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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 14:47:43 GMT
Find it fascinating the level of detail people go into discussing a current (and potential) contract they presumably know nothing about.
Willing to be corrected.
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Post by tomylil on Sept 18, 2019 14:48:10 GMT
If you were JCH would you sign a new contract without a release clause? I wouldn’t. Rather than have a 1 or 2k a week pay rise now I’d back my ability for the year or two left and bank on leaving on a free and pick up a huge signing on fee from a championship club + championship wages or wait and see if my form leads a club to break the bank for me in January. The way I see it, given the form he is in, there is no way his agent will let him sign a new contract unless there is a low release clause in it. I think Rovers might be in danger of paying more money to end up with an explicit release clause that decides how much he goes for in January rather than us setting out how much we want to sell him for. As it stands he has until 2021 to go so we are under no pressure to do anything right this minute. Well that's all well and nice, but put one in and we say no then JCH will live out earning 1k/2k per week less than he could, he'd also put himself in a bad position with the club. The club would almost certainly say no to a low release clause at this point. Why would they? It's not like with Taylor when he was actually out of contract. Otherwise we can just sell him if we want to & get the money when we want and pay him less money. Don't forget that this is JCH's first real success, it's not like he's been banging them in all his career. He's probably happy here and he's doing really well for himself & the team, there is no reason to ruin that. Let's be honest, if JCH was on a 10 year deal and wanted to leave we wouldn't stand in his way anyway. Players hold all the cards mate. His agent might say ok you're gonna lose maybe £50 - £100k up to contract end by not extending but you get a massive signing on fee somewhere and the club gets nothing. The club will know this so whilst an extra year is the target, if he says no they could cash in during January because as you rightly say he's in the scoring form of his life and that might disappear at any time. The quandary is should we be near either end of the table during January as his goals would make all the difference and a million quid isn't worth being in L2 or missing out on the Champ. Mid table with teams clear either end and I reckon we cash in.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 14:50:10 GMT
I would suggest, leave the club to sort this one out. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. After the previous fiasco over MT,is it not time the experts on here cut the club some slack, stand back and see what happens if and when JCH leaves.
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Post by tomylil on Sept 18, 2019 14:59:21 GMT
I would suggest, leave the club to sort this one out. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. After the previous fiasco over MT,is it not time the experts on here cut the club some slack, stand back and see what happens if and when JCH leaves. So... When theres a press report about our most important player being offered a contract extension we shouldn't discuss the possible permutations ? Clearly need to close the thread then and whilst we are at it wipe out the fruit merket one because we need the club to sort that one out too etc etc etc. T'is a forum - none of us know jackshit about most things but we all have opinions. I don't see anyone damning the club, in fact everyone seems to say well done Rovers about time we wete ahead of the game.
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Post by gasincider on Sept 18, 2019 14:59:35 GMT
If Wael is doing the negotiating it will be a disaster. Before he came here JCH started well at Coventry then disappeared from the radar. He has two years left on his deal now, so why rush it, if he disappears again we could have another Kyle Bennett situation on our hands. You need experienced people dealing with this not Wael. The time to do it is next summer. Follow thePeterborough model. When you have a year left, offer the guy new terms and if he turns it down sell him.
Talking of Wael, remember the 5 year deal for DC ? That was a lucky escape.
