on the anti-protest commentry. - UTG
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 13, 2017 8:14:22 GMT
I’m currently working in Milton Keynes and staying in the Double Tree hotel, for those who don’t know it, it’s situated within the MK Dons football stadium. Every time I go back to my room after work a feeling of envy comes over me. It really is a fantastic stadium fit for the premiership, but it’s not just the stadium that makes me envious. Although I’m not sure about the business particulars with regards to who owns the ground and who gets the generated revenue, I can’t help but be in awe of the amount of revenue streams their are. I briefly counted at least 8 seperate premises incorporated within the stadium, these included but wasn’t limited to bars, gym, hotel, restaurants and conference spaces, and these were only on one side of the stadium. Just think of all the ground rents being generated as revenue for the club, it truly makes me wonder why MK dons are so sh1t. I’m envious of the car park and surrounding area which is home to a brand new eating and drinking area. The stadium is in my opinion truly brilliant yet modest, I would happily see the gas in this “souless bowl”. The words revenue streams and Bristol Rovers don’t mix, I mean what do we actually have? Match day tickets, club shop and hospitality, it’s no wonder we can’t pay players high salary’s or even the minimum wage. We need this type of setup to progress and that why the Mem will never be a viable option. This brings me to the other part of the thread title ‘crossroad’. For me Bristol rovers are at a crossraod, one way will either allow us to progress to a sustainable club, or the other to our eventual extinction. I say this because we are, as much as people hate to admit it massively effected by our friends across the river. I talk in terms of future potential generations of fans. At the moment we are tinpot...yes I said it, but we do offset that by only being one league behind, plus if we had plans to build a new stadium, regardless of our league position we would capture the hearts of Bristol’s youth by having the underdog appeal. If we were in the championship but still at the Mem we would match their level thus also attracting future fans. Even if they got promoted to the prem and we stayed in league 1 but still had the prospect of a new state of the art ground, we would still recruit support. The problem i fear is that they may well get promoted to the prem. This is a problem not because I’m jealous or hate them, it’s because it leaves us in a precarious position where we cannot attract the the fans of the future. Languishing in league one without two pennies to rub together will not appeal to the young, especially when another team In bristol plays agains the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United etc in a big stadium with good facilities. Yes we will always maintain our die hard gas fanbase but this in time will fade as the individuals on the terraces age and pass. Generations truly lost. I genuinely fear for our future. We need investment, new stadium, and most importantly new revenue streams just to even stay in the race let alone win it. I believe we need to start organising peacefull protests, nothing aggressive, hostile, nasty or offensive just a way of showing how we fear that without proper investment by any ownership that the club will die. We need to stress that evolution will be too little too late. I admit I don’t have the answers to our woes or have 100million to put in to the club. Some you will be just as happy to watch us in the conference, I respect your loyalty but I for one will not. Did not mean this to be too negative, just wanted to express the urgency of our situation and see If people had an appetite to mobilise the fan base in a peaceful manner and put pressure on our owners. To be fair, you could have said all this at any time over the last 30 odd years. The only thing that has changed is City are close to the Prem. So, what will you actually be protesting? City near the Prem? Bit of an odd protest.
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Post by blueridge on Dec 13, 2017 8:45:39 GMT
When people want more or real investment what do you mean exactly? Someone willing to spend lots of their own money without worrying about getting it back ever? And you can envisage the ALQ's getting something (anything) back from our club without spending "lots of their own money" to start with, to at least give themselves a chance. I am genuinely struggling to understand why they are still with us. I'm a firm believer in the old saying "you reap what you sow" - which sadly is beginning to be seen not too far away.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 13, 2017 8:56:50 GMT
We as a fan base are the core of the club and the only significant revenue stream, we should hold any ownership accountable. Without us there is no club and we deserve more for the money we put in. Whatever we put in as fans, we get out over £1.5M quid more than that. We really deserve to have someone blow about £2M per year on our hobby?
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Post by gasant on Dec 13, 2017 10:00:30 GMT
Evolution not revolution. If we are going to be sustainable then we need an initial outlay to do this.
To generate a sustainable future then we need to have a good return on our investments. If i was a new owner of a football club i would want to maximise this asap. Which isn't what we are seeing currently IMO. With minimal/no investment into these commercial streams of income then there will be no increase in wages or transfers to support the football team.
A new carpet/hand dryers/bogs is not going to sell more beer or generate a higher attendance. I think the owners have massively underestimated the actual investment needed to be self-sufficient to enable the club to keep our best players and progress through the leagues.
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Post by knowall on Dec 13, 2017 10:22:04 GMT
It is totally wrong to compare MK Dons with our situation unless you want Rovers to move several hundred miles away from Bristol. The whole project surrounding MK Dons stadium cost a fortune and was put together by a record producer Pete Winkelman in association with Adsa and Ikea. The stadium is fantastic but survives because of the retail aspect - which is exactly where the UWE deal falls short apparently. MK Dons still have yet to fill the capacity but it is ready for Premiership football if they can get a team worthy of the step up. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium_mk#Milton_Keynes_Stadium_Consortium
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Post by tommym9 on Dec 13, 2017 10:31:26 GMT
I'd rather be in the heart of North Bristol than on the outskirts on a retail estate like MK to be honest.
We've been in worse states without any protests so I can't see one happening now I'm afraid.
Sorry to rain on your parade.
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