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Post by lpgas on Jul 12, 2019 12:21:39 GMT
and don't forget Clive Walker, getting his knob out on the tube; and don't forget the claims made against Agogo and Harrison. No where are there a group of people that don't have skeletons, even priests, politicians who weasel their way out of things. I believe there is a paedo ring at Westminster, and the fact that there are 3 people locked up for no reason other than being a victim is scandalous.
And don't forget Peter Shilton either, caught in a car shagging, then the bird in EastEnders caught giving a blow job in a lay by on the A1. All these people still in employment or retired did they go to prison? that will be no then. The girl in the incident boasted that she would get a big pay out after Evans was put away, what does that say? Says to me if they had a paid he a few grand nothing would have been said. Ched Evans now wife is the daughter of a millionaire.
I would love for us to sign this innocent man.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2019 12:21:52 GMT
Actually just to add I think there is a bigger conversation to be had about what constitutes role model behaviour from a footballer.
If you have a player who trains hard, treats his body like a temple and is a model pro yet it is well known amongst the fan base that he likes cheating on his girlfriend after training and may have a ‘non-vanilla’ sex life does that mean he is any less of a role model for his dedication to his actual profession? You know, what he is being paid by the club to do? I personally think you can draw a clear distinction between their attitude to the game and their attitude to their private life. Others may argue that they are representing the club at all times and their moral code should match that of the club’s, I think that is a bit too controlling personally, so long as they are not physically hurting someone or breaking the law.
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 12, 2019 12:31:31 GMT
Gas 365, don’t disagree with most of what you’ve said. Fair enough you think it’s the legal stuff which should be the priority and if you’re innocent that’s all that matters. In legal terms you are correct, if you’re innocent then you should face no punishment. Others would say, as I said previously, that he’s guilty of acting in a way that many people would find unacceptable. That doesn’t and didn’t make it illegal but it will still provoke a reaction and make sure the “perpetrator” has to face up to people’s opinions and face the public distaste of how he acted. For most young people, or any people, in this position they are not in the public awareness to the extent that a footballer is so consequently footballers or any sportsmen face a much more public trial than others might. Probably not right but it is what it is and I guess famous footballers or sportsmen in the public eye have a greater responsibility to behave and are more vulnerable to bad publicity when they don’t. And in the end everyone owns their own behaviour and have to accept the repercussions that arise from it. UTG! Don’t get me wrong- I don’t agree with his actual conduct and it’s not the way I would choose to behave, but how someone chooses to live their life is their choice as long as they are acting within the boundaries of the law. Scumbags abound in football. Hell, in society itself. In a squad of 24 - 30 footballers are they all going to be nice lads that your daughter could bring home for tea? Bound to be at least one who likes to ‘pump and dump’ girls who could be your daughter- we just don’t get to hear about it. So I do struggle with the argument that footballers are role models and we should look to sign only players that are. As a previous poster said there would be precious few about if you were looking for squeaky clean characters.Look at the likes of Frank Lampard, he has built up a great image over the years yet he was part of the spit-roasting scandal many years ago. Ryan Giggs seemed very wholesome until he was caught shagging his brothers wife. The list is endless of low class behaviour from footballers, we don’t have to like it or approve but should we actively seek to avoid signing those who have indulged in it? We would be cutting off our nose to spite our face if we do and I suspect people’s objections are only based on the quality of player. Would anyone have objected to us signing Giggs if he had left Man U on a free despite what a morally bankrupt individual he is? Ched Evans is a lower league striker so a bit easier to write off in that sense, I suspect. Again, I agree with you so much. In our exchanges I have purposefully used the words I have and have been very selective in what I’ve said and have never use the phrase “role model” because I’m not saying that footballers should be that, nor am I saying BRFC should only sign players who are role models or who are squeaky clean. But being footballers in this day and age mean they are far more in the public eye than you or I (not that I know what you do!) and because of that become more vulnerable to bad publicity and need to be responsible about their behaviour. The guy is innocent in the legal sense of the term and that’s it. He should not be punished legally and deserved any compensation for the initial judgement. My point was that the public, me and you, don’t just look at the legal stuff, being a famous sportsman he will have to be tried, wrongly probably, in the public eye about his behaviour and that’s happened. People have opinions and being famous means your reputation follows you. As I said it might not be illegal but his behaviour has had repercussions on his career and he has to accept responsibility for it which it sounds as if he has. I dont think it was ever an option signing him because of the financial financial constraints we have. It was just GC knowing Wilder and people on here putting two and two together. We have a Sheff U striker on loan, just not the one people might have thought! I think CEs signing would have divided the fanbase. Just look at what this thread has done! Btw, had he signed, I would not have booed him or criticised him but quietly supported him as I do all players who wear the quarters.😉 UTG!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2019 13:16:53 GMT
