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Post by Gassy on Feb 7, 2019 10:28:57 GMT
Thanks for everything Tommy, really appreciate the effort.
I live abroad which makes attending any future forums exceptionally difficult, but my burning comments/questions are:
1. Stadium & Training Ground (as already mentioned above) - Not true, so either the club or Steve is lying. Shocking.
2. How can you compare us to Bournemouth? Bournemouth's owner spent millions upon millions developing the club. What have we had?
3. "You cant please everyone, look at the Glazers/Chelsea" - Sure, although many Utd fans are happy with Glazers now. If you asked most Chelsea fans if they're happy with Abramovic - most would say yes. If you ask Rovers fans, most would say no. So clearly, we can't just dismiss the issues with "you cant please everyone"
4. As mentioned above, if money isn't a problem, then what is the problem with training ground and/or stadiums? Hamer once said that you cant expect the family to pay for the stadium themselves, outside investment is natural. Ok, so do we or don't we then have the funding?
5. What really went wrong at UWE?
6. What really went wrong with the "new stadium & training ground"? If understand you cant mention names due to NDA, but you can mention issues that arose.
7. Why do we have a London office? 7a. Who works there? 7b. What is the benefit of the London office, above investing that money into the playing budget?
8. I think Hamer & Starnes need to be there together in future.
9. Has BRFC ever put into an agreement or contract an NDA? (not that I expect an honest answer)
10. Tell me Martin &/or Starnes, how in your opinion is BRFC evolving/moving forward?
11. If Hamer is the puppet of Wael & co, then from this interview, Ken Masters is the puppet of Hamer.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 7, 2019 10:29:18 GMT
One thing I have to say is that whilst I do feel the owners warrant some criticism like the above, as communication really does have to improve and thanks Tommy for proposing the bi-monthly forums. However the sort of abuse Hamer said they allegedly get, is unacceptable and goes way beyond criticism. There is no need for any fans to get personal and abusive. By all means ask questions and criticise constructively when it is warranted, and this should be taken in good humour by the owners and they should hold their heads up high, front up and defend themselves. Not just go into hiding as they seem to have done so many times since the UWE collapsed. They would be doing themselves a huge favour if they came out and fronted up more often, rather than staying quiet for months on end. Yeah, I felt there was an air of 'the more good will you give the more you will get back' from some of Hamer's answers. Istm it's not much different to abusing a player and then expecting that to improve their game. Some fans treat the club as their own personal 2 Minute's Hate, and don't really consider whether it's constructive or helpful, as long as they get to abuse someone.
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Post by farmygas on Feb 7, 2019 10:38:42 GMT
One thing I have to say is that whilst I do feel the owners warrant some criticism like the above, as communication really does have to improve and thanks Tommy for proposing the bi-monthly forums. However the sort of abuse Hamer said they allegedly get, is unacceptable and goes way beyond criticism. There is no need for any fans to get personal and abusive. By all means ask questions and criticise constructively when it is warranted, and this should be taken in good humour by the owners and they should hold their heads up high, front up and defend themselves. Not just go into hiding as they seem to have done so many times since the UWE collapsed. They would be doing themselves a huge favour if they came out and fronted up more often, rather than staying quiet for months on end. Yeah, I felt there was an air of 'the more good will you give the more you will get back' from some of Hamer's answers. Istm it's not much different to abusing a player and then expecting that to improve their game. Some fans treat the club as their own personal 2 Minute's Hate, and don't really consider whether it's constructive or helpful, as long as they get to abuse someone. Unfortunately The Fam and Hamer are bearing the brunt of decades of unforgivable neglect. It's unfair on them but then they did come in saying they were building the UWE and selling to Sainsbury's was no longer a requirement. Not to mention buying land for a state of the art training ground that's sitting around doing nothing for reasons. It's been an intensely secretive climb-down since then and people are sick of being treated that way. On the other hand the club's still standing, the media side of things is markedly improved, we have a new tent ( ) etc but they shouldn't have come in all guns blazing being carried down Glos Rd and kissing the badge if you're just gonna morph into Higgs imo.
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Post by toddy1953 on Feb 7, 2019 13:18:21 GMT
Well done & thanks for your efforts Tommy, if we all were as proactive as you, the owners might take the fan base seriously. I genuinely think there is a disconnect somewhere between the 'board' and the owners. There are certainly communication issues, (land for training ground alongside stadium) whether that is the clubs fault or lazy local journalism, I don't know. I don't read the Evil Post, but it's obvious they trawl through social media for stories. SH is obviously a master politician, and comes up with irrelevant & often patronising scenarios to try & appease the fans (Bournemoth Chelsea, the Sh** stadium rebuild examples the latest). Nice to hear Ken's nostalgic stories, and his enthusiasm for the club but the cynic in me can't help thinking it was pre arranged as a filler. Positive on the bi monthly forum, but not sure if we will get to know more about the direction of the club or address some of the fears, expressed by some on this forum.
