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Post by lpgas on Feb 14, 2020 19:18:25 GMT
I really like the theory of bringing on young signings,loans and academy players as a way of improving the viability of the playing side of the club. Also the idea of a high line and energy pressing style out of possession and a pass and move with width method is very attractive. I hope garner is given more time to make the dream get somewhere near to reality and if he goes i hope we appoint a like minded manager. Loans are of no use at all except in an emergency or to fill a hole. As DC often said "why should we train other clubs players? And lets say you built a successful tea with 2 loan players in it, and then come January their clubs want them back, again we could drop down the league. Your own players / team should be the ones that bring you success, but then again if you want to remain in Division one selling your best players every season I would say that is a total lack of ambition. Peterborough do it, and how long have they been in division one?
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Post by twertonboy on Feb 14, 2020 19:29:29 GMT
The trouble is you can’t say players played better under GC than BG as you can say these players can’t keep up their performances all season as the quality isn’t there compared to the likes of Coventry, You can’t say it’s fact that GC was the reason they played well then, Ollie has been In and out of form for a while which is why it was weird to make him captain
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Post by completewingback on Feb 14, 2020 19:32:22 GMT
I'll go with BG vision because, as I keep saying, GC left us out of his own volition. We didn't sack him. So it was always going to end with us at 4th and him leaving to Mansfield.
Whether BG is really the one we should've gone after, well, that's another conversation entirely...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 19:38:16 GMT
I really like the theory of bringing on young signings,loans and academy players as a way of improving the viability of the playing side of the club. Also the idea of a high line and energy pressing style out of possession and a pass and move with width method is very attractive. I hope garner is given more time to make the dream get somewhere near to reality and if he goes i hope we appoint a like minded manager. Loans are of no use at all except in an emergency or to fill a hole. As DC often said "why should we train other clubs players? And lets say you built a successful tea with 2 loan players in it, and then come January their clubs want them back, again we could drop down the league. Your own players / team should be the ones that bring you success, but then again if you want to remain in Division one selling your best players every season I would say that is a total lack of ambition. Peterborough do it, and how long have they been in division one? I think all clubs use the loan system nowadays from the premier league to league 2 so if you like it or not we will be bringing in and loaning players out just as our rivals will be. With peterborough virtually every season for at least 20 years they have finished above us as well as having 2 championship seasons[2010 and 2013] despite getting smaller crowds than rovers. Every club sells its best players including man utd,liverpool,southampton,bristol city,barnsley,luton etc etc. The trick for us is initially to become a barnsley,coventry or peterborough and then move onto becoming say a preston north end.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Feb 14, 2020 20:01:20 GMT
I can see both sets of opinions.
If I had to decide now I'd go with GC. It was turgid football but we were in with a real opportunity of Championship football. It's been a very long time since we were in the second tier.
However, in a year's time I might think differently if BG is still here. What is clear to me is that the current squad were at ease with GC's style of play. They are clearly unsuited to BG's vision. To deliver that we need fitter and more skilful players. That means a mass clear out in the summer.
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Post by rememberhalifax on Feb 14, 2020 20:13:12 GMT
I think the only way forward for clubs like ours is to develop and give our own youngsters the chance to make it , of course this means the ones who make it and excel will be sold after a couple of seasons and some will be given the chance but will not quite make it at the level we are currently at ,and will have to be moved on, but as long as they were given the opportunity then fair enough. I think Ollie is at the latter stage now and rest of season is make or break for him at this level, hope he makes it but have my doubts. Disappointed that following window a couple of our own have been pushed down the pecking order, Tomlinson for one, unless of course he is injured, have high hopes for him and one or two others. I am of the opinion that with the window signings and some of our own the future is much brighter under BG and believe his philosophy is the way forward. I have no axe to grind with GC and he has my respect for what he achieved, he was the right man for the moment and employed the right tactics for the situation we were in and i shall be for ever grateful for the job he did to keep us up, getting us to fourth was a remarkable achievement and i think he knew deep down that it was not sustainable, and took the chance to go while his stock was so high, i for one did not think we could stay in the top six and fully expected us to finish a still credible 10,11,12 or there about. So its the BG way for me even if we have to have the run we are on now before things get better, but if i may just throw a spanner in the theory , I noticed our neighbours found themselves 3-0 up the other night from 33% possession! up the Rovers, funny old game in it!
