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Post by socrates on May 29, 2019 0:00:12 GMT
If Cogs gets us playing route one attacking football and we’re challenging for the play offs come next April then there will be very few complaining. I think many have complained over the last few months because we were sh**ting ourselves that we were going to be relegated at the time and it wasn’t pretty to watch. If his first game had been our first of the season then we’d have been top after four games and probably just outside the play offs come our most recent game, not too bad. JCH wonder goals of course made the difference but he had what he had to work with. How our summer recruitment goes will have a massive bearing on whether we can create more chances with pace and creativity next season or have to once again rely on wonder goals from one player. If it’s the latter then he will be sacked by Christmas along with JCH sold for hopefully big money ( no idea how long he signed for). It's pointless to speculate on how it would have been had Coughlan had the whole season because it's fair to say that crap teams fly under the radar. If we had been at the top end of the table we would have been taken far more seriously and that is why I'm not convinced Coughlan is the man for a team with any serious ambition in league one. It isn't the late 80's/early 90's anymore and when teams take you seriously at this level long ball football gets found out because it's rudimentary and playing percentages- giving up possession in the hope that you can win it back further up the pitch. Don't get me wrong, he did a good job to keep us up and I would be confident he could keep us up again playing that brand of football. But teams with better players will always be too smart for us. We struggled to beat sides in the top 6 under both he and DC and Doncaster in particular proved they are light years ahead of a Coughlan team in both thought and deed. We don't even have a pitch fit for long ball football so we will be playing half our games on a surface that helps the opposition to beat us as our home results under both DC and Coughlan attest! I have heard noises that he wants to play with pace etc but I'll believe it when I see it, as an old school centre back I really can't see him blossoming into the lower league Guardiola. We'll sign some big ugly bastards and look to hit the big lad up top early doors or punt it down the channels for someone to chase. Your sort of arguing my point and agreeing with me at the same time. From what I’ve seen so far and what he’s said he wants to do next season it sounds as if if we’re successful next season then it’ll be the Gerry Francis 1990 way, pace on the wings big bloke up top , striker and attacking midfielders feeding off him. Long direct with pace and a couple of big bastards at the back will keep us up if he gets them to gel right. I’m not demanding promotion next season. Top half will be a great season and successful in my opinion.
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Post by justin blue on May 29, 2019 8:24:48 GMT
Pretty fair assessment though we all know this club has no ambition let alone serious ambition. GC is limited by that as much as he is by his abilities as a manager. How do we know the owners have no ambition, I'm not sure they are spending £3m+ p.a. just for the sake of it, sacking DC at least showed some ambition. Fair enough those are my views and I shouldn't have said all others share them though I am sure some do. I don't agree that sacking DC showed ambition I just think for whatever reason it wasn't working and he had to go. Once again that is only my oppinion others opinions are available.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 9:19:10 GMT
How do we know the owners have no ambition, I'm not sure they are spending £3m+ p.a. just for the sake of it, sacking DC at least showed some ambition. Fair enough those are my views and I shouldn't have said all others share them though I am sure some do. I don't agree that sacking DC showed ambition I just think for whatever reason it wasn't working and he had to go. Once again that is only my oppinion others opinions are available. I agree, I’m not sure it showed ambition, I look the other way and say it showed insight, vision of the situation we were in and finally some wisdom from the board. They had no choice really, we were in free-fall losing 7 out of 10 games and the manager was making up excuses and talking about the club he apparently so badly loved. Like when a bloke leaves his wife with kids, he can do it dignified or he can slag her off to everyone down the pub and let’s be honest, DC was asking for the sack, he knew he ran out of ideas. Ambition to me is clubs like Villa and Derby, sacking managers when not in danger, you could say the same of Gillingham if Steve Evans does well with them.
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Post by chewbacca on May 29, 2019 11:23:48 GMT
This bit; "I look the other way and say it showed insight, vision of the situation we were in and finally some wisdom from the board. They had no choice."
Erm
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 12:26:58 GMT
This bit; "I look the other way and say it showed insight, vision of the situation we were in and finally some wisdom from the board. They had no choice."
Erm
And? What’s your opinion Terrence?
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Post by lpgas on May 29, 2019 12:39:50 GMT
Regarding DC he should have gone a few weeks before. If you looked at the previous season when we had Harrison we won 4 between February and the end of the season. Then it just carried on the following season with Payne rather than Harrison
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Post by chewbacca on May 29, 2019 12:42:37 GMT
This bit; "I look the other way and say it showed insight, vision of the situation we were in and finally some wisdom from the board. They had no choice."
Erm
And? What’s your opinion Terrence? I just don't think it showed "insight, vision and wisdom" if they had "no choice"...
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 13:00:36 GMT
And? What’s your opinion Terrence? I just don't think it showed "insight, vision and wisdom" if they had "no choice"...
Fair comment, by no choice I meant you can’t publicly hammer the business you are working for and your bosses and not face consequences. This is why I think he asked for the sack. Maybe you are right, no vision and wisdom at all.
