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Post by RD on Jan 9, 2020 7:36:06 GMT
Obviously emotions were high last night (at least my end), so I thought I'd post a thread this morning to clarify.
First, I don't want Garner sacked yet - I appreciate he does need longer to prove himself. That said, my worry is that time won't change anything (other than our league position continuing to worsen).
When he got the job, he struck me as someone with a very good knowledge of the game who seemed a likeable enough chap. What he didn't strike me as was a manager. He didn't come across particularly authoritative or have much charisma in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, even if that was the case (and I'm aware it's only my opinion anyway) that doesn't mean he couldn't be a good manager. But it was a concern I had, nonetheless.
Now don't get me wrong, I realise he came into the club under very different circumstances to just about all of those before him - we were actually having a successful season when he took the reins. You can also argue that we were punching above our weight and that it was inevitable our form would suffer; fair enough points. That said, it's not like we haven't had some very winnable games in his short time in charge; Wimbledon at home should have been three points (we even led at half time!) and Stevenage - who could well be non-league next season - at home last night.
Furthermore, whilst it's obviously not an exact science, it's not unusual for new managers to have a "bounce" when they take charge. Garner has certainly not had one of those. He said he didn't want to rock the boat too much too soon, but we look completely unrecognisable from the side GC had put together - we look disjointed and clueless - and that's my biggest fear; had we have been playing well in the games and not getting the results, I'd have been amongst the first to defend him - but we haven't. In fact, in almost every game since he's taken over, we've been outplayed and very fortunate to come away with anything in the few games that we have. From memory we've scored something like one goal from open play in about 5 games?! Atrocious. And last night we didn't have a single shot against a side near the bottom of the league below us - and we were at home!
On a positive note his signings seem decent - but who knows how much of that is down to Widdrington?
Alarm bells were ringing when we appointed him - why had no-one else given this apparently highly sought-after coach the top gig before? It seemed a huge gamble. Currently I worry it will be an utterly catastrophic one. Garner seems to have very modern ideas that would maybe work well at a top-half Premiership club or one of Europe's elite; but I really do not see any proof that his philosophy will work at a League One club without a proverbial pot to p*ss in.
Obviously I only want Rovers to be successful and for that reason I pray I'm eating humble pie in the near future. But I am seriously concerned that Garner's tenure here will only end one way, and that will be before the end of the season and with us sitting much closer to the bottom of the League One table than the top of it.
All said and done, I really hope I'm wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 7:56:14 GMT
To be fair I didn’t expect a new manager “bounce” mainly because the circumstances were the complete opposite to whats usually happened when you get a new manager in the building.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jan 9, 2020 8:19:00 GMT
I think one of the issues he has faced is the dramatic loss of form from our two centre backs. both have made some fundamental errors since he joined us
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 8:20:22 GMT
To be fair I didn’t expect a new manager “bounce” mainly because the circumstances were the complete opposite to whats usually happened when you get a new manager in the building. Yes this is true and we are actually experiencing new manager slump. Time is key here as is some time for the poor bloke to actually get the whole squad together, sit them down and run through some processes. Education of the squad is currently being hindered (by bloody fixtures!) and therefore implementation is also suffering.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 8:21:12 GMT
I think one of the issues he has faced is the dramatic loss of form from our two centre backs. both have made some fundamental errors since he joined us Rollin needs a break, he has been thrust in and has done fantastically well up until the last couple of games.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 8:23:28 GMT
Very well put OP. Couldn't agree more.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jan 9, 2020 8:23:43 GMT
Obviously emotions were high last night (at least my end), so I thought I'd post a thread this morning to clarify. First, I don't want Garner sacked yet - I appreciate he does need longer to prove himself. That said, my worry is that time won't change anything (other than our league position continuing to worsen). When he got the job, he struck me as someone with a very good knowledge of the game who seemed a likeable enough chap. What he didn't strike me as was a manager. He didn't come across particularly authoritative or have much charisma in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, even if that was the case (and I'm aware it's only my opinion anyway) that doesn't mean he couldn't be a good manager. But it was a concern I had, nonetheless. Now don't get me wrong, I realise he came into the club under very different circumstances to just about all