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Post by dukegas on Feb 14, 2020 20:33:28 GMT
Latter for me, would not want GC style to watch , no fun at all.
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Post by landrover on Feb 14, 2020 23:03:26 GMT
What would you rather have Let’s just say GC stayed and even with the 8 injuries he kept us up there but we just missed out on the play offs, We then stick with the same players and probably reward them new contracts. It’s still defensive and shocking to watch but we scraped by. Or Garner’s situation now and we start playing more entertaining football and get rid of the likes of upson and Clarke and filled their places with younger more technical players and progressed to play a good level of football and see where it takes us? Personally I’m the latter, if upson and co are there next season I can’t see me renewing my season ticket and would be first time in 9 years to not buy one. Personally our midfield is our main issue and it’s been proven not consistent enough to be in the top ten and pushing for promotion, If garner is kept on which I’m sure he will be unless he walks out not next season but the season after we will be up there and in good shape There is two obvious scenarios you’ve overlooked. There was every chance we could have maintained a promotion push and even been promoted automatically. This year is not a good season(as Wycombe have proved). Three big teams, Sunderland, Portsmouth and Ipswich, have been inconsistent and the opportunity has been there to make a mark in this division. Regarding Garner, why does more technical players equate to entertaining football? It’s the pace of play that’s the key, not the ability to do keepy uppies 200 times. Genuine youth academies cost a lot of money and the return wouldn’t be apparent for another 5 years. No manager gets 5 years unless the first team is winning. And that’s the second scenario. We stay in free fall and gates collapse and revenue dries up. I’ve highlighted the two extremes admittedly. We’ll never know the first but the second is still on the cards.
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Post by socrates on Feb 14, 2020 23:59:32 GMT
I think the only way forward for clubs like ours is to develop and give our own youngsters the chance to make it , of course this means the ones who make it and excel will be sold after a couple of seasons and some will be given the chance but will not quite make it at the level we are currently at ,and will have to be moved on, but as long as they were given the opportunity then fair enough. I think Ollie is at the latter stage now and rest of season is make or break for him at this level, hope he makes it but have my doubts. Disappointed that following window a couple of our own have been pushed down the pecking order, Tomlinson for one, unless of course he is injured, have high hopes for him and one or two others. I am of the opinion that with the window signings and some of our own the future is much brighter under BG and believe his philosophy is the way forward. I have no axe to grind with GC and he has my respect for what he achieved, he was the right man for the moment and employed the right tactics for the situation we were in and i shall be for ever grateful for the job he did to keep us up, getting us to fourth was a remarkable achievement and i think he knew deep down that it was not sustainable, and took the chance to go while his stock was so high, i for one did not think we could stay in the top six and fully expected us to finish a still credible 10,11,12 or there about. So its the BG way for me even if we have to have the run we are on now before things get better, but if i may just throw a spanner in the theory , I noticed our neighbours found themselves 3-0 up the other night from 33% possession! up the Rovers, funny old game in it! Where as we had 5 great chances in the first 15 minutes , squandered them all and drew 0-0. I agree with most of what you say except I think we’d have finished top 6 if Coughlan had stayed. 2nd in the league 1 form table over the 12 months suggests that, and 12 unbeaten didn’t suggest there was anything going wrong. Doesn’t matter now because he’s gone and we haven’t won a game of football since so it’s the” BG way “ as you put it for all of us whether we like it or not , or of course walk away but if we do that then what ? Come back when things pick up ? No ta. Hopefully we can finally get that win tomorrow but having just sacked their boss that’s just about as big a setback we could have had pre- game as anything . When it’s not going for you nothing seems to go for you. After Blackpool , Sunderland away.
