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Post by LJG on Apr 29, 2020 16:32:42 GMT
When I wrote that line I had a twinkle in my eye Hugo and thought about adding one of those emoticons to it. Because when someone starts shooting wildly at the messenger you know the message is getting through and the recipient is becoming jittery. But I didn't add that smiley face because the slow demise of Rovers isn't a laughing matter for any of us. There is no muddying of the waters. The question was asked "it has been suggested that money is being taken from Rovers to prop up another of the families assets. Although not illegal -- Can anyone substantiate this ?". The answer is yes, and it couldn't be made any clearer because it is written in the BRFC 1883 Ltd 2018 audited accounts.We can argue all day about it but the fact remains that BRFC has paid out money on behalf of Dwane Colony Ltd, which is a separate company, and Dwane Colony Ltd has not repaid Rovers. If the brothers jointly owned a hot dog stand in downtown St Helier, called Dwane's Delicious Dogs Ltd, I guess some fans would be quite happy for Rovers to buy the hot dogs in Bristol (because they were cheaper) and ship them out to Jersey but then not get paid for them ? I don't know any of the "scapegoats" regularly brought up on the forums other than John Harding whom I haven't seen or spoken to for over 25 years. The same applied in the previous era of "scapegoating" when I could safely say I had never met Kevin or any of the others who were vilified by some for wanting Rovers to do better. My views are purely my own. On this specific issue perhaps fans could ponder what they would do if they were in an ownership position. a) I own the businesses so I can do whatever I like b) I owe it to these people to make all transactions between the companies squeaky clean. Rupert Murdoch gets his headline. You write the rest of the essays to be ignored because you know your position is nonsense and any proper scrutiny of them will expose that. The Colony isn't its own trade is it? And it wasn't purchased for the purposes of the Al Qadis' personal wealth was it? So the comparison with a hotdog stand is, again, fallacious - which you know, you just hope other people won't figure that out. The idea that the club carrying debt to the owners creates a divide against which the faithful must stand is as stupid as saying you should divorce your wife because she has a credit card. It's just bollocks that ignores the running of every other professional football club in the country bar about 4.
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Post by madgas on Apr 29, 2020 17:42:57 GMT
Well your post either displays that: a) You don't know anything about group company accounting; or b) You do, but have deliberately misrepresented that understanding in a fundamental way to catch the eye of those less well informed. Just like the headlines in The Sun. In fact nearly all of your posts display the same thing. So which is it? You don't know what you're taking about? Or you do but you post in a deliberately disingenuous way such as to generate ill feeling towards the clubs owners? Dwane Colony Ltd, which owns the land at Almondsbury, is a completely separate company from Dwane Sports Ltd. If Dwane Colony Ltd was classed as part of the group which comprises Bristol Rovers Football Club Ltd and Bristol Rovers 1883 Ltd it would be included in the group consolidated accounts but it is only mentioned in the section for transactions with related parties. You must decide whether, in terms of loyalty, your priority is with Bristol Rovers Football Club and Bristol Rovers 1883 Ltd, Dwane Sports Ltd, Dwane Colony Ltd or Wael Al-Qadi. I just think that at a difficult time, when supporters are being asked to help the club by buying season tickets in advance, it does not seem right that Dwane Colony Ltd have apparently owed Bristol Rovers a substantial sum of money for a very long time. And because that money has not been paid over to them Bristol Rovers are having to borrow more money from Dwane Sports Ltd who are charging interest on it. Perhaps Wael could reassure Gasheads by announcing that all monies owed to Bristol Rovers by Dwane Colony Ltd have now been paid. Swiss in an earlier post you imply there is group interest and in this one there is no group. I'm not sure that there would be a need for rovers to produce consolidated accounts by virtue of the buisness being too small. Perhaps the act of audit overrides this? But if the group is small you generally dont need a set of consolidated. I see no evidence in your statement regarding consolidations. There are loads of group structures and businesses can set up the investments in a variety of forms for a variety of reasons. Your overall principal is roughly correct. There is more debt and less appeal to investors. However the majority of the debt is to the owners and to this extent- the reality of financials is unclear. It all depends on the intent/ ability of the owners. This has always been the problem as the communication has never been good enough. So we are left guessing- and in truth I'm confused regarding their intentions.
