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Post by mehewmagic on Mar 13, 2019 20:55:00 GMT
Spot on but you watch the game and read it, too many of our fans look at how many we have conceded and can’t work out the attacking side of the team has been held back to defend. Since Nicholls joined us he spent the majority of his time with us outside of the box and out on the wing defending. Cureton would simply have refused to play in this role as would Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler’s, poachers and fox in the boxes. When do you ever see Nicholls getting a ball like this We are set up so defensive because Cogs knows that the defence can’t defend for 90 minutes, we are too small and not dominant enough. But isn't that also down to the fact Nichols has no real interest in getting into the box? Although it was noticeable JCH spent most of the second half on Tuesday looking for the ball deep/out wide rather than leading the line higher up the pitch. Yes and it's working well 😂 He now is not expected to shoot and therefore not expected to score. And Christ does he look better for that, and everyone can relax a bit. As we've all said before it is all about tactics, team work, partnerships etc. We've found something that helps him .
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Post by mehewmagic on Mar 13, 2019 21:05:10 GMT
The state of some comments on here is why most 'normal' supporters find this forum a total embarrassment. To think we have people totally disregarding the fact that we have had one of the best defensive records all season, also ignoring the fact that both Lockyer & Craig are virtual ever presents, not hiding, and putting in 100% each week, and now playing a key part in our improved record. Instead the demand is for a strong tall centre half...never mind if they are any good, have no pace and cannot defend against the modern forward!! You have one person even quoting name and height statistics...absolutely pathetic. I have no doubt the same t*ssers were saying Lee Brown was past his best and over the hill at 27.....and who is now an ever present for a team at the top end of this league! I notice with our recent run of results, comments are softening.....but the underlying negativity remains and for an absolute legend such as Lockyer, that is a disgrace. Au contraire, I'd suggest maybe you haven't read enough of it as several people have eloquently given their reasons for what they believe and why. I doubt anyone can argue that we have let in relatively few goals partly because we don't have much going forward and protect the back five more than some teams. Quelle surprise. If we could get both ends of the pitch right AT THE SAME TIME I doubt we would have been in the bottom 6 for much of the season. And BTW, using that sort of language and hyperbole to berate fans doesn't seem at all helpful or progressive.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 21:57:38 GMT
I went last night. In the main the defence were solid. Craig played well and him and Lockyer marshalled a strong forward line very well. Fair play to them both, I can call when players have good games and bad, and last night they were very good. However we are 37 games into a season, we are 3 points off the drop, and the reason we are down there is because we have been pretty poor in most games. Yes it’s because we haven’t scored enough up top but mainly that’s because our defensive tactics mean our strikers don’t get into goal scoring areas as much as they drop deep to pick up possession. We need a change of tack now for next year. This year there are times where it’s really been highlighted we need to change the low press tactics, get some width onto the pitch and have a taller, ball playing centre half. Like it or not, Craig gets turned far too easily and isn’t as fast as he used to be, to be top 12 in L1 that’s an immeasurable area to improve. Just an immeadiate area for improvement is to reduce our midfielders and get some wingers in. We lack balance and if we address it with the right personnel we can have a much better year next year. I don't agree with all of this but it's a really well reasoned argument. Craig can't go on forever, of course, but I do think we might be expecting a bit much to find a tall, ball playing centre half who also needs to be able to marshall a defence and has the experience and know how that he does. Other centre halves have some of these qualities, but finding one who has them all (and is therefore an upgrade on TC) in League 1 may be optimistic. The last left sided centre half we had who was as good or better was probably Steve Elliott, and that's a lot of centre halves. We were 13th last season and only a point or two from that now, so Tony Craig in a top 12 League 1 side doesn't seem that unrealistic to me. I'm being facetious of course, as I presume you are referring to us challenging for a play off spot. But is that realistic for a club in our position? I'm not sure it is. I do agree about the need for some quality out wide though. Kyle Bennett has had a very poor season for us, however I do wonder whether he may have benefited from playing alongside THD. My wishlist for strengthening next season would be a goalkeeper (Bonham would be fine but I don't see it happening), a right back to compete with James Clarke, a creative midfielder if the manager has no faith in Chris Lines, a left winger and a back up target man.
