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Post by xplosivgas on Jul 30, 2018 11:40:24 GMT
Whining? What is whining? What is protest? Is one where you don’t agree with the sentiment and the other when you do? Are people whining about lack of gun control in the US? Are people whining about BREXIT? Anyway in answer to your question of course in football supporters can invoke change of ownership or change of attitude or change of style from the people that run their clubs but staying silent and accepting everything like sea lions clapping for their dinner during show time at Sea World will never change anything. In football people confuse criticism and asking questions of owners/ managers/ players/ club officials as not being true fans, as being moaners, as being whiners even! When in actual fact it is sensible and desirable that supporters just like shareholders of a business hold the people that are in charge to account. Keep them on their toes so they know that they cannot ride roughshod or disrespect the institution that they are mere custodians of, and to let them know that they will be held to account if they act selfishly by the shareholders or emotional shareholders as is the case of fans of a football club. There are plenty of instances of fans who are unhappy with the way that their clubs are run are invoking change. Charlton Athletic fans have been pretty united in seeing the back of their current owner and are on the brink of getting change www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/charlton-athletic-roland-duchatelet-league-one-plymouth-argyle-a8272456.html. Similar fan pressure has invoked or contributed towards change at Aston Villa and Sunderland in recent months and will hopefully yield the same at Blackpool too. The ALQs might not be as bad as some of those owners but they get an extraordinary easy ride from our fans considering they seem totally incapable or unwilling to make any progress on the two major things they promised to make a difference on when they took over. A decent stadium and new training ground. We are one year on now from them pulling out of the best chance we have ever had to have a fantastic new stadium and said they would redevelop the Mem instead and all we will have is a few hastily erected tents and no communication about anything. Yet we still have fans saying “keep the faith” and jumping down the throats of those who dare to question the ALQs. So yes those people do deserve the ALQs, their lack of communication and whatever plans selfish or otherwise they have for our beloved football club. Because it takes longer than a year, to plan a new stadium. Do you think we are bringing in a new CEO to do nothing?? One that has experience of planning facilities etc. Plus improving our back room staff, they must have a long term plan, however, confidentiality normal stops them from talking about it. Most clubs announce it, with pictures of the drawn up plans etc. Most fans realise a year is not long enough and if nothing has happened by this time next year. More questions will be asked. If I had to place a wager on what's more likely in 12 months time: CEO resigns or grand plans announced for new stadium / major revamp - I know where my money would go. This may be viewed as a negative outlook, but it's just based on owner activities (or lack therefore) and conduct to-date.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jul 30, 2018 11:45:12 GMT
Because it takes longer than a year, to plan a new stadium. Do you think we are bringing in a new CEO to do nothing?? One that has experience of planning facilities etc. Plus improving our back room staff, they must have a long term plan, however, confidentiality normal stops them from talking about it. Most clubs announce it, with pictures of the drawn up plans etc. Most fans realise a year is not long enough and if nothing has happened by this time next year. More questions will be asked. If I had to place a wager on what's more likely in 12 months time: CEO resigns or grand plans announced for new stadium / major revamp - I know where my money would go. This may be viewed as a negative outlook, but it's just based on owner activities (or lack therefore) and conduct to-date. These are business people. Would they waist money on a development squad, CEO, head of recruitment etc. If they did not have a long term plan, to pay for it?? Wael even stepped down from the Jordanian fa,to concentrate more on us. Don't think they would continue to improve the back room team, increasing costs, unless they were in it for the long run? Unless you can think of another reason for them to do it? Have not seen anyone come up with a reason yet. Just moan, about what they wouldn't be allowed to us anyway. But if they really have no long term plans, why continue to increase costs and improve us? ?