Totally different scenario though, people’s lives were lost and families torn apart thanks to them. In fact I can’t even believe there is still a debate about Evans given how McCormack was able to resume his career given the lasting effects of his actions. They are always different scenarios, depending on the opinion you take, but they all have victims. I suspect families can be torn apart in lots of different ways, as I said it’s not black and white they are several shades of grey. But they all carry repercussions which the perpetrator has to face. UTG! Evans was more a participant than a perpetrator. As for victims who were they in this case? Was it the girl who went through the 'ordeal' but was still going about her routine of getting drunk and sleeping with two different men on a weekend just a fortnight after the Evans/McDonald incident? (As per evidence presented in the appeal) Or was Evans the victim after losing 2 1/2 years of his freedom for what turns out was a consensual sexual activity? And is still being punished now with his ability to carry out his occupation being limited due to moral high ground football fans!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2019 13:29:23 GMT
Don’t get me wrong- I don’t agree with his actual conduct and it’s not the way I would choose to behave, but how someone chooses to live their life is their choice as long as they are acting within the boundaries of the law. Scumbags abound in football. Hell, in society itself. In a squad of 24 - 30 footballers are they all going to be nice lads that your daughter could bring home for tea? Bound to be at least one who likes to ‘pump and dump’ girls who could be your daughter- we just don’t get to hear about it. So I do struggle with the argument that footballers are role models and we should look to sign only players that are. As a previous poster said there would be precious few about if you were looking for squeaky clean characters.Look at the likes of Frank Lampard, he has built up a great image over the years yet he was part of the spit-roasting scandal many years ago. Ryan Giggs seemed very wholesome until he was caught shagging his brothers wife. The list is endless of low class behaviour from footballers, we don’t have to like it or approve but should we actively seek to avoid signing those who have indulged in it? We would be cutting off our nose to spite our face if we do and I suspect people’s objections are only based on the quality of player. Would anyone have objected to us signing Giggs if he had left Man U on a free despite what a morally bankrupt individual he is? Ched Evans is a lower league striker so a bit easier to write off in that sense, I suspect. Again, I agree with you so much. In our exchanges I have purposefully used the words I have and have been very selective in what I’ve said and have never use the phrase “role model” because I’m not saying that footballers should be that, nor am I saying BRFC should only sign players who are role models or who are squeaky clean. But being footballers in this day and age mean they are far more in the public eye than you or I (not that I know what you do!) and because of that become more vulnerable to bad publicity and need to be responsible about their behaviour. The guy is innocent in the legal sense of the term and that’s it. He should not be punished legally and deserved any compensation for the initial judgement. My point was that the public, me and you, don’t just look at the legal stuff, being a famous sportsman he will have to be tried, wrongly probably, in the public eye about his behaviour and that’s happened. People have opinions and being famous means your reputation follows you. As I said it might not be illegal but his behaviour has had repercussions on his career and he has to accept responsibility for it which it sounds as if he has. I dont think it was ever an option signing him because of the financial financial constraints we have. It was just GC knowing Wilder and people on here putting two and two together. We have a Sheff U striker on loan, just not the one people might have thought! I think CEs signing would have divided the fanbase. Just look at what this thread has done! Btw, had he signed, I would not have booed him or criticised him but quietly supported him as I do all players who wear the quarters.😉 UTG! I think we agree then that he *should* be able to carry on his career. I understand your concern being not your own opinion but rather what people would think of the club itself by having such a player on it’s books. Doubtless we would need to speak to sponsors about it. But to be fair he has signed for two clubs since his release and it seems to be gradually fading in the eyes of the public, the worst it would get would be some obnoxious chanting from away fans and ribbing from Sh1!heads although we all know if Evans banged in 20+ goals and had a 300k release clause the Fat Controller and his poison dwarf across the river would be first in the queue to buy him off us. In a wider context I doubt anyone would be looking for our results and hoping we lose just because Evans plays for us. The public has a new enfant terrible to hound in the form of Paddy Jackson. Personally I think it’s about time people stood up to these cultural Marxist bullies on platforms like twitter and refused to bow to the extreme left wing. Start pushing back and recognising that players that have been cleared of sexual assault have a right to go about their business and attempts to destabilise sponsors will be met with indifference. The only reason this is an issue is because social media is able to make it so and because social media needs a hate figure for these slavering loons to ruin. Time to stand up to them imo.