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Post by madgas on Mar 13, 2019 22:22:03 GMT
I’ve always backed this defence- even early on.
I think the original chart is interesting but not necessarily the makings of a good defender...
Keeping shape and picking the battles is far more key. Than purely being a winner yourself. I’d say this is where our guys (forgetting donny at home) are great.
It’s easier to win many jewels if you play willing to spun. Touch wood we largely don’t.
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Post by tinner on Mar 17, 2019 16:30:18 GMT
Lets not forget the ridicoulous and frankly embarrasing shouts through this thread. We now have the 4th best defensive record in the league, but of course plenty of better players out there aren't there??!!!
Meanwhile, I notice Broadbent is a sub for a mid table 2 Div side, but of course because he is tall, and ex army, he is a far better option than are existing centre halfs!
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 17, 2019 17:11:24 GMT
Lockyer and Craig very good yesterday. Kept Taylor and Vetokele quiet all game.
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 17, 2019 19:03:48 GMT
This is a thread which will probably run and run and then be bumped if we still have TL and TC next season and we start slowly. When we were near the bottom it was an argument that could be made and some have made good arguments against the pair, comments from others just came over as the pair being made scapegoats. After the last month it is much more difficult to take it seriously. Our CHs have been our most reliable and consistently good players in a poorish season.
Now the argument has switched to the reason for our very successful defence being the way the team players with a defensive midfield and a “low press” system of playing. And some have made a good argument. So it’s not our defence who we need to thank but the way we’ve been set up. No doubt the way we are set up does affect how we play and it will be part of the reason but the main reason for our good defensive record is the players who have kept the clean sheets and kept the against column down to 37 goals. And that means TL and TC and others esp JB. Well done GC, our defensive coach before becoming manager and the players who’ve made sure we have the potentially best defensive record for over 20 years. Long way to go but it certainly looks better on the 17th March than it did on the 17th February! UTG!
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 17, 2019 20:45:50 GMT
Lockyer and Craig very good yesterday. Kept Taylor and Vetokele quiet all game. They did. Still sat too deep all game and Craig did get turned a couple of times and had to rely on Micheal Kelly to bail him out. In fact one of the funniest moments of the second half was when he shouted “quick mike get behind me” after realising he had been turned and could recover.
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Post by mehewmagic on Mar 17, 2019 20:46:49 GMT
Lets not forget the ridicoulous and frankly embarrasing shouts through this thread. We now have the 4th best defensive record in the league, but of course plenty of better players out there aren't there??!!! Meanwhile, I notice Broadbent is a sub for a mid table 2 Div side, but of course because he is tall, and ex army, he is a far better option than are existing centre halfs! Surely you realise that your sweeping sarcasm is just as bad as the sweeping criticism that some people have used? Surely the reality is somewhere in the middle? And Elmore Leonard said you should only use two or three exclamation marks in 100,000 words. You've used yours in one paragraph.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 17, 2019 20:52:44 GMT
Lets not forget the ridicoulous and frankly embarrasing shouts through this thread. We now have the 4th best defensive record in the league, but of course plenty of better players out there aren't there??!!! Meanwhile, I notice Broadbent is a sub for a mid table 2 Div side, but of course because he is tall, and ex army, he is a far better option than are existing centre halfs! Surely you realise that your sweeping sarcasm is just as bad as the sweeping criticism that some people have used? Surely the reality is somewhere in the middle? And Elmore Leonard said you should only use two or three exclamation marks in 100,000 words. You've used yours in one paragraph. Wasn't he that Red puppet off Seaseme Street?
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Post by markczgas on Mar 17, 2019 22:03:24 GMT
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 17, 2019 22:14:02 GMT
Lockyer and Craig very good yesterday. Kept Taylor and Vetokele quiet all game. They did. Still sat too deep all game and Craig did get turned a couple of times and had to rely on Micheal Kelly to bail him out. In fact one of the funniest moments of the second half was when he shouted “quick mike get behind me” after realising he had been turned and could recover. Come on 1981 that’s what teams do they help each other out isn’t it? It’s what makes them a team. Glad he had the foresight to realise that. Look I appreciate the different views and the truth, as ever, is somewhere in the middle. I know that TC and TL have been the one reliable area of our team all season and in a way the glue that has kept our team together during the worst parts of the season. UTG!
