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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 26, 2020 12:05:37 GMT
Not sure if everybody is aware of this but Roy sadly passed away last(?) year. Rather than ask what the SC brings to the club perhaps more pertinent question is why is there such a divide between the club and the SC, something which never seems to have happened in the past?
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Post by Gassy on Jan 26, 2020 13:00:17 GMT
These were his questions. Why are gasincider & knowall given such information that no one else has? ( I do my own research from freely available chanels and from people I know will have factual knowledge of the subject matter - I cannot speak for gasincider or anyone else)Why do they really refuse to share the full story, whilst stroking themselves and the thoughts of attention? (Some facts are not mine to share and I do not betray confidences)Why do they continue to put a wedge in amongst the fans? (I do not understand the question)Why do they want the fans to not support the club? (I do want all fans to support the football club which I have supported for 72 years and for which I believe belongs to the fans first and foremost despite others from time to time having a majority shareholding)Why does gasincider lie and change his story? (Not for me to answer particularly as I have no knowledge of the story or even who gasincider is)Why doesn't the SC sit down with the club instead of trying legal action? ( I am not a member of the Supporters Club but I understand that their action was in response to a legal letter on behalf of the Football club and it is quite normal in my experience to have a solicitor act for you when responding to a legal action)What is the objective of the SC? (I am not a member of the Supporters Club and imagine their objectives will be in the appropriate section of their constitution)
I trust that the above is helpful?Thanks for your reply and answers. I'm curious, if you are given some "facts" (that's self-diagnosed btw, because I don't seem to remember anything you've told us being/coming true) but aren't allowed to give the whole story, why do you bother? Do you not see that drip feeding information without the whole story drives a wedge amongst the fan base, creates unrest and actually doesn't help the football club either? I genuinely don't understand your endpoint, do you think this actually helps?
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Post by knowall on Jan 26, 2020 14:28:00 GMT
Thanks for your reply and answers. I'm curious, if you are given some "facts" (that's self-diagnosed btw, because I don't seem to remember anything you've told us being/coming true) but aren't allowed to give the whole story, why do you bother? Do you not see that drip feeding information without the whole story drives a wedge amongst the fan base, creates unrest and actually doesn't help the football club either? I genuinely don't understand your endpoint, do you think this actually helps? Not sure what 'facts' you are referring to? Why bother? - I really care about our football club and having been around when the club has been 'on the brink' financially several times in the past and then helping the club build equity under the Dunfords for that equity seemingly disappearing - I am concerned. As for unrest amongst the fan base, I think matters like losing rather than winning and dropping places in the division and even style of play creates more angst than comments on a forum which is probably read by a couple of hundred fans at the most?
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Post by glengas on Jan 26, 2020 14:38:02 GMT
Thanks for your reply and answers. I'm curious, if you are given some "facts" (that's self-diagnosed btw, because I don't seem to remember anything you've told us being/coming true) but aren't allowed to give the whole story, why do you bother? Do you not see that drip feeding information without the whole story drives a wedge amongst the fan base, creates unrest and actually doesn't help the football club either? I genuinely don't understand your endpoint, do you think this actually helps? Not sure what 'facts' you are referring to? Why bother? - I really care about our football club and having been around when the club has been 'on the brink' financially several times in the past and then helping the club build equity under the Dunfords for that equity seemingly disappearing - I am concerned. As for unrest amongst the fan base, I think matters like losing rather than winning and dropping places in the division and even style of play creates more angst than comments on a forum which is probably read by a couple of hundred fans at the most? Blaming the ITK’s for the wedge between supporters and the football club is a bit of a stretch. Not telling the supporters the UWE had collapsed, the training ground had fallen through and a series of frustrating and evasive interviews from our board members over the last couple of years has done far ore damage than anything said on here.
