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Post by baggins on Jan 9, 2020 13:14:38 GMT
You may be right, but it is insulting to say people are relying on blind faith. There are plenty of factors at play at the moment to explain the current slump. Yep - fair point. I think there are several on here who are purely backing him based entirely on the fact he hasn't been in the job that long - and tbf, to an extent that's reasonable, don't get me wrong. I just want to see some kind of proof, very soon, that he's capable of doing a decent job here. At the moment, the only two things I can say are: 1) He hasn't been here very long (but that ultimately has absolutely no direct correlation on whether or not he's up to the task) 2) He talks well... but then I'd rather have someone who can walk the walk (which perhaps it will prove to be that he can) As it stands, I see nothing from Garner to fill me with any confidence and so all I can say is "he needs more time". The point I'm therefore trying to make is that giving him the benefit of the doubt is based largely on blind faith. He has no management record to compare back to; it's not like we can even say "well he made it work with [insert club here] so you never know". So FWIW, I'm not trying to insult people, I'm just saying that - logically IMO - given results have been poor, and he has no track record to look back on, all we can really presumably be pinning our hopes on is that he appears to talk a good game and that he hasn't had that many games to prove himself (but again, that doesn't guarantee he'll actually turn it round) - therefore there definitely appears to be a requirement to have at least some blind faith (as it stands). Keep the faith chap. We're still in the mix for playoffs, we're done with the crap Cup which everyone hates anyway, the 2 players he's brought in need more than one game to settle in, he'll be fine.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 13:14:43 GMT
The excuses mount up. The injuries,a bad day at the office,coventry are good,the tin pot cup dosnt matter,coughlan was lucky,no point in getting promoted anyway. I have a couple ready just in case Doncaster always beat us and the fa cup is not important. Well, Coventry are good, they're not 3rd for any other reason, we've got a thin squad so 4 games in 11 days is going to hit us, it IS a tin pot Cup and I for one am glad we're out of it, rather concentrate on Saturday and then enjoy a bit of dreaming for Tuesday. Coventry are right up the top of the league for the exact same reason we are or were.
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Post by baggins on Jan 9, 2020 13:16:12 GMT
Well, Coventry are good, they're not 3rd for any other reason, we've got a thin squad so 4 games in 11 days is going to hit us, it IS a tin pot Cup and I for one am glad we're out of it, rather concentrate on Saturday and then enjoy a bit of dreaming for Tuesday. Coventry are right up the top of the league for the exact same reason we are or were. A long way to go yet.
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Jan 9, 2020 13:17:40 GMT
Nice OP.
Personally speaking, I didn’t agree with the appointment of Garner - I thought he was the wrong profile of manager brought in at the wrong time.
HOWEVER, now the appointment has been made, which was clearly an appointment made with a view to the long-term, we have to give it time IMO. Certainly a lot longer than 17 days.
I always thought it was going to be a tough job for any external manager coming in. There was never going to be a ‘new manager bounce’ for a side that had just won away at 2nd in the league to go 4th. There just wasn’t.
Not to mention we’re currently suffering what must be one of our worst periods in terms of injury in a long, long time. It’s hardly surprising that we’re lacking the steel and bite of the GC days when the two players who gave us that bite and steel in midfield - Clarke & Ogogo - have barely been fit since BG arrived.
But the biggest reason of all to give this appointment time is that as of yet, the manager we hired has had almost no time at all to use what must be his biggest strength - his coaching. To appoint a Premier League level coach and then get on his back before he’s even been able to use his skillset properly is madness, IMO.
