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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 15:36:39 GMT
I know, nobody answered then either lol because it's a pointless question isn't it. Your assertion that there may be progress happening behind the scenes is that noone can prove that there isn't. We can all make up our own minds though in the interim, like I said I don't feel I've been proved wrong yet that they can't do anything with the state of the club. Prove me wrong DS, I'm waiting.....
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Post by daniel300380 on Apr 26, 2019 15:48:27 GMT
I know, nobody answered then either lol because it's a pointless question isn't it. Your assertion that there may be progress happening behind the scenes is that noone can prove that there isn't. Most on here are saying because they can't see progress, none is happening. I'm making the point that might not be the case. I'm not saying something is happening. Just loads are making out they know nothing is happening. When they don't know that at all. Personally I think they have been looking at other sites, but I also think they are open to selling the club. For a start the club would be easier to sell, if we had plans for a new stadium. Unless they have a buyer, I can't see them increasing the wage budget and increasing the debt every season, unless they were looking at a way at ways to dramatically increase our turnover long term. I'm 50/50 on the board at the moment. But I can admit it could go either way. I could argue a case for our against them. I'm not making out it's 100% and I must be right like some lol.
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Post by Gassy on Apr 26, 2019 15:57:54 GMT
Then he shouldn't comment on it then. I haven't criticised GC's managerial skills, coaching skills or management skills. I commented on a comment that he never should have said, because quite frankly - it was a stupid thing to say, and that deserves being criticised for that. I disagree DC allowed himself to get distracted. You think he focused on stadium/training ground over playing football? Really? Sorry, but that is also absolutely ridiculous & very unfair on the man who took us from the 5th division to the 3rd Blimey, now you’re trying to tell a manager what he can and can’t say! Why shouldn’t he have said it if he believes it? As for DC, look at any of my posts and you would see that I supported him 100% and thought he did a great job and was one of the posters who thought he should not leave. Like you I thought DC was one of our best but I also think GC has done an outstanding job over 5 months to be within touching distance of safety with the limitations of the squad he inherited. And to criticise him is being equally unfair imo, anyone could see that after taking over GC was trying to in-still a confidence in the club and to refocus issues onto the football and away from the off field issues that DC had focused on. Any new manager would have done something similar. But to say that the ground and training ground issues were not distracting DC is to live in cloud cuckoo land, the off the field issues were a clear distraction and deflected DC in the final months, like it or not. And that is not being unfair on the man just stating what I and many others thought was obvious. UTG! Not at all. Where have I said what he can and cannot comment on? I was saying he shouldn’t. Like when Trump comments on something he shouldn’t, that’s all. As said above, I haven’t criticized GC on any of his talents as a manager, I merely pointed out his comments, which are open for critique. As are his managerial skills btw, that’s part and parcel of the job. Anyway, I’ve always respected you as a poster so don’t want to get into an argument over little things. 3 points tomorrow & GC can say whatever he f*cking wants lol
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 26, 2019 16:03:24 GMT
because it's a pointless question isn't it. Your assertion that there may be progress happening behind the scenes is that noone can prove that there isn't. Whereas the assertion that Dwane is just arsing about doing nothing and has no plans or any ambition for us, and is just burning £1M+ per year for no reason, is empirically provable by anyone with a chemistry set and a Bunsen burner. Hilarious. The question was about substantial progress behind the scenes. I guess whether you consider burning 1m a year to be substantial progress behind the scenes or not is a matter of individual interpretation isn't it.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Apr 26, 2019 16:17:34 GMT
Whereas the assertion that Dwane is just arsing about doing nothing and has no plans or any ambition for us, and is just burning £1M+ per year for no reason, is empirically provable by anyone with a chemistry set and a Bunsen burner. Hilarious. The question was about substantial progress behind the scenes. I guess whether you consider burning 1m a year to be substantial progress behind the scenes or not is a matter of individual interpretation isn't it. No, I'm referring to the practice of demanding evidence when it's something one disagrees with, but not giving a toss about evidence when one wants to give their own speculative opinion.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 26, 2019 16:35:46 GMT
Hilarious. The question was about substantial progress behind the scenes. I guess whether you consider burning 1m a year to be substantial progress behind the scenes or not is a matter of individual interpretation isn't it. No, I'm referring to the practice of demanding evidence when it's something one disagrees with, but not giving a toss about evidence when one wants to give their own speculative opinion. My evidence is that so far since their takeover, there actually has been no substantial progress behind the scenes. What's yours to the contrary?