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Post by madgas on Jan 26, 2020 14:44:18 GMT
Not sure what 'facts' you are referring to? Why bother? - I really care about our football club and having been around when the club has been 'on the brink' financially several times in the past and then helping the club build equity under the Dunfords for that equity seemingly disappearing - I am concerned. As for unrest amongst the fan base, I think matters like losing rather than winning and dropping places in the division and even style of play creates more angst than comments on a forum which is probably read by a couple of hundred fans at the most? Blaming the ITK’s for the wedge between supporters and the football club is a bit of a stretch. Not telling the supporters the UWE had collapsed, the training ground had fallen through and a series of frustrating and evasive interviews from our board members over the last couple of years has done far ore damage than anything said on here. 90% agree. I do feel they assisted the rot with DC. You could hear in Darrells interviews that he was getting two messages and did not know what to believe.
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Post by madgas on Jan 26, 2020 14:45:49 GMT
Blaming the ITK’s for the wedge between supporters and the football club is a bit of a stretch. Not telling the supporters the UWE had collapsed, the training ground had fallen through and a series of frustrating and evasive interviews from our board members over the last couple of years has done far ore damage than anything said on here. 90% agree. I do feel they assisted the rot with DC. You could hear in Darrells interviews that he was getting two messages and did not know what to believe. And would add- telling its still not a reason to challenge their "untrue" predictions/ claims.
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Post by althepirate on Jan 26, 2020 15:05:08 GMT
Not sure if everybody is aware of this but Roy sadly passed away last(?) year. Rather than ask what the SC brings to the club perhaps more pertinent question is why is there such a divide between the club and the SC, something which never seems to have happened in the past? Have you never heard of the True Blue Club Topper?
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 26, 2020 15:10:25 GMT
Not sure if everybody is aware of this but Roy sadly passed away last(?) year. Rather than ask what the SC brings to the club perhaps more pertinent question is why is there such a divide between the club and the SC, something which never seems to have happened in the past? Have you never heard of the True Blue Club Topper? Before my time TBH that must be 50+ years ago?
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 26, 2020 15:19:27 GMT
Blaming the ITK’s for the wedge between supporters and the football club is a bit of a stretch. Not telling the supporters the UWE had collapsed, the training ground had fallen through and a series of frustrating and evasive interviews from our board members over the last couple of years has done far ore damage than anything said on here. 90% agree. I do feel they assisted the rot with DC. You could hear in Darrells interviews that he was getting two messages and did not know what to believe. GC's post match Ipswich interview also suggested similar issues. "I don't know how far I can take this club".
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Jan 26, 2020 16:03:51 GMT
Didn't someone on here run for a SC post a few years ago on the back of not being part of the current clique and was resoundingly defeated? It was then then official forum poster Rod Chapman, who sadly passed away since. I may have the surname wrong but I’m hoping not.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 27, 2020 0:27:40 GMT
Blaming the ITK’s for the wedge between supporters and the football club is a bit of a stretch. Not telling the supporters the UWE had collapsed, the training ground had fallen through and a series of frustrating and evasive interviews from our board members over the last couple of years has done far ore damage than anything said on here. 90% agree. I do feel they assisted the rot with DC. You could hear in Darrells interviews that he was getting two messages and did not know what to believe. That’s because there was Hamer and his crew just like they are on here and MS and Co actually running the club. As evidenced by the players we cannot shift because of the sums they are on, it’s not as if DC didn’t have the evidence that he was backed. He got pretty much everything he asked for bar a training ground.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 27, 2020 0:35:13 GMT
I think all the things that mtfc notes are very valid contributions but not what I would expect first on the list of things I’d expect a supporters club to be doing, and what I would like for them to be doing. The biggest gap with our supporters club in my eyes is acting as a pressure group towards the club. Demanding information on important matters that affect the clubs future and sharing as much of it as possible with us supporters. Dialoguing with supporters to find out what those important matters are and not assuming. Seems to me the current supporters club wasn’t doing that until their boy got kicked out of his honorary post doing...not a lot. I’d like them to do something about things that actually matter instead. If they can’t or won’t do it there’s room for a group that will instead. Doesn’t have to be a conflicting relationship with the club a healthy scenario is where the relationship is a close and healthy one full of respect where the club doesn’t feel it necessary to ban members from the boxes. I think we need a SC. But it needs a good freshening up within its existing guise. Bringing it in house means it could still operate with volunteers but with greater autonomy and freedom than before. It could take advantage of more marketing expertise, more commercial opportunity and give the club an interest in working with it. It would actually work both ways.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 0:45:50 GMT