of those before him - we were actually having a successful season when he took the reins. You can also argue that we were punching above our weight and that it was inevitable our form would suffer; fair enough points. That said, it's not like we haven't had some very winnable games in his short time in charge; Wimbledon at home should have been three points (we even led at half time!) and Stevenage - who could well be non-league next season - at home last night. Furthermore, whilst it's obviously not an exact science, it's not unusual for new managers to have a "bounce" when they take charge. Garner has certainly not had one of those. He said he didn't want to rock the boat too much too soon, but we look completely unrecognisable from the side GC had put together - we look disjointed and clueless - and that's my biggest fear; had we have been playing well in the games and not getting the results, I'd have been amongst the first to defend him - but we haven't. In fact, in almost every game since he's taken over, we've been outplayed and very fortunate to come away with anything in the few games that we have. From memory we've scored something like one goal from open play in about 5 games?! Atrocious. And last night we didn't have a single shot against a side near the bottom of the league below us - and we were at home! On a positive note his signings seem decent - but who knows how much of that is down to Widdrington? Alarm bells were ringing when we appointed him - why had no-one else given this apparently highly sought-after coach the top gig before? It seemed a huge gamble. Currently I worry it will be an utterly catastrophic one. Garner seems to have very modern ideas that would maybe work well at a top-half Premiership club or one of Europe's elite; but I really do not see any proof that his philosophy will work at a League One club without a proverbial pot to p*ss in. Obviously I only want Rovers to be successful and for that reason I pray I'm eating humble pie in the near future. But I am seriously concerned that Garner's tenure here will only end one way, and that will be before the end of the season and with us sitting much closer to the bottom of the League One table than the top of it. All said and done, I really hope I'm wrong. Bradford offered him a job, when they were in league 1, the summer before they want down. Apparently he turned it down though, as he wasn't given the guarantees that he wanted. I agree it is a worry if he can make it as a manager and I don't know if he had the ruthless side needed etc. I'm going to give him time though. He's not had chance to take any proper training sessions yet. Been playing without some key midfielders, JCH has been playing unfit and Smith has been injured. So I think we would have had a bad run anyway. We might have picked more points with someone else in charge, but if we were going to gamble on someone like Garner, now was the time to do it. He has time to build the squad as he wants, before next season.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jan 9, 2020 8:25:15 GMT
I think one of the issues he has faced is the dramatic loss of form from our two centre backs. both have made some fundamental errors since he joined us Rollin needs a break, he has been thrust in and has done fantastically well up until the last couple of games. Agree but with Davies injured, that's not been an option. Same with some of the other player's out of form, or playing with knocks or slight injuries.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 8:27:18 GMT
Rollin needs a break, he has been thrust in and has done fantastically well up until the last couple of games. Agree but with Davies injured, that's not been an option. Same with some of the other player's out of form, or playing with knocks or slight injuries. Yeh not knocking his selection as it was out of necessity but he was doing well and least we now know we have a capable CB in our ranks. Sometimes these guys just drift away dont they. Good to see Davies back on the bench also.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jan 9, 2020 8:30:28 GMT
Agree but with Davies injured, that's not been an option. Same with some of the other player's out of form, or playing with knocks or slight injuries. Yeh not knocking his selection as it was out of necessity but he was doing well and least we now know we have a capable CB in our ranks. Sometimes these guys just drift away dont they. Good to see Davies back on the bench also. Think Rollin has always had a mistake in him. If he can get that out of his game, he will be a decent player.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jan 9, 2020 8:36:05 GMT
Yeh not knocking his selection as it was out of necessity but he was doing well and least we now know we have a capable CB in our ranks. Sometimes these guys just drift away dont they. Good to see Davies back on the bench also. Think Rollin has always had a mistake in him. If he can get that out of his game, he will be a decent player. "always had a mistake in him" "this was always going to happen as players tired". Funny how these things are always going to happen after the event. If you have all the winning lottery numbers for Saturday then I can always post you a cheque in the post after.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jan 9, 2020 8:41:53 GMT
Majority of fans of course are fully behind him. I've got used to your posts RD over the years and on the whole you are a fairly balanced poster. Just because you're clearly very unsure about him, does not mean you have written him off or not going to get behind him and the lads on a Saturday.