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Apr 26, 2019 16:52:50 GMT
No, I'm referring to the practice of demanding evidence when it's something one disagrees with, but not giving a toss about evidence when one wants to give their own speculative opinion. My evidence is that so far since their takeover, there actually has been no substantial progress behind the scenes. What's yours to the contrary? Worse than no progress they’ve actually wasted the planning permissions we had. They’ve also not developed the training ground or the Mem as promised. They have employed two people to run the club at the same time and wasted money on this and other people we don’t need substantially increasing the debts. Whilst on the playing side we have a team barely fit for purpose and a manager with no previous experience.
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Post by daniel300380 on Apr 26, 2019 16:56:11 GMT
No, I'm referring to the practice of demanding evidence when it's something one disagrees with, but not giving a toss about evidence when one wants to give their own speculative opinion. My evidence is that so far since their takeover, there actually has been no substantial progress behind the scenes. What's yours to the contrary? We have improved our coaching and back room team including medical staff. Made improvements to the bars and club shop. Doubled our sponsorship deals, increasing our budget. Have more activities for families, on match days. We now have a development squad. Won awards for our season ticket marketing campaign, this year's is pretty good as well. Mainly minor things, but all would suggest they are still interested. Especially seeing as though they hired a CEO, after we were told they were not spending any more money, by those in the know! Why spend more money on his wages, if he has nothing to do?? There is more to suggest things are going on, than there is to suggest, nothing is happening behind the scenes. We were told they would not spend any more money, that they were not doing anything. Since then they increased the budget and hired a CEO.
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Post by singupgas on Apr 26, 2019 17:06:52 GMT
I admire peoples admiration of the board. But things being listed are probably what any other professional football club does.
And of course it's not just Waels fault we are where we are, you can include previous chairmen for not delivering new stadium or continually inproving Bristol Rovers. It has always been the case. But now and after real hope in the opportunity UWE offered and its collapse we are now desperate and getting impatient.
However Until Wael had NH styles photoshop hold a an oversize blank piece of paper on a plot of land we have acquired for the purpose building rovers a new home, Rovers will forever struggle to progress.
The longer it takes wael to find a new home, the longer the family is watering money up the wall whilst we are at the mem.
Being a football club battling to stay in league 1 and being happy with it because that where have been historically been in the ladder is not progress. Everything about the club is stale.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 26, 2019 17:07:40 GMT
My evidence is that so far since their takeover, there actually has been no substantial progress behind the scenes. What's yours to the contrary? We have improved our coaching and back room team including medical staff. Made improvements to the bars and club shop. Doubled our sponsorship deals, increasing our budget. Have more activities for families, on match days. We now have a development squad. Won awards for our season ticket marketing campaign, this year's is pretty good as well. Mainly minor things, but all would suggest they are still interested. Especially seeing as though they hired a CEO, after we were told they were not spending any more money, by those in the know! Why spend more money on his wages, if he has nothing to do?? There is more to suggest things are going on, than there is to suggest, nothing is happening behind the scenes. We were told they would not spend any more money, that they were not doing anything. Since then they increased the budget and hired a CEO. I sincerely see none of that as substantial. It only looks it because of the shoddy way the club was run before.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 26, 2019 17:11:47 GMT
No, I'm referring to the practice of demanding evidence when it's something one disagrees with, but not giving a toss about evidence when one wants to give their own speculative opinion. My evidence is that so far since their takeover, there actually has been no substantial progress behind the scenes. What's yours to the contrary? That's demonstrably untrue though isn't it. Sponsorship, Shop, Bars, food, Development Squad, backroom staff, paperless ticketing, covered seating for families (no laughing at the back), reconditioning of the South Stand and a new South West tent, are all all "background" activities and all are an improvement on what we had before. Yes, there is no visible progress on the stadium or training ground, but it can quite fairly be argued that given there has been some visible progress at the club, there is every likelihood that there could be more to come. There is more evidence to suggest they have moved us forward than they have done nothing, but because the "big 2" haven't yet happend everyone wants to get on the board bashing bandwagon. I'm not defending the board and nor am I condemning those who have no trust in the current custodians, but when people put forward arguments to support their negative view, it's only fair that they at least are presented with a reasonable counter argument that it's entirety possible it's not as bad as some would like us to believe.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 26, 2019 17:19:20 GMT
