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Post by stevek192 on Nov 25, 2014 10:47:37 GMT
We are where we are. History means nothing whatsoever and the quicker some fans realise this the better. History is what it is..it is what's written in Books.it's the past,it's yesterday and more importantly it's GONE. We are a Conference team now, in the Conference, no more no less. We have no divine right to win games here and for anyone to say we should be romping this League then in all honesty they are talking out of their rear end. We are here for a reason and that reason is because in the last 5 years at least we have not been good enough whichever division we have been in and last season we were not good enough to retain our League status. People can say what they want but if you are relegated from one division it does NOT mean that you will be the best team in the division below as was proven when we were relegated from League 1. In the same way that teams who win a league generally have a good first 4 months in the division above due to thye momentum of success so teams on the downward spiral struggle to turn it around.
DC has managed so far to turn around that downward spiral, he has done that on a budget which is probably 100% lower than the budget which Trollope had 5 years ago. Its Ok saying we have one of the largest budgets every year but people seem to forget that we have been moving down leagues and I am sure our budget this season would be equivalent to the lower teams in League 2.
i was not a DC fan and have always said that we should have appointed a Manager like Martin Allen at least 2 months before Clarke took over but that again is History and totally irrelevant now. I have moved on to the PRESENT and DC has proved himself this season IMO and deserves the right to be our Manager for the whole season. We are in a good position in this League at this time. Every point is a point nearer the target which must be to regain our league status. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a Football team. It takes time,patience and a great deal of luck WHATEVER division you are in. It is clearly visible that many do not have the Patience needed and this has probably been a big part of our decline. To call for a Managers head when we sit 2 points off second place is absolutely ridiculous. if we were in the bottom 4 I could understand it. I stand on the terraces today proud to be a Gashead watching a team of players who each give 100% to the cause and it is a few years since I could say that together with a Manager who calls it as it is. Yes I am hurting from the relegation but that is history. To regain our League status this season will be a tremendous achievement and I believe that DC CAN achieve this. That does not mean he will but he has as much chance as anyone else but to achieve it he need everyone to get behind him. we are supposed to be the 12th man not the Hangman.
Swallow your pride ,forget what has been and create a new history, be part of it and get off your asses and get down the Mem tonight and every home game.Instead of moaning behind a keyboard about things you haven't seen do your part and get behind each and every player and the Manager. Do that and you can say you played your part in any success we have because the easiest thing to do is sit back and criticise the failures from behind a keyboard. This is not intended as a criticism of those who due to health, wealth or situation cannot attend but to those who sit at home moaning,criticising and come out with any excuse whatsoever to not attend. UTG
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Post by Mark Ash on Nov 25, 2014 11:05:26 GMT
Well said, and I'll be there.
We certainly don't have that fabled 'divine right' to be higher: it's all about those 11 guys on the pitch and the scores they get. That is the whole of it.
Although... I do feel that clubs tend to have what we might call a 'natural' level. I always feel that ours is League One. To be in the Championship would be amazing, to be in League Two would normally (not now, obviously) be worrying and disappointing. For us, things have gone badly wrong; for Alfreton they're going pretty well, I'd guess. Yet here we are, in the same division.
But, as you say, in the phrase of this season, "We are where we are." Let's try to get to where we are not. UTG!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 11:20:48 GMT
Great OP. Totally agree. I've always believed in playing the hand you've been dealt. Right now we are doing alright. UTG.
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Post by grayraydon on Nov 25, 2014 11:45:24 GMT
Excellent post Steve, fully agree with everything you've said, we are where we are because we were not good enough full stop, I might not be enjoying the fact that we find ourselves in the conference but I do definitely see signs of encouragement, the players do care now and are putting in the effort which couldn't always be said of the past few years.
I'll be there tonight, really hope we can get a big crowd and a good win which could give us the confidence to really kick on again.
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Post by LJG on Nov 25, 2014 12:46:21 GMT
In my opinion this is a little bit, complete and utter nonsense. Our history doesn't give us a divine right to anything, correct - no one has any divine right to anything. However, what our history has given us are a series of assets which, if they hadn't been f**ked up a wall, would mean we shouldn't be where we are.