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Post by chewbacca on May 29, 2019 13:06:38 GMT
I just don't think it showed "insight, vision and wisdom" if they had "no choice"...
Fair comment, by no choice I meant you can’t publicly hammer the business you are working for and your bosses and not face consequences. This is why I think he asked for the sack. Maybe you are right, no vision and wisdom at all. I don't think there's any real football planning at the club, you can see that by almost stumbling into Coughlan. I've said previously I'd like us to employ a Sporting Director/Director of Football to say "This is how we play football, these are the types of coaches we're going to employ all through the football club". The lurch from Clarke to Coughlan in styles proves their was no real plan. It's easier said than done with regards to setting up that sort of system but if a 5 year plan was brought in to shift the way the club carries out these things that would show vision and wisdom.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 14:26:28 GMT
I’ve met Martin Starnes before and I do believe he has vision and a lot of wisdom of working in football. I don’t think Hamer does though and I don’t know the ins and outs of why we have both.
All I do know is commercially we are run a lot better, you only have to look at the awards night, club bars and sponsorship. But then from a business being run side of it £3 million losses are terrible Terry but then the previous manager demanded a better budget (mid table). The issue is we don’t have a mid table ground bringing in money, we have a mid table fan base in attendances.
I took Charis May, you know her and a few others to the first game of the season as a guest of Peterborough United. They gave us a stadium tour and even though they have an outdated ground you can see how they bring in much more revenue than us on a match day.
I do think going forward now the club is in a better place, we’ve learned from a lot of mistakes and Martin Starnes is stream lining us. We only walked in Cogs because like any team who have just sacked a manager they need a caretaker. He took the same team and budget as the previous guy and took us to places like Oxford and got results, he deserved the job.
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Post by warehamgas on May 29, 2019 14:34:25 GMT
Fair comment, by no choice I meant you can’t publicly hammer the business you are working for and your bosses and not face consequences. This is why I think he asked for the sack. Maybe you are right, no vision and wisdom at all. I don't think there's any real football planning at the club, you can see that by almost stumbling into Coughlan. I've said previously I'd like us to employ a Sporting Director/Director of Football to say "This is how we play football, these are the types of coaches we're going to employ all through the football club". The lurch from Clarke to Coughlan in styles proves their was no real plan. It's easier said than done with regards to setting up that sort of system but if a 5 year plan was brought in to shift the way the club carries out these things that would show vision and wisdom. Good post. It’s a very good point re DOF who has a specific, defined role. Instead we appear to have a Chairman and CEO with no one being sure what their respective roles are. Now perhaps we don’t need to know but a defined DOF would make a lot of sense. However with the current accounts it would seem unlikely that extra non playing staff will be recruited and whilst I don’t disagree with that, the fact that GC has said we have to cut the staff makes it even less likely that we’ll be recruiting any DOF. When GC said that perhaps cutting the “chiefs” at the top might make a bit more sense. Presumably, but I don’t know for certain, Wael, the Chairman and the CEO are taking salaries out of the club. A bit ott and unnecessary at our level perhaps. Just seen roady’s reply and he seems to think Starnes is slowly turning us around which is good to hear. But still making losses with all these people at the top. I’m just a fan who hears and reads what’s put out. So, whatever improvements are going on communication from the club to the fan base is still hit and miss, if you’re among the selected few you know, if you’re not you probably know sod all. Hey ho! UTG!
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Post by spiess1 on May 29, 2019 14:36:04 GMT
So right Roady.
DC never got a result at Oxford.
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Post by wertongas on May 29, 2019 14:38:32 GMT
I’ve met Martin Starnes before and I do believe he has vision and a lot of wisdom of working in football. I don’t think Hamer does though and I don’t know the ins and outs of why we have both. All I do know is commercially we are run a lot better, you only have to look at the awards night, club bars and sponsorship. But then from a business being run side of it £3 million losses are terrible Terry but then the previous manager demanded a better budget (mid table). The issue is we don’t have a mid table ground bringing in money, we have a mid table fan base in attendances. I took Charis May, you know her and a few others to the first game of the season as a guest of Peterborough United. They gave us a stadium tour and even though they have an outdated ground you can see how they bring in much more revenue than us on a match day. I do think going forward now the club is in a better place, we’ve learned from a lot of mistakes and Martin Starnes is stream lining us. We only walked in Cogs because like any team who have just sacked a manager they need a caretaker. He took the same team and budget as the previous guy and took us to places like Oxford and got results, he deserved the job. I agree, I hope GC will be the next Gerry Francis and Starnes can get our books balanced , if you look at our accounts the problem lies with staffing , there needs to be cut backs and stream lining, last few years their has been an increase in the squad numbers and backroom staff this needs sorting and soon . I think our owners struggle with running a business in this country, UK is nothing like third world Jorden.