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Post by swissgas on Apr 29, 2020 19:26:27 GMT
Dwane Colony Ltd, which owns the land at Almondsbury, is a completely separate company from Dwane Sports Ltd. If Dwane Colony Ltd was classed as part of the group which comprises Bristol Rovers Football Club Ltd and Bristol Rovers 1883 Ltd it would be included in the group consolidated accounts but it is only mentioned in the section for transactions with related parties. You must decide whether, in terms of loyalty, your priority is with Bristol Rovers Football Club and Bristol Rovers 1883 Ltd, Dwane Sports Ltd, Dwane Colony Ltd or Wael Al-Qadi. I just think that at a difficult time, when supporters are being asked to help the club by buying season tickets in advance, it does not seem right that Dwane Colony Ltd have apparently owed Bristol Rovers a substantial sum of money for a very long time. And because that money has not been paid over to them Bristol Rovers are having to borrow more money from Dwane Sports Ltd who are charging interest on it. Perhaps Wael could reassure Gasheads by announcing that all monies owed to Bristol Rovers by Dwane Colony Ltd have now been paid. Swiss in an earlier post you imply there is group interest and in this one there is no group. I'm not sure that there would be a need for rovers to produce consolidated accounts by virtue of the buisness being too small. Perhaps the act of audit overrides this? But if the group is small you generally dont need a set of consolidated. I see no evidence in your statement regarding consolidations. There are loads of group structures and businesses can set up the investments in a variety of forms for a variety of reasons. Your overall principal is roughly correct. There is more debt and less appeal to investors. However the majority of the debt is to the owners and to this extent- the reality of financials is unclear. It all depends on the intent/ ability of the owners. This has always been the problem as the communication has never been good enough. So we are left guessing- and in truth I'm confused regarding their intentions. There is a vertical group structure with Dwane Sports Ltd at the top, underneath is BRFC 1883 Ltd of which Dwane Sports owns 92%, and underneath that is the football club, BRFC Ltd, of which BRFC 1883 Ltd owns 100 %. BRFC 1883 Ltd and BRFC Ltd have consolidated accounts in which Dwane Sports Ltd is described as the "ultimate parent". On Peter Parker's chart Dwane Colony Ltd should really be on a line running horizontally out from Dwane Sports Ltd because it is owned by the same shareholders but has no direct connection with BRFC 1883 Ltd. Dwane Colony Ltd has not paid the money it owes and therefore BRFC 1883 Ltd is short of cash by this amount so needs to borrow it from Dwane Sports Ltd which charges interest. In a normal commercial transaction Dwane Colony Ltd would pay BRFC 1883 Ltd within a reasonable time and there would be no need for this extra borrowing. If Dwane Colony Ltd could have used their resources to develop a magnificent training centre at the Colony and then charged Rovers a fair rent to use it, and made a profit on that rent, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But Dwane Colony Ltd didn't develop the training centre and so Rovers have gained no benefit at all from it yet are still expected to lay out scarce cash resources to maintain it. IMO this is not a cunning plan to charge more interest to Rovers it is just another example of a slap dash way of doing business and a "we do as we like" approach. At a time when the owners of the club are appealing for help to meet a cash shortfall they are not assisting themselves by allowing one of their own companies to owe us so much money. A simple remedy would be for Wael to announce that Dwane Colony Ltd had paid up and by doing this he would gain some badly needed goodwill.