My evidence is that so far since their takeover, there actually has been no substantial progress behind the scenes. What's yours to the contrary? That's demonstrably untrue though isn't it. Sponsorship, Shop, Bars, food, Development Squad, backroom staff, paperless ticketing, covered seating for families (no laughing at the back), reconditioning of the South Stand and a new South West tent, are all all "background" activities and all are an improvement on what we had before. Yes, there is no visible progress on the stadium or training ground, but it can quite fairly be argued that given there has been some visible progress at the club, there is every likelihood that there could be more to come. There is more evidence to suggest they have moved us forward than they have done nothing, but because the "big 2" haven't yet happend everyone wants to get on the board bashing bandwagon. I'm not defending the board and nor am I condemning those who have no trust in the current custodians, but when people put forward arguments to support their negative view, it's only fair that they at least are presented with a reasonable counter argument that it's entirety possible it's not as bad as some would like us to believe. No see I disagree with you I dont think any of this is substantial. They have brought the club towards the correct century but I see nothing substantial myself. Still have an unsustainable financial model still have no stadium still no decent training ground. New tent and paperless ticketing isn't going to see us alright for the next 10 years. What you could arguably suggest is that there is some investment in the memorial stadium with the above plus screen etc but I'd suggest that is actually not a good thing longer term.
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 26, 2019 17:20:22 GMT
My evidence is that so far since their takeover, there actually has been no substantial progress behind the scenes. What's yours to the contrary? We have improved our coaching and back room team including medical staff. Made improvements to the bars and club shop. Doubled our sponsorship deals, increasing our budget. Have more activities for families, on match days. We now have a development squad. Won awards for our season ticket marketing campaign, this year's is pretty good as well. Mainly minor things, but all would suggest they are still interested. Especially seeing as though they hired a CEO, after we were told they were not spending any more money, by those in the know! Why spend more money on his wages, if he has nothing to do?? There is more to suggest things are going on, than there is to suggest, nothing is happening behind the scenes. We were told they would not spend any more money, that they were not doing anything. Since then they increased the budget and hired a CEO. Martyn Starnes replaced the previous Financial DIrector Steve Brookfield plus it seems Steve Hamer has now been pushed aside, so I doubt any extra wages are being paid if they are it's probably minimal compared to the overall wage bill of £3m+. What's not clear is how the club can continue to keep incurring £1m/2m annual losses with no obvious plans to control them.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 26, 2019 17:25:25 GMT
That's demonstrably untrue though isn't it. Sponsorship, Shop, Bars, food, Development Squad, backroom staff, paperless ticketing, covered seating for families (no laughing at the back), reconditioning of the South Stand and a new South West tent, are all all "background" activities and all are an improvement on what we had before. Yes, there is no visible progress on the stadium or training ground, but it can quite fairly be argued that given there has been some visible progress at the club, there is every likelihood that there could be more to come. There is more evidence to suggest they have moved us forward than they have done nothing, but because the "big 2" haven't yet happend everyone wants to get on the board bashing bandwagon. I'm not defending the board and nor am I condemning those who have no trust in the current custodians, but when people put forward arguments to support their negative view, it's only fair that they at least are presented with a reasonable counter argument that it's entirety possible it's not as bad as some would like us to believe. No see I disagree with you I dont think any of this is substantial. They have brought the club towards the correct century but I see nothing substantial myself. Still have an unsustainable financial model still have no stadium still no decent training ground. New tent and paperless ticketing isn't going to see us alright for the next 10 years. What you could arguably suggest is that there is some investment in the memorial stadium with the above plus screen etc but I'd suggest that is actually not a good thing longer term. No, it's not substantial, I agree. That's not the point I'm making. Your position is they won't do anything substantial because there is no evidence of it. Most people seem to hold that view. What I'm saying is that is arguably unreasonable because they have a current and demonstrable history of identifying a need and improving/rectifying it, albeit on a smaller, less substantial scale.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 26, 2019 17:28:58 GMT