Wonder if JCH will join Wasserman Agency through Jermaine Easter. Remember Bodin, Lockyer, The Snake ? Can't remember the other one. He seems to be undermining all the decent players we have. Personally, I would ban the bloke from the ground.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 15:00:24 GMT
If you were JCH would you sign a new contract without a release clause? I wouldn’t. Rather than have a 1 or 2k a week pay rise now I’d back my ability for the year or two left and bank on leaving on a free and pick up a huge signing on fee from a championship club + championship wages or wait and see if my form leads a club to break the bank for me in January. The way I see it, given the form he is in, there is no way his agent will let him sign a new contract unless there is a low release clause in it. I think Rovers might be in danger of paying more money to end up with an explicit release clause that decides how much he goes for in January rather than us setting out how much we want to sell him for. As it stands he has until 2021 to go so we are under no pressure to do anything right this minute. Well that's all well and nice, but put one in and we say no then JCH will live out earning 1k/2k per week less than he could, he'd also put himself in a bad position with the club. The club would almost certainly say no to a low release clause at this point. Why would they? It's not like with Taylor when he was actually out of contract. Otherwise we can just sell him if we want to & get the money when we want and pay him less money. Don't forget that this is JCH's first real success, it's not like he's been banging them in all his career. He's probably happy here and he's doing really well for himself & the team, there is no reason to ruin that. Let's be honest, if JCH was on a 10 year deal and wanted to leave we wouldn't stand in his way anyway. That’s what will happen. Talks will either break down (over the value of a release clause) or he will sign and it will come out later that his new contract has a release clause in it. We simply can’t compensate for the money he could get if he waits and keeps his form up. Any player in that situation is going to be confident enough to back his ability. If we offered say, 10k a week then maybe we might have some decent leverage in any contract talks, or we looked like a favourite for promotion. As it is, we’re skint, we can’t close games out and JCH is pretty much why we are even mid table. We know he’s too good for us, he knows he’s too good for us and even his agent knows he’s too good for us. We have no leverage whatsoever apart from a few extra quid a week, maybe 52k over the course of a year when a champ club could offer him 100s of 1000s of is in a signing on fee alone. Us offering him a new contract is like an overweight girl (or guy, let’s not be sexist!) proposing marriage to their physically fit partner who gets eyed up by the opposite sex every time they are down the gym. They could commit to a guaranteed partner now who has no real leverage to get them to commit or they could wait for one of their suitors down the gym to chance their arm.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 15:04:35 GMT
If Wael is doing the negotiating it will be a disaster. Before he came here JCH started well at Coventry then disappeared from the radar. He has two years left on his deal now, so why rush it, if he disappears again we could have another Kyle Bennett situation on our hands. You need experienced people dealing with this not Wael. The time to do it is next summer. Follow thePeterborough model. When you have a year left, offer the guy new terms and if he turns it down sell him. Talking of Wael, remember the 5 year deal for DC ? That was a lucky escape. Wonder if JCH will join Wasserman Agency through Jermaine Easter. Remember Bodin, Lockyer, The Snake ? Can't remember the other one. He seems to be undermining all the decent players we have. Personally, I would ban the bloke from the ground. Exactly! That’s what I thought when I saw the thread: “this has got Wael written all over it” and I too also thought of Peterborough and that they would be waiting to see how things pan out rather than rushing a new contract through given that he is contracted to us to 2021. I personally don’t think we need to do anything yet.
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Post by canberragas69 on Sept 18, 2019 15:08:48 GMT
Finally! We’re learning! Best news I’ve seen today, fingers crossed we can sort out a deal. I also wouldn’t expect a release clause if we are extending a contract from 18 months to 32 months, just an increase in pay/bonuses & length. I hope so anyway. If he keeps up the form he will be worth £2m in the summer no doubt - I’m glad he’s enjoying his time here under GC too. If you were JCH would you sign a new contract without a release clause? I wouldn’t. Rather than have a 1 or 2k a week pay rise now I’d back my ability for the year or two left and bank on leaving on a free and pick up a huge signing on fee from a championship club + championship wages or wait and see if my form leads a club to break the bank for me in January. The way I see it, given the form he is in, there is no way his agent will let him sign a new contract unless there is a low release clause in it. I think Rovers might be in danger of paying more money to end up with an explicit release clause that decides how much he goes for in January rather than us setting out how much we want to sell him for. As it stands he has until 2021 to go so we are under no pressure to do anything right this minute.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 15:15:29 GMT
I don't think that its a coincidence that I was told yesterday that JCH's agent is keen to move him on. Obviously the club are doing the right thing trying to get him under a longer contract but ultimately it will come down to what the player wants and sadly what information the agent passes on to him.
What would be the supporters reaction be if JCH followed Matt Taylor south of the river?