Our former successes have gifted us the following: - a larger fanbase than most at this level, the level above and the level above that; for clarity - that means higher income via gate receipts, merchandise and other revenues (50/50, programs, pasties, pints, SC, FFSC etc) - revenues from the sale of quality players - A shop window for our club to attract players, managers, backroom staff (which apparently we haven't been able to do for the last four years) - A shop window to attract investment - PRIZE MONEY and TV revenues; Play off winners, second place in JPT, Quarter finals of FA Cup.
I just couldn't disagree more with the "We are where we are" attitude. It is symptomatic of the lazy, unimaginative, Americanised, blame free, culture that pervades our wider society. It's a consequenceless shrug of the shoulders and it is complete and utter bulls**t. If in three years time I was a shambolic waster with no job who had given up all my qualifications and ignored my work with just the hope of one dodgy del-boy sale of my only asset to a local supermarket to help me survive I don't think that when my parents, my family, my former tutors and teachers and friends say "What happened? We gave you everything, why didn't you build on the success we helped you to have instead of throwing everything away?" that my response would not be "Hey, I am where I am".
The first step toward recovery is to admit you have a problem.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 12:58:01 GMT
I have to say Lord Justice raises some very good points, there's two sides to every argument.
It must be said as a fanbase and club we have massively lowered our expectations...something Mr Paul Buckle was attacked for and eventually hung out to dry for.
Positivity is important, but turning the other way when things badly need addressing is counter productive, and may be one of the reasons we find ourselves in our lowest ever position.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 13:05:49 GMT
Post of the year.
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Post by mjhgas on Nov 25, 2014 13:22:55 GMT
In my opinion this is a little bit, complete and utter nonsense. Our history doesn't give us a divine right to anything, correct - no one has any divine right to anything. However, what our history has given us are a series of assets which, if they hadn't been f**ked up a wall, would mean we shouldn't be where we are. Our former successes have gifted us the following: - a larger fanbase than most at this level, the level above and the level above that; for clarity - that means higher income via gate receipts, merchandise and other revenues (50/50, programs, pasties, pints, SC, FFSC etc) - revenues from the sale of quality players - A shop window for our club to attract players, managers, backroom staff (which apparently we haven't been able to do for the last four years) - A shop window to attract investment - PRIZE MONEY and TV revenues; Play off winners, second place in JPT, Quarter finals of FA Cup. I just couldn't disagree more with the "We are where we are" attitude. It is symptomatic of the lazy, unimaginative, Americanised, blame free, culture that pervades our wider society. It's a consequenceless shrug of the shoulders and it is complete and utter bulls**t. If in three years time I was a shambolic waster with no job who had given up all my qualifications and ignored my work with just the hope of one dodgy del-boy sale of my only asset to a local supermarket to help me survive I don't think that when my parents, my family, my former tutors and teachers and friends say "What happened? We gave you everything, why didn't you build on the success we helped you to have instead of throwing everything away?" that my response would not be "Hey, I am where I am". The first step toward recovery is to admit you have a problem. Well said! and those events were in the last 7 years!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 13:32:40 GMT
In my opinion this is a little bit, complete and utter nonsense. Our history doesn't give us a divine right to anything, correct - no one has any divine right to anything. However, what our history has given us are a series of assets which, if they hadn't been f**ked up a wall, would mean we shouldn't be where we are. Our former successes have gifted us the following: - a larger fanbase than most at this level, the level above and the level above that; for clarity - that means higher income via gate receipts, merchandise and other revenues (50/50, programs, pasties, pints, SC, FFSC etc) - revenues from the sale of quality players - A shop window for our club to attract players, managers, backroom staff (which apparently we haven't been able to do for the last four years) - A shop window to attract investment - PRIZE MONEY and TV revenues; Play off winners, second place in JPT, Quarter finals of FA Cup. I just couldn't disagree more with the "We are where we are" attitude. It is symptomatic of the lazy, unimaginative, Americanised, blame free, culture that pervades our wider society. It's a consequenceless shrug of the shoulders and it is complete and utter bulls**t. If in three years time I was a shambolic waster with no job who had given up all my qualifications and ignored my work with just the hope of one dodgy del-boy sale of my only asset to a local supermarket to help me survive I don't think that when my parents, my family, my former tutors and teachers and friends say "What happened? We gave you everything, why didn't you build on the success we helped you to have instead of throwing everything away?" that my response would not be "Hey, I am where I am". The first step toward recovery is to admit you have a problem. I like a lot of what you say here but can't both states be true at the same time? Its impossible to argue with most of the points you raise, but none of that helps us in getting on with the job at hand. DC and this squad is doing pretty good all things considered. We are in the conference, we must accept that We are in touch and there are many positives. But.... Unless we address the issues you raise I fear we will never get any higher up the ladder, which IS unacceptable.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 14:26:57 GMT
The first step toward recovery is to admit you have a problem. We have a problem we are not in the football league, thats that sorted then now whats the next step?