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Post by axegas on Apr 29, 2020 19:53:59 GMT
Swiss in an earlier post you imply there is group interest and in this one there is no group. I'm not sure that there would be a need for rovers to produce consolidated accounts by virtue of the buisness being too small. Perhaps the act of audit overrides this? But if the group is small you generally dont need a set of consolidated. I see no evidence in your statement regarding consolidations. There are loads of group structures and businesses can set up the investments in a variety of forms for a variety of reasons. Your overall principal is roughly correct. There is more debt and less appeal to investors. However the majority of the debt is to the owners and to this extent- the reality of financials is unclear. It all depends on the intent/ ability of the owners. This has always been the problem as the communication has never been good enough. So we are left guessing- and in truth I'm confused regarding their intentions. There is a vertical group structure with Dwane Sports Ltd at the top, underneath is BRFC 1883 Ltd of which Dwane Sports owns 92%, and underneath that is the football club, BRFC Ltd, of which BRFC 1883 Ltd owns 100 %. BRFC 1883 Ltd and BRFC Ltd have consolidated accounts in which Dwane Sports Ltd is described as the "ultimate parent". On Peter Parker's chart Dwane Colony Ltd should really be on a line running horizontally out from Dwane Sports Ltd because it is owned by the same shareholders but has no direct connection with BRFC 1883 Ltd. Dwane Colony Ltd has not paid the money it owes and therefore BRFC 1883 Ltd is short of cash by this amount so needs to borrow it from Dwane Sports Ltd which charges interest. In a normal commercial transaction Dwane Colony Ltd would pay BRFC 1883 Ltd within a reasonable time and there would be no need for this extra borrowing. If Dwane Colony Ltd could have used their resources to develop a magnificent training centre at the Colony and then charged Rovers a fair rent to use it, and made a profit on that rent, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But Dwane Colony Ltd didn't develop the training centre and so Rovers have gained no benefit at all from it yet are still expected to lay out scarce cash resources to maintain it. IMO this is not a cunning plan to charge more interest to Rovers it is just another example of a slap dash way of doing business and a "we do as we like" approach. At a time when the owners of the club are appealing for help to meet a cash shortfall they are not assisting themselves by allowing one of their own companies to owe us so much money. A simple remedy would be for Wael to announce that Dwane Colony Ltd had paid up and by doing this he would gain some badly needed goodwill. Swiss, I think you're led astray on this one, sorry. You make it out like Dwane Colony is a completely separate entity that is malevolently syphoning off resources from the football club for it's own gain. In reality it's shares a parent company and shareholders as BRFC 1883 does and it's only purpose is to deliver an asset to the football club later down the line, there's nothing untoward in giving them some money to upkeep what hopefully will be a decent training facility for the club in the future. Perhaps the money will be repaid in the future, perhaps it won't but either way it doesn't really matter as it's going to something that should benefit us greatly long term. Would you prefer it we stopped paying essential maintenance on the colony and gave up all hope of a new training ground entirely? To me letting your assets fall into disrepair would be the far more "slapdash" thing to do.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 29, 2020 20:11:35 GMT
There is a vertical group structure with Dwane Sports Ltd at the top, underneath is BRFC 1883 Ltd of which Dwane Sports owns 92%, and underneath that is the football club, BRFC Ltd, of which BRFC 1883 Ltd owns 100 %. BRFC 1883 Ltd and BRFC Ltd have consolidated accounts in which Dwane Sports Ltd is described as the "ultimate parent". On Peter Parker's chart Dwane Colony Ltd should really be on a line running horizontally out from Dwane Sports Ltd because it is owned by the same shareholders but has no direct connection with BRFC 1883 Ltd. Dwane Colony Ltd has not paid the money it owes and therefore BRFC 1883 Ltd is short of cash by this amount so needs to borrow it from Dwane Sports Ltd which charges interest. In a normal commercial transaction Dwane Colony Ltd would pay BRFC 1883 Ltd within a reasonable time and there would be no need for this extra borrowing. If Dwane Colony Ltd could have used their resources to develop a magnificent training centre at the Colony and then charged Rovers a fair rent to use it, and made a profit on that rent, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But Dwane Colony Ltd didn't develop the training centre and so Rovers have gained no benefit at all from it yet are still expected to lay out scarce cash resources to maintain it. IMO this is not a cunning plan to charge more interest to Rovers it is just another example of a slap dash way of doing business and a "we do as we like" approach. At a time when the owners of the club are appealing for help to meet a cash shortfall they are not assisting themselves by allowing one of their own companies to owe us so much money. A simple remedy would be for Wael to announce that Dwane Colony Ltd had paid up and by doing this he would gain some badly needed goodwill. Swiss, I think you're led astray on this one, sorry. You make it out like Dwane Colony is a completely separate entity that is malevolently syphoning off resources from the football club for it's own gain. In reality it's shares a parent company and shareholders as BRFC 1883 does and it's only purpose is to deliver an asset to the football club later down the line, there's nothing untoward in giving them some money to upkeep what hopefully will be a decent training facility for the club in the future. Perhaps the money will be repaid in the future, perhaps it won't but either way it doesn't really matter as it's going to something that should benefit us greatly long term. Would you prefer it we stopped paying essential maintenance on the colony and gave up all hope of a new training ground entirely? To me letting your assets fall into disrepair would be the far more "slapdash" thing to do. I'm not sure it's right that the club is paying money to anyone for something it recieves literally no benefit from. Irrespective of who owns what or how stuff is divided up. I care only about the football club, not about Dwane Sports or Dwane Colonly limited or whatever other company it may be.
