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Post by aghast on Nov 4, 2019 13:22:53 GMT
How did we get ourselves in this situation? We got the full ownership of the Mem perfectly legally for next to nothing when Bristol Rugby became insolvent. It was adequate for the short term, and ripe for redevelopment, or selling for housing to part-fund a new stadium. Instead here we are 23 years after we moved in with debts about as large as assets, the stadium rotting away (despite cosmetic improvements), and millions spent on abortive attempts to sort it out. Planners, consultants and lawyers have done very well out of us. We actually acquired the whole ownership for its then valuation as a stadium. These days the figures we talk about is the valuation as a building plot which is totally different. I thought we took out a mortgage of about £3m in 1996 and became 50% owners. In 1998 when Bristol Rugby went bust, we picked up the other 50% for about £100k, so we got the whole thing at a bargain price.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 16:24:46 GMT
We actually acquired the whole ownership for its then valuation as a stadium. These days the figures we talk about is the valuation as a building plot which is totally different. I thought we took out a mortgage of about £3m in 1996 and became 50% owners. In 1998 when Bristol Rugby went bust, we picked up the other 50% for about £100k, so we got the whole thing at a bargain price. Lets round it up to £3m as I can’t remember if it was £2.2m or £2.5m I could check but it’s hardly worth it. Both clubs set up a company called The Memorial Stadium Company Limited which was owned 50% by the owners of BRFC and 50% Bristol Rugby so the debt was split down the middle. Both paid rent which serviced the debt but the Rugby club hit trouble again soon after and went bust. Barclays had insisted on adding a clause to the mortgage so that if either party went bust the other party would acquire their share of the stadium, and here’s the big bit, and their share of the debt for £10k. I’m reality Rovers paid the full value of the stadium plus an extra £10k. It should also be remembered that a sale of the stadium to Amtrak Parcels had been agreed for the same selling price before Colin Williams approached Geoff Dunford with his plan for both clubs to purchase the stadium from the late Arthur Holmes.
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craggo
Reserve Team
Based in North-West. Lifelong Bristol Rovers fan.
Posts: 146
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Post by craggo on Nov 5, 2019 12:25:26 GMT
Think i will explain myself a bit more. I stated a number of teams that we are bigger than. Of course i meant if all things were equal. Like if we get promoted this season. Or how many fans we would take to a big game, IE Prem league team in cup, Wembley etc. I am not saying we are bigger right now. Using teams that have been in the Championship previously that we are bigger than- Burton, Yeovil, Oldham, Bury and Crewe to name a few. In fact Oldham and Notts County have been in the top div fairly recently. As for Wigan, I know they have been in the PL. There are other factors that i have taken into account for saying what i did. When they were shall we say, Better ?. They took less than 200 for a game at Middlesbrough. When somebody makes a statement about football opinions differ. To prove i am not being biased look at Bradford in L2. They are getting huge support. I will give you a few of my opinions here about football in general. You can be certain a load of you will disagree with some of them, Man Utd are way bigger than Man City. Man City and Chelsea are plastic. Liverpool deserved to win the title last season. They only lost 1 league game. When people said Blackburn bought the title in the 90s, What do same people think about City right now ?. Arsenal have been the best team in London. Arsene Wenger WAS the best manager EVER in the PL. (invincible team)- That team was the best ever too. Rangers in the 90s would have won the English PL. The one with McCoist, Gazza, McCall, Albertz, Goram etc. Rangers and Celtic would be near the top of the English PL. They are huge Clubs who would adjust to it. The best managers should test themselves in Serie A. It is the most challenging re tactics. Barcelona are NOT the best team ever. Nowhere near. They have a team full of sulkers when they get challenged (normally in the CL). Most people who live in Liverpool are Evertonians. Yes this is nothing to do with us. It is to prove that opinions vary from one person to another. FAO any C--y fans reading. I believe i have made it onto your forum. WOW. I am so honoured. Hope you have been nice. If not, At least i have got on. Such a MASSIVE Club. I cannot understand why you are giving me any of your time. Guys, Enjoy it while you can. I am CERTAIN you will be in L1 sooner than you think. I have always had a laugh at you. Let me tell you a story, When i was younger(HINT HINT) i used to have you as out and out rivals, As in being a bit obsessed with how you were doing, So much so that when you were playing in the North West(my location) i went. To basically watch you get beat. One time was at Burnden Park. Will have been around 90. Think it was either 1-0 or 2-0 to Bolton. I know Darby scored. You had a big following(compliment). It felt very hostile. Police chopper overhead. Wow i thought. After the match your lot came away from the out of the way away exits, Onto Manny Road and up towards Orlando Bridge. ( Brave tbh given Boltons reputation in the 80/90s) and i saw the lot of your Hardmen get completely pasted. I still laugh my head off about it now. It sums you up in one word- WANNABES. i mean, Your fans trying to boss a away City/Town. Bristol City FC. Everything about them. Fans,history. Probably their forum- A COMPLETE LAUGHING STOCK. Cannot believe i have wrote all that about the crap.