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 18, 2019 15:17:05 GMT
Well that's all well and nice, but put one in and we say no then JCH will live out earning 1k/2k per week less than he could, he'd also put himself in a bad position with the club. The club would almost certainly say no to a low release clause at this point. Why would they? It's not like with Taylor when he was actually out of contract. Otherwise we can just sell him if we want to & get the money when we want and pay him less money. Don't forget that this is JCH's first real success, it's not like he's been banging them in all his career. He's probably happy here and he's doing really well for himself & the team, there is no reason to ruin that. Let's be honest, if JCH was on a 10 year deal and wanted to leave we wouldn't stand in his way anyway. That’s what will happen. Talks will either break down (over the value of a release clause) or he will sign and it will come out later that his new contract has a release clause in it. We simply can’t compensate for the money he could get if he waits and keeps his form up. Any player in that situation is going to be confident enough to back his ability. If we offered say, 10k a week then maybe we might have some decent leverage in any contract talks, or we looked like a favourite for promotion. As it is, we’re skint, we can’t close games out and JCH is pretty much why we are even mid table. We know he’s too good for us, he knows he’s too good for us and even his agent knows he’s too good for us. We have no leverage whatsoever apart from a few extra quid a week, maybe 52k over the course of a year when a champ club could offer him 100s of 1000s of is in a signing on fee alone. Us offering him a new contract is like an overweight girl (or guy, let’s not be sexist!) proposing marriage to their physically fit partner who gets eyed up by the opposite sex every time they are down the gym. They could commit to a guaranteed partner now who has no real leverage to get them to commit or they could wait for one of their suitors down the gym to chance their arm. He (Easter) was at the game last night.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 15:17:50 GMT
I don't think that its a coincidence that I was told yesterday that JCH's agent is keen to move him on. Obviously the club are doing the right thing trying to get him under a longer contract but ultimately it will come down to what the player wants and sadly what information the agent passes on to him. What would be the supporters reaction be if JCH followed Matt Taylor south of the river? Depends if he went for £300k after his release clause was met
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Post by Gassy on Sept 18, 2019 15:34:27 GMT
If Wael is doing the negotiating it will be a disaster. Before he came here JCH started well at Coventry then disappeared from the radar. He has two years left on his deal now, so why rush it, if he disappears again we could have another Kyle Bennett situation on our hands. You need experienced people dealing with this not Wael. The time to do it is next summer. Follow thePeterborough model. When you have a year left, offer the guy new terms and if he turns it down sell him. Talking of Wael, remember the 5 year deal for DC ? That was a lucky escape. Wonder if JCH will join Wasserman Agency through Jermaine Easter. Remember Bodin, Lockyer, The Snake ? Can't remember the other one. He seems to be undermining all the decent players we have. Personally, I would ban the bloke from the ground. Yeah let’s offer him a deal in his final year, because that’s never gone wrong for us Will we ever learn? Maybe Starnes is negotiating it as club CEO? Unless you just wanted to any excuse to put Wael down, which is very much unlike you or Knowall...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 15:37:48 GMT
I don't think that its a coincidence that I was told yesterday that JCH's agent is keen to move him on. Obviously the club are doing the right thing trying to get him under a longer contract but ultimately it will come down to what the player wants and sadly what information the agent passes on to him. What would be the supporters reaction be if JCH followed Matt Taylor south of the river? If they pay 5 to 7 million for him (2 million of which would be a “Shithead tax”) then not fussed. We are in a decent position at the moment to put him up for ransom and we should make full use of that position.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 15:42:05 GMT
If Wael is doing the negotiating it will be a disaster. Before he came here JCH started well at Coventry then disappeared from the radar. He has two years left on his deal now, so why rush it, if he disappears again we could have another Kyle Bennett situation on our hands. You need experienced people dealing with this not Wael. The time to do it is next summer. Follow thePeterborough model. When you have a year left, offer the guy new terms and if he turns it down sell him. Talking of Wael, remember the 5 year deal for DC ? That was a lucky escape. Wonder if JCH will join Wasserman Agency through Jermaine Easter. Remember Bodin, Lockyer, The Snake ? Can't remember the other one. He seems to be undermining all the decent players we have. Personally, I would ban the bloke from the ground. Yeah let’s offer him a deal in his final year, because that’s never gone wrong for us Will we ever learn? Maybe Starnes is negotiating it as club CEO? Unless you just wanted to any excuse to put Wael down, which is very much unlike you or Knowall... You make it sound like we are in full control of the situation and we aren’t and haven’t been from the moment he started scoring consistently. As Holmes said, the player will do what he is advised by his agent (who wants to move him on) so we could offer him a contract now, next week or in a year. The likelihood of him signing is not great across all those different dates because he has way more leverage than the club. We can give him enticements to sign, sure, but we are skint. Where are we going to find the money in the budget to give him a substantial pay rise worth signing up for? In fact that raises an interesting question: Say we have 2k a week left in the budget. Would you prefer to see us sign a creative midfielder with that money, or give it to JCH who is contracted to 2021 anyway?
