pirate
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Post by pirate on Jan 21, 2019 0:07:42 GMT
Did you even go to the game? Lockyer and Craig were awful, neither good enough for League One, why Broadbent was sold on is beyond me. I was at the game as I am at every home game and I'm afraid you are dead wrong. Lockyer and, especially, Craig are excellent defenders. The fact that there's no creativity or goals further up the field is not their fault. Seriously, how can you say they were awful? What's our goals conceded compared to other teams? What is the point of having any creative players in the centre if the ball bypasses the midfield with Lockyer and Craig's aimless long ball punts forward?
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Post by orgasmic on Jan 21, 2019 7:40:38 GMT
I was at the game as I am at every home game and I'm afraid you are dead wrong. Lockyer and, especially, Craig are excellent defenders. The fact that there's no creativity or goals further up the field is not their fault. Seriously, how can you say they were awful? What's our goals conceded compared to other teams? What is the point of having any creative players in the centre if the ball bypasses the midfield with Lockyer and Craig's aimless long ball punts forward? Perhaps that's the problem? If they had an outlet in midfield they might use it rather than hoofing it hopefully. Our midfield seems to lack people that want the ball!
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Post by Langford Gas on Jan 21, 2019 9:09:54 GMT
I agreed with this until I watched the goal on TV and albeit the boy was climbing on Locks ,for me he ducked ! rank bad defending by him on that occasion IMO Maybe but with the ball so close to the goal line how come bonham didnt punch it clear? I dont think Bonham could, as you alluded to it was almost the perfect corner, but I think Locks should have stood up, the outcome may have been the same but at least he wouldn't have looked as though he bottled it (maybe a bit strong) but you will probably get my meaning. Edit: just re watched it and yes I agree, Bonham should have done better, he flapped.
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Post by noblegas on Jan 21, 2019 10:38:42 GMT
What is the point of having any creative players in the centre if the ball bypasses the midfield with Lockyer and Craig's aimless long ball punts forward? Perhaps that's the problem? If they had an outlet in midfield they might use it rather than hoofing it hopefully. Our midfield seems to lack people that want the ball! Exactly this. How often do you see Craig or Lockyer with the ball looking for a short pass to a midfielder? All the time. None of the midfielders are in space or wanting the ball so it gets hoofed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 10:58:06 GMT
Maybe but with the ball so close to the goal line how come bonham didnt punch it clear? I dont think Bonham could, as you alluded to it was almost the perfect corner, but I think Locks should have stood up, the outcome may have been the same but at least he wouldn't have looked as though he bottled it (maybe a bit strong) but you will probably get my meaning. Edit: just re watched it and yes I agree, Bonham should have done better, he flapped. I have watched this six times and still cannot believe that a. Bonham didn’t come and claim the ball and b. Lockyer was facing the away supporters. Whether he was trying to block the Wycombe player I don’t know but it was soft defending alround. To concede from a straightforward corner like that is disappointing. The lack of goals are a worry but poor defending has cost us more.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 12:07:12 GMT
I dont think Bonham could, as you alluded to it was almost the perfect corner, but I think Locks should have stood up, the outcome may have been the same but at least he wouldn't have looked as though he bottled it (maybe a bit strong) but you will probably get my meaning. Edit: just re watched it and yes I agree, Bonham should have done better, he flapped. I have watched this six times and still cannot believe that a. Bonham didn’t come and claim the ball and b. Lockyer was facing the away supporters. Whether he was trying to block the Wycombe player I don’t know but it was soft defending alround. To concede from a straightforward corner like that is disappointing. The lack of goals are a worry but poor defending has cost us more. A quick look at our goal difference makes that statement look silly.
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Post by rocknrollaayatollah on Jan 21, 2019 12:20:31 GMT
What is the point of having any creative players in the centre if the ball bypasses the midfield with Lockyer and Craig's aimless long ball punts forward? Perhaps that's the problem? If they had an outlet in midfield they might use it rather than hoofing it hopefully. Our midfield seems to lack people that want the ball! Exactly this. Lines came on on Saturday and instead of coming deep to get the ball he was signalling to Craig and Lockyer to lump it forward.