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Post by baggins on Nov 5, 2019 12:32:47 GMT
Got as far as think.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 13:02:01 GMT
Jesus Wept
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Post by tomylil on Nov 5, 2019 13:02:57 GMT
Think i will explain myself a bit more. I stated a number of teams that we are bigger than. Of course i meant if all things were equal. Like if we get promoted this season. Or how many fans we would take to a big game, IE Prem league team in cup, Wembley etc. I am not saying we are bigger right now. Using teams that have been in the Championship previously that we are bigger than- Burton, Yeovil, Oldham, Bury and Crewe to name a few. In fact Oldham and Notts County have been in the top div fairly recently. As for Wigan, I know they have been in the PL. There are other factors that i have taken into account for saying what i did. When they were shall we say, Better ?. They took less than 200 for a game at Middlesbrough. When somebody makes a statement about football opinions differ. To prove i am not being biased look at Bradford in L2. They are getting huge support. I will give you a few of my opinions here about football in general. You can be certain a load of you will disagree with some of them, Man Utd are way bigger than Man City. Man City and Chelsea are plastic. Liverpool deserved to win the title last season. They only lost 1 league game. When people said Blackburn bought the title in the 90s, What do same people think about City right now ?. Arsenal have been the best team in London. Arsene Wenger WAS the best manager EVER in the PL. (invincible team)- That team was the best ever too. Rangers in the 90s would have won the English PL. The one with McCoist, Gazza, McCall, Albertz, Goram etc. Rangers and Celtic would be near the top of the English PL. They are huge Clubs who would adjust to it. The best managers should test themselves in Serie A. It is the most challenging re tactics. Barcelona are NOT the best team ever. Nowhere near. They have a team full of sulkers when they get challenged (normally in the CL). Most people who live in Liverpool are Evertonians. Yes this is nothing to do with us. It is to prove that opinions vary from one person to another. FAO any C--y fans reading. I believe i have made it onto your forum. WOW. I am so honoured. Hope you have been nice. If not, At least i have got on. Such a MASSIVE Club. I cannot understand why you are giving me any of your time. Guys, Enjoy it while you can. I am CERTAIN you will be in L1 sooner than you think. I have always had a laugh at you. Let me tell you a story, When i was younger(HINT HINT) i used to have you as out and out rivals, As in being a bit obsessed with how you were doing, So much so that when you were playing in the North West(my location) i went. To basically watch you get beat. One time was at Burnden Park. Will have been around 90. Think it was either 1-0 or 2-0 to Bolton. I know Darby scored. You had a big following(compliment). It felt very hostile. Police chopper overhead. Wow i thought. After the match your lot came away from the out of the way away exits, Onto Manny Road and up towards Orlando Bridge. ( Brave tbh given Boltons reputation in the 80/90s) and i saw the lot of your Hardmen get completely pasted. I still laugh my head off about it now. It sums you up in one word- WANNABES. i mean, Your fans trying to boss a away City/Town. Bristol City FC. Everything about them. Fans,history. Probably their forum- A COMPLETE LAUGHING STOCK. Cannot believe i have wrote all that about the crap. No offence mate but you are an utter utter plum.
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craggo
Reserve Team
Based in North-West. Lifelong Bristol Rovers fan.
Posts: 146
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Post by craggo on Nov 5, 2019 13:07:41 GMT
Just to finish my rant about our game, Man City should be stripped of their title. They are breaking the rules of FFP. With the sponsorship deal. And Bury should not have been expelled.
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Post by baggins on Nov 5, 2019 13:16:10 GMT
Just to finish my rant about our game, Man City should be stripped of their title. They are breaking the rules of FFP. With the sponsorship deal. And Bury should not have been expelled. Anyone? Anyone at all want to comment on this?