I think any Rovers fans who aren't at least a little concerned after the first few games, ought to wake up. There are very few positives to take so far. That isn't to say it can't start swinging back the way we want it to.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 9, 2020 8:42:19 GMT
Obviously emotions were high last night (at least my end), so I thought I'd post a thread this morning to clarify. First, I don't want Garner sacked yet - I appreciate he does need longer to prove himself. That said, my worry is that time won't change anything (other than our league position continuing to worsen). When he got the job, he struck me as someone with a very good knowledge of the game who seemed a likeable enough chap. What he didn't strike me as was a manager. He didn't come across particularly authoritative or have much charisma in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, even if that was the case (and I'm aware it's only my opinion anyway) that doesn't mean he couldn't be a good manager. But it was a concern I had, nonetheless. Now don't get me wrong, I realise he came into the club under very different circumstances to just about all of those before him - we were actually having a successful season when he took the reins. You can also argue that we were punching above our weight and that it was inevitable our form would suffer; fair enough points. That said, it's not like we haven't had some very winnable games in his short time in charge; Wimbledon at home should have been three points (we even led at half time!) and Stevenage - who could well be non-league next season - at home last night. Furthermore, whilst it's obviously not an exact science, it's not unusual for new managers to have a "bounce" when they take charge. Garner has certainly not had one of those. He said he didn't want to rock the boat too much too soon, but we look completely unrecognisable from the side GC had put together - we look disjointed and clueless - and that's my biggest fear; had we have been playing well in the games and not getting the results, I'd have been amongst the first to defend him - but we haven't. In fact, in almost every game since he's taken over, we've been outplayed and very fortunate to come away with anything in the few games that we have. From memory we've scored something like one goal from open play in about 5 games?! Atrocious. And last night we didn't have a single shot against a side near the bottom of the league below us - and we were at home! On a positive note his signings seem decent - but who knows how much of that is down to Widdrington? Alarm bells were ringing when we appointed him - why had no-one else given this apparently highly sought-after coach the top gig before? It seemed a huge gamble. Currently I worry it will be an utterly catastrophic one. Garner seems to have very modern ideas that would maybe work well at a top-half Premiership club or one of Europe's elite; but I really do not see any proof that his philosophy will work at a League One club without a proverbial pot to p*ss in. Obviously I only want Rovers to be successful and for that reason I pray I'm eating humble pie in the near future. But I am seriously concerned that Garner's tenure here will only end one way, and that will be before the end of the season and with us sitting much closer to the bottom of the League One table than the top of it. All said and done, I really hope I'm wrong. Bradford offered him a job, when they were in league 1, the summer before they want down. Apparently he turned it down though, as he wasn't given the guarantees that he wanted.