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Post by mehewmagic on Feb 7, 2019 13:23:19 GMT
Hi Gasheads, I was invited in to chat to Steve and Ken about the petition and below is the audio from that chat. This was before the Wycombe game and I can only apologise for the delay in releasing this. Life has gotten in the way. Heads up this has been edited as some of the recording was of too poor a quality to use unfortunately. The below link is for the audio: gas-cast.co.uk/blog/2019/02/06/tom-metcalfe-chats-to-steve-hamer-and-ken-masters/Since this chat Steve has tasked the head of media with arranging regular i.e bi monthly fans forums. Hopefully this will go someway to opening the lines of communication between the board and us fans. Thanks to all that have signed and shares. I've appreciated all the support this petition has received. Cheers and UTG Tom A point of clarification. There is no Head of Media. The Head of Media was Keith Brookman. He resigned. He has not been replaced. Dylan & James are still there, and Dylan has been upgraded a bit. Rob McNichol has come in to be Programme Editor but there is no Head of Media.
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Post by Baxtinho on Feb 7, 2019 14:02:45 GMT
5. What really went wrong at UWE? I know there's dozens of threads about this already, but wasn't this to do with the oft-reported non-ticket revenues? As in, we wouldn't have made enough money on a matchday to make it viable?
It seemed that a lot of people (esp. on here) were keen to go along with any old deal as long as it was in a new ground, and that's what they won't look beyond.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 14:19:57 GMT
5. What really went wrong at UWE? I know there's dozens of threads about this already, but wasn't this to do with the oft-reported non-ticket revenues? As in, we wouldn't have made enough money on a matchday to make it viable?
It seemed that a lot of people (esp. on here) were keen to go along with any old deal as long as it was in a new ground, and that's what they won't look beyond.
Until this is clarified by an official who would know it's simply one of those infamous 'Gaschat facts'. The only official reasons given as far as I can recall were Hamer's offhand comment about going to Jordan and Wael's (rather bemusing) comment about the location being out of town which he didn't think was a good thing for the club and fans. We will probably never be told officially exactly why it didn't happen and that is part of the reason why I distrust the owners- we had a stadium deal, now we don't so imo it's up to the Al Qadi's first and foremost to explain why the deal that their predecessor and the UWE struck was not followed through on. I fear it was a good deal for the club but not for them and so we have lost all hope of a new ground for the forseeable future while DS will eventually ride off into the sunset long before we all do leaving behind them the same shambles that they inherited. Anyway, full respect to Tommy for the interview. Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet but the summary of the content is not a million miles away from what I was expecting. Hamer and DS clearly not singing from the same hymn sheet but we all knew that anyway didn't we? Hopefully a regular forum emerges from this but i would hope that it would give a chance for frank, gloves off discussion rather than a chance to tell stories about the good old days!
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Post by Gassy on Feb 7, 2019 15:16:02 GMT
I know there's dozens of threads about this already, but wasn't this to do with the oft-reported non-ticket revenues? As in, we wouldn't have made enough money on a matchday to make it viable?
It seemed that a lot of people (esp. on here) were keen to go along with any old deal as long as it was in a new ground, and that's what they won't look beyond.