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Nov 25, 2014 14:38:46 GMT
What you've said Steve is what I always thought was preventing us from progressing in League 2. Every time we lost the same old rubbish is "we should be beating the likes of these." Well clearly not as those teams are in the FL and we're in the Conference.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Nov 25, 2014 14:42:03 GMT
The first step toward recovery is to admit you have a problem. We have a problem we are not in the football league, thats that sorted then now whats the next step? To get behind the team and get the hell out of here!
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Post by LJG on Nov 25, 2014 14:49:00 GMT
The first step toward recovery is to admit you have a problem. We have a problem we are not in the football league, thats that sorted then now whats the next step? I'm afraid that's a symptom rather than the problem. When the reserve squad was scrapped back in 07/08(?) as a costs saving exercise I said it would cause us immeasurable difficulties in the years to come - I think my fear has been borne out and still seems to go under the radar as a root cause of our troubles. We have other problems but an investment in hoovering up and bringing on young players and having a competitive framework for our wider squad, not just the match day eleven, has to be one of the most grievous oversights a professional football club hoping to be taken seriously can make.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 15:10:35 GMT
We have a problem we are not in the football league, thats that sorted then now whats the next step? I'm afraid that's a symptom rather than the problem. When the reserve squad was scrapped back in 07/08(?) as a costs saving exercise I said it would cause us immeasurable difficulties in the years to come - I think my fear has been borne out and still seems to go under the radar as a root cause of our troubles. We have other problems but an investment in hoovering up and bringing on young players and having a competitive framework for our wider squad, not just the match day eleven, has to be one of the most grievous oversights a professional football club hoping to be taken seriously can make. With respect the fact that we are not in the football league is the problem for me at this time. We all have our theories as to how we got here, but the fact is we are now a non league club and that is the situation which needs to be addressed at this time.
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Post by casey12a on Nov 25, 2014 15:16:07 GMT
We have a problem we are not in the football league, thats that sorted then now whats the next step? I'm afraid that's a symptom rather than the problem. When the reserve squad was scrapped back in 07/08(?) as a costs saving exercise I said it would cause us immeasurable difficulties in the years to come - I think my fear has been borne out and still seems to go under the radar as a root cause of our troubles. We have other problems but an investment in hoovering up and bringing on young players and having a competitive framework for our wider squad, not just the match day eleven, has to be one of the most grievous oversights a professional football club hoping to be taken seriously can make. I agree that this is one of the problems that has contributed to our demise but I think it's only one and due to compensation you now get from the big clubs for your own players I can see why the decision was made. Not that I agree. We always seem to come back to the problem being that we have a board who don't (won't)accept anyone else's help to run the club. A clear strategy for the club is needed just like any other business/football club. If the current board don't have the expertise or time to do this then a CEO (who would then be accountable) needs to be put in place. But this has been said before and nothing changes, so we get a split in the fanbase, and our lowest point in a 131 year history. The past 2 relegations gave perfect opportunites to do this but all we get is the farse about a review.