I understand the doubts (I have some of them myself) and I understand the unhappiness at seeing what was a very promising league position slip away since he got the job, but to call for Garner’s head now is perhaps the biggest knee-jerk reaction I can ever remember - even for our toys-out-the-pram fanbase.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Jan 9, 2020 13:37:40 GMT
You may be right, but it is insulting to say people are relying on blind faith. There are plenty of factors at play at the moment to explain the current slump. Yep - fair point. I think there are several on here who are purely backing him based entirely on the fact he hasn't been in the job that long - and tbf, to an extent that's reasonable, don't get me wrong. I just want to see some kind of proof, very soon, that he's capable of doing a decent job here. At the moment, the only two things I can say are: 1) He hasn't been here very long (but that ultimately has absolutely no direct correlation on whether or not he's up to the task) 2) He talks well... but then I'd rather have someone who can walk the walk (which perhaps it will prove to be that he can) As it stands, I see nothing from Garner to fill me with any confidence and so all I can say is "he needs more time". The point I'm therefore trying to make is that giving him the benefit of the doubt is based largely on blind faith. He has no management record to compare back to; it's not like we can even say "well he made it work with [insert club here] so you never know". So FWIW, I'm not trying to insult people, I'm just saying that - logically IMO - given results have been poor, and he has no track record to look back on, all we can really presumably be pinning our hopes on is that he appears to talk a good game and that he hasn't had that many games to prove himself (but again, that doesn't guarantee he'll actually turn it round) - therefore there definitely appears to be a requirement to have at least some blind faith (as it stands). There is logic to that, but the board clearly having made the appointment with the long term in mind, we have to give him the time and not just panic when things don’t immediately fall into place. There is a difference between ‘blind faith’ and giving someone the chance to succeed. If the general mood on here last night, is played out on the terraces then Garner will have very little chance as we have all seen what the Mem gets like if the crowd turn against a manager. It surprises and worries me that the feeling is so strong after a match in which he was clearly trying things, resting players, in a meaningless competition that hardly any fans wish to attend in any case. I think that when they appointed Garner, the board would have dropped any expectations of promotion this season. He’s a completely different character and we think he probably wants to play a different style of football. Of course it’s not impossible we could still get into the playoffs but I don’t believe the board would expect it. Logically then, we shouldn’t get on Garner’s back for the decision the board made. He can only now play the cards he has been dealt in his way. It could be a great time for Garner to build the squad the way he wants it, over two windows without a massive amount of pressure. That depends on other factors at the club, though and already we can see it might be a bumpy road to start with as fans, maybe rightly, think why haven’t the board gone all out to try and achieve promotion? He may succeed, he may fail, but logic dictates that he needs a fair bit of time to do what he has to do.
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Post by RD on Jan 9, 2020 13:37:53 GMT
Nice OP. Personally speaking, I didn’t agree with the appointment of Garner - I thought he was the wrong profile of manager brought in at the wrong time. HOWEVER, now the appointment has been made, which was clearly an appointment made with a view to the long-term, we have to give it time IMO. Certainly a lot longer than 17 days. I always thought it was going to be a tough job for any external manager coming in. There was never going to be a ‘new manager bounce’ for a side that had just won away at 2nd in the league to go 4th. There just wasn’t. Not to mention we’re currently suffering what must be one of our worst periods in terms of injury in a long, long time. It’s hardly surprising that we’re lacking the steel and bite of the GC days when the two players who gave us that bite and steel in midfield - Clarke & Ogogo - have barely been fit since BG arrived. But the biggest reason of all to give this appointment time is that as of yet, the manager we hired has had almost no time at all to use what must be his biggest strength - his coaching. To appoint a Premier League level coach and then get on his back before he’s even been able to use his skillset properly is madness, IMO. I understand the doubts (I have some of them myself) and I understand the unhappiness at seeing what was a very promising league position slip away since he got the job, but to call for Garner’s head now is perhaps the biggest knee-jerk reaction I can ever remember - even for our toys-out-the-pram fanbase. Fair shout, excellent points well made. Fingers crossed he turns it round - I hope he does for obvious reasons. That said, we really could do with getting that first win ASAP and unfortunately the upcoming fixtures do not look kind at all.
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Post by althepirate on Jan 9, 2020 13:42:33 GMT
It irritates me when fans find a million things wrong when a team loses game after game. Generally it's one reason, the Manager. Ok this guy hasn't been here five minutes so let's give him a chance, but how we can go from Ipswich to last night is amazing. Don't tell me it was a different team because Garner picked it. The only diff since Ipswich is Coughlan and Dunne leaving and Garner coming in so please don't give us a million other reasons cos there ain't any. Last night game was huge for the money and to maintain a winning attitude. Don't talk about the long term when the present was fine. Perhaps we, the fans, should leave it for two years until we go again, perhaps the fans should think long term. I fear no passion, strength or emotion just sterile rubbish. Really hope I'm wrong.
