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Post by popuppirate on Dec 16, 2018 11:38:21 GMT
Garner's a fair shout, but I really think we need full management experience at the club especially as it's a very challenging time to be taking over. The new man needs to unite the club and work well with his employers, as well as man manage players and get the fans onside. It's surely a role for an experienced manager, so it's a no from me.
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 16, 2018 11:41:44 GMT
I can't help but think that Michael Flynn ticks all of the boxes for me.. Getting him, now that's a completely different story... Ok, so hypothetical situation. The final 2 candidates are Flynn and Garner. Who do you choose? Garner has had a great apprenticeship under some brilliant managers in the game at some top clubs working with top talent. To be entrusted with training and teaching those types of players at a young age takes great leadership skills as well as application of the things you are learning from your mentors. However he lacks the real experience of leading squads on match days, picking teams, formations, tactics and styles of play and building his own philosophy. He’s effectively working other people’s. You cannot discount his network of contacts either, however we cannot or might not be able to afford the talent within his black book of potential signings and does he have enough knowledge of the lower leagues to find players and develop them like DC did? How would he handle players which may not have as much natural or technical ability that he is used to working with? If we did get relegated could he be the man to turn it around the next year. Then you have Flynn. Doing his own apprenticeship in the league below and making a good fist of it. Playing smart and effective football with players that would just about make it into a conference team with a couple of shrewd local loans from BCFC thrown in. His tactics, philosophy and style are clearly working, but he hasn’t actually achieved anything yet, and will he be still learning on the job here, in what is a pressure cooker of an environment where expectation is high? Although he’s played in the championship it was always at smaller clubs and has never coached alongside any watermarked names in the game, so how many ideas does he have? Does he have a good enough network of scouts and contacts? If we did get relegated would you trust him long term to turn it around next year? A tough call on either of them. If you choose either of them it has to be with the long term in mind regardless of whether we go down or not. They have to be given time to build for next year. Personally, I would side with Pirate and go with Garner.
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 16, 2018 11:42:28 GMT
It would be totally madness in my view to employ someone with either no managerial or at least past Rovers experience. If the owners get this appointment wrong then we'll be back in Div 2 looking at attendances of 5,000/6,000 next season. it.
I said the exact same thing about Robbie Fowler.
The sh!t we find ourselves in, both on and off the field, only a experienced manager should get IMO!
Like Penny you mean...??
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Post by South Stand Ultra on Dec 16, 2018 12:12:17 GMT
I said the exact same thing about Robbie Fowler.
The sh!t we find ourselves in, both on and off the field, only a experienced manager should get IMO!
Like Penny you mean...??
If you like. But I doubt the new new manager would have a rebellion like he did.
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Post by paulpirate on Dec 16, 2018 12:12:28 GMT
Garner for me just put a score on him
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 16, 2018 12:24:28 GMT
If you like. But I doubt the new new manager would have a rebellion like he did.
Perhaps. But a strong experienced manager would’ve put the likes of Coles, Regan and Campbell out to pasture and actually laid down the law. He had the time and he had the window to do so and Higgs should’ve have backed him IMO.
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Post by blueblood1883 on Dec 16, 2018 12:30:15 GMT
I can't help but think that Michael Flynn ticks all of the boxes for me.. Getting him, now that's a completely different story... Ok, so hypothetical situation. The final 2 candidates are Flynn and Garner. Who do you choose? Garner has had a great apprenticeship under some brilliant managers in the game at some top clubs working with top talent. To be entrusted with training and teaching those types of players at a young age takes great leadership skills as well as application of the things you are learning from your mentors. However he lacks the real experience of leading squads on match days, picking teams, formations, tactics and styles of play and building his own philosophy. He’s effectively working other people’s. You cannot discount his network of contacts either, however we cannot or might not be able to afford the talent within his black book of potential signings and does he have enough knowledge of the lower leagues to find players and develop them like DC did? How would he handle players which may not have as much natural or technical ability that he is used to working with? If we did get relegated could he be the man to turn it around the next year. Then you have Flynn. Doing his own apprenticeship in the league below and making a good fist of it. Playing smart and effective football with players that would just about make it into a conference team with a couple of shrewd local loans from BCFC thrown in. His tactics, philosophy and style are clearly working, but he hasn’t actually achieved anything yet, and will he be still learning on the job here, in what is a pressure cooker of an environment where expectation is high? Although he’s played in the championship it was always at smaller clubs and has never coached alongside any watermarked names in the game, so how many ideas does he have? Does he have a good enough network of scouts and contacts? If we did get relegated would you trust him long term to turn it around next year? A tough call on either of them. If you choose either of them it has to be with the long term in mind regardless of whether we go down or not. They have to be given time to build for next year. Personally, I would side with Pirate and go with Garner. You've raised some excellent points and there is a case for either of them to get the job. Flynn isn't that dissimilar to how we appointed DC four years ago albeit Flynn has a little bit of football league management to his name and he's steered Newport into the third round of the FA Cup against Leicester. His network of contacts won't be as extensive as Garners, but I'd trust Flynn to get us out of the mire and move us on as a club. That's purely an opinion and nothing more, but I'm in favour of a younger manager even at the expense of somebody experienced like Cotterill...
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Post by South Stand Ultra on Dec 16, 2018 12:31:34 GMT
If you like. But I doubt the new new manager would have a rebellion like he did.
Perhaps. But a strong experienced manager would’ve put the likes of Coles, Regan and Campbell out to pasture and actually laid down the law. He had the time and he had the window to do so and Higgs should’ve have backed him IMO.
And in your opinion, who would he have replaced them with? Should he have chucked in 3 u18's kids into a relegation fight?
