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Post by justin blue on Dec 12, 2018 13:39:57 GMT
I would spend miles beyond our means in the hope of reaching the premiership go bust and let someone else pick up the pieces.
Well it seemed to work for Portsmouth, Leicester and many others.
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Post by gregsy on Dec 12, 2018 13:47:26 GMT
I would spend miles beyond our means in the hope of reaching the premiership go bust and let someone else pick up the pieces. Well it seemed to work for Portsmouth, Leicester and many others. So are you suggesting that if we invested loads of cash on another tent, a new member of staff at the west weslosure pasty hut, and maybe fixed the flush in the family terrace loo we could be in the champions League in 5 years? |
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Post by baggins on Dec 12, 2018 13:49:13 GMT
I would spend miles beyond our means in the hope of reaching the premiership go bust and let someone else pick up the pieces. Well it seemed to work for Portsmouth, Leicester and many others. So are you suggesting that if we invested loads of cash on another tent, a new member of staff at the west weslosure pasty hut, and maybe fixed the flush in the family terrace loo we could be in the champions League in 5 years? There's a flush? |
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Post by gregsy on Dec 12, 2018 13:52:38 GMT
So are you suggesting that if we invested loads of cash on another tent, a new member of staff at the west weslosure pasty hut, and maybe fixed the flush in the family terrace loo we could be in the champions League in 5 years? There's a flush? To be fair, it's probably fixed by now.... I just haven't been back to find out.... |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 12, 2018 13:57:42 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I'm board out and all that - but I do believe the current board are spending within the clubs limits, which without a stadium is basically nothing.
I think its very easy to say lets spend within out limits but without a new stadium, the limit is about a fiver
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Post by lastminutewinner on Dec 12, 2018 14:00:12 GMT
Sounds great. But it's the first part of your manifesto that's the hard bit.
We need what, 50, 60 million to build a championship level stadium and training ground. Let's say we did that, got promoted and brought in an extra 10000 fans each game. That's about £200k a game, less expenses and tax probably £120k profit. 30 games (with cups) = £3.6m a year. So ignoring the fact that our player budget would have to increase (I'll assume TV and non-match day revenue etc takes care of that), it would take 14 years to 17 years to return that investment.
With the risk involved, who's going to be happy with forking out that much, tying up £60m in assets with very low liquidity, and not getting a return on investment for 17 years minimum?
Just FYI, 'prize' money just for being in the Championship is circa £6m a year (compared to not much over £1m for Lge 1 and just under a £1m for Lge 2) . Add the new TV deal in and the gap is getting pretty wide. The Championship is clearly the place to be.
Exactly the reason we should have 'gone for it' a bit more than we did in our first L1 season, off the back of 2 promotions and carried with momentum that teams like Accrington are currently experiencing.
The teams coming out of that league these days have the money to get back up straight away and most of them do. We just cant compete with that, especially as the scouting network seems non-existent and owners reluctant to exploit loopholes in the FFP, if we are indeed at our limit.
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Post by justin blue on Dec 12, 2018 14:02:05 GMT
To be fair, it's probably fixed by now.... I just haven't been back to find out.... I'd give it 10 minutes. |
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Post by Jomo on Dec 12, 2018 14:09:19 GMT
Just FYI, 'prize' money just for being in the Championship is circa £6m a year (compared to not much over £1m for Lge 1 and just under a £1m for Lge 2) . Add the new TV deal in and the gap is getting pretty wide. The Championship is clearly the place to be.
Exactly the reason we should have 'gone for it' a bit more than we did in our first L1 season, off the back of 2 promotions and carried with momentum that teams like Accrington are currently experiencing.
The teams coming out of that league these days have the money to get back up straight away and most of them do. We just cant compete with that, especially as the scouting network seems non-existent and owners reluctant to exploit loopholes in the FFP, if we are indeed at our limit.