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Post by peterparker on Apr 29, 2020 20:15:05 GMT
Swiss in an earlier post you imply there is group interest and in this one there is no group. I'm not sure that there would be a need for rovers to produce consolidated accounts by virtue of the buisness being too small. Perhaps the act of audit overrides this? But if the group is small you generally dont need a set of consolidated. I see no evidence in your statement regarding consolidations. There are loads of group structures and businesses can set up the investments in a variety of forms for a variety of reasons. Your overall principal is roughly correct. There is more debt and less appeal to investors. However the majority of the debt is to the owners and to this extent- the reality of financials is unclear. It all depends on the intent/ ability of the owners. This has always been the problem as the communication has never been good enough. So we are left guessing- and in truth I'm confused regarding their intentions. There is a vertical group structure with Dwane Sports Ltd at the top, underneath is BRFC 1883 Ltd of which Dwane Sports owns 92%, and underneath that is the football club, BRFC Ltd, of which BRFC 1883 Ltd owns 100 %. BRFC 1883 Ltd and BRFC Ltd have consolidated accounts in which Dwane Sports Ltd is described as the "ultimate parent". On Peter Parker's chart Dwane Colony Ltd should really be on a line running horizontally out from Dwane Sports Ltd because it is owned by the same shareholders but has no direct connection with BRFC 1883 Ltd. Dwane Colony Ltd has not paid the money it owes and therefore BRFC 1883 Ltd is short of cash by this amount so needs to borrow it from Dwane Sports Ltd which charges interest. In a normal commercial transaction Dwane Colony Ltd would pay BRFC 1883 Ltd within a reasonable time and there would be no need for this extra borrowing. If Dwane Colony Ltd could have used their resources to develop a magnificent training centre at the Colony and then charged Rovers a fair rent to use it, and made a profit on that rent, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But Dwane Colony Ltd didn't develop the training centre and so Rovers have gained no benefit at all from it yet are still expected to lay out scarce cash resources to maintain it. IMO this is not a cunning plan to charge more interest to Rovers it is just another example of a slap dash way of doing business and a "we do as we like" approach. At a time when the owners of the club are appealing for help to meet a cash shortfall they are not assisting themselves by allowing one of their own companies to owe us so much money. A simple remedy would be for Wael to announce that Dwane Colony Ltd had paid up and by doing this he would gain some badly needed goodwill. Goodwill for what? As i say, we either go bust under Dwane Sports, or someone buys 1883ltd at an agreed price with assets and liabilities considered
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Post by gashead1981 on Apr 29, 2020 20:16:53 GMT
There is a vertical group structure with Dwane Sports Ltd at the top, underneath is BRFC 1883 Ltd of which Dwane Sports owns 92%, and underneath that is the football club, BRFC Ltd, of which BRFC 1883 Ltd owns 100 %. BRFC 1883 Ltd and BRFC Ltd have consolidated accounts in which Dwane Sports Ltd is described as the "ultimate parent". On Peter Parker's chart Dwane Colony Ltd should really be on a line running horizontally out from Dwane Sports Ltd because it is owned by the same shareholders but has no direct connection with BRFC 1883 Ltd. Dwane Colony Ltd has not paid the money it owes and therefore BRFC 1883 Ltd is short of cash by this amount so needs to borrow it from Dwane Sports Ltd which charges interest. In a normal commercial transaction Dwane Colony Ltd would pay BRFC 1883 Ltd within a reasonable time and there would be no need for this extra borrowing. If Dwane Colony Ltd could have used their resources to develop a magnificent training centre at the Colony and then charged Rovers a fair rent to use it, and made a profit on that rent, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But Dwane Colony Ltd didn't develop the training centre and so Rovers have gained no benefit at all from it yet are still expected to lay out scarce cash resources to maintain it. IMO this is not a cunning plan to charge more interest to Rovers it is just another example of a slap dash way of doing business and a "we do as we like" approach. At a time when the owners of the club are appealing for help to meet a cash shortfall they are not assisting themselves by allowing one of their own companies to owe us so much money. A simple remedy would be for Wael to announce that Dwane Colony Ltd had paid up and by doing this he would gain some badly needed goodwill. Swiss, I think you're led astray on this one, sorry. You make it out like Dwane Colony is a completely separate entity that is malevolently syphoning off resources from the football club for it's own gain. In reality it's shares a parent company and shareholders as BRFC 1883 does and it's only purpose is to deliver an asset to the football club later down the line, there's nothing untoward in giving them some money to upkeep what hopefully will be a decent training facility for the club in the future. Perhaps the money will be repaid in the future, perhaps it won't but either way it doesn't really matter as it's going to something that should benefit us greatly long term. Would you prefer it we stopped paying essential maintenance on the colony and gave up all hope of a new training ground entirely? To me letting your assets fall into disrepair would be the far more "slapdash" thing to do. I agree with you axe, as well as LJG and PP. There is no evidence to suggest this money has gone into the back pocket of any of the shareholders and whilst the DC comes under the umbrella of DS as does 1883 and the Mem its debt is to the ALQ family, it just goes via the football club for tax reasons, which as highlighted is a very sensible business practice. I see fanatical/Knowall flagged it as a possible misdemeanour as hell typically would but if there is a B2B invoice trail, then it’s completely legit and in no way dishonest. If we were about to be taken over then it would be worth someone flagging it, but as we aren’t, there is no need to get overly excited about it. As for Wael needing some more goodwill, I think in the last 6 weeks he’s proven to be honourable towards the staff of this club by guaranteeing their wages and this clubs future out of CV19.