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 12, 2019 16:11:45 GMT
Again, I agree with you so much. In our exchanges I have purposefully used the words I have and have been very selective in what I’ve said and have never use the phrase “role model” because I’m not saying that footballers should be that, nor am I saying BRFC should only sign players who are role models or who are squeaky clean. But being footballers in this day and age mean they are far more in the public eye than you or I (not that I know what you do!) and because of that become more vulnerable to bad publicity and need to be responsible about their behaviour. The guy is innocent in the legal sense of the term and that’s it. He should not be punished legally and deserved any compensation for the initial judgement. My point was that the public, me and you, don’t just look at the legal stuff, being a famous sportsman he will have to be tried, wrongly probably, in the public eye about his behaviour and that’s happened. People have opinions and being famous means your reputation follows you. As I said it might not be illegal but his behaviour has had repercussions on his career and he has to accept responsibility for it which it sounds as if he has. I dont think it was ever an option signing him because of the financial financial constraints we have. It was just GC knowing Wilder and people on here putting two and two together. We have a Sheff U striker on loan, just not the one people might have thought! I think CEs signing would have divided the fanbase. Just look at what this thread has done! Btw, had he signed, I would not have booed him or criticised him but quietly supported him as I do all players who wear the quarters.😉 UTG! I think we agree then that he *should* be able to carry on his career. I understand your concern being not your own opinion but rather what people would think of the club itself by having such a player on it’s books. Doubtless we would need to speak to sponsors about it. But to be fair he has signed for two clubs since his release and it seems to be gradually fading in the eyes of the public, the worst it would get would be some obnoxious chanting from away fans and ribbing from Sh1!heads although we all know if Evans banged in 20+ goals and had a 300k release clause the Fat Controller and his poison dwarf across the river would be first in the queue to buy him off us. In a wider context I doubt anyone would be looking for our results and hoping we lose just because Evans plays for us. The public has a new enfant terrible to hound in the form of Paddy Jackson. Personally I think it’s about time people stood up to these cultural Marxist bullies on platforms like twitter and refused to bow to the extreme left wing. Start pushing back and recognising that players that have been cleared of sexual assault have a right to go about their business and attempts to destabilise sponsors will be met with indifference. The only reason this is an issue is because social media is able to make it so and because social media needs a hate figure for these slavering loons to ruin. Time to stand up to them imo. Yes, I’ve never said him or anyone in a similar situation should not be able to carry on with their career. I took part in a poll and said “no” to signing him like many others. As I’ve said I don’t think it was ever realistic and the rumours started because GC talked to CW at Sheff U. Your points about other fans esp that lot across the river doesn’t even register with me, I couldn’t give a monkey’s what anyone else thinks. But I could see the divisiveness that could happen amongst gasheads and that would worry me. I don’t engage with any form of social media, apart from this, so I’m fairly ignorant about what others say and make up my own mind and I can agree with you that any form of bullying needs to be stood up to. We agree over much of this. And I will still think that just because someone is innocent legally they cannot escape responsibility for their behaviour which will always be judged in the larger public arena. It should not of course stop them from carrying on with their chosen career but it does make it harder because so many will not discriminate between the legal position of innocence and the more murky public views where there will be many shades of grey. UTG!