I agree it is a worry if he can make it as a manager and I don't know if he had the ruthless side needed etc. I'm going to give him time though. He's not had chance to take any proper training sessions yet. Been playing without some key midfielders, JCH has been playing unfit and Smith has been injured. So I think we would have had a bad run anyway. We might have picked more points with someone else in charge, but if we were going to gamble on someone like Garner, now was the time to do it. He has time to build the squad as he wants, before next season. I'd love to know what they were, what have our owners given him Bradford wouldn't, a total change in direction on how the football is played?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 8:51:05 GMT
Obviously emotions were high last night (at least my end), so I thought I'd post a thread this morning to clarify. First, I don't want Garner sacked yet - I appreciate he does need longer to prove himself. That said, my worry is that time won't change anything (other than our league position continuing to worsen). When he got the job, he struck me as someone with a very good knowledge of the game who seemed a likeable enough chap. What he didn't strike me as was a manager. He didn't come across particularly authoritative or have much charisma in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, even if that was the case (and I'm aware it's only my opinion anyway) that doesn't mean he couldn't be a good manager. But it was a concern I had, nonetheless. Now don't get me wrong, I realise he came into the club under very different circumstances to just about all of those before him - we were actually having a successful season when he took the reins. You can also argue that we were punching above our weight and that it was inevitable our form would suffer; fair enough points. That said, it's not like we haven't had some very winnable games in his short time in charge; Wimbledon at home should have been three points (we even led at half time!) and Stevenage - who could well be non-league next season - at home last night. Furthermore, whilst it's obviously not an exact science, it's not unusual for new managers to have a "bounce" when they take charge. Garner has certainly not had one of those. He said he didn't want to rock the boat too much too soon, but we look completely unrecognisable from the side GC had put together - we look disjointed and clueless - and that's my biggest fear; had we have been playing well in the games and not getting the results, I'd have been amongst the first to defend him - but we haven't. In fact, in almost every game since he's taken over, we've been outplayed and very fortunate to come away with anything in the few games that we have. From memory we've scored something like one goal from open play in about 5 games?! Atrocious. And last night we didn't have a single shot against a side near the bottom of the league below us - and we were at home! On a positive note his signings seem decent - but who knows how much of that is down to Widdrington? Alarm bells were ringing when we appointed him - why had no-one else given this apparently highly sought-after coach the top gig before? It seemed a huge gamble. Currently I worry it will be an utterly catastrophic one. Garner seems to have very modern ideas that would maybe work well at a top-half Premiership club or one of Europe's elite; but I really do not see any proof that his philosophy will work at a League One club without a proverbial pot to p*ss in. Obviously I only want Rovers to be successful and for that reason I pray I'm eating humble pie in the near future. But I am seriously concerned that Garner's tenure here will only end one way, and that will be before the end of the season and with us sitting much closer to the bottom of the League One table than the top of it. All said and done, I really hope I'm wrong. After all the crap you posted last night you should be relieved from your duties (mod my ass )
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 8:53:55 GMT
Obviously emotions were high last night (at least my end), so I thought I'd post a thread this morning to clarify. First, I don't want Garner sacked yet - I appreciate he does need longer to prove himself. That said, my worry is that time won't change anything (other than our league position continuing to worsen). When he got the job, he struck me as someone with a very good knowledge of the game who seemed a likeable enough chap. What he didn't strike me as was a manager. He didn't come across particularly authoritative or have much charisma in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, even if that was the case (and I'm aware it's only my opinion anyway) that doesn't mean he couldn't be a good manager. But it was a concern I had, nonetheless. Now don't get me wrong, I realise he came into the club under very different circumstances to just about all of those before him - we were actually having a successful season when he took the reins. You can also argue that we were punching above our weight and that it was inevitable our form would suffer; fair enough points. That said, it's not like we haven't had some very winnable games in his short time in charge; Wimbledon at home should have been three points (we even led at half time!) and Stevenage - who could well be non-league next season - at home last night. Furthermore, whilst it's obviously not an exact science, it's not unusual for new managers to have a "bounce" when they take charge. Garner has certainly not had one of those. He said he didn't want to rock the boat too much too soon, but we look completely unrecognisable from the side GC had put together - we look disjointed and clueless - and that's my biggest fear; had we have been playing well in the games and not getting the results, I'd have been amongst the first to defend him - but we haven't. In