Until this is clarified by an official who would know it's simply one of those infamous 'Gaschat facts'. The only official reasons given as far as I can recall were Hamer's offhand comment about going to Jordan and Wael's (rather bemusing) comment about the location being out of town which he didn't think was a good thing for the club and fans. We will probably never be told officially exactly why it didn't happen and that is part of the reason why I distrust the owners- we had a stadium deal, now we don't so imo it's up to the Al Qadi's first and foremost to explain why the deal that their predecessor and the UWE struck was not followed through on. I fear it was a good deal for the club but not for them and so we have lost all hope of a new ground for the forseeable future while DS will eventually ride off into the sunset long before we all do leaving behind them the same shambles that they inherited. Anyway, full respect to Tommy for the interview. Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet but the summary of the content is not a million miles away from what I was expecting. Hamer and DS clearly not singing from the same hymn sheet but we all knew that anyway didn't we? Hopefully a regular forum emerges from this but i would hope that it would give a chance for frank, gloves off discussion rather than a chance to tell stories about the good old days! This. And what's more frustrating is that (for them) it would/could have been so easy to throw the old owners under the bus by saying that they put together a bad deal which wouldn't benefit Bristol Rovers. They'd have then got the backing from fans (within reason) for making the right call for our club. Yet they didn't, they didn't say anything. Yet the Hamer comes out in this interview and says he has to find the balance between the fans and DS. Well as far as I see it, I don't see anything for the fans, just whatever DS wants.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 7, 2019 15:40:50 GMT
Until this is clarified by an official who would know it's simply one of those infamous 'Gaschat facts'. The only official reasons given as far as I can recall were Hamer's offhand comment about going to Jordan and Wael's (rather bemusing) comment about the location being out of town which he didn't think was a good thing for the club and fans. We will probably never be told officially exactly why it didn't happen and that is part of the reason why I distrust the owners- we had a stadium deal, now we don't so imo it's up to the Al Qadi's first and foremost to explain why the deal that their predecessor and the UWE struck was not followed through on. I fear it was a good deal for the club but not for them and so we have lost all hope of a new ground for the forseeable future while DS will eventually ride off into the sunset long before we all do leaving behind them the same shambles that they inherited. Anyway, full respect to Tommy for the interview. Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet but the summary of the content is not a million miles away from what I was expecting. Hamer and DS clearly not singing from the same hymn sheet but we all knew that anyway didn't we? Hopefully a regular forum emerges from this but i would hope that it would give a chance for frank, gloves off discussion rather than a chance to tell stories about the good old days! This. And what's more frustrating is that (for them) it would/could have been so easy to throw the old owners under the bus by saying that they put together a bad deal which wouldn't benefit Bristol Rovers. They'd have then got the backing from fans (within reason) for making the right call for our club. Yet they didn't, they didn't say anything. Yet the Hamer comes out in this interview and says he has to find the balance between the fans and DS. Well as far as I see it, I don't see anything for the fans, just whatever DS wants. That's exactly what they said. And the fans didn't want to hear it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 15:42:14 GMT
Until this is clarified by an official who would know it's simply one of those infamous 'Gaschat facts'. The only official reasons given as far as I can recall were Hamer's offhand comment about going to Jordan and Wael's (rather bemusing) comment about the location being out of town which he didn't think was a good thing for the club and fans. We will probably never be told officially exactly why it didn't happen and that is part of the reason why I distrust the owners- we had a stadium deal, now we don't so imo it's up to the Al Qadi's first and foremost to explain why the deal that their predecessor and the UWE struck was not followed through on. I fear it was a good deal for the club but not for them and so we have lost all hope of a new ground for the forseeable future while DS will eventually ride off into the sunset long before we all do leaving behind them the same shambles that they inherited. Anyway, full respect to Tommy for the interview. Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet but the summary of the content is not a million miles away from what I was expecting. Hamer and DS clearly not singing from the same hymn sheet but we all knew that anyway didn't we? Hopefully a regular forum emerges from this but i would hope that it would give a chance for frank, gloves off discussion rather than a chance to tell stories about the good old days! This. And what's more frustrating is that (for them) it would/could have been so easy to throw the old owners under the bus by saying that they put together a bad deal which wouldn't benefit Bristol Rovers. They'd have then got the backing from fans (within reason) for making the right call for our club. Yet they didn't, they didn't say anything. Yet the Hamer comes out in this interview and says he has to find the balance between the fans and DS. Well as far as I see it, I don't see anything for the fans, just whatever DS wants. Sort of- the one thing I *do* credit them with is that undoubtedly with regards to the UWE there were confidientiality clauses so I doubt they could come out and throw anyone under the bus over UWE without breaking them. So the UWE will unfortunately remain a black box to us supporters. I'm personally not convinced by the reasons they *have* given (as outlined above) and their inability to come across as credible owners since (compounded by Tommy's interview where the land purchase statement seems to be contradicted) makes me look unfavourably on their role in the collapse of the UWE. I just hope they or a new owner can produce something tangible to work towards in the short term because trying to move forward while looking back at the UWE wondering what might have been and why it collapsed is soul crushing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 15:44:09 GMT
This. And what's more frustrating is that (for them) it would/could have been so easy to throw the old owners under the bus by saying that they put together a bad deal which wouldn't benefit Bristol Rovers. They'd have then got the backing from fans (within reason) for making the right call for our club. Yet they didn't, they didn't say anything. Yet the Hamer comes out in this interview and says he has to find the balance between the fans and DS. Well as far as I see it, I don't see anything for the fans, just whatever DS wants. That's exactly what they said. And the fans didn't want to hear it. Where did they actually say this though? It seemed to me that was an assumption that gathered legs on the forums etc...