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Post by brads213 on Feb 15, 2020 9:08:56 GMT
No brained has to be GC results are what counts
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Post by brads213 on Feb 15, 2020 9:10:28 GMT
What would you rather have Let’s just say GC stayed and even with the 8 injuries he kept us up there but we just missed out on the play offs, We then stick with the same players and probably reward them new contracts. It’s still defensive and shocking to watch but we scraped by. Or Garner’s situation now and we start playing more entertaining football and get rid of the likes of upson and Clarke and filled their places with younger more technical players and progressed to play a good level of football and see where it takes us? Personally I’m the latter, if upson and co are there next season I can’t see me renewing my season ticket and would be first time in 9 years to not buy one. Personally our midfield is our main issue and it’s been proven not consistent enough to be in the top ten and pushing for promotion, If garner is kept on which I’m sure he will be unless he walks out not next season but the season after we will be up there and in good shape Don't think 3-4 at Shrewsbury was shocking, nor Southend 4-2 or even Ipswich 2-1, or Accrington 3-3. Notice the difference? GC team scored GOALS and WON games, but don't let the truth get in the way of your agenda Exactly GC got good results with goals goals goals , does BG know what a goal is
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Post by Okebournegas on Feb 15, 2020 10:33:01 GMT
GC , glad he went , couldn’t stand him or his football I know it’s a results business but his whole demeanour never sat well with me as I just couldn’t take to the guy , being honest my dislike for him probably clouded my judgement a bit in terms of our position and how well he actually did. ( still can’t stand him though ) BG , I don’t why , and based on nothing , I think will turn our current rubbish form around and take us forward , again this is just a bizarre hunch , nothing more nothing less. For what it’s worth , I think we’ll win today and win well then that will be the start of a run.
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Post by dragonfly on Feb 15, 2020 11:06:48 GMT
Fill my eyes with Ben Garner vision. Ain't no disguise with Ben Garner vision. Foreigner Tactical Periodisation.
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 15, 2020 11:16:13 GMT
GC , glad he went , couldn’t stand him or his football I know it’s a results business but his whole demeanour never sat well with me as I just couldn’t take to the guy , being honest my dislike for him probably clouded my judgement a bit in terms of our position and how well he actually did. ( still can’t stand him though ) BG , I don’t why , and based on nothing , I think will turn our current rubbish form around and take us forward , again this is just a bizarre hunch , nothing more nothing less. For what it’s worth , I think we’ll win today and win well then that will be the start of a run. Likeable character or not GC got results, I think is main problem is that he replaced probably the most likeable manager we've ever had in DC, if GC had replaced Buckle or McGoo we'd have probably taken to him far more. As far as BG, like Trollope, even Buckle at the start, in the past he seems a likeable manager but at the end of the day it's results which matter not being the nicest manager in football.
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Post by kentgas on Feb 15, 2020 12:21:56 GMT
Buckle was never likeable!
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Post by pucklegas on Feb 15, 2020 21:46:31 GMT
BG will be a big success next season and will be poached by a top 10 championship club, his doubters on here will then be in a meltdown. Everyone talks about his attention to detail, all you doubters wait and see when he has prepped the squad he wants.
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Post by aghast on Feb 15, 2020 22:28:53 GMT
BG will be a big success next season and will be poached by a top 10 championship club, his doubters on here will then be in a meltdown. Everyone talks about his attention to detail, all you doubters wait and see when he has prepped the squad he wants. Oh blimey here we go. Now he's the saviour. One win! I don't want him sacked, and never did, but he's not walking on water yet.
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Post by socrates on Feb 15, 2020 23:12:21 GMT
Time and patience needed. someone put some stats on here earlier that clearly show that we are improving , regardless of the fact that we got 3pts today. We’re controlling games creating more chances , it’s taken time , I said it would take time , and at least one transfer window possibly 2 or 3 for us to even find out if Garner can be successful in the long term. It’ still very early days in terms of bringing in a completely different kind of manager who wants to play a completely different style of football. I wouldn’t be surprised if we get done 4-0 at Sunderland next week. We either need to be patient and supportive or not bother , that’s where we are. No point in winging.
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Post by leexbx on Feb 17, 2020 13:31:27 GMT
I was pleased with the defence under GC we looked very solid but gawd it was boring
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 13:49:03 GMT
While we were in a good league position when GC left, there were no guarantees that it would continue. However, let's assume it did. Do you think that the style GC played would have either a/got promotion or b/been able to make us survive in the Championship? Personally, I think the style of BG's team would have a much better chance of survival in the Championship. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture? BG needs another transfer window. Let's see what emerges from that.
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