|
|
Post by swissgas on Dec 31, 2017 20:30:22 GMT
At the present time spending cash on a training ground would be well down on my list of priorities but, in the midst of all the confusion coming from the club, a consistent message we hear from Steve Hamer and Wael is that “the training ground will go ahead”. So rather than criticise or harp on about this decision I think it makes sense to encourage them to make the project a success.
The current planning permission is for a 4000 sq ft club house with eight changing rooms, a tiny office, a lounge bar, a kitchen, six rugby pitches, two training pitches, parking for 214 cars and 8 coaches. It’s perfect for an amateur rugby club but not at all suitable for a professional football club which is why there has been muffled talk about project managers and a new planning application. Wael implied he wanted to obtain permission for a full size complex, perhaps similar to Fleetwood’s, and then
build it stage by stage but I wonder whether he has thought this through ? Such an approach appeals to many fans who are eager for something good to finally happen at Rovers but from a business perspective why waste time with a complicated planning application and risk missing the projected July 1st 2019 opening date ? And why spend extra cash on plans for a huge development which cannot be financed in the foreseeable future and which will only raise expectations unnecessarily? Wouldn’t it be better to come up with something realistic which meets our current needs and to do it extremely well ?
I was once given the advice that when you have a difficult business situation and are fighting on many fronts there is a danger of spreading your resources too thinly and by doing so finding that you are actually failing everywhere.If you are able to manage it there is a big advantage to be gained by giving special attention to one area and concentrating on creating excellence there. In this way you demonstrate to all stakeholders that you are capable of achieving success and inspire them to keep supporting you. Once you have achieved that success it provides something tangible to build on and the business is able to progress (or evolve) from a culture of mediocrity to a culture of excellence.
The training ground project would give Wael and Steve the opportunity to put this theory into practise and make a fresh start in 2018. We can’t go back to the attitude of the old regime which was “we’ll tell you what you need to know when we’re good and ready”. This is a chance to build a completely new culture at Rovers where fans are involved in the development at every stage and can follow it through from initial planning to final completion in 2019. But please please please use a professional PR company to manage the publicity process so that in taking a first step towards bringing our facilities up to date we also start to project a professional 21st century image for the club.
|
|
|
|
Post by gregsy on Dec 31, 2017 20:42:12 GMT
My take on the training ground/stadium situation is that we need to find ways of saving/generating the suspected 2m annual loss, with decent if not magnificent facilities, that's the first big hurdle....
whatever they choose to do in the short term it has to be a footprint for future development otherwise spending is pointless....
|
|
|
|
Post by socrates on Dec 31, 2017 21:46:13 GMT
I’m not a board basher but I am worried that Hamer said in his radio Bristol interview that we would be moving in to our new training ground in July 2018 yet when Geoff asked Wael two weeks later before the Fleetwood ( I think ) game he said that plans were still being drawn up and different options were still being explored.
Well I’m in construction and I know full well that if plans are still being drawn and options are still open then there’s no way in this world anyone can be sure of a completion date.
When I heard that my reaction was who’s bullshitng one of them is or both are.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2017 22:45:32 GMT
When hamer came up with the date for the training ground opening it sounded a bit like any old date he could think of quite far in the future it seemed to me.
I would be happy if the club decided on a strategy of concentrating on improving the academy and having a strong development squad which would include a good quality training facility.
IT would make sense to me for the club to turn its back on paying transfer fees and concentrate on building a reputation for bringing young players through the ranks.
|
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 31, 2017 23:22:46 GMT
Happy New Year, Swiss.
Personally I would class the training ground as important for the club as the stadium. The reason is that it is where the players spend most of their time, it gives greater opportunity for players from the various squads to work together as one under central management supervision with its inherent benefits of giving players a real chance to shine and breakthriugh to the senior squad.
Most importantly, though, for us as fans it does provide something tangible that we are moving in the right direction. In the grand scheme of things it is relatively cheap and quick (compared to a new stadium plan and development process) and would give us a good morale boost.
With regards to plans, if what we have been told is genuine, pre planning has been agreed and plans being adjusted to take that (and presumably the adjusted budget for Phase1) into account. I am not sure revisiting it again would save much in terms of time or cost as much of this would already have been factored in or soent.