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 16, 2018 12:37:01 GMT
Perhaps. But a strong experienced manager would’ve put the likes of Coles, Regan and Campbell out to pasture and actually laid down the law. He had the time and he had the window to do so and Higgs should’ve have backed him IMO.
And in your opinion, who would he have replaced them with? Should he have chucked in 3 u18's kids into a relegation fight?
Not necessarily. But he had the window to sort it with the Chairman’s backing. Like you said it was a poisonous situation where there were no real answers and even the leader of the revolts brief tenure ended with relegation with football no better than any other regime.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Dec 16, 2018 12:38:20 GMT
I'm going to nail my colours to the mast and say I think Ben Garner should get the managers job here if he wants it. Yesterday he was 16/1 with certain bookmakers. As Tony Pulis has said of him in the past: “Ben has it in him to one day step into the manager’s role. He’s got the potential.” He has worked at close quarters with some good people like Holloway, Pulis, Warnock, Pardew, Venables, Lennie Lawrence and Gerry Francis, will have surely built up a good contact list and with his reputation in the game managers will be willing to send loan players to us as they know they will be entering a good working environment and receive top class coaching. He helped bring through talents such as Victor Moses, Nathaniel Clyne, Wilfried Zaha, Sean Scannell and Jonny Williams at Crystal Palace. He has gone on to coach 200 games at the senior level – most of them in the Premier League. During 2012/2013 season he was promoted to Crystal Palace First Team Coach under then manager Ian Holloway. On 27 May 2013 Crystal Palace were promoted to the Premier League after beating Watford 1-0 AET at Wembley in the Championship Play-Off Final. Garner remained as First Team Coach in the 2013/2014 season when Tony Pulis was appointed as Ian Holloway’s successor on 23 November 2013. Crystal Palace retained their Premier League status for the first time in the club’s history finishing in 11th place and Pulis won the LMA Manager of the Year award. Has the UEFA PRO licence and the LMA Diploma in Management, as well as a having a degree in sports science and a diploma in neuro-linguistic programming, he has learned Spanish. He was linked with the Nottingham Forest and Bradford City jobs and I think he could prove a good short and long term appointment for us. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Garnerwww.londonnewsonline.co.uk/ex-palace-coach-garner-has-the-know-how-to-manage-at-the-highest-level/footballcoaching.co.nz/ben-garner-previous-premier-league-first-team-coach-uk/the72.co.uk/115156/ben-garner-bradford-citys-potential-new-manager/What would you say on Mark Robbins? His Swindon team played great football getting to the playoff final in league one a couple years back. Used to working with loans and a budget. Mark Robins manages Coventry.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Dec 16, 2018 12:42:42 GMT
Experience has and can work for us short term but never seems to long term. Maybe someone like Garner surrounded by experience. Is it experience that is important or the ability to deal with the situation at hand? Listening to their interviews, Garner strikes me as somebody who could deal with the situation better than Robbie Fowler for example.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Dec 16, 2018 13:34:04 GMT
Experience has and can work for us short term but never seems to long term. Maybe someone like Garner surrounded by experience. Is it experience that is important or the ability to deal with the situation at hand? Listening to their interviews, Garner strikes me as somebody who could deal with the situation better than Robbie Fowler for example. How do you define experience though? Previous to his spell at Palace as a 24-year-old, he had already secured the Level 2 Coaching Qualification whilst still playing and his injury forced Garner to focus on a coaching pathway. He studied Sports & Exercise Science at University alongside coaching as much as he could. He ran soccer schools, coached in development centres, and coached non-league youth teams. By 22-years-old he had graduated from Uni and had also completed the UEFA B Coaching Qualification. Following his graduation he spent 6 months working in America for the MLS and Chicago Fire Academy. Garner was coaching in the Crystal Palace academy at 24 and progressed to the role of first-team coach at the age of 32. The past five seasons have been spent in the Premier League, never finishing lower than 14th. He has taken charge as manager for pre-season games and Football League Trophy games and also combined his role of first-team coach with some scouting duties.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Dec 16, 2018 14:38:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 15:33:48 GMT
I fear the club will just rely on CVs coming in rather than approach the type of manager they might want. Flynn for example would need an approach to Newport as he's under contract and I just can't see our so called top brass having the nous to identify targets.
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Post by gasfishponds on Dec 16, 2018 15:39:23 GMT
Ben garner is a great shout, not people know this but Ben did some work for Bristol rovers community trust mental health project. He ran a session in June for for the project and my mate who runs the project said he was amazing and after the session but did a talk for the players about his career which apparently they all loved and Ben was a real gem and quality is legit. Here the film they made which is on the community trust YouTube page
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Post by chilly1883 on Dec 16, 2018 17:01:33 GMT
He knows his sh**👍🏽
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Post by gasandelectricity on Dec 16, 2018 17:14:06 GMT
The more I hear the more I like the guy.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Dec 16, 2018 17:18:05 GMT
The thing I like about someone like this is he clearly shows a lot of hunger and desire for a successful career, definitely not just here for a pay day and speaks well. I'd imagine he would be cheaper than most too. Not sure how good his contacts would be but I'd be happy enough with him.
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Post by Jomo on Dec 16, 2018 17:20:16 GMT
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Post by Jomo on Dec 16, 2018 17:26:51 GMT
Ben garner is a great shout, not people know this but Ben did some work for Bristol rovers community trust mental health project. He ran a session in June for for the project and my mate who runs the project said he was amazing and after the session but did a talk for the players about his career which apparently they all loved and Ben was a real gem and quality is legit. Here the film they made which is on the community trust YouTube page Really interesting, thanks gasfishponds! It wouldn't surprise me if he puts his name into the hat actually, and perhaps those within the club that work closely with the BRCT might put in a good word for him. A double act of Ben Garner plus an experienced head along the lines of Lennie or similar, would be a very exciting appointment.
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