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Post by axegas on Apr 29, 2020 20:27:17 GMT
Swiss, I think you're led astray on this one, sorry. You make it out like Dwane Colony is a completely separate entity that is malevolently syphoning off resources from the football club for it's own gain. In reality it's shares a parent company and shareholders as BRFC 1883 does and it's only purpose is to deliver an asset to the football club later down the line, there's nothing untoward in giving them some money to upkeep what hopefully will be a decent training facility for the club in the future. Perhaps the money will be repaid in the future, perhaps it won't but either way it doesn't really matter as it's going to something that should benefit us greatly long term. Would you prefer it we stopped paying essential maintenance on the colony and gave up all hope of a new training ground entirely? To me letting your assets fall into disrepair would be the far more "slapdash" thing to do. I'm not sure it's right that the club is paying money to anyone for something it recieves literally no benefit from. Irrespective of who owns what or how stuff is divided up. I care only about the football club, not about Dwane Sports or Dwane Colonly limited or whatever other company it may be. Dwane Colony was simply the tool the owners chose to inject money to get the project started and buy the land, BRFC 1883 provides the working capital to keep the project going in the absence of Dwane Colony having a sustainable flow of income themselves. Either way, it's for our benefit to have a permanent site to move into as our lease at cribbs ends.
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 29, 2020 20:52:08 GMT
There is a vertical group structure with Dwane Sports Ltd at the top, underneath is BRFC 1883 Ltd of which Dwane Sports owns 92%, and underneath that is the football club, BRFC Ltd, of which BRFC 1883 Ltd owns 100 %. BRFC 1883 Ltd and BRFC Ltd have consolidated accounts in which Dwane Sports Ltd is described as the "ultimate parent". On Peter Parker's chart Dwane Colony Ltd should really be on a line running horizontally out from Dwane Sports Ltd because it is owned by the same shareholders but has no direct connection with BRFC 1883 Ltd. Dwane Colony Ltd has not paid the money it owes and therefore BRFC 1883 Ltd is short of cash by this amount so needs to borrow it from Dwane Sports Ltd which charges interest. In a normal commercial transaction Dwane Colony Ltd would pay BRFC 1883 Ltd within a reasonable time and there would be no need for this extra borrowing. If Dwane Colony Ltd could have used their resources to develop a magnificent training centre at the Colony and then charged Rovers a fair rent to use it, and made a profit on that rent, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But Dwane Colony Ltd didn't develop the training centre and so Rovers have gained no benefit at all from it yet are still expected to lay out scarce cash resources to maintain it. IMO this is not a cunning plan to charge more interest to Rovers it is just another example of a slap dash way of doing business and a "we do as we like" approach. At a time when the owners of the club are appealing for help to meet a cash shortfall they are not assisting themselves by allowing one of their own companies to owe us so much money. A simple remedy would be for Wael to announce that Dwane Colony Ltd had paid up and by doing this he would gain some badly needed goodwill. Swiss, I think you're led astray on this one, sorry. You make it out like Dwane Colony is a completely separate entity that is malevolently syphoning off resources from the football club for it's own gain. In reality it's shares a parent company and shareholders as BRFC 1883 does and it's only purpose is to deliver an asset to the football club later down the line, there's nothing untoward in giving them some money to upkeep what hopefully will be a decent training facility for the club in the future. Perhaps the money will be repaid in the future, perhaps it won't but either way it doesn't really matter as it's going to something that should benefit us greatly long term. Would you prefer it we stopped paying essential maintenance on the colony and gave up all hope of a new training ground entirely? To me letting your assets fall into disrepair would be the far more "slapdash" thing to do. I'm loss with this one, how can it cost upto £100K p.a. to maintain a field where the grass isn't even cut from one year to the next? At most all we need is somebody to occasionally visit the site to make sure it's still secure. It's not like we've got a groundsman based mowing the pitches all summer.