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 17, 2019 22:16:28 GMT
Lets not forget the ridicoulous and frankly embarrasing shouts through this thread. We now have the 4th best defensive record in the league, but of course plenty of better players out there aren't there??!!! Meanwhile, I notice Broadbent is a sub for a mid table 2 Div side, but of course because he is tall, and ex army, he is a far better option than are existing centre halfs! Surely you realise that your sweeping sarcasm is just as bad as the sweeping criticism that some people have used? Surely the reality is somewhere in the middle? And Elmore Leonard said you should only use two or three exclamation marks in 100,000 words. You've used yours in one paragraph. Thanks MM, I knew someone famous said it but I’d forgotten who. Good man.😉 UTG!
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 17, 2019 22:32:46 GMT
Our CH's seem to be doing something right given our that current form post the Sunderland away game, GC's first in charge, only the top 2 sides have conceded fewer goals overall, no team as conceded fewer away goals. Attachment Deleted
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Post by markczgas on Mar 17, 2019 23:23:22 GMT
Our CH's seem to be doing something right given our that current form post the Sunderland away game, GC's first in charge, only the top 2 sides have conceded fewer goals overall, no team as conceded fewer away goals. Looking at that shows how tough some of our games are going to be :Luton and Barnsley at Home, and Plymouth, Cov and Donnie Away. Kind of excited though too. UTG !
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Post by noblegas on Mar 17, 2019 23:34:39 GMT
Seriously, i just don't get it. 'Craig gets turned too easily'?! Look at the stats- our fantastic defensive record over the whole season is not because we have played defensive midfielders every match. Lockyer and Craig have saved our bacon and still people on here aren't satisfied. As I said, i just don't understand it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 0:18:38 GMT
The state of some comments on here is why most 'normal' supporters find this forum a total embarrassment. To think we have people totally disregarding the fact that we have had one of the best defensive records all season, also ignoring the fact that both Lockyer & Craig are virtual ever presents, not hiding, and putting in 100% each week, and now playing a key part in our improved record. Instead the demand is for a strong tall centre half...never mind if they are any good, have no pace and cannot defend against the modern forward!! You have one person even quoting name and height statistics...absolutely pathetic. I have no doubt the same t*ssers were saying Lee Brown was past his best and over the hill at 27.....and who is now an ever present for a team at the top end of this league! I notice with our recent run of results, comments are softening.....but the underlying negativity remains and for an absolute legend such as Lockyer, that is a disgrace. Totally agree,laughable that posters are now having to come up with all sorts of convoluted reasons why craig/lockyer only appear to be ok because of the way we set up. Time and again this season lockyer and craig have come out on top against good strikers like eaves,ched evans,the big blackpool boy and lyle taylor in one to one battles in the air and on the deck. They are not perfect but they are good players and if lockyer is out of contract at the end of the season it will be a miracle if we somehow keep hold of him.
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Post by Qatar Gas on Mar 18, 2019 4:46:05 GMT
When was the last time we had a defence as solid as now? Without looking at our stats, I am guessing we still conceded more goals during our last two promotion seasons? Just a shame that until a few weeks ago we were having one of our worst ever seasons in terms of scoring goals!
I guess this thread will come in use again come the end of the season because the way Lockyer is playing we will have a tough time keeping hold of him.
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Post by lympstonegas on Mar 18, 2019 8:18:07 GMT
In no way meaning to disrespectful to DC (I was one of his biggest fans) but you have to wonder where we would be now if GC had been in charge from the start of this season. Plymouth away will be tough as it as ways is there but I have every faith we will go there and not concede and win. When was the last you felt that confident
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Post by markczgas on Mar 18, 2019 8:39:05 GMT
When was the last time we had a defence as solid as now? Without looking at our stats, I am guessing we still conceded more goals during our last two promotion seasons? Just a shame that until a few weeks ago we were having one of our worst ever seasons in terms of scoring goals! I guess this thread will come in use again come the end of the season because the way Lockyer is playing we will have a tough time keeping hold of him. All the way back to Twentyman and Yates I reckon.
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