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Post by Charlton Hayes Gas on Jul 30, 2018 12:11:43 GMT
If I had to place a wager on what's more likely in 12 months time: CEO resigns or grand plans announced for new stadium / major revamp - I know where my money would go. This may be viewed as a negative outlook, but it's just based on owner activities (or lack therefore) and conduct to-date. These are business people. Would they waist money on a development squad, CEO, head of recruitment etc. If they did not have a long term plan, to pay for it?? Wael even stepped down from the Jordanian fa,to concentrate more on us. Don't think they would continue to improve the back room team, increasing costs, unless they were in it for the long run? Unless you can think of another reason for them to do it? Have not seen anyone come up with a reason yet. Just moan, about what they wouldn't be allowed to us anyway. But if they really have no long term plans, why continue to increase costs and improve us? ?
Because where is the fun in looking at the bigger picture and not going into meltdown over the tiniest of issues?!?
Bring back the old owners I say! Yeah, getting relegated out of the football league wasn't ideal, but at least higgsy was telling all his mates what was going on so we could discuss It on here..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 12:15:29 GMT
From the blackthorn end i kept looking at the pitch and thinking it was slightly shorter. But it might look longer from the other end of the ground which would make it the same size. I said the same thing Saturday the pitch is definitely shorter this year it's further away from thatchers end than normal. But what if you were at the other end and the pitch looked closer? it would still be the same length.
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Post by barumgas on Jul 30, 2018 12:18:56 GMT
Have you not looked at the "stand cam" on the website? Scaffolding and plastic chairs moving on a daily basis. UTG! Here's Stand Cam live: What no cushions!
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Post by barumgas on Jul 30, 2018 12:21:33 GMT
If I had to place a wager on what's more likely in 12 months time: CEO resigns or grand plans announced for new stadium / major revamp - I know where my money would go. This may be viewed as a negative outlook, but it's just based on owner activities (or lack therefore) and conduct to-date. These are business people. Would they waist money on a development squad, CEO, head of recruitment etc. If they did not have a long term plan, to pay for it?? Wael even stepped down from the Jordanian fa,to concentrate more on us. Don't think they would continue to improve the back room team, increasing costs, unless they were in it for the long run? Unless you can think of another reason for them to do it? Have not seen anyone come up with a reason yet. Just moan, about what they wouldn't be allowed to us anyway. But if they really have no long term plans, why continue to increase costs and improve us? ? I agree completely. Good post
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Post by xplosivgas on Jul 30, 2018 12:27:02 GMT
If I had to place a wager on what's more likely in 12 months time: CEO resigns or grand plans announced for new stadium / major revamp - I know where my money would go. This may be viewed as a negative outlook, but it's just based on owner activities (or lack therefore) and conduct to-date. These are business people. Would they waist money on a development squad, CEO, head of recruitment etc. If they did not have a long term plan, to pay for it?? Wael even stepped down from the Jordanian fa,to concentrate more on us. Don't think they would continue to improve the back room team, increasing costs, unless they were in it for the long run? Unless you can think of another reason for them to do it? Have not seen anyone come up with a reason yet. Just moan, about what they wouldn't be allowed to us anyway. But if they really have no long term plans, why continue to increase costs and improve us? ? What you say makes total sense and is entirely logical. It's just that so many decisions so far have seemed to defy logic (to me). Hopefully the master-plan will come together in the near future and we'll all be like "ahhhh...so THAT'S what you were up to all along!"
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Post by simon1883 on Jul 30, 2018 12:28:55 GMT
These are business people. Would they waist money on a development squad, CEO, head of recruitment etc. If they did not have a long term plan, to pay for it?? Wael even stepped down from the Jordanian fa,to concentrate more on us. Don't think they would continue to improve the back room team, increasing costs, unless they were in it for the long run? Unless you can think of another reason for them to do it? Have not seen anyone come up with a reason yet. Just moan, about what they wouldn't be allowed to us anyway. But if they really have no long term plans, why continue to increase costs and improve us? ? I agree completely. Good post I still think they way this lot conduct business is totally confidential until something is there to be announced. We have NO idea where they are with ANY of the projects that they are working on. They run thier business that way and because the BoD doesnt leak like a sieve we won't know anything until such a point that they have somethiing to annouce.