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Post by toddy1953 on Nov 5, 2019 13:51:47 GMT
Think i will explain myself a bit more. I stated a number of teams that we are bigger than. Of course i meant if all things were equal. Like if we get promoted this season. Or how many fans we would take to a big game, IE Prem league team in cup, Wembley etc. I am not saying we are bigger right now. Using teams that have been in the Championship previously that we are bigger than- Burton, Yeovil, Oldham, Bury and Crewe to name a few. In fact Oldham and Notts County have been in the top div fairly recently. As for Wigan, I know they have been in the PL. There are other factors that i have taken into account for saying what i did. When they were shall we say, Better ?. They took less than 200 for a game at Middlesbrough. When somebody makes a statement about football opinions differ. To prove i am not being biased look at Bradford in L2. They are getting huge support. I will give you a few of my opinions here about football in general. You can be certain a load of you will disagree with some of them, Man Utd are way bigger than Man City. Man City and Chelsea are plastic. Liverpool deserved to win the title last season. They only lost 1 league game. When people said Blackburn bought the title in the 90s, What do same people think about City right now ?. Arsenal have been the best team in London. Arsene Wenger WAS the best manager EVER in the PL. (invincible team)- That team was the best ever too. Rangers in the 90s would have won the English PL. The one with McCoist, Gazza, McCall, Albertz, Goram etc. Rangers and Celtic would be near the top of the English PL. They are huge Clubs who would adjust to it. The best managers should test themselves in Serie A. It is the most challenging re tactics. Barcelona are NOT the best team ever. Nowhere near. They have a team full of sulkers when they get challenged (normally in the CL). Most people who live in Liverpool are Evertonians. Yes this is nothing to do with us. It is to prove that opinions vary from one person to another. FAO any C--y fans reading. I believe i have made it onto your forum. WOW. I am so honoured. Hope you have been nice. If not, At least i have got on. Such a MASSIVE Club. I cannot understand why you are giving me any of your time. Guys, Enjoy it while you can. I am CERTAIN you will be in L1 sooner than you think. I have always had a laugh at you. Let me tell you a story, When i was younger(HINT HINT) i used to have you as out and out rivals, As in being a bit obsessed with how you were doing, So much so that when you were playing in the North West(my location) i went. To basically watch you get beat. One time was at Burnden Park. Will have been around 90. Think it was either 1-0 or 2-0 to Bolton. I know Darby scored. You had a big following(compliment). It felt very hostile. Police chopper overhead. Wow i thought. After the match your lot came away from the out of the way away exits, Onto Manny Road and up towards Orlando Bridge. ( Brave tbh given Boltons reputation in the 80/90s) and i saw the lot of your Hardmen get completely pasted. I still laugh my head off about it now. It sums you up in one word- WANNABES. i mean, Your fans trying to boss a away City/Town. Bristol City FC. Everything about them. Fans,history. Probably their forum- A COMPLETE LAUGHING STOCK. Cannot believe i have wrote all that about the crap. I often read posts on here & think, WTF was that all about, indeed I can count some of my posts in that. But fair play to you old son, you have taken it to a whole ‘nother level.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 14:55:06 GMT
Just to finish my rant about our game, Man City should be stripped of their title. They are breaking the rules of FFP. With the sponsorship deal. And Bury should not have been expelled. Anyone? Anyone at all want to comment on this? Nah
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Post by aghast on Nov 5, 2019 18:17:31 GMT
My advice in life would be, when you're in a hole, keep digging.
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Post by glengas on Nov 5, 2019 19:01:35 GMT
Sorry to burst your bubble, but City appear to be knocking on the door of the Prem more than coming back to league 1. We need to worry about what we are doing as opposed to what they are doing. We are a country mile behind them in terms of stadium and training facilities. A lot of the kids at my sons school are City now and that is in North Bristol. Can’t imagine that being repeated in South Bristol. Rovers have potential, but we have been saying that for years.
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 5, 2019 19:55:02 GMT
Who are the championship teams that we are "bigger than"? Preston QPR Fulham Charlton Brentford Millwall Blackburn Wigan Luton Barnsley. The enemies. And some that have been in that division in the past. Blimey! I thought I was an optimist. 😉 UTG!
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Post by burnthewitch on Nov 6, 2019 18:17:23 GMT
av attendance (100 yrs) - rank - 50 year "ultimate" table rank Preston 14,666 35 46 QPR 13,551 38 21 Fulham 16,461 30 33 Charlton 15,703 33 30 Brentford 9,726 51 59 Millwall 12,268 41 34 Blackburn 17,418 27 24 Wigan 8,344 55 58 Luton 10,510 47 38 Barnsley 10,106 49 40 The Gas 9,686 52 55 Conclusion: We are on a par/slightly "bigger" than Wigan and Brentford (both who have, or are moving to decent stadiums), but "smaller" than all the others. Damn stats.