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Post by GasAttacK on Jan 9, 2020 14:18:15 GMT
Obviously emotions were high last night (at least my end), so I thought I'd post a thread this morning to clarify. First, I don't want Garner sacked yet - I appreciate he does need longer to prove himself. That said, my worry is that time won't change anything (other than our league position continuing to worsen). When he got the job, he struck me as someone with a very good knowledge of the game who seemed a likeable enough chap. What he didn't strike me as was a manager. He didn't come across particularly authoritative or have much charisma in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, even if that was the case (and I'm aware it's only my opinion anyway) that doesn't mean he couldn't be a good manager. But it was a concern I had, nonetheless. Now don't get me wrong, I realise he came into the club under very different circumstances to just about all of those before him - we were actually having a successful season when he took the reins. You can also argue that we were punching above our weight and that it was inevitable our form would suffer; fair enough points. That said, it's not like we haven't had some very winnable games in his short time in charge; Wimbledon at home should have been three points (we even led at half time!) and Stevenage - who could well be non-league next season - at home last night. Furthermore, whilst it's obviously not an exact science, it's not unusual for new managers to have a "bounce" when they take charge. Garner has certainly not had one of those. He said he didn't want to rock the boat too much too soon, but we look completely unrecognisable from the side GC had put together - we look disjointed and clueless - and that's my biggest fear; had we have been playing well in the games and not getting the results, I'd have been amongst the first to defend him - but we haven't. In fact, in almost every game since he's taken over, we've been outplayed and very fortunate to come away with anything in the few games that we have. From memory we've scored something like one goal from open play in about 5 games?! Atrocious. And last night we didn't have a single shot against a side near the bottom of the league below us - and we were at home! On a positive note his signings seem decent - but who knows how much of that is down to Widdrington? Alarm bells were ringing when we appointed him - why had no-one else given this apparently highly sought-after coach the top gig before? It seemed a huge gamble. Currently I worry it will be an utterly catastrophic one. Garner seems to have very modern ideas that would maybe work well at a top-half Premiership club or one of Europe's elite; but I really do not see any proof that his philosophy will work at a League One club without a proverbial pot to p*ss in. Obviously I only want Rovers to be successful and for that reason I pray I'm eating humble pie in the near future. But I am seriously concerned that Garner's tenure here will only end one way, and that will be before the end of the season and with us sitting much closer to the bottom of the League One table than the top of it. All said and done, I really hope I'm wrong. Spot on. Pretty much exactly how I feel.
Some of the fixtures we've had since he took charge - Wimbledon, MK Dons and Stevenage - look a lot easier than those we have coming up.
Depending on our progress in the FA Cup we have another 11 or 12 games before the end of February. Garner would have then been in charge for 16 or 17 games. I personally don't think he'll still be in charge come March 1st.
Like RoverDrive, just my opinion and I really hope he proves me wrong.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Jan 9, 2020 15:19:51 GMT
Everybody agrees that his start has been underwhelming. Also the next tranche of games all look tough. However, we need to be patient. He's only had 5 games.
If there hasn't been a turnaround after about 15 more games it might be necessary to seriously review his position. That will mean 20 games in charge and by that time we should all be able to assess his capabilities.
At present a win record of 0% is not acceptable but let's give him time.
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Post by sipirate on Jan 9, 2020 16:26:11 GMT
To bring in a manager with no experience whilst sat in 4th half way through a season is CRIMINAL! its not Ben Garner fault, he seems like a nice guy and clearly a good coach, manager, NO
Absolute CRIMINAL! dont blame him, blame the board. the rovers circus continues
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Post by sipirate on Jan 9, 2020 16:30:38 GMT
vs Fleetwood, 1 shot on target - vs Coventry 3 shots on target (2 of them being the goals from a pen and a set piece) vs MK dons 1 shot on target vs stevenage 0 shots on target
THIS CANNOT CONTINUE!