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Post by Gassy on Sept 18, 2019 15:53:47 GMT
Yeah let’s offer him a deal in his final year, because that’s never gone wrong for us Will we ever learn? Maybe Starnes is negotiating it as club CEO? Unless you just wanted to any excuse to put Wael down, which is very much unlike you or Knowall... You make it sound like we are in full control of the situation and we aren’t and haven’t been from the moment he started scoring consistently. As Holmes said, the player will do what he is advised by his agent (who wants to move him on) so we could offer him a contract now, next week or in a year. The likelihood of him signing is not great across all those different dates because he has way more leverage than the club. We can give him enticements to sign, sure, but we are skint. Where are we going to find the money in the budget to give him a substantial pay rise worth signing up for? In fact that raises an interesting question: Say we have 2k a week left in the budget. Would you prefer to see us sign a creative midfielder with that money, or give it to JCH who is contracted to 2021 anyway? I’m not making it out like anything, I’m commenting on Wael bashing & how we’ve let all our previous assets go for peanuts because we didn’t extend deals in advance. Now we are finally trying to do that, people want us to go back to what we did with Bodin & Taylor. Why wouldn’t Starnes be dealing with it? Why would the anti Wael brigade believe Wael would do it?. Your question at the end isn’t such a simple question there are more variables to it. Its coming across that the extra 2k a week is just free cash we are giving him no reason at all. However, would I rather give JCH an extra 2k a week and confirm his playing for us longer AND meaning we’d get a lot more (£1m extra?) for selling him? I’d do that in a heartbeat. 2k wouldn’t get us much of a creative midfielder at this level. But it could make a huge difference to our strike force and the rest of our budgets. It’s a no brainer for me.
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Post by tomylil on Sept 18, 2019 16:00:16 GMT
I don't think that its a coincidence that I was told yesterday that JCH's agent is keen to move him on. Obviously the club are doing the right thing trying to get him under a longer contract but ultimately it will come down to what the player wants and sadly what information the agent passes on to him. What would be the supporters reaction be if JCH followed Matt Taylor south of the river? Couldn't see us flogging him to that lot under any circumstances after the Taylor debacle, and to be honest I couldn't see them taking a punt on him either as i'm not sure he fits their alleged player profile.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 16:12:06 GMT
You make it sound like we are in full control of the situation and we aren’t and haven’t been from the moment he started scoring consistently. As Holmes said, the player will do what he is advised by his agent (who wants to move him on) so we could offer him a contract now, next week or in a year. The likelihood of him signing is not great across all those different dates because he has way more leverage than the club. We can give him enticements to sign, sure, but we are skint. Where are we going to find the money in the budget to give him a substantial pay rise worth signing up for? In fact that raises an interesting question: Say we have 2k a week left in the budget. Would you prefer to see us sign a creative midfielder with that money, or give it to JCH who is contracted to 2021 anyway? I’m not making it out like anything, I’m commenting on Wael bashing & how we’ve let all our previous assets go for peanuts because we didn’t extend deals in advance. Now we are finally trying to do that, people want us to go back to what we did with Bodin & Taylor. Why wouldn’t Starnes be dealing with it? Why would the anti Wael brigade believe Wael would do it?. Your question at the end isn’t such a simple question there are more variables to it. Its coming across that the extra 2k a week is just free cash we are giving him no reason at all. However, would I rather give JCH an extra 2k a week and confirm his playing for us longer AND meaning we’d get a lot more (£1m extra?) for selling him? I’d do that in a heartbeat. 2k wouldn’t get us much of a creative midfielder at this level. But it could make a huge difference to our strike force and the rest of our budgets. It’s a no brainer for me. What I’m trying to say is that we can change our approach sure but the club needs leverage to make a player sign and we don’t have much leverage to encourage a championship quality player to extend his contract at a club that isn’t looking like promotion contenders. Our main leverage is money but we don’t have much of that either. Personally I think the timing is suspect on our part too - offering to pay more to a player who, in all likelihood will not be here beyond the end of his current deal let alone any extension date. It makes sense to me for us to save the money on any increase and give him a take it or leave it offer at the end of this season and then sell for good money if he doesn’t fancy it, as gasincider suggested. I just don’t see how we are going to convince him to sign a new deal as the limit of what we can afford doesn’t compare with what he could earn by waiting. Same as with Lockyer really, we tried extending his contract way before he left but he was willing to play the long game and I can see that happening with JCH.