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Terrible
Jan 21, 2019 12:23:02 GMT
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Post by geddongas on Jan 21, 2019 12:23:02 GMT
Perhaps that's the problem? If they had an outlet in midfield they might use it rather than hoofing it hopefully. Our midfield seems to lack people that want the ball! Exactly this. Lines came on on Saturday and instead of coming deep to get the ball he was signalling to Craig and Lockyer to lump it forward. Didn’t we used to have Sincs doing that job? Or was he just covering every single blade of grass anyway and did it better than anyone else currently is?
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Post by rocknrollaayatollah on Jan 21, 2019 12:33:40 GMT
I was at the game as I am at every home game and I'm afraid you are dead wrong. Lockyer and, especially, Craig are excellent defenders. The fact that there's no creativity or goals further up the field is not their fault. Seriously, how can you say they were awful? What's our goals conceded compared to other teams? What is the point of having any creative players in the centre if the ball bypasses the midfield with Lockyer and Craig's aimless long ball punts forward? I can't seeing it being much different with 'ball-playing' centre halves in GC's system (if there even is one). The punts forward may be a bit more accurate but the ball would keep coming back to the centre halves from the midfield.
I know we weren't playing well at the end of DC's reign but the centre halves were definitely not making as many long punts forward which indicates it could be a lot down to GC's system/tactics.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 12:34:31 GMT
I have watched this six times and still cannot believe that a. Bonham didn’t come and claim the ball and b. Lockyer was facing the away supporters. Whether he was trying to block the Wycombe player I don’t know but it was soft defending alround. To concede from a straightforward corner like that is disappointing. The lack of goals are a worry but poor defending has cost us more. A quick look at our goal difference makes that statement look silly. Not really. Our goal difference has no relevance, where does it factor in a game costing error? How many points have been dropped because of an individual mistake or error? Many games this season and last come to think of it, had 0.0 written all over them until a defensive error cost us the game. Not scoring doesn’t win you games obviously but an error leading to a goal certainly costs you.
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pirate
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Jan 21, 2019 12:44:16 GMT
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Post by pirate on Jan 21, 2019 12:44:16 GMT
What is the point of having any creative players in the centre if the ball bypasses the midfield with Lockyer and Craig's aimless long ball punts forward? I can't seeing it being much different with 'ball-playing' centre halves in GC's system (if there even is one). The punts forward may be a bit more accurate but the ball would keep coming back to the centre halves from the midfield.
I know we weren't playing well at the end of DC's reign but the centre halves were definitely not making as many long punts forward which indicates it could be a lot down to GC's system/tactics.
Which is one of the reasons I thought we might struggle to sign good quality youngsters from above. Managers want to send players into an environment where they will improve and develop and you aren't going to do that when they are seemingly being sent out to play long ball stuff. As Benitez said recently when discussing a loan for Elias Sorensen: "But sometimes it is a risk as you don't know how they will train with the other team. "If you have players under your control you know exactly what you are looking for. "You can improve them. "When they go to any division or any team they have to compete to win and they (the other club) forget about the development of the player. "You have to find the balance and that is the key for us."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 12:47:46 GMT
I have watched this six times and still cannot believe that a. Bonham didn’t come and claim the ball and b. Lockyer was facing the away supporters. Whether he was trying to block the Wycombe player I don’t know but it was soft defending alround. To concede from a straightforward corner like that is disappointing. The lack of goals are a worry but poor defending has cost us more. A quick look at our goal difference makes that statement look silly. IIRC Bonham is/was top of the stats charts for keepers in the entire football league which suggests there isn't a lot of defending going on...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 13:01:31 GMT
A quick look at our goal difference makes that statement look silly. Not really. Our goal difference has no relevance, where does it factor in a game costing error? How many points have been dropped because of an individual mistake or error? Many games this season and last come to think of it, had 0.0 written all over them until a defensive error cost us the game. Not scoring doesn’t win you games obviously but an error leading to a goal certainly costs you. We have made the same amount of mistakes at the back as luton who are 2nd.