I don't quite know what to think about it all. I want to know something is happening and things are moving in the right direction but I guess I have to trust the BoD to deliver to thier word.....
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Post by daniel300380 on Jul 30, 2018 12:37:41 GMT
I agree completely. Good post I still think they way this lot conduct business is totally confidential until something is there to be announced. We have NO idea where they are with ANY of the projects that they are working on. They run thier business that way and because the BoD doesnt leak like a sieve we won't know anything until such a point that they have somethiing to annouce.
I don't quite know what to think about it all. I want to know something is happening and things are moving in the right direction but I guess I have to trust the BoD to deliver to thier word.....
[br Agree. Although the last board planned Uwe in secret for years, with Uwe and Sainsbury's as well. Most clubs have to do it that way, if not all. Just hope any planning, does not involve Sainsbury's this time!!
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Jul 30, 2018 14:39:51 GMT
Don't you think it might be snidely superior to suggest that those who don't criticise the board as much as you are actually responsible for the club underperforming? Are you really suggesting that those who don't whine deserve a sh** club but those who whine don't deserve it? Do you really think that if we all whined in unison to a similar level of whininess that the club would become better? Is that how you think clubs improve? Whining? What is whining? What is protest? Is one where you don’t agree with the sentiment and the other when you do? Are people whining about lack of gun control in the US? Are people whining about BREXIT? Anyway in answer to your question of course in football supporters can invoke change of ownership or change of attitude or change of style from the people that run their clubs but staying silent and accepting everything like sea lions clapping for their dinner during show time at Sea World will never change anything. In football people confuse criticism and asking questions of owners/ managers/ players/ club officials as not being true fans, as being moaners, as being whiners even! When in actual fact it is sensible and desirable that supporters just like shareholders of a business hold the people that are in charge to account. Keep them on their toes so they know that they cannot ride roughshod or disrespect the institution that they are mere custodians of, and to let them know that they will be held to account if they act selfishly by the shareholders or emotional shareholders as is the case of fans of a football club. There are plenty of instances of fans who are unhappy with the way that their clubs are run are invoking change. Charlton Athletic fans have been pretty united in seeing the back of their current owner and are on the brink of getting change www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/charlton-athletic-roland-duchatelet-league-one-plymouth-argyle-a8272456.html. Similar fan pressure has invoked or contributed towards change at Aston Villa and Sunderland in recent months and will hopefully yield the same at Blackpool too. The ALQs might not be as bad as some of those owners but they get an extraordinary easy ride from our fans considering they seem totally incapable or unwilling to make any progress on the two major things they promised to make a difference on when they took over. A decent stadium and new training ground. We are one year on now from them pulling out of the best chance we have ever had to have a fantastic new stadium and said they would redevelop the Mem instead and all we will have is a few hastily erected tents and no communication about anything. Yet we still have fans saying “keep the faith” and jumping down the throats of those who dare to question the ALQs. So yes those people do deserve the ALQs, their lack of communication and whatever plans selfish or otherwise they have for our beloved football club. The problem is you are making the assumption that your opinion is objectively the best one for the club and that those that disagree with you are wrong. And then you make this weird jump of logic to blame them for what you don't like about the club. Of course there's nothing wrong with protest and there's nothing wrong with debate. But know that protest is not morally correct in and of itself. You can protest a position that may or may not be correct (probably just a matter of opinion, though) but that's not the same thing. If you manage to make your views known to the AQs or whoever's in power, then fair play to you. But I'm pretty comfortable with the description of just posting it on the internet as whining. Of course fans can instigate change for the better, they can also instigate change for the worse, again it's a matter of opinion and doesn't hold moral value without context. Again, your 'best chance we ever had...' is just an opinion. The AQs have put forward the idea that they didn't think it was in our best interests. This might be a matter of opinion, but otherwise, your opinion is that they are lying to us. Again, if you want to protest and make a regime change, you might be correct and you might be successful, you might save us all from their evil lies. I don't think that those taken in by the AQs (if indeed they have been taken in) are necessarily to blame for the state of the club. They have reached an opinion based on what (little) we do know. But I would imagine they think the club has advanced more in the last few years than it has over the previous decade or so. I imagine they have seen signs of improvement. Just because we haven't got everything we wanted over a relatively short period of time, doesn't necessarily mean we will be better off under some imaginary regime that you're imagining replacing them when you protest them away. I would suggest that those who 'know' we are being taken for a ride but doing nothing about it are actually more culpable, because of course, they know the truth, and yet do nothing about it. So what have you been doing to raise yourself above the happy clapper seal fan? What have you done to protest and place yourself morally above the rest of us? What have you done to initiate regime change for the better, and again if your answer is that you post on the internet, I am quite comfortable thinking of that as whining and not the sort of brave morally superior protest that you seem to think it is. And I didn't see your protests when we were relegated to the conf. I didn't see your protests when we were being relegated from League 1. I didn't see your protests when our plans for a stadium went wrong in 2008. I didn't see your protests when we were getting f**ked over by Sainsburys, costing us millions. Maybe you were doing it on the other side of the car park. But, if you weren't protesting, by your own logic (sh** logic, admittedly), these were all your fault.