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 12, 2019 16:26:33 GMT
They are always different scenarios, depending on the opinion you take, but they all have victims. I suspect families can be torn apart in lots of different ways, as I said it’s not black and white they are several shades of grey. But they all carry repercussions which the perpetrator has to face. UTG! Evans was more a participant than a perpetrator. As for victims who were they in this case? Was it the girl who went through the 'ordeal' but was still going about her routine of getting drunk and sleeping with two different men on a weekend just a fortnight after the Evans/McDonald incident? (As per evidence presented in the appeal) Or was Evans the victim after losing 2 1/2 years of his freedom for what turns out was a consensual sexual activity? And is still being punished now with his ability to carry out his occupation being limited due to moral high ground football fans! Yes, the girl was certainly not without fault but you seem to be saying because she gets drunk and has questionable habits that makes it alright for someone to do what they like with their mates. The law fortunately has always been there to support vulnerable people and protect them from themselves even. Wealthy footballers or anyone should not take advantage of someone who might not be in a position to protect themselves. And of course he was a victim as well and he should be allowed to continue with his career. But be clear eric if his ability to carry on with his occupation is being limited it is because of his behaviour that night not because of anyone else. Im not sure if the comment about “moral high ground football fans” was aimed at me, I’m sure it wasn’t because I’m not really but I have always accepted that we all own our own behaviour and need to take responsibility for that behaviour and not blame someone else when something goes wrong due to something we did. UTG!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2019 17:18:25 GMT
Evans was more a participant than a perpetrator. As for victims who were they in this case? Was it the girl who went through the 'ordeal' but was still going about her routine of getting drunk and sleeping with two different men on a weekend just a fortnight after the Evans/McDonald incident? (As per evidence presented in the appeal) Or was Evans the victim after losing 2 1/2 years of his freedom for what turns out was a consensual sexual activity? And is still being punished now with his ability to carry out his occupation being limited due to moral high ground football fans! Yes, the girl was certainly not without fault but you seem to be saying because she gets drunk and has questionable habits that makes it alright for someone to do what they like with their mates. The law fortunately has always been there to support vulnerable people and protect them from themselves even. Wealthy footballers or anyone should not take advantage of someone who might not be in a position to protect themselves. And of course he was a victim as well and he should be allowed to continue with his career. But be clear eric if his ability to carry on with his occupation is being limited it is because of his behaviour that night not because of anyone else. Im not sure if the comment about “moral high ground football fans” was aimed at me, I’m sure it wasn’t because I’m not really but I have always accepted that we all own our own behaviour and need to take responsibility for that behaviour and not blame someone else when something goes wrong due to something we did. UTG! No not aimed at you Wareham. Football fans make me laugh generally, spit and snarl bile at opposition players at every opportunity but when a player does something as innocuous as cup their ear they go mental. Same with signings - a player has any black mark against their name and they get all pompous about not being fit to "wear their clubs colours". If we showed such a strong code of ethics and self policed our stadiums to the same standard watching football would be far more enjoyable. One final word on the case in question. I agree about the law in principle protecting vulnerable people but I don't think the "victim" here falls into that bracket. All three had been drinking heavily but all knew what they were doing and which the appeal court accepted once all relevant evidence was allowed to be heard. An interesting debate but largely irrelevant to BRFC as despite high hopes of signing a player of that calibre everyone seems to have forgotten who we are and we always fail to meet fans hopes in the transfer market. Enjoy the sporting weekend and UTG
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Post by Squiffy on Jul 12, 2019 17:29:47 GMT
Reading this thread I now realise that myself and Bolders will never be allowed to play for Rovers. you could provide the half time entertainment.... Keepy-Uppy? 😳
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Post by aghast on Jul 12, 2019 18:19:40 GMT
I'm a Marxist bully and I'm ok I blame all night and I sleep all day
I climb old trees, I beg my lunch I stalk celebrities
On Wednesdays I go claiming, and spend my dole money.
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Post by madgas on Jul 12, 2019 18:20:07 GMT
His apology was pretty limp. But as many say, everyone deserves second chances. But on the face of what I've seen regarding the trial and subsequent actions I wouldn't sign him. But I don't have to do my due diligence like coggy. If cogs determines different. I'm not boycotting. His behaviour was really poor no doubt. But we're kidding ourselves if we think footballers are angels and are worthy of role model status off the pitch. You're right. There are other footballers that misbehave. And in truth, I don't think those who look for their moral guidance from footballers will get that far... But just because other footballers have been bad doesn't mean that it's ok for them to be so. If someone does multiple murders, no remorse, would you sign them because well we've had players that have had speeding fines in the past. I appreciate that the law is binary. And he was found not guilty. But morality is not. Its grey. And from everything I read on the case I'd suggest- he's a bad egg. Butttttttt again, if cogs speaks to him and gets a different vibe- I'm content with that. But in a binary poll I think the logical conclusion is "no" or "yes if."
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