Not to worry, when we get relegated, we can prepare for another double promotion, this time from L2 to the Championship! In all seriousness I do partly agree with what you're saying, but I don't think the Championship/PL is a utopia of riches in the way some people seem to think. I would imagine that in order to be even the slightest bit competitive, most if not all clubs up there must have to have playing budgets that see them lose money hand over fist. Look at City for example, despite bigger attendances and a money spinning cup run, they had to sell Reid, Flint and Bryan to balance the books. I wonder how Brentford have managed to stay so competitive with a small stadium. Them and Rotherham are two of the smaller clubs up there and I doubt either of them have a long term future at that level, even with Brentford's new stadium under way. Sadly I think our chances of ever becoming a sustainable Championship club are pretty much slim to nil. The competition is just too fierce for a club like ours, particularly if the owners are unable to deliver suitable infrastructure. |
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 12, 2018 14:43:03 GMT
Sounds great. But it's the first part of your manifesto that's the hard bit.
We need what, 50, 60 million to build a championship level stadium and training ground. Let's say we did that, got promoted and brought in an extra 10000 fans each game. That's about £200k a game, less expenses and tax probably £120k profit. 30 games (with cups) = £3.6m a year. So ignoring the fact that our player budget would have to increase (I'll assume TV and non-match day revenue etc takes care of that), it would take 14 years to 17 years to return that investment.
With the risk involved, who's going to be happy with forking out that much, tying up £60m in assets with very low liquidity, and not getting a return on investment for 17 years minimum?
Just FYI, 'prize' money just for being in the Championship is circa £6m a year (compared to not much over £1m for Lge 1 and just under a £1m for Lge 2) . Add the new TV deal in and the gap is getting pretty wide. The Championship is clearly the place to be. Yeah, but how much bigger is the wage bill if you want to stay in there?
The wage bill for mid table clubs in the Championship is about £15m-£20m a year. Our current wage bill is £4m-£5m. There goes your £5m prize money, and any extra sponsorship or off field earnings you want to come up with.
It's quite feasible that we would be in a worse financial position in the Championship.
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 12, 2018 15:20:14 GMT
Exactly the reason we should have 'gone for it' a bit more than we did in our first L1 season, off the back of 2 promotions and carried with momentum that teams like Accrington are currently experiencing.
The teams coming out of that league these days have the money to get back up straight away and most of them do. We just cant compete with that, especially as the scouting network seems non-existent and owners reluctant to exploit loopholes in the FFP, if we are indeed at our limit.
Not to worry, when we get relegated, we can prepare for another double promotion, this time from L2 to the Championship! In all seriousness I do partly agree with what you're saying, but I don't think the Championship/PL is a utopia of riches in the way some people seem to think. I would imagine that in order to be even the slightest bit competitive, most if not all clubs up there must have to have playing budgets that see them lose money hand over fist. Look at City for example, despite bigger attendances and a money spinning cup run, they had to sell Reid, Flint and Bryan to balance the books. I wonder how Brentford have managed to stay so competitive with a small stadium. Them and Rotherham are two of the smaller clubs up there and I doubt either of them have a long term future at that level, even with Brentford's new stadium under way. Sadly I think our chances of ever becoming a sustainable Championship club are pretty much slim to nil. The competition is just too fierce for a club like ours, particularly if the owners are unable to deliver suitable infrastructure. And both clubs make a large loss each season. Brentford's losses in particular are massive |
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Post by Jomo on Dec 12, 2018 15:27:20 GMT
Not to worry, when we get relegated, we can prepare for another double promotion, this time from L2 to the Championship! In all seriousness I do partly agree with what you're saying, but I don't think the Championship/PL is a utopia of riches in the way some people seem to think. I would imagine that in order to be even the slightest bit competitive, most if not all clubs up there must have to have playing budgets that see them lose money hand over fist. Look at City for example, despite bigger attendances and a money spinning cup run, they had to sell Reid, Flint and Bryan to balance the books. I wonder how Brentford have managed to stay so competitive with a small stadium. Them and Rotherham are two of the smaller clubs up there and I doubt either of them have a long term future at that level, even with Brentford's new stadium under way. Sadly I think our chances of ever becoming a sustainable Championship club are pretty much slim to nil. The competition is just too fierce for a club like ours, particularly if the owners are unable to deliver suitable infrastructure. And both clubs make a large loss each season. Brentford's losses in particular are massive Rotherham making large losses and their squad doesn't really have any big names in it. Sorry state of affairs football has become when massive losses are the norm. Where will it all end? |
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 12, 2018 15:29:57 GMT
And both clubs make a large loss each season. Brentford's losses in particular are massive Rotherham making large losses and their squad doesn't really have any big names in it. Sorry state of affairs football has become when massive losses are the norm. Where will it all end? So many big clubs have got close to the wall, but been saved. Surely eventually they will run out of saviours.