90% agree. I do feel they assisted the rot with DC. You could hear in Darrells interviews that he was getting two messages and did not know what to believe. That’s because there was Hamer and his crew just like they are on here and MS and Co actually running the club. As evidenced by the players we cannot shift because of the sums they are on, it’s not as if DC didn’t have the evidence that he was backed. He got pretty much everything he asked for bar a training ground. See i think dc thought the owners were the real deal and he would get the backing he needed to take the club into the championship with bodin,brown and harrison on board. Instead he got some of the money from the sale of taylor,bodin and harrison. He spent that percentage of the sales badly as we know but thats another issue. You imply that he was given a blank cheque to sign players conveniently forgetting he sold his best players because the owners were not in fact the people they made out they were. All clubs have to sell but we were selling to modest clubs that wael made out we would be competing with.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 27, 2020 8:22:34 GMT
That’s because there was Hamer and his crew just like they are on here and MS and Co actually running the club. As evidenced by the players we cannot shift because of the sums they are on, it’s not as if DC didn’t have the evidence that he was backed. He got pretty much everything he asked for bar a training ground. See i think dc thought the owners were the real deal and he would get the backing he needed to take the club into the championship with bodin,brown and harrison on board. Instead he got some of the money from the sale of taylor,bodin and harrison. He spent that percentage of the sales badly as we know but thats another issue. You imply that he was given a blank cheque to sign players conveniently forgetting he sold his best players because the owners were not in fact the people they made out they were. All clubs have to sell but we were selling to modest clubs that wael made out we would be competing with. I don't get how the forum mods seems to imply everything is fine at the club, when two managers have left both saying more or the less the same thing, meanwhile we're the only team not to score in 2020, are losing £2m+ a season, have debts exceeding £10m+ and zero signs of a new ground or training ground, attendance dropping like a stone. But I guess this is all down to the ITK'ers being a bit mischievous with what they post nothing at all to do with the way Wael is running the club.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 27, 2020 8:55:01 GMT
See i think dc thought the owners were the real deal and he would get the backing he needed to take the club into the championship with bodin,brown and harrison on board. Instead he got some of the money from the sale of taylor,bodin and harrison. He spent that percentage of the sales badly as we know but thats another issue. You imply that he was given a blank cheque to sign players conveniently forgetting he sold his best players because the owners were not in fact the people they made out they were. All clubs have to sell but we were selling to modest clubs that wael made out we would be competing with. I don't get how the forum mods seems to imply everything is fine at the club, when two managers have left both saying more or the less the same thing, meanwhile we're the only team not to score in 2020, are losing £2m+ a season, have debts exceeding £10m+ and zero signs of a new ground or training ground, attendance dropping like a stone. But I guess this is all down to the ITK'ers being a bit mischievous with what they post nothing at all to do with the way Wael is running the club. We aren’t pretending it’s rosy we aren’t blind to the debts and loses and the poor leadership that essentially was the responsibility of our chairman. The ALQs have been let down just as badly by the people they appointed to help run us as us fans have been. But you are also clouding some of the facts. If you remember DC had spent his way to the bottom of the budget, he wanted more money but we were 23rd in L1. That’s why he left. I don’t think he would have been given the sack if we were 10th do you? He was given all the backroom staff he needed/wanted. All the assistants and coaches he wanted. It’s not as if he was deprived considering that just half a season before the ALQs came in he was managing a conference side to the top half of the division. GC has his head turned by a job around the corner. You cannot give any serious credence to an overly emotional post match interview. Given the suggestion from some at the time that come the following morning he had realised what a mistake he had made but he had made his bed. We don’t know the context of how he was speaking because he hadn’t said. But he was Mansfield or bust from the minute his lips slipped in that interview. The alternative options of people who are available to run the club quite frankly scare the life out of me. If you really think a dynamic which involves a 3rd party ownership by a entertainment company currently making a loss on their accounts sheet which has Steve Hamer and Ken Masters involved as well then please supply evidence why it’s a good idea. Especially when you consider that both of Hamers bite at the cherry of running a football club with us and Swansea has been totally disastrous.