fact, in almost every game since he's taken over, we've been outplayed and very fortunate to come away with anything in the few games that we have. From memory we've scored something like one goal from open play in about 5 games?! Atrocious. And last night we didn't have a single shot against a side near the bottom of the league below us - and we were at home! On a positive note his signings seem decent - but who knows how much of that is down to Widdrington? Alarm bells were ringing when we appointed him - why had no-one else given this apparently highly sought-after coach the top gig before? It seemed a huge gamble. Currently I worry it will be an utterly catastrophic one. Garner seems to have very modern ideas that would maybe work well at a top-half Premiership club or one of Europe's elite; but I really do not see any proof that his philosophy will work at a League One club without a proverbial pot to p*ss in. Obviously I only want Rovers to be successful and for that reason I pray I'm eating humble pie in the near future. But I am seriously concerned that Garner's tenure here will only end one way, and that will be before the end of the season and with us sitting much closer to the bottom of the League One table than the top of it. All said and done, I really hope I'm wrong. After all the crap you posted last night you should be relieved from your duties (mod my ass ) Personally, I think 12 lashes of the birch are called for, the charge being "Ill considered and intemperate language"
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Post by Squiffy on Jan 9, 2020 9:21:06 GMT
It’s somewhat risible that Walsall fans have changed their tune after DC has strung together a few wins and I imagine that the same will happen on here, fingers crossed. I do think that BG has changed too much too soon (I.e. he shouldn’t have changed the attack and defence formations at the same time) and will come to realise that he has made a mistake in a month or two but is currently too full of self belief to see it.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jan 9, 2020 9:26:49 GMT
Think Rollin has always had a mistake in him. If he can get that out of his game, he will be a decent player. "always had a mistake in him" "this was always going to happen as players tired". Funny how these things are always going to happen after the event. If you have all the winning lottery numbers for Saturday then I can always post you a cheque in the post after. I said we would struggle with the games before them. So I'm hardly saying after the event! Made a decent profit off our games lately though.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jan 9, 2020 9:28:59 GMT
Bradford offered him a job, when they were in league 1, the summer before they want down. Apparently he turned it down though, as he wasn't given the guarantees that he wanted.
I agree it is a worry if he can make it as a manager and I don't know if he had the ruthless side needed etc. I'm going to give him time though. He's not had chance to take any proper training sessions yet. Been playing without some key midfielders, JCH has been playing unfit and Smith has been injured. So I think we would have had a bad run anyway. We might have picked more points with someone else in charge, but if we were going to gamble on someone like Garner, now was the time to do it. He has time to build the squad as he wants, before next season. I'd love to know what they were, what have our owners given him Bradford wouldn't, a total change in direction on how the football is played? Bradford already played good football and didn't do too badly the year before. He was giving a lack of assurances over control of the team.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 10:48:51 GMT
Bradford offered him a job, when they were in league 1, the summer before they want down. Apparently he turned it down though, as he wasn't given the guarantees that he wanted.
I agree it is a worry if he can make it as a manager and I don't know if he had the ruthless side needed etc. I'm going to give him time though. He's not had chance to take any proper training sessions yet. Been playing without some key midfielders, JCH has been playing unfit and Smith has been injured. So I think we would have had a bad run anyway. We might have picked more points with someone else in charge, but if we were going to gamble on someone like Garner, now was the time to do it. He has time to build the squad as he wants, before next season. I'd love to know what they were, what have our owners given him Bradford wouldn't, a total change in direction on how the football is played? I bet Bradford are laughing their tits off looking at our results under him. The big winners at the moment out of us, Coughlan and Mansfield are the teams who overlooked Garner for a job. At the end of the season Coughlan to Mansfield could look like one of the most disastrous managerial changes in British football, where everyone ended up on the losing side.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 10:51:41 GMT
It’s somewhat risible that Walsall fans have changed their tune after DC has strung together a few wins and I imagine that the same will happen on here, fingers crossed. I do think that BG has changed too much too soon (I.e. he shouldn’t have changed the attack and defence formations at the same time) and will come to realise that he has made a mistake in a month or two but is currently too full of self belief to see it. Hmm...maybe. But if so it really galls that our promotion campaign is being derailed because of a rookie's 'self-belief'. He really shouldn't have been given the opportunity to make these mistakes in the first place. Bring someone like that in close season and accept a season of experimentation, not when you have a tangible promotion opportunity to lose.
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