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Post by clayts2020 on Jan 25, 2021 18:30:26 GMT
Steve u forgot 2 mention the coaching staff when Garner was sacked Mesure and Maher should have gone as well But how much would it cost to sack 3 senior members of staff 3 x £100K+ p.a. then a further £300K+ to appoint their replacements, then you'd be posting how the hell have we run up £m's debts!! As Head of Recruitment I'm not sure how much involvement TW had in choosing to recruit the likes of Hanlan and Barrett as they seem like BG's choices not TW's, as he mostly went for ex Coventry players in the past! Although now he's been promoted to DoF you'd assume he'd have more influence over who we signed, which makes it seem odd his first signing since his promotion is clearly a player identified by PT. I wonder what happens now before we sign a player does our new DoF try and convince them it's a good career move for them or is that still left to the manager? Barrett joined early in Jan 20 - BG didn’t seem to play him from the start due to fitness concerns. I’d guess already in the making that one but who knows. I think PT has to give him 90 so we see what he has in a full game
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 25, 2021 18:32:25 GMT
Is that Tommy Widdrington is on the Board and it seems to me has run out of ideas or maybe did in the summer. Somehow he has managed to escape criticism for our current imbalanced squad despite the fact that he recommended most of the players we currently have. We are now about a week away from the end of this window and appear to be totalling lacking ideas in changing the balance of our squad and all we have brought in is a goalkeeper and a bloody right back. Despite having probably the tallest defenders we have had fo9r a lo0ng time, we are pretty awful at dealing with crosses and with an abundance of full backs we still allow far too much space out wide. Our midfield is also defensive based and yet they cannot seem to be able to win the ball off the opposition. I feel strongly that Widdrington should have gone at the same time as BG because he too lacks ideas and is guilty of bringing in some right rubbish and we have far too many coaches who don't seem capable of ironing out the mistakes. IMO we still need 3 attacking players in and about 6 or 7 of the defensive players out. I really feel at the moment that we are not capable of beating the better teams in this league and don't have the bottle for the fight to beat the teams that are just around us. Rochdale is a must win game because I fear that6 if we cant beat them then we have had it. Teams that can't score enough goals are generally kept up by a strong defensive side.We seem to have neither- a recipe for disaster. Widdrington already said numerous times he works 3-4 windows ahead.... that's why he is signing L2 standard players Such as? Ignoring the youngsters all this summer's signings were mainly regular L1 players last season.
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Post by clayts2020 on Jan 25, 2021 18:33:24 GMT
Maher would be caretaker for me to the end of the season if the unthinkable happens and we don’t start winning. He did a good job last Christmas and has a good record under GC. Seems a good honest man with experience of the club. Back to basics under Kevin Maher for me please "good job" which games did he actually manage? If an experienced manager like PT can't motivate the players you do wonder how somebody will little experience can. 0-0 draw with Peterborough. He spoke well, kept the players going and seemed to have every little ego. Must be a reason he has survived at the club and not been let go.
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Post by rememberhalifax on Jan 25, 2021 19:11:31 GMT
Think its fair to say that the players signed under the Widd/BG tenure were in the main considered to be excellent signings and a big improvement on what we had. My concern is in the way these players were chosen as it seems to me there was a lot of reliance on the myriad of statistics which are available now a days. for instance these stats may have shown that Westbrooke completed 90% passes, but what they do not show is that 80% of them were backwards or did nothing to create for the forwards. These stats can easily lead to false impressions being made and i believe too much is made of them , there is no substitute for going up to say, Crewe, on a wet windy night and watching a player first hand to get a more realistic overview of a player and if he is likely to fit in with the club concerned, Any one can be made to look good with stats and promotional videos but IMHO they should not be the yardstick for signing players, so my message to those concerned is get out yer mac and cap and go sit in a draughty stand somewhere (covid allowing!)and find us some talent!
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Post by poorblue on Jan 25, 2021 19:21:45 GMT
I disagree that we have too many Left backs, i think the problem is that we don't have any ! Leahy who has prob been our best performer this season at LB is a converted wingerTutunda has winger written all over him pretty much the same for Koki and Kelly the only true LB not up to standard ! All players except perhaps keepers will during their development as youngster play in different positions and thus know how the positions interlink with each other and any position will change as they develop psychically and technically and IMO will know how to play anywhere. Thus they are not locked into a position from the start. I once overheard an ex england captain who was the Gas manager state (deliberately with the player stood next to him) that as he only had 11 fit players he had no option but to play the worst winger he had ever seen to play as full back. Now a legend for Rovers is that player Ian Alexander. The issue surely is how he plays in the position he is asked to perform in and how in fits into the team not what fans perceive as "his position". The game is full of players who swop positions for the better (and possibly for the worst) The game is also full of player who were "failing" in lower divisions who later progress to hit the top. How many fans were in ecstasy when we signed Nigel Martyn, Ricky Lambert, Barry Hayles, Matty Taylor Jason Roberts etc etc etc and then were in dispair when we sold them. UTG
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Post by Raj Gas on Jan 25, 2021 19:53:16 GMT
There needs to be a serious review of what's gone wrong, but it doesn't seem like that will happen. Widdrington promoted to the board is a bizarre one and he was uber defensive when Garner got sacked - without even being asked the question directly, all we heard was how "recruitment was exceptional" etc. etc. - it certainly doesn't seem it to me. Nicholson was a brilliant signing and McCormick on loan has been brilliant. Any man and his dog could have recommended Oztumer and - besides that - pretty much everyone has been somewhere between complete sh!te to average at best. What I want to know, is why if (presumably) Garner asked for his 25th left-back did no-one go; "hang on a minute Ben, we've got enough left-backs already to fill our entire squad allocation; do you not think we should either spend that part of the budget elsewhere, or simply save it for a rainy day?". Utterly bizarre. Totally agree and the silence since his elevation has been deafening, I was no fan of Garner but can't help thinking he was the fall guy and the other one has got away with it, when I look at that squad and see the complete imbalance with what we are missing so glaring obvious it beggars belief. How with a week to go we haven't moved players on already and found a striker weeks ago is beyond me. Why doesn't that Evening Post reporter ask him for an interview and we can see what the plans are, or does it not matter any more because we aren't at the ground to show our dissent?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 20:44:57 GMT
My worry is we are Bristol Rovers and we can’t never get anything right on or off the pitch ☹️ Time to employ a proper manager.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Jan 25, 2021 21:48:40 GMT
There needs to be a serious review of what's gone wrong, but it doesn't seem like that will happen. Widdrington promoted to the board is a bizarre one and he was uber defensive when Garner got sacked - without even being asked the question directly, all we heard was how "recruitment was exceptional" etc. etc. - it certainly doesn't seem it to me. Nicholson was a brilliant signing and McCormick on loan has been brilliant. Any man and his dog could have recommended Oztumer and