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Post by aghast on Nov 6, 2019 18:51:05 GMT
av attendance (100 yrs) - rank - 50 year "ultimate" table rank Preston 14,666 35 46 QPR 13,551 38 21 Fulham 16,461 30 33 Charlton 15,703 33 30 Brentford 9,726 51 59 Millwall 12,268 41 34 Blackburn 17,418 27 24 Wigan 8,344 55 58 Luton 10,510 47 38 Barnsley 10,106 49 40 The Gas 9,686 52 55 Conclusion: We are on a par/slightly "bigger" than Wigan and Brentford (both who have, or are moving to decent stadiums), but "smaller" than all the others. Damn stats. Wigan only joined the Football League in 1978 as minnows. A spell in the top division, an FA Cup final won, and a new stadium later, I think it's fair to say they've outperformed us. Brentford's new stadium is well underway, so they will also leave us for dead. Obviously it's a ridiculous post we're responding to, but it's sobering to see how small a club we have become since moving to the Mem.
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 6, 2019 19:14:28 GMT
av attendance (100 yrs) - rank - 50 year "ultimate" table rank Preston 14,666 35 46 QPR 13,551 38 21 Fulham 16,461 30 33 Charlton 15,703 33 30 Brentford 9,726 51 59 Millwall 12,268 41 34 Blackburn 17,418 27 24 Wigan 8,344 55 58 Luton 10,510 47 38 Barnsley 10,106 49 40 The Gas 9,686 52 55 Conclusion: We are on a par/slightly "bigger" than Wigan and Brentford (both who have, or are moving to decent stadiums), but "smaller" than all the others. Damn stats. How many of those clubs are based in cities like Bristol which have grown massivily in the last 100 years? Build a decent capacity stadium and play Championship football in it like Preston etc and then surely we'd get 15K+ attendences. Look at how Bristol Rugby has taken off since it moved to AG, fans would have said in the past they were mad if they suggested they'd get 28,000 gates for Bath etc when they were getting just 5,000(?) gates at the Mem.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Nov 6, 2019 20:02:19 GMT
It's self evident that a bigger stadium will result in greater attendances for Rovers. What is less evident is how this stadium will be funded. It seems that the loyal supporters have had to stomach numerous false dawns and broken promises.
By my reckoning, only Accrington in L1 has a more decrepit stadium than Rovers. Of course, I am willing to stand corrected if there are any more!
UTG
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 16:51:26 GMT
I see SL has written off £71 million of debt owed to him by BCFC. Been converted into shares.
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Post by aghast on Nov 7, 2019 17:29:24 GMT
I've just been reading about the rapid progress with AFC Wimbledon's new stadium.
Just 9,000 capacity initially (which is fine for them - and us it seems nowadays) but expandable to 30,000 if necessary. It'll be ready for next season.
Makes you weep.
They've raised over £2.5m in crowdfunding, have done a deal with the council to provide community facilities, are including 600 flats on the site, and will have a mortgage.
All in all, very creative.
Now I know London flats are worth more than Bristol flats, but actually the gap has narrowed a hell of a lot in the last 5 years.
They do have a lot more space on the site than the Mem, but not perhaps at the Tutti Frutti Market.
And I'm sure we could raise a lot more in crowdfunding than they could.
All done by the Wombles without a billionaire artificially funding them.
Perhaps the Al-Qadis will pull a rabbit out of the hat and stun us with nan equally creative plan.
You never know. But they're taking a long time about it, the rascals.
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Post by swissgas on Nov 10, 2019 15:25:24 GMT
I've just been reading about the rapid progress with AFC Wimbledon's new stadium. Just 9,000 capacity initially (which is fine for them - and us it seems nowadays) but expandable to 30,000 if necessary. It'll be ready for next season. Makes you weep. They've raised over £2.5m in crowdfunding, have done a deal with the council to provide community facilities, are including 600 flats on the site, and will have a mortgage. All in all, very creative. Now I know London flats are worth more than Bristol flats, but actually the gap has narrowed a hell of a lot in the last 5 years. They do have a lot more space on the site than the Mem, but not perhaps at the Tutti Frutti Market. And I'm sure we could raise a lot more in crowdfunding than they could. All done by the Wombles without a billionaire artificially funding them. Perhaps the Al-Qadis will pull a rabbit out of the hat and stun us with nan equally creative plan. You never know. But they're taking a long time about it, the rascals. Surely this is worth discussing ? www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/new-stadium/stadium-qa/All we need is a commitment from Dwane Sports that they will rollover all proceeds from the sale of the Mem into a new stadium, backing from the Council, crowdfunding from fans and Bob’s your uncle.
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