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Post by peterparker on Jan 27, 2020 10:43:05 GMT
See i think dc thought the owners were the real deal and he would get the backing he needed to take the club into the championship with bodin,brown and harrison on board. Instead he got some of the money from the sale of taylor,bodin and harrison. He spent that percentage of the sales badly as we know but thats another issue. You imply that he was given a blank cheque to sign players conveniently forgetting he sold his best players because the owners were not in fact the people they made out they were. All clubs have to sell but we were selling to modest clubs that wael made out we would be competing with. I don't get how the forum mods seems to imply everything is fine at the club, when two managers have left both saying more or the less the same thing, meanwhile we're the only team not to score in 2020, are losing £2m+ a season, have debts exceeding £10m+ and zero signs of a new ground or training ground, attendance dropping like a stone. But I guess this is all down to the ITK'ers being a bit mischievous with what they post nothing at all to do with the way Wael is running the club. You dont have to think everything is fine to question what 'game' some people are playing A lot of all mouth and no trousers. How many times have we heard about impending doom at the club for the last couple of years, yet here we are still standing People need to put up some facts and not talk in riddles or shut the f up. Know use telling us I told you so in future when they havent actually told us anything to begin with
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Post by chewbacca on Jan 27, 2020 10:49:21 GMT
Is it not the case that we're somewhere in the middle? Since purchasing The Mem on and off the pitch (bar a couple of highlights) we've stunk of mediocrity. You can't say at any point we've been run well, but at the same time it's not been absolutely woeful. Same goes for on the pitch which has been distinctly meh. The whole club seems to be floating about with no real direction, my issue is we'll get to the point where 30 years of mediocrity actually leaves us miles behind the level needed to continue to achieve mediocrity.
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Post by toddy1953 on Jan 27, 2020 10:50:00 GMT
I don't get how the forum mods seems to imply everything is fine at the club, when two managers have left both saying more or the less the same thing, meanwhile we're the only team not to score in 2020, are losing £2m+ a season, have debts exceeding £10m+ and zero signs of a new ground or training ground, attendance dropping like a stone. But I guess this is all down to the ITK'ers being a bit mischievous with what they post nothing at all to do with the way Wael is running the club. We aren’t pretending it’s rosy we aren’t blind to the debts and loses and the poor leadership that essentially was the responsibility of our chairman. The ALQs have been let down just as badly by the people they appointed to help run us as us fans have been. But you are also clouding some of the facts. If you remember DC had spent his way to the bottom of the budget, he wanted more money but we were 23rd in L1. That’s why he left. I don’t think he would have been given the sack if we were 10th do you? He was given all the backroom staff he needed/wanted. All the assistants and coaches he wanted. It’s not as if he was deprived considering that just half a season before the ALQs came in he was managing a conference side to the top half of the division. GC has his head turned by a job around the corner. You cannot give any serious credence to an overly emotional post match interview. Given the suggestion from some at the time that come the following morning he had realised what a mistake he had made but he had made his bed. We don’t know the context of how he was speaking because he hadn’t said. But he was Mansfield or bust from the minute his lips slipped in that interview. The alternative options of people who are available to run the club quite frankly scare the life out of me. If you really think a dynamic which involves a 3rd party ownership by a entertainment company currently making a loss on their accounts sheet which has Steve Hamer and Ken Masters involved as well then please supply evidence why it’s a good idea. Especially when you consider that both of Hamers bite at the cherry of running a football club with us and Swansea has been totally disastrous. Sounds like a bad workman blaming his tools. Always someone else’s fault. I bet DS accounts sheets look pretty impressive too, I expect. It’s time the ALQs took responsibility for their own failings & either sh1t or get off the pot.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 27, 2020 12:07:36 GMT