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Post by gas2 on Feb 7, 2019 15:50:44 GMT
Good interview Tommy next time take Jeremy paxman to interrogate them
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 7, 2019 16:09:17 GMT
This. And what's more frustrating is that (for them) it would/could have been so easy to throw the old owners under the bus by saying that they put together a bad deal which wouldn't benefit Bristol Rovers. They'd have then got the backing from fans (within reason) for making the right call for our club. Yet they didn't, they didn't say anything. Yet the Hamer comes out in this interview and says he has to find the balance between the fans and DS. Well as far as I see it, I don't see anything for the fans, just whatever DS wants. That's exactly what they said. And the fans didn't want to hear it. I know we go around in circles on this subject but did it really take the ALQ's 18 months to work out NH's deal was a bad one for the club, if that was the case why did the feasibility study come back apparently positive? Plus why did SH suggest if the UWE had accepted an invite to go to Jordan a deal might have been achievable, would the deal suddenly have become a good one because it was agreed in Jordan rather then Bristol? I don't really get what the ALQ's intentions are with Rovers but I doubt it ever involves building a new stadium/training ground.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 7, 2019 16:22:07 GMT
That's exactly what they said. And the fans didn't want to hear it. I know we go around in circles on this subject but did it really take the ALQ's 18 months to work out NH's deal was a bad one for the club, if that was the case why did the feasibility study come back apparently positive? Plus why did SH suggest if the UWE had accepted an invite to go to Jordan a deal might have been achievable, would the deal suddenly have become a good one because it was agreed in Jordan rather then Bristol? I don't really get what the ALQ's intentions are with Rovers but I doubt it ever involves building a new stadium/training ground. I imagine they were trying to re-negotiate it. I would think the feasibility study studied what was feasible and what wasn't as a basis for negotiation. I would think by mentioning the Jordan issue he was implying that UWE weren't totally serious about the re-negotiations. Thing is, all my responses make sense; you might not agree with them but they are largely internally consistent. But you would rather have things not make sense, and be confused. And keep saying 'Nothing makes sense.' Which is fine, but surely it's better to try to come up with a coherent interpretation for things, than come up with an incoherent one, and then complain that things aren't coherent?
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 7, 2019 16:27:02 GMT
That's exactly what they said. And the fans didn't want to hear it. Where did they actually say this though? It seemed to me that was an assumption that gathered legs on the forums etc... No, they said it.
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Post by Thatslife on Feb 7, 2019 16:29:14 GMT
There is plenty on room for both if Emerson Green Science Park was the site in question..... Have you ever been there? Doesn’t look anywhere near big enough to me. Besides it is already being extended. Baffled as to why some are obsessed with a site in Emersons Green Plenty of developement land available in Severnside, about 1000 acres.
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Post by peterparker on Feb 7, 2019 16:43:44 GMT
Where did they actually say this though? It seemed to me that was an assumption that gathered legs on the forums etc... No, they said it. To be fair I think it was Hamer that said it, so if anyone chooses to believe him and many probably wouldn't
It's like the top 6 budget use to bash him with when Hamer's actual quote is “In his own words (in reference to DC) he believes his budget is a top six budget."
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Post by Gassy on Feb 7, 2019 16:59:14 GMT
Where did they actually say this though? It seemed to me that was an assumption that gathered legs on the forums etc... No, they said it. What, you mean the most vague sentence anyone has ever stated, "The UWE Stadium deal fell through because we didn't feel it was right for the club, that's the only reason"?? Just to further that statement "People keep on saying we don't have a plan B or C, but we do have a plan B, C, D and E. We all know that we need new facilities and we are working hard behind the scenes to achieve that, it's going to take time." Sorry AF, but if you're happy to believe they're doing everything they can then fair enough. But don't go accusing other forum members of not knowing what they want/wanting things not make sense. How can they make sense when they don't say anything? We're then left to guess what on earth is going on at our club! You're stating that your interpretation makes sense, but so do 1000 others. Does it not also make more sense that simply put, they don't have the funds nor the will to invest? Consider DC said the budget is likely to get slashed, considering we're moving backwards, considering we don't have a stadium or training ground on the way - in fact we've moved backwards with the stadium. And this is all considering that UWE actually came out saying they were shocked to see Rovers pull out of the deal, whilst you've now interpreted that "UWE weren't totally serious about the re-negotiations". Ok then.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 17:21:54 GMT
Where did they actually say this though? It seemed to me that was an assumption that gathered legs on the forums etc... No, they said it. Where though? Is it in print?
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Post by peterparker on Feb 7, 2019 17:28:59 GMT
Where though? Is it in print? Sure it's somewhere. It will have been not long after Watola was given the shove
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