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Post by hometobarnsley on Jul 30, 2018 16:45:41 GMT
You made a comment that I felt was irrelevant, it has already been noted on this thread that the stands will be installed over the next couple of weeks (which makes it prior to our first HOME game), how does that make me a happy clapper, and frankly better that than a doom merchant who thinks that one pre season friendly somehow enables us to predict the whole season. You do like to go off on tangents and make up sh** don’t you. First it’s feeling better sitting in an empty stand now it’s that I think yesterday predicts the season we are going to have! If I was a doom merchant I wouldn’t have wasted my Saturday even going along with all of the other 1,796 doom merchants would I? I wouldn’t be spunking hundred quid on a day out to Peterborough next week would I, or £400 on a non existent season ticket? Not for the first time you mention your non existent season ticket. As I understand it, nobody has received one yet (being sent out this week I believe). I wasn't planning on using mine before 11th August, so no need to have it just yet. Could I politely ask what you intended to do with yours before that date to cause you so much grief?
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Post by barumgas on Jul 30, 2018 18:29:45 GMT
I still think they way this lot conduct business is totally confidential until something is there to be announced. We have NO idea where they are with ANY of the projects that they are working on. They run thier business that way and because the BoD doesnt leak like a sieve we won't know anything until such a point that they have somethiing to annouce.
I don't quite know what to think about it all. I want to know something is happening and things are moving in the right direction but I guess I have to trust the BoD to deliver to thier word.....
[br Agree. Although the last board planned Uwe in secret for years, with Uwe and Sainsbury's as well. Most clubs have to do it that way, if not all. Just hope any planning, does not involve Sainsbury's this time!! Could be Poundland
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jul 30, 2018 18:48:10 GMT
Whining? What is whining? What is protest? Is one where you don’t agree with the sentiment and the other when you do? Are people whining about lack of gun control in the US? Are people whining about BREXIT? Anyway in answer to your question of course in football supporters can invoke change of ownership or change of attitude or change of style from the people that run their clubs but staying silent and accepting everything like sea lions clapping for their dinner during show time at Sea World will never change anything. In football people confuse criticism and asking questions of owners/ managers/ players/ club officials as not being true fans, as being moaners, as being whiners even! When in actual fact it is sensible and desirable that supporters just like shareholders of a business hold the people that are in charge to account. Keep them on their toes so they know that they cannot ride roughshod or disrespect the institution that they are mere custodians of, and to let them know that they will be held to account if they act selfishly by the shareholders or emotional shareholders as is the case of fans of a football club. There are plenty of instances of fans who are unhappy with the way that their clubs are run are invoking change. Charlton Athletic fans have been pretty united in seeing the back of their current owner and are on the brink of getting change www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/charlton-athletic-roland-duchatelet-league-one-plymouth-argyle-a8272456.html. Similar fan pressure has invoked or contributed towards change at Aston Villa and Sunderland in recent months and will hopefully yield the same at Blackpool too. The ALQs might not be as bad as some of those owners but they get an extraordinary easy ride from our fans considering they seem totally incapable or unwilling to make any progress on the two major things they promised to make a difference on when they took over. A decent stadium and new training ground. We are one year on now from them pulling out of the best chance we have ever had to have a fantastic new stadium and said they would redevelop the Mem instead and all we will have is a few hastily erected tents and no communication about anything. Yet we still have fans saying “keep the faith” and jumping down the throats of those who dare to question the ALQs. So yes those people do deserve the ALQs, their lack of communication and whatever plans selfish or otherwise they have for our beloved football club. The problem is you are making the assumption that your opinion is objectively the best one for the club and that those that disagree with you are wrong. And then you make this weird jump