No see I disagree with you I dont think any of this is substantial. They have brought the club towards the correct century but I see nothing substantial myself. Still have an unsustainable financial model still have no stadium still no decent training ground. New tent and paperless ticketing isn't going to see us alright for the next 10 years. What you could arguably suggest is that there is some investment in the memorial stadium with the above plus screen etc but I'd suggest that is actually not a good thing longer term. No, it's not substantial, I agree. That's not the point I'm making. Your position is they won't do anything substantial because there is no evidence of it. Most people seem to hold that view. What I'm saying is that is arguably unreasonable because they have a current and demonstrable history of identifying a need and improving/rectifying it, albeit on a smaller, less substantial scale. Well I guess that's like flicking 200 heads in a row and arguing that theres just as likely a chance of a tail next time. Many would argue that's the odds, I would argue the coin is weighted I seem to recall there was a lot of talk recently about a takeover that fell through. I seem to recall that Waels interview lent some credence to that. My logic then suggests that they are looking for low level investment to minimise losses whilst they look for real investment or a sale. Not significant long term investment. It's all speculation but it's a forum after all.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 26, 2019 17:34:00 GMT
Unless they can source that significant investment from elsewhere of course
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Apr 26, 2019 17:34:58 GMT
No, I'm referring to the practice of demanding evidence when it's something one disagrees with, but not giving a toss about evidence when one wants to give their own speculative opinion. My evidence is that so far since their takeover, there actually has been no substantial progress behind the scenes. What's yours to the contrary? Ok, I deleted my previous post, coz I think I know what you're talking about now. I wasn't talking about any of that, I was just making the general observation that people are keen to ask for evidence when others are just speculating, but are happy to speculate themselves. I wasn't asking you for evidence. And your evidence isn't really evidence in any case. And I am not even saying that there is stuff happening, and you've already said that if stuff were happening then there wouldn't be any evidence of it, so it's a bit bizarre to ask me for evidence you already say doesn't exist to support something I never said.
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Post by aghast on Apr 26, 2019 17:37:33 GMT
I've lost count of the number of senior staff and advisors who've been appointed and moved on since Wael took over, with Steve Hamer perhaps the latest.
Whether they jumped or were pushed, it doesn't look as if everything has been rosy in the corridors of power.
Since the whole of Wael's time here has been a mixture of raised expectations and dashed hopes, I don't suppose it's very surprising that we have a revolving door policy at the top.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 26, 2019 17:45:26 GMT
My evidence is that so far since their takeover, there actually has been no substantial progress behind the scenes. What's yours to the contrary? Ok, I deleted my previous post, coz I think I know what you're talking about now. I wasn't talking about any of that, I was just making the general observation that people are keen to ask for evidence when others are just speculating, but are happy to speculate themselves. I wasn't asking you for evidence. And your evidence isn't really evidence in any case. And I am not even saying that there is stuff happening, and you've already said that if stuff were happening then there wouldn't be any evidence of it, so it's a bit bizarre to ask me for evidence you already say doesn't exist to support something I never said. So call it speculation then and leave me alone
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Post by daniel300380 on Apr 26, 2019 17:45:59 GMT
We have improved our coaching and back room team including medical staff. Made improvements to the bars and club shop. Doubled our sponsorship deals, increasing our budget. Have more activities for families, on match days. We now have a development squad. Won awards for our season ticket marketing campaign, this year's is pretty good as well. Mainly minor things, but all would suggest they are still interested. Especially seeing as though they hired a CEO, after we were told they were not spending any more money, by those in the know! Why spend more money on his wages, if he has nothing to do?? There is more to suggest things are going on, than there is to suggest, nothing is happening behind the scenes. We were told they would not spend any more money, that they were not doing anything. Since then they increased the budget and hired a CEO. Martyn Starnes replaced the previous Financial DIrector Steve Brookfield plus it seems Steve Hamer has now been pushed aside, so I doubt any extra wages are being paid if they are it's probably minimal compared to the overall wage bill of £3m+. What's not clear is how the club can continue to keep incurring £1m/2m annual losses with no obvious plans to control them. I agree, only way we can keep going long term and move forward is to build a new stadium and other facilities to bring in extra revenue. Which is why I think they must be working on something. Otherwise they would have cut costs, not increased them. They have brought in more money, so could easily have cut the budget, so we didn't lose as much money. Instead they kept it at the allowed amount, increasing the budget. Or so we have been told, although the accounts have not actually come out yet lol
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