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Post by Gassy on Sept 18, 2019 16:21:54 GMT
I’m not making it out like anything, I’m commenting on Wael bashing & how we’ve let all our previous assets go for peanuts because we didn’t extend deals in advance. Now we are finally trying to do that, people want us to go back to what we did with Bodin & Taylor. Why wouldn’t Starnes be dealing with it? Why would the anti Wael brigade believe Wael would do it?. Your question at the end isn’t such a simple question there are more variables to it. Its coming across that the extra 2k a week is just free cash we are giving him no reason at all. However, would I rather give JCH an extra 2k a week and confirm his playing for us longer AND meaning we’d get a lot more (£1m extra?) for selling him? I’d do that in a heartbeat. 2k wouldn’t get us much of a creative midfielder at this level. But it could make a huge difference to our strike force and the rest of our budgets. It’s a no brainer for me. What I’m trying to say is that we can change our approach sure but the club needs leverage to make a player sign and we don’t have much leverage to encourage a championship quality player to extend his contract at a club that isn’t looking like promotion contenders. Our main leverage is money but we don’t have much of that either. Personally I think the timing is suspect on our part too - offering to pay more to a player who, in all likelihood will not be here beyond the end of his current deal let alone any extension date. It makes sense to me for us to save the money on any increase and give him a take it or leave it offer at the end of this season and then sell for good money if he doesn’t fancy it, as gasincider suggested. I just don’t see how we are going to convince him to sign a new deal as the limit of what we can afford doesn’t compare with what he could earn by waiting. Same as with Lockyer really, we tried extending his contract way before he left but he was willing to play the long game and I can see that happening with JCH. Sure, but JCH with 12 months on his contract is worth what? JCH with 2 years in his contract is probably worth 50% more, comfortably. That’s just good business sense. If he wants a low release clause then we should say no and sell him in the summer. That way he won’t get his huge sign on fee as a free agent,, won’t get his higher wages with us and he will also need to play to his maximum until end of the season to get that summer move, otherwise he won’t even be going to the championship. Maybe I’m a rose tinter here, but you’re also being overly pessimistic IMO. JCH doesn’t hold all the power, he has more, but there are also things we can do, as I mentioned just above. We don’t have anything to lose by opening negotiations. If they don’t work out then no problem, we sell next year. But I am personally glad the club is finally willing to get ahead on contracts. We should have sold Lockyer the summer before he left IMO, but we were too slow to react
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Post by blueridge on Sept 18, 2019 16:31:08 GMT
If Wael is doing the negotiating it will be a disaster. Before he came here JCH started well at Coventry then disappeared from the radar. He has two years left on his deal now, so why rush it, if he disappears again we could have another Kyle Bennett situation on our hands. You need experienced people dealing with this not Wael. The time to do it is next summer. Follow thePeterborough model. When you have a year left, offer the guy new terms and if he turns it down sell him. Talking of Wael, remember the 5 year deal for DC ? That was a lucky escape. Wonder if JCH will join Wasserman Agency through Jermaine Easter. Remember Bodin, Lockyer, The Snake ? Can't remember the other one. He seems to be undermining all the decent players we have. Personally, I would ban the bloke from the ground. Yeah let’s offer him a deal in his final year, because that’s never gone wrong for us Will we ever learn? Maybe Starnes is negotiating it as club CEO? Unless you just wanted to any excuse to put Wael down, which is very much unlike you or Knowall... Interesting that Easter & Holloway were guests of Hamer last night.
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Post by james246 on Sept 18, 2019 16:40:23 GMT
JCH is a cracking player who has done wonderful things for the club since his arrival;. He deserves to be the clubs highest paid player he offers the team so much, even when he doesn't score teams can never relax against him.
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