of logic to blame them for what you don't like about the club. Of course there's nothing wrong with protest and there's nothing wrong with debate. But know that protest is not morally correct in and of itself. You can protest a position that may or may not be correct (probably just a matter of opinion, though) but that's not the same thing. If you manage to make your views known to the AQs or whoever's in power, then fair play to you. But I'm pretty comfortable with the description of just posting it on the internet as whining. Of course fans can instigate change for the better, they can also instigate change for the worse, again it's a matter of opinion and doesn't hold moral value without context. Again, your 'best chance we ever had...' is just an opinion. The AQs have put forward the idea that they didn't think it was in our best interests. This might be a matter of opinion, but otherwise, your opinion is that they are lying to us. Again, if you want to protest and make a regime change, you might be correct and you might be successful, you might save us all from their evil lies. I don't think that those taken in by the AQs (if indeed they have been taken in) are necessarily to blame for the state of the club. They have reached an opinion based on what (little) we do know. But I would imagine they think the club has advanced more in the last few years than it has over the previous decade or so. I imagine they have seen signs of improvement. Just because we haven't got everything we wanted over a relatively short period of time, doesn't necessarily mean we will be better off under some imaginary regime that you're imagining replacing them when you protest them away. I would suggest that those who 'know' we are being taken for a ride but doing nothing about it are actually more culpable, because of course, they know the truth, and yet do nothing about it. So what have you been doing to raise yourself above the happy clapper seal fan? What have you done to protest and place yourself morally above the rest of us? What have you done to initiate regime change for the better, and again if your answer is that you post on the internet, I am quite comfortable thinking of that as whining and not the sort of brave morally superior protest that you seem to think it is. And I didn't see your protests when we were relegated to the conf. I didn't see your protests when we were being relegated from League 1. I didn't see your protests when our plans for a stadium went wrong in 2008. I didn't see your protests when we were getting f**ked over by Sainsburys, costing us millions. Maybe you were doing it on the other side of the car park. But, if you weren't protesting, by your own logic (sh** logic, admittedly), these were all your fault. A well thought out reply and yes of course all of us have a belief system that impacts on what we say and what we think. You are correct that my belief system is that I don’t automatically believe everything that I’m told by the people who own our football club. Not the current owners and not those that came before them. Sure I want to but experience shows we are fools to do so. There were plenty calling for everyone to keep the faith with Higgs and Co whilst they were behind the scenes mortgaging the club to the hilt with Wonga chasing a lost cause of a court case and jeopardising our very existence. Contrary to your insinuation of warped logic my problem isn’t so much with those that sit back and do and say nothing (except of course those that you say might be in the know that we are being taken for a ride and say nothing) it’s those that shout down those that do ask questions and that do want to hold the custodians to account and bring pressure to bear so that they don’t think they can treat the club and long standing supporters with impunity. I accept that posting concerns on an Internet forum isn’t necessarily the strongest way to hold them to account but the internet as we and the Russians all know can and does inform and influence opinion and actions. In any case what is the point of this particular forum if we can’t debate things going on at Bristol Rovers football club. We might agree or disagree with each other but mainly we want the same outcomes. I’m not blameless when it comes to giving stick to people on here but I’d like to think it’s only as a result of giving it back to people who invent stuff people say or jump on them because they ask questions of the owners. My involvement in this thread started only by making observations on the ground and the pitch and that seemed to set some of sycophantic persuasion (their belief system) right off.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Jul 30, 2018 18:51:13 GMT
Sure, I agree with most of that. I just think that responding to people who shout you down by shouting them back down (or blaming them) isn't getting anyone anywhere.