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Post by LJG on Nov 25, 2014 15:21:25 GMT
I'm afraid that's a symptom rather than the problem. When the reserve squad was scrapped back in 07/08(?) as a costs saving exercise I said it would cause us immeasurable difficulties in the years to come - I think my fear has been borne out and still seems to go under the radar as a root cause of our troubles. We have other problems but an investment in hoovering up and bringing on young players and having a competitive framework for our wider squad, not just the match day eleven, has to be one of the most grievous oversights a professional football club hoping to be taken seriously can make. With respect the fact that we are not in the football league is the problem for me at this time. We all have our theories as to how we got here, but the fact is we are now a non league club and that is the situation which needs to be addressed at this time. Isn't that the attitude that got us here in the first place? "Oh sh*t we're in a relegation scrap in Lg 1 - sack the manager, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch!". and then "Oh sh*t we're in a relegation scrap in Lg 2 - sack the manager, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch! ". And then again "Oh sh*t we're in a relegation scrap in Lg 2 - sack the manager, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch! ". And now "Oh sh*t we're on the brink of dropping out of the play off pack, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch! ". Wouldn't it be nice to have "Oh good, our own scouted and homegrown striker has hit a real purple patch and his mates who all came through the academy with him are pulling together with him too since they've known each other since they were sixteen. Yeah that lad in the centre took a knock and might be out for a couple of games but at least our reserve side play competitively regularly and in reality they were fighting for the spot on the team sheet as it was"?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 15:34:38 GMT
Have to say when DC released Southway, Keary, Goddard, Harding,etc i was disappointed. Even Jamie Lucas hasn't been given a chance while we have struggled to find the net.
As people constantly say now about our current squad "Support them and give them a chance"... I wish we gave those young lads who Tom Curtis superbly brought on a chance to prove what they could have done in the Conference.
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Post by stevek192 on Nov 25, 2014 15:40:16 GMT
LJG, I agree with you it would be good but this is 2014 not 1970. Reserve team football for most teams is now right out of their price range and as for Academy everything has been set up to favour the Premiership and Championship so the chan ces of the real aces going through the Academy and playing for their home club is reduced drastically. This has been evidenced by us already with the loss of Mehew, two keepers and Alefe Santos. The throwing the cash at it is all part of trying to get success or trying to stop failure. If you recall last season we did not throw cash at it and look what happened. For the first time in years we could be in a reasonable position come the New Year.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 15:45:11 GMT
With respect the fact that we are not in the football league is the problem for me at this time. We all have our theories as to how we got here, but the fact is we are now a non league club and that is the situation which needs to be addressed at this time. Isn't that the attitude that got us here in the first place? "Oh sh*t we're in a relegation scrap in Lg 1 - sack the manager, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch!". and then "Oh sh*t we're in a relegation scrap in Lg 2 - sack the manager, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch! ". And then again "Oh sh*t we're in a relegation scrap in Lg 2 - sack the manager, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch! ". And now "Oh sh*t we're on the brink of dropping out of the play off pack, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch! ". Wouldn't it be nice to have "Oh good, our own scouted and homegrown striker has hit a real purple patch and his mates who all came through the academy with him are pulling together with him too since they've known each other since they were sixteen. Yeah that lad in the centre took a knock and might be out for a couple of games but at least our reserve side play competitively regularly and in reality they were fighting for the spot on the team sheet as it was"? It would be nice if we were a premiership club playing in a state of the art stadium with an academy pulling in talent from far and wide, alas we are not. However it would not hurt our cause if we were promoted this season.
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Post by LJG on Nov 25, 2014 15:54:47 GMT
Isn't that the attitude that got us here in the first place? "Oh sh*t we're in a relegation scrap in Lg 1 - sack the manager, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch!". and then "Oh sh*t we're in a relegation scrap in Lg 2 - sack the manager, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch! ". And then again "Oh sh*t we're in a relegation scrap in Lg 2 - sack the manager, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch! ". And now "Oh sh*t we're on the brink of dropping out of the play off pack, chuck cash at it and hope it goes away, in the meantime let's all pull together and support the lads on the pitch! ". Wouldn't it be nice to have "Oh good, our own scouted and homegrown striker has hit a real purple patch and his mates who all came through the academy with him are pulling together with him too since they've known each other since they were sixteen. Yeah that lad in the centre took a knock and might be out for a couple of games but at least our reserve side play competitively regularly and in reality they were fighting for the spot on the team sheet as it was"? It would be nice if we were a premiership club playing in a state of the art stadium with an academy pulling in talent from far and wide, alas we are not. However it would not hurt our cause if we were promoted this season. I'm not really sure what your point is. You don't seem to really be addressing any of the points made in this thread either by me or anyone else.
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