Bolton look close yet again
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 12, 2018 18:05:56 GMT
So are you suggesting that if we invested loads of cash on another tent, a new member of staff at the west weslosure pasty hut, and maybe fixed the flush in the family terrace loo we could be in the champions League in 5 years? There's a flush? There is, but unlike at your home, you would have to push it yourself. |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Dec 12, 2018 19:48:30 GMT
Just FYI, 'prize' money just for being in the Championship is circa £6m a year (compared to not much over £1m for Lge 1 and just under a £1m for Lge 2) . Add the new TV deal in and the gap is getting pretty wide. The Championship is clearly the place to be. Yeah, but how much bigger is the wage bill if you want to stay in there?
The wage bill for mid table clubs in the Championship is about £15m-£20m a year. Our current wage bill is £4m-£5m. There goes your £5m prize money, and any extra sponsorship or off field earnings you want to come up with.
It's quite feasible that we would be in a worse financial position in the Championship.
Might as well give up then!  Anyway, all this talk of the Championship and we hardly look like winning a game in L1. Lets focus on becoming competitive in this league first. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 12, 2018 23:40:25 GMT
Get the infrastructure right, that is the training ground and stadium, on a sustainable footing with community hiring projects and non match day revenue supporting the repayments. Strong youth and development ethos with coaches. Tie in with universities and higher education establishments with unconditional offers for scholars not taken on. Centralised accommodation for team building. Regular Q&As with fans. Quid a kid offers and build up relationships with local schools. Look to get involvement in the wider region, not just North and East Bristol. Do some international liaising to build on our unique brand (e.g. the quarters, Pirates connection, the US team who used our logo, Sabadell, etc). I wouldn't look to "buy" success until the above is in place. Sounds great. But it's the first part of your manifesto that's the hard bit.
We need what, 50, 60 million to build a championship level stadium and training ground. Let's say we did that, got promoted and brought in an extra 10000 fans each game. That's about £200k a game, less expenses and tax probably £120k profit. 30 games (with cups) = £3.6m a year. So ignoring the fact that our player budget would have to increase (I'll assume TV and non-match day revenue etc takes care of that), it would take 14 years to 17 years to return that investment.
With the risk involved, who's going to be happy with forking out that much, tying up £60m in assets with very low liquidity, and not getting a return on investment for 17 years minimum?
Totally agree. Not sure what the parameters of the brief is so would have to make some assumptions. Do we want a new build or a rebuild? What capacity would it be and would it be built in stages or in one go. In terms of finance, if it is a new build can we factor in selling the Mem as part of the costs or obtaining the Football grants available? What value would any sponsorship or naming rights bring? What about the student accommodation plan, could that be factored in? Were we to stay at the Mem, we could knock the whole thing down (£1.5m was quoted on here as a demolishion cost) and construct three sides with temporary seating (like Bath RFC) and use grant funds, some private monies, sponsorship and external commercial loans to construct a new grandstand (a smaller version of the Lansdown Stand). Over time, the temporary structures would be gradually replaced by permanent stands with extra facilities when funds allow. Get the footprint right and it can be done. New Meadow cost something like £11m, UWE was £30m. If land was found then selling the Mem would bring in c£15m, add to that the grant (£6m was quoted here) plus a commercial loan, etc adding say £5m could buy us a simple 15,000 seater. At the end of the day though, this is just back of the envelope figures and we would need to know what funds were available before cutting our cloth accordingly. |
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 13, 2018 12:17:57 GMT
Yeah, but how much bigger is the wage bill if you want to stay in there?