And, yeah, I did back Higgs all the way, and look where that got us.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 30, 2018 19:11:03 GMT
Whining? What is whining? What is protest? Is one where you don’t agree with the sentiment and the other when you do? Are people whining about lack of gun control in the US? Are people whining about BREXIT? Anyway in answer to your question of course in football supporters can invoke change of ownership or change of attitude or change of style from the people that run their clubs but staying silent and accepting everything like sea lions clapping for their dinner during show time at Sea World will never change anything. In football people confuse criticism and asking questions of owners/ managers/ players/ club officials as not being true fans, as being moaners, as being whiners even! When in actual fact it is sensible and desirable that supporters just like shareholders of a business hold the people that are in charge to account. Keep them on their toes so they know that they cannot ride roughshod or disrespect the institution that they are mere custodians of, and to let them know that they will be held to account if they act selfishly by the shareholders or emotional shareholders as is the case of fans of a football club. There are plenty of instances of fans who are unhappy with the way that their clubs are run are invoking change. Charlton Athletic fans have been pretty united in seeing the back of their current owner and are on the brink of getting change www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/charlton-athletic-roland-duchatelet-league-one-plymouth-argyle-a8272456.html. Similar fan pressure has invoked or contributed towards change at Aston Villa and Sunderland in recent months and will hopefully yield the same at Blackpool too. The ALQs might not be as bad as some of those owners but they get an extraordinary easy ride from our fans considering they seem totally incapable or unwilling to make any progress on the two major things they promised to make a difference on when they took over. A decent stadium and new training ground. We are one year on now from them pulling out of the best chance we have ever had to have a fantastic new stadium and said they would redevelop the Mem instead and all we will have is a few hastily erected tents and no communication about anything. Yet we still have fans saying “keep the faith” and jumping down the throats of those who dare to question the ALQs. So yes those people do deserve the ALQs, their lack of communication and whatever plans selfish or otherwise they have for our beloved football club. Because it takes longer than a year, to plan a new stadium. Do you think we are bringing in a new CEO to do nothing?? One that has experience of planning facilities etc. Plus improving our back room staff, they must have a long term plan, however, confidentiality normal stops them from talking about it. Most clubs announce it, with pictures of the drawn up plans etc. Most fans realise a year is not long enough and if nothing has happened by this time next year. More questions will be asked. But what's the excuse for the lack of updates with the training ground? As far as "bringing in a new CEO" if you listen to his recent interview he introduced himself to Wael and persuaded him to employ him as a CEO, it's doesn't sound like Wael went out and found somebody with experience of planning facilities etc. If the ALQ's aren't prepared to "donate" any money to top up DC's transfer funds are they really going to find £30m+ for a new stadium and another £3m+ for a training ground?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 19:59:36 GMT
I appreciate this will likely turn sour but as I can't make it down the Mem until a couple of months into the new season, does anyone have any photos of the new improvements?
Notably the new North east section and club shop etc.
Just curious.
Cheers!
Looks like you were right ☹️ Ha was always going to happen!
In reference to another poster I wasn't taking the water with this thread.
But I didn't realise the stands were being put in over the next couple of weeks tho
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Post by gaelgas on Jul 30, 2018 20:33:01 GMT
Looks like you were right ☹️ Ha was always going to happen!
In reference to another poster I wasn't taking the water with this thread.
But I didn't realise the stands were being put in over the next couple of weeks tho
I didn't think you were to be honest, have to say I'm interested to see what the new stands look like too. As for the rest, well less said the better I think.
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