As disappinting as it was to learm of the phased approach, I can see the merits in it provided the initial build allows bits to be added without too much interference. We could proceed with Phase 1 and then apply for later phases inbuild to start things off, if that is the plan. Perhaps the phased approach is their version of what you have suggested.
|
|
|
|
Post by bradfordmeyerbiggs on Dec 31, 2017 23:28:32 GMT
The training ground is going ahead. There is just a lot to discuss at the moment with the project management team.
|
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 31, 2017 23:29:47 GMT
I’m not a board basher but I am worried that Hamer said in his radio Bristol interview that we would be moving in to our new training ground in July 2018 yet when Geoff asked Wael two weeks later before the Fleetwood ( I think ) game he said that plans were still being drawn up and different options were still being explored. Well I’m in construction and I know full well that if plans are still being drawn and options are still open then there’s no way in this world anyone can be sure of a completion date. When I heard that my reaction was who’s bullshitng one of them is or both are. When the land was first bought, I recall an interview with GT where it was suggested we could move in July. GT took that to be 2017 which was not refuted. It then became 2018 and now July 2019. Whether this is now genuine I don't know but could be a planned date (it ties up with preseason training for the season after next so would be a realistic aspiration) with sufficient wriggle room. Would we have to move in at the start of a season though? Unlike a stadium with FA rules, could we move mid season if the deadline was missed by a month or more? |
|
|
|
Post by garystash on Dec 31, 2017 23:31:14 GMT
Recent interviews suggest there isn't much going on with regard to "regenerating the Mem".
Maybe Dwane Sports are following the model the OP is suggesting by concentrating resources on The Colony?
|
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Dec 31, 2017 23:34:27 GMT
The training ground is going ahead. There is just a lot to discuss at the moment with the project management team. So a bit like the new stadium then that was going ahead once we agreed a deal with the UWE and we all know how that turned out! |
|
|
|
Post by swissgas on Jan 1, 2018 0:41:58 GMT
Happy New Year, Swiss. Personally I would class the training ground as important for the club as the stadium. The reason is that it is where the players spend most of their time, it gives greater opportunity for players from the various squads to work together as one under central management supervision with its inherent benefits of giving players a real chance to shine and breakthriugh to the senior squad. Most importantly, though, for us as fans it does provide something tangible that we are moving in the right direction. In the grand scheme of things it is relatively cheap and quick (compared to a new stadium plan and development process) and would give us a good morale boost.With regards to plans, if what we have been told is genuine, pre planning has been agreed and plans being adjusted to take that (and presumably the adjusted budget for Phase1) into account. I am not sure revisiting it again would save much in terms of time or cost as much of this would already have been factored in or soent. As disappinting as it was to learm of the phased approach, I can see the merits in it provided the initial build allows bits to be added without too much interference. We could proceed with Phase 1 and then apply for later phases inbuild to start things off, if that is the plan. Perhaps the phased approach is their version of what you have suggested. Stuart, Happy New Year to you and to all Gasheads. I've highlighted your second paragraph which I agree with 100% and I do think Wael needs to take on board the importance of a tangible morale booster to us, DC and to everyone connected to Rovers. If it was up to me the training ground would be put on hold and some of that cash would go into the playing budget but the decision has been made and so I think we now need to encourage them to make the most of what can be built within the budget they have set. But I am concerned about what you say about pre-planning having been agreed and the project taking place in phases because no actual application has been submitted so far and I think we could be in danger of experiencing another case of delay and "this will take time". The existing planning permission is not adequate for a professional football club and so changes will have to be made but not radical changes. Currently about about 1/3 of the building is taken up by a lounge bar yet there is no space for a gymnasium, medical treatment facilities or administration. There are eight changing rooms which you might expect for a rugby club with four games (120 players) happening simultaneously but are of little use to a group of about 50 footballers between the first team and development squad. So to alter the design to incorporate the facilities we need would probably gain the approval of the planners fairly easily. But to try to put together an application for a much bigger, vastly different, and hugely expensive scheme would be more likely to bring about substantial resistance and consequent delays. My view is that we should go with an application for what we need and can afford now, and in the time frame we have been given, which will show that Wael and Steve mean what they say and will give the whole club a big boost to morale. |
|
|
|
Post by paulpirate on Jan 1, 2018 1:01:59 GMT
Not another thread on the same old subject 💩
|
|
|
|
Post by gregsy on Jan 1, 2018 1:55:59 GMT
Not another thread on the same old subject 💩 To be fair most subjects get repeated over time, but as recent conversations on this subject are now dwindling on page 5 (or even further back) I think it's fair enough to brighten up the subject a bit.... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 2:31:16 GMT
The training ground is going ahead. There is just a lot to discuss at the moment with the project management team. How do you know that? Or is a secret? |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Jan 1, 2018 8:26:18 GMT
Thanks Swiss,
I completely agree with you about the existing plans. When the additional permissions were granted prior to acquisition, I had a look and my first thought was that this is not very ambitious. It reminded me of my work's sports facilities (oddly enough, where we train now). When the announcement that things were being planned instead i was reassured although disappointed plans were not already in place and we were starting from scratch.