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gruad
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Post by gruad on Jan 9, 2020 16:30:50 GMT
This comment is not about bashing any manager. It's just a comment on "my" perceived observations of the last 3 managers. D Clarke =-
He was a gung ho attack minded manager whose game plan was to score more goals than he let in, regardless of how many he let in. It worked a treat due to mainly having a prolific striker in M Taylor and B Bodin and latterly Harrison. He won 2 successive promotions with an otherwise moderate squad of players because he got them motivated and playing with great spirit. Next the 3 striker above left and he didn't, couldn't or was unable to replace them. It cost the dressing room it's spirit and along with it DC his job. In the end his post match press releases showed I think stress got to him and he effectively got himself the "sack" by blaming everyone but himself. I think I have read DC has admitted this last sentence recently? Thanks for the memory! G Coughlan =- He was a defensive shut up shop minded manager, just what was needed to keep Rovers from being relegated. He motivated the defensive qualities of the team and brought back the team spirit with a never say die attitude. This worked a treat even with only 1 unfit striker in JCH. He left with the team on a high and perhaps if he had stayed and signed a goal scorer may have achieved the unthinkable and at the very least been in the playoff come the end of the season. Not that the squad was strong enough to have survived in the championship without major restructuring. It was fairly obvious to me GC had some personal problems towards the end from his public utterances. His often quoted statement "I'm a fighter not a quitter" rings a bit flat by his quitting, however I presume his personal reasons were an over riding influence on this? As GC would say " Thanks for the memory, Thanks for the memory"
BG=- to early to tell but I presume from his starting press comments he is a DC type manager and attack minded. The team held firm under temporary management until BG arrived. Team spirit seems to me to have evaporated at the moment and whilst BG states its evolution not revolution in playing style it doesn't seem reflected on the pitch? It doesn't seem to be a DC attack nor and GC defend team at the moment just a BG midfield muddle! Fans seems to be saying its a difficult time for BG to have taken over, Why? I would have thought 98% of managers take over with the team struggling at or near the relegation spots not flying high in the playoff spots. In the meantime I am backing the team the manager and the owners. I really do hope that when BG eventually leaves I will be saying Thanks for the memory That is an excellent analysis, I must say.
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Post by peterparker on Jan 9, 2020 16:45:54 GMT
It irritates me when fans find a million things wrong when a team loses game after game. Generally it's one reason, the Manager. Ok this guy hasn't been here five minutes so let's give him a chance, but how we can go from Ipswich to last night is amazing. Don't tell me it was a different team because Garner picked it. The only diff since Ipswich is Coughlan and Dunne leaving and Garner coming in so please don't give us a million other reasons cos there ain't any. Last night game was huge for the money and to maintain a winning attitude. Don't talk about the long term when the present was fine. Perhaps we, the fans, should leave it for two years until we go again, perhaps the fans should think long term. I fear no passion, strength or emotion just sterile rubbish. Really hope I'm wrong. Not every game under Coughlan was exactly Ipswich though was it
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Post by sipirate on Jan 9, 2020 17:01:29 GMT
whats everyones thoughts of 2 shots on target in open play in his last 4 games?
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Jan 9, 2020 17:26:40 GMT
whats everyones thoughts of 2 shots on target in open play in his last 4 games? Not very good. He’s clearly not had a great start to life here so far. You want our manager sacked after 17 days in charge, don’t you?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 17:27:38 GMT
whats everyones thoughts of 2 shots on target in open play in his last 4 games? is it 1 or 2? Make your mind up!
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Post by sipirate on Jan 9, 2020 17:46:00 GMT
whats everyones thoughts of 2 shots on target in open play in his last 4 games? is it 1 or 2? Make your mind up! Still deciding whether the deflected shot off an opposition player should count, torn between the two to be honest
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Post by sipirate on Jan 9, 2020 17:46:17 GMT
is it 1 or 2? Make your mind up! Still deciding whether the deflected shot off an opposition player should count, torn between the two to be honest Loving this attacking football by the way
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Post by sipirate on Jan 9, 2020 17:48:37 GMT
whats everyones thoughts of 2 shots on target in open play in his last 4 games? Not very good. He’s clearly not had a great start to life here so far. You want our manager sacked after 17 days in charge, don’t you? If he is winless after 10 games then yes, sack him and appoint mansell.. already I personally can see the players are not playing for him like they did with GC, this team were ready to run themselves into the ground for GC, with garner you can tell by his demeanor he is a WET WIPE
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Jan 9, 2020 17:51:50 GMT
Not very good. He’s clearly not had a great start to life here so far. You want our manager sacked after 17 days in charge, don’t you? If he is winless after 10 games then yes, sack him and appoint mansell.. already I personally can see the players are not playing for him like they did with GC, this team were ready to run themselves into the ground for GC, with garner you can tell by his demeanor he is a WET WIPE Just say it, you want him sacked now don’t you?
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