The wage bill for mid table clubs in the Championship is about £15m-£20m a year. Our current wage bill is £4m-£5m. There goes your £5m prize money, and any extra sponsorship or off field earnings you want to come up with.
It's quite feasible that we would be in a worse financial position in the Championship.
Might as well give up then! Anyway, all this talk of the Championship and we hardly look like winning a game in L1. Lets focus on becoming competitive in this league first. This topic is hypothetical, and besides, me focusing on anything isn't going to make any difference Rovers' performances!
Not give up, but hope for a cash rich person with a long investment time frame who wants the club as part of a larger project (like Lansdown), or survive and wait for football to blow up in it's own face.
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 13, 2018 12:21:28 GMT
Sounds great. But it's the first part of your manifesto that's the hard bit.
We need what, 50, 60 million to build a championship level stadium and training ground. Let's say we did that, got promoted and brought in an extra 10000 fans each game. That's about £200k a game, less expenses and tax probably £120k profit. 30 games (with cups) = £3.6m a year. So ignoring the fact that our player budget would have to increase (I'll assume TV and non-match day revenue etc takes care of that), it would take 14 years to 17 years to return that investment.
With the risk involved, who's going to be happy with forking out that much, tying up £60m in assets with very low liquidity, and not getting a return on investment for 17 years minimum?
Totally agree. Not sure what the parameters of the brief is so would have to make some assumptions. Do we want a new build or a rebuild? What capacity would it be and would it be built in stages or in one go. In terms of finance, if it is a new build can we factor in selling the Mem as part of the costs or obtaining the Football grants available? What value would any sponsorship or naming rights bring? What about the student accommodation plan, could that be factored in? Were we to stay at the Mem, we could knock the whole thing down (£1.5m was quoted on here as a demolishion cost) and construct three sides with temporary seating (like Bath RFC) and use grant funds, some private monies, sponsorship and external commercial loans to construct a new grandstand (a smaller version of the Lansdown Stand). Over time, the temporary structures would be gradually replaced by permanent stands with extra facilities when funds allow. Get the footprint right and it can be done. New Meadow cost something like £11m, UWE was £30m. If land was found then selling the Mem would bring in c£15m, add to that the grant (£6m was quoted here) plus a commercial loan, etc adding say £5m could buy us a simple 15,000 seater. At the end of the day though, this is just back of the envelope figures and we would need to know what funds were available before cutting our cloth accordingly. Yep. Allowing for risk, it's hard to build a business plan.
As per my last post, most clubs can only hope for a cash rich person with a long investment time frame who wants the club as part of a larger project (like Lansdown) or hobby, or survive and wait for football to blow up in it's own face.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Dec 13, 2018 15:03:37 GMT
Might as well give up then! Anyway, all this talk of the Championship and we hardly look like winning a game in L1. Lets focus on becoming competitive in this league first. This topic is hypothetical, and besides, me focusing on anything isn't going to make any difference Rovers' performances!
Not give up, but hope for a cash rich person with a long investment time frame who wants the club as part of a larger project (like Lansdown), or survive and wait for football to blow up in it's own face.
I think our only hope is a Lansdown-type as nobody appears capable of providing the much needed stadium we need in order to move the club forward.
Chances of that happening though are slim to none!
Until then though who knows what will happen. Going down to L2 will be take some coming back from this time imo.
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