Pre planning as far as I understand it, is informal discussions prior to the formal application. The idea being that likely pitfalls are brought to light early and allows for the application to be accepted first time rather than repeated processes.
On completely different scales, although perhaps the principle is similar, we needed to make adaptions to our house years ago. We had an informal discussion with the relevant parties at the council and plans drawn up . It was processed first time. Had we just applied, it would have been rejected on a small technicality resulting in us doing everything again and wasting time.
Where I do disagree is that the budget would move across to the playing side if we put the training ground on hold. My interpretation of their business plan is that the Colony is separate and the money being released purely for infrastructure build.
Time will tell, though, as to whether this is genuine or playing for time. So far, I think it is the former.
|
|
|
|
Post by knowall on Jan 1, 2018 9:48:15 GMT
The over arching consideration in placing importance on the training facility is how important it is in the mindset of one of our most valuable assets - DC
and for that matter anyone who would take his place should he leave us.
A nice comfortable stadium is great for us who turn up once a fortnight but how about those who turn up six times a week?
|
|
|
|
Post by blueridge on Jan 1, 2018 9:53:19 GMT
Let's assume there's going to be a phased approach with Phase 1 up and running by July 2019 with an initial spend of circa £2m. Where is the revenue coming from post 2019 to pay for the rest of the development whilst the club is operating at a significant loss each year? If we don't have the money now we almost certainly won't have the money then.
It seems to me the family do not want to commit to any significant spend which will take the overall debt over the value of their only asset.
|
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Jan 1, 2018 10:01:49 GMT
The over arching consideration in placing importance on the training facility is how important it is in the mindset of one of our most valuable assets - DC and for that matter anyone who would take his place should he leave us. A nice comfortable stadium is great for us who turn up once a fortnight but how about those who turn up six times a week? Surely a stadium being great for us is the whole reason to build a new stadium, as it will then mean we get more fans though the turnstiles on a regular basis spending more money in the bars etc. Apart from keeping DC etc happy a new training facility won't actually generate any additional income for the club. Spending millions at The Colony or on a new grandstand is a no-brainer for me. |
|
|
|
Post by peterparker on Jan 1, 2018 10:18:19 GMT
Let's assume there's going to be a phased approach with Phase 1 up and running by July 2019 with an initial spend of circa £2m. Where is the revenue coming from post 2019 to pay for the rest of the development whilst the club is operating at a significant loss each year? If we don't have the money now we almost certainly won't have the money then. It seems to me the family do not want to commit to any significant spend which will take the overall debt over the value of their only asset. Scrap it now then. why spend 2m or whatever at all if they dont need/want to for no apparent benefit |
|
|
|
Post by Squiffy on Jan 1, 2018 10:24:59 GMT
The truth is that both the stadium and the training ground are equally important and have a symbiotic relationship where each feeds off the success of the other. However, personally I think we should focus on getting the training ground up and running, as Swissgas suggests, as it’s the lowest capital outlay of the two and can have an immediate impact on the wellbeing of the staff. It’s payback period isn’t tangible but improved working conditions has to be a marketable asset for attracting new players and developing saleable talent, and is a viewpoint that the AQs are probably more in tune with.
The stadium issue is far more complex in terms of scale and stakeholders so if I were them I would get the easier project underway and start to rebuild a more positive media profile.
|
|
|
|
Post by gas2 on Jan 1, 2018 12:13:23 GMT
This was posted on face book over the weekend
Does anybody have any insight on a company Filton avenue developments limited? was browsing companies house and this one is one of several companies that waq is a director of. this one on the 22nd December last year Bristol ro vers 1883 limited became the person with significant control
|
|