We aren’t pretending it’s rosy we aren’t blind to the debts and loses and the poor leadership that essentially was the responsibility of our chairman. The ALQs have been let down just as badly by the people they appointed to help run us as us fans have been. But you are also clouding some of the facts. If you remember DC had spent his way to the bottom of the budget, he wanted more money but we were 23rd in L1. That’s why he left. I don’t think he would have been given the sack if we were 10th do you? He was given all the backroom staff he needed/wanted. All the assistants and coaches he wanted. It’s not as if he was deprived considering that just half a season before the ALQs came in he was managing a conference side to the top half of the division. GC has his head turned by a job around the corner. You cannot give any serious credence to an overly emotional post match interview. Given the suggestion from some at the time that come the following morning he had realised what a mistake he had made but he had made his bed. We don’t know the context of how he was speaking because he hadn’t said. But he was Mansfield or bust from the minute his lips slipped in that interview. The alternative options of people who are available to run the club quite frankly scare the life out of me. If you really think a dynamic which involves a 3rd party ownership by a entertainment company currently making a loss on their accounts sheet which has Steve Hamer and Ken Masters involved as well then please supply evidence why it’s a good idea. Especially when you consider that both of Hamers bite at the cherry of running a football club with us and Swansea has been totally disastrous. Sounds like a bad workman blaming his tools. Always someone else’s fault. I bet DS accounts sheets look pretty impressive too, I expect. It’s time the ALQs took responsibility for their own failings & either sh1t or get off the pot. People aren’t tools where they are only as good as the operator. I’ve got a lathe down in my workshop, fantastic piece of kit, it will make all sorts of great stuff, in my hands though it’s useless. I don’t know how to operate it, I’ve never had the training or qualifications to do so. But one of the guys who works for me is an absolute genius on it. Capability plays a huge part. The owners put a management structure in when they took over. That management structure, for whatever reason didn’t work properly and it’s capability was lacking and contributed to the situation we have now. Thankfully we have TG who’s a young and dynamic commercial director who now has the freedom to operate in the capacity he should have had from the beginning and an experienced football CEO alongside him. Which is something we all said we needed in 2007. However the responsibility for that structure does lie with the family and I’m stunned it took as long as it did for the axe to finally fall. I would have acted sooner, but then I don’t know all the facts and reasons why it didn’t.
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Post by swissgas on Jan 27, 2020 14:54:35 GMT
I don't get how the forum mods seems to imply everything is fine at the club, when two managers have left both saying more or the less the same thing, meanwhile we're the only team not to score in 2020, are losing £2m+ a season, have debts exceeding £10m+ and zero signs of a new ground or training ground, attendance dropping like a stone. But I guess this is all down to the ITK'ers being a bit mischievous with what they post nothing at all to do with the way Wael is running the club. We aren’t pretending it’s rosy we aren’t blind to the debts and loses and the poor leadership that essentially was the responsibility of our chairman. The ALQs have been let down just as badly by the people they appointed to help run us as us fans have been. But you are also clouding some of the facts. If you remember DC had spent his way to the bottom of the budget, he wanted more money but we were 23rd in L1. That’s why he left. I don’t think he would have been given the sack if we were 10th do you? He was given all the backroom staff he needed/wanted. All the assistants and coaches he wanted. It’s not as if he was deprived considering that just half a season before the ALQs came in he was managing a conference side to the top half of the division. GC has his head turned by a job around the corner. You cannot give any serious credence to an overly emotional post match interview. Given the suggestion from some at the time that come the following morning he had realised what a mistake he had made but he had made his bed. We don’t know the context of how he was speaking because he hadn’t said. But he was Mansfield or bust from the minute his lips slipped in that interview. The alternative options of people who are available to run the club quite frankly scare the life out of me. If you really think a dynamic which involves a 3rd party ownership by a entertainment company currently making a loss on their accounts sheet which has Steve Hamer and Ken Masters involved as well then please supply evidence why it’s a good idea. Especially when you consider that both of Hamers bite at the cherry of running a football club with us and Swansea has been totally disastrous. Can you tell us the name of this entertainment company ?
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