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Post by chewbacca on May 29, 2019 14:56:15 GMT
I’ve met Martin Starnes before and I do believe he has vision and a lot of wisdom of working in football. I don’t think Hamer does though and I don’t know the ins and outs of why we have both. All I do know is commercially we are run a lot better, you only have to look at the awards night, club bars and sponsorship. But then from a business being run side of it £3 million losses are terrible Terry but then the previous manager demanded a better budget (mid table). The issue is we don’t have a mid table ground bringing in money, we have a mid table fan base in attendances. I took Charis May, you know her and a few others to the first game of the season as a guest of Peterborough United. They gave us a stadium tour and even though they have an outdated ground you can see how they bring in much more revenue than us on a match day. I do think going forward now the club is in a better place, we’ve learned from a lot of mistakes and Martin Starnes is stream lining us. We only walked in Cogs because like any team who have just sacked a manager they need a caretaker. He took the same team and budget as the previous guy and took us to places like Oxford and got results, he deserved the job. The biggest issue the club currently has is the stadium, it was mothballed by previous boards and is frankly a disgrace. The current board cannot sit on their hands for a lot longer because it's a millstone around our neck. At the moment the club are essentially rolling sh** in glitter. The bars are still left empty in the week, the stadium use is currently once every fortnight through the season, it needs to be improved. A lick of paint only does so much.
Peterborough United are a club we should be looking at, smaller average attendances than us but investment in both the football and commercial side. They have one reasonably modern stand down one side of the ground completed in 1996 and one new end complete with offices that are rented out in 2014. I think they're looking to replace the London Road End before finally the Main Stand that I think you were in. Peterborough have a clear policy when it comes to players, they sign low and sell high, never let contracts run down, and that allows them to pooter along with losses of about half a million a year. Rovers will go nowhere with the current approach, we need to be proactive with all areas of the way the club is run.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 15:25:17 GMT
Very good post Terry and Peterborough should be an example to us.
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Post by gasheadliam on Aug 18, 2019 23:37:56 GMT
Nothing against you roady but remembered this thread.
Wonder how we are all feeling about this right now?
Can appreciate what he did last season but has gone against everything he proclaimed on Twentyman after the end of last season.
Another chancer who is out of his depth managing but can coach?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 23:42:16 GMT
Helluva bump this tbf Roady 👀😂
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 1:24:15 GMT
If Cogs gets us playing route one attacking football and we’re challenging for the play offs come next April then there will be very few complaining. I think many have complained over the last few months because we were sh**ting ourselves that we were going to be relegated at the time and it wasn’t pretty to watch. If his first game had been our first of the season then we’d have been top after four games and probably just outside the play offs come our most recent game, not too bad. JCH wonder goals of course made the difference but he had what he had to work with. How our summer recruitment goes will have a massive bearing on whether we can create more chances with pace and creativity next season or have to once again rely on wonder goals from one player. If it’s the latter then he will be sacked by Christmas along with JCH sold for hopefully big money ( no idea how long he signed for). It's pointless to speculate on how it would have been had Coughlan had the whole season because it's fair to say that crap teams fly under the radar. If we had been at the top end of the table we would have been taken far more seriously and that is why I'm not convinced Coughlan is the man for a team with any serious ambition in league one. It isn't the late 80's/early 90's anymore and when teams take you seriously at this level long ball football gets found out because it's rudimentary and playing percentages- giving up possession in the hope that you can win it back further up the pitch. Don't get me wrong, he did a good job to keep us up and I would be confident he could keep us up again playing that brand of football. But teams with better players will always be too smart for us. We struggled to beat sides in the top 6 under both he and DC and Doncaster in particular proved they are light years ahead of a Coughlan team in both thought and deed. We don't even have a pitch fit for long ball football so we will be playing half our games on a surface that helps the opposition to beat us as our home results under both DC and Coughlan attest! I have heard noises that he wants to play with pace etc but I'll believe it when I see it, as an old school centre back I really can't see him blossoming into the lower league Guardiola. We'll sign some big ugly bastards and look to hit the big lad up top early doors or punt it down the channels for someone to chase. For all those who criticise my negativity- I’m not far wrong so far am I?
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Post by rememberhalifax on Aug 19, 2019 6:22:01 GMT
Well I for one still appreciate GC, you can only do your best with what you have and he has to make do with a core of midfield players who are not good enough, DC had the same problem what ever combination was tried. Hope he is able to persuade a couple of quality players to come before end of window but if not he will ,as he has indicated, have to experiment with youth who can not do any worse than the those currently in possession of the shirts, if he does not do either then they will cost him his job, good luck GC, my own view? give the young ,hungry, players there chance!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 6:32:31 GMT
I went to Peterborough that first game of the season under Trollope after he was trying to sort us out after Atkins left the season before and we started like this. That day we were 3-0 at half time on the opening day and 17th in February and still went up.
Cogs has got my support still as long as he installs width into the side, drops the diamond and stops talking rubbish about going gung ho.
He deserves till the end of September, if we are bottom 4 then and still playing like this then I think he has to go. A lot of winnable games coming up, we have to believe Dunne and Mayer will inspire him and help the team as well.
Stick with Cogs .
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