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Post by gastower on Apr 29, 2020 21:17:24 GMT
There has been no essential maintenance carried out there that warrants these charges in the last two years.Apart from clearing fly tipping on two separate occasions which was carried out by our ground staff I have seen very little change to the site which I pass daily Why a planning company was appointed to over see an application to develop 10 acres for housing to fund fund 20 acres of training complex I don't know especially as they were based in Cheltenham (with no local knowledge whatsoever) This plan would not of got off base one with South Gloucestershire planning department and was the reason the owners (ex Churngold directors) sold the land to DC There is no plan to develop the site for a training complex and,in any event ,the previous owners want to buy it back .In that case DC will be dissolved and presumably settle its liabilities in an orderly way Forgot to mention the failed planning application for 3 barn conversions which failed at the first hurdle because no ecology report was attached So DC can't even appoint competent planners
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Post by LJG on Apr 29, 2020 21:45:50 GMT
Swiss in an earlier post you imply there is group interest and in this one there is no group. I'm not sure that there would be a need for rovers to produce consolidated accounts by virtue of the buisness being too small. Perhaps the act of audit overrides this? But if the group is small you generally dont need a set of consolidated. I see no evidence in your statement regarding consolidations. There are loads of group structures and businesses can set up the investments in a variety of forms for a variety of reasons. Your overall principal is roughly correct. There is more debt and less appeal to investors. However the majority of the debt is to the owners and to this extent- the reality of financials is unclear. It all depends on the intent/ ability of the owners. This has always been the problem as the communication has never been good enough. So we are left guessing- and in truth I'm confused regarding their intentions. There is a vertical group structure with Dwane Sports Ltd at the top, underneath is BRFC 1883 Ltd of which Dwane Sports owns 92%, and underneath that is the football club, BRFC Ltd, of which BRFC 1883 Ltd owns 100 %. BRFC 1883 Ltd and BRFC Ltd have consolidated accounts in which Dwane Sports Ltd is described as the "ultimate parent". On Peter Parker's chart Dwane Colony Ltd should really be on a line running horizontally out from Dwane Sports Ltd because it is owned by the same shareholders but has no direct connection with BRFC 1883 Ltd. Dwane Colony Ltd has not paid the money it owes and therefore BRFC 1883 Ltd is short of cash by this amount so needs to borrow it from Dwane Sports Ltd which charges interest. In a normal commercial transaction Dwane Colony Ltd would pay BRFC 1883 Ltd within a reasonable time and there would be no need for this extra borrowing. If Dwane Colony Ltd could have used their resources to develop a magnificent training centre at the Colony and then charged Rovers a fair rent to use it, and made a profit on that rent, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But Dwane Colony Ltd didn't develop the training centre and so Rovers have gained no benefit at all from it yet are still expected to lay out scarce cash resources to maintain it. IMO this is not a cunning plan to charge more interest to Rovers it is just another example of a slap dash way of doing business and a "we do as we like" approach. At a time when the owners of the club are appealing for help to meet a cash shortfall they are not assisting themselves by allowing one of their own companies to owe us so much money. A simple remedy would be for Wael to announce that Dwane Colony Ltd had paid up and by doing this he would gain some badly needed goodwill. Badly needed by who? The circle jerkers?