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Terrible
Jan 21, 2019 13:54:08 GMT
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 21, 2019 13:54:08 GMT
I have watched this six times and still cannot believe that a. Bonham didn’t come and claim the ball and b. Lockyer was facing the away supporters. Whether he was trying to block the Wycombe player I don’t know but it was soft defending alround. To concede from a straightforward corner like that is disappointing. The lack of goals are a worry but poor defending has cost us more. A quick look at our goal difference makes that statement look silly. A quick look at our league position makes that statement look silly.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Jan 21, 2019 14:00:11 GMT
I think it's possible, by this stage of the season, to look at the stats and have that give a decent indication of where a team's strengths lie in regard to attacking and defending. eg, Doncaster (51-37) are one place above Blackpool (27-25), I haven't watched these teams, but I would imagine it's safe to say that Doncaster's attacking is better than Blackpool's while Blackpool have been relying on their defence.
Similarly if you look at Rochdale (35-59) and us (25-30) you could make a decent guess where our biggest problem is, and where Rochdale's is.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 14:10:40 GMT
I think it's possible, by this stage of the season, to look at the stats and have that give a decent indication of where a team's strengths lie in regard to attacking and defending. eg, Doncaster (51-37) are one place above Blackpool (27-25), I haven't watched these teams, but I would imagine it's safe to say that Doncaster's attacking is better than Blackpool's while Blackpool have been relying on their defence. Similarly if you look at Rochdale (35-59) and us (25-30) you could make a decent guess where our biggest problem is, and where Rochdale's is. So what you are trying to say is, after looking at the stats you have concluded that we don't score enough goals?
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Jan 21, 2019 14:11:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 14:11:37 GMT
Not really. Our goal difference has no relevance, where does it factor in a game costing error? How many points have been dropped because of an individual mistake or error? Many games this season and last come to think of it, had 0.0 written all over them until a defensive error cost us the game. Not scoring doesn’t win you games obviously but an error leading to a goal certainly costs you. We have made the same amount of mistakes at the back as luton who are 2nd. That may well be so but how many mistakes were made at 2.0 which still lead to a 2.1 win? 3.0 up and Luton won 3.2 after making two errors like we did on Saturday? Just another side to the coin as to why we are up sh** creek that’s all I’m getting at.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Jan 21, 2019 14:24:16 GMT
I think it's possible, by this stage of the season, to look at the stats and have that give a decent indication of where a team's strengths lie in regard to attacking and defending. eg, Doncaster (51-37) are one place above Blackpool (27-25), I haven't watched these teams, but I would imagine it's safe to say that Doncaster's attacking is better than Blackpool's while Blackpool have been relying on their defence. Similarly if you look at Rochdale (35-59) and us (25-30) you could make a decent guess where our biggest problem is, and where Rochdale's is. So what you are trying to say is, after looking at the stats you have concluded that we don't score enough goals? No, that's not what I was saying.
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Terrible
Jan 21, 2019 14:27:22 GMT
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Post by axegas on Jan 21, 2019 14:27:22 GMT
A quick look at our goal difference makes that statement look silly. A quick look at our league position makes that statement look silly. You could concede 1 goal every 5 games but if you never score you’ll go down. It’s clear where our problems lie and it’s not through our central defenders.
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Terrible
Jan 21, 2019 14:42:03 GMT
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 21, 2019 14:42:03 GMT
A quick look at our league position makes that statement look silly. You could concede 1 goal every 5 games but if you never score you’ll go down. It’s clear where our problems lie and it’s not through our central defenders. I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. Our biggest and most pressing issue is scoring. All people are saying is that we still have a mistake in us at that back.
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