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Post by gashead1981 on Apr 30, 2020 17:15:22 GMT
There is a vertical group structure with Dwane Sports Ltd at the top, underneath is BRFC 1883 Ltd of which Dwane Sports owns 92%, and underneath that is the football club, BRFC Ltd, of which BRFC 1883 Ltd owns 100 %. BRFC 1883 Ltd and BRFC Ltd have consolidated accounts in which Dwane Sports Ltd is described as the "ultimate parent". On Peter Parker's chart Dwane Colony Ltd should really be on a line running horizontally out from Dwane Sports Ltd because it is owned by the same shareholders but has no direct connection with BRFC 1883 Ltd. Dwane Colony Ltd has not paid the money it owes and therefore BRFC 1883 Ltd is short of cash by this amount so needs to borrow it from Dwane Sports Ltd which charges interest. In a normal commercial transaction Dwane Colony Ltd would pay BRFC 1883 Ltd within a reasonable time and there would be no need for this extra borrowing. If Dwane Colony Ltd could have used their resources to develop a magnificent training centre at the Colony and then charged Rovers a fair rent to use it, and made a profit on that rent, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But Dwane Colony Ltd didn't develop the training centre and so Rovers have gained no benefit at all from it yet are still expected to lay out scarce cash resources to maintain it. IMO this is not a cunning plan to charge more interest to Rovers it is just another example of a slap dash way of doing business and a "we do as we like" approach. At a time when the owners of the club are appealing for help to meet a cash shortfall they are not assisting themselves by allowing one of their own companies to owe us so much money. A simple remedy would be for Wael to announce that Dwane Colony Ltd had paid up and by doing this he would gain some badly needed goodwill. Badly needed by who? The circle jerkers? Then more than ever.
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Post by puregas on May 4, 2020 19:06:20 GMT
We’re even in WSC now, under the Clubs in Crisis section, with a picture of Wael. Ffs!
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Post by axegas on May 4, 2020 19:33:45 GMT
We’re even in WSC now, under the Clubs in Crisis section, with a picture of Wael. Ffs! I fear every club below the Premier League is a club in crisis in the current economic climate unfortunately.
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Post by CheshireGas on May 5, 2020 11:13:38 GMT
There is a vertical group structure with Dwane Sports Ltd at the top, underneath is BRFC 1883 Ltd of which Dwane Sports owns 92%, and underneath that is the football club, BRFC Ltd, of which BRFC 1883 Ltd owns 100 %. BRFC 1883 Ltd and BRFC Ltd have consolidated accounts in which Dwane Sports Ltd is described as the "ultimate parent". On Peter Parker's chart Dwane Colony Ltd should really be on a line running horizontally out from Dwane Sports Ltd because it is owned by the same shareholders but has no direct connection with BRFC 1883 Ltd. Dwane Colony Ltd has not paid the money it owes and therefore BRFC 1883 Ltd is short of cash by this amount so needs to borrow it from Dwane Sports Ltd which charges interest. In a normal commercial transaction Dwane Colony Ltd would pay BRFC 1883 Ltd within a reasonable time and there would be no need for this extra borrowing. If Dwane Colony Ltd could have used their resources to develop a magnificent training centre at the Colony and then charged Rovers a fair rent to use it, and made a profit on that rent, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But Dwane Colony Ltd didn't develop the training centre and so Rovers have gained no benefit at all from it yet are still expected to lay out scarce cash resources to maintain it. IMO this is not a cunning plan to charge more interest to Rovers it is just another example of a slap dash way of doing business and a "we do as we like" approach. At a time when the owners of the club are appealing for help to meet a cash shortfall they are not assisting themselves by allowing one of their own companies to owe us so much money. A simple remedy would be for Wael to announce that Dwane Colony Ltd had paid up and by doing this he would gain some badly needed goodwill. Swiss, is there any evidence of an interest payment being made from DC to BRFC ? If there is a charge and it matches the one made by the DS to BRFC then there is no loss to BRFC. However if there is no commensurate charge to DC then I agree that it is a weight on BRFC to carry when it needs cash.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2020 11:26:31 GMT
There has been no essential maintenance carried out there that warrants these charges in the last two years.Apart from clearing fly tipping on two separate occasions which was carried out by our ground staff I have seen very little change to the site which I pass daily Why a planning company was appointed to over see an application to develop 10 acres for housing to fund fund 20 acres of training complex I don't know especially as they were based in Cheltenham (with no local knowledge whatsoever) This plan would not of got off base one with South Gloucestershire planning department and was the reason the owners (ex Churngold directors) sold the land to DC There is no plan to develop the site for a training complex and,in any event ,the previous owners want to buy it back .In that case DC will be dissolved and presumably settle its liabilities in an orderly way Forgot to mention the failed planning application for 3 barn conversions which failed at the first hurdle because no ecology report was attached So DC can't even appoint competent planners Who knows what the payment arrangements are for the purchase of the land? It could have been a lump sum up front with remainder of balance payable in equal monthly instalments for x years? Re barn conversions and housing, it is perfectly reasonable to have property attached to training ground for grounds men or new signings who relocate and rent the property until the purchase their own home etc or for staff to co-live to avoid commuting?? In fact it’s common practice across most other training complexes? You mention no plan? I can’t say one way or other but unless you can and can evidence it (just because one isn’t public or submitted doesn’t mean there isn’t one internally or a strategy) then you can’t say one way or another. You also talk about inability to appoint a competent planning company? Surely that error is on the planner not the club. You tender and base decisions on the responses and due diligence in good faith. You can’t plan for unknown or rare mistakes or errors. Perhaps the planners were under the impression an ecology report was not needed for whatever reason? Lastly the former owners of the land want to buy it back? Why is that - especially during the reduced market value environment? What are they suddenly going to do with it that the hadn’t been able to for the previous x number of years? What’s changed so suddenly that now makes that land so attractive again? You are always so quick to criticise and to generate conspiracies but with no substance or evidence or thoughts from the angle that it may not be all bad? Why are you so anti the Al Qadis??
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Post by fanatical on May 6, 2020 10:04:12 GMT
There has been no essential maintenance carried out there that warrants these charges in the last two years.Apart from clearing fly tipping on two separate occasions which was carried out by our ground staff I have seen very little change to the site which I pass daily Why a planning company was appointed to over see an application to develop 10 acres for housing to fund fund 20 acres of training complex I don't know especially as they were based in Cheltenham (with no local knowledge whatsoever) This plan would not of got off base one with South Gloucestershire planning department and was the reason the owners (ex Churngold directors) sold the land to DC There is no plan to develop the site for a training complex and,in any event ,the previous owners want to buy it back .In that case DC will be dissolved and presumably settle its liabilities in an orderly way Forgot to mention the failed planning application for 3 barn conversions which failed at the first hurdle because no ecology report was attached So DC can't even appoint competent planners for £1?
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Post by Gasshole on May 8, 2020 4:24:42 GMT
There is a vertical group structure with Dwane Sports Ltd at the top, underneath is BRFC 1883 Ltd of which Dwane Sports owns 92%, and underneath that is the football club, BRFC Ltd, of which BRFC 1883 Ltd owns 100 %. BRFC 1883 Ltd and BRFC Ltd have consolidated accounts in which Dwane Sports Ltd is described as the "ultimate parent". On Peter Parker's chart Dwane Colony Ltd should really be on a line running horizontally out from Dwane Sports Ltd because it is owned by the same shareholders but has no direct connection with BRFC 1883 Ltd. Dwane Colony Ltd has not paid the money it owes and therefore BRFC 1883 Ltd is short of cash by this amount so needs to borrow it from Dwane Sports Ltd which charges interest. In a normal commercial transaction Dwane Colony Ltd would pay BRFC 1883 Ltd within a reasonable time and there would be no need for this extra borrowing. If Dwane Colony Ltd could have used their resources to develop a magnificent training centre at the Colony and then charged Rovers a fair rent to use it, and made a profit on that rent, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But Dwane Colony Ltd didn't develop the training centre and so Rovers have gained no benefit at all from it yet are still expected to lay out scarce cash resources to maintain it. IMO this is not a cunning plan to charge more interest to Rovers it is just another example of a slap dash way of doing business and a "we do as we like" approach. At a time when the owners of the club are appealing for help to meet a cash shortfall they are not assisting themselves by allowing one of their own companies to owe us so much money. A simple remedy would be for Wael to announce that Dwane Colony Ltd had paid up and by doing this he would gain some badly needed goodwill. Badly needed by who? The circle jerkers? “You’ll never w@nk alone”
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Post by darkbluegas on May 8, 2020 12:40:11 GMT
The reason why Football Fair Play rules and wage caps never work is made even clearer as it’s announced The Rosey Cheeked tax dodger pays off £71,000,000 C£££y debt via a conversion to shares. Makes trying to compete a pointless exercise for smaller clubs
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Post by Topper Gas on May 8, 2020 13:17:11 GMT
That's a story from November 2019 it's hardly breaking news? Lansdown has just sold another £160m of shares in his stockbroking business so he's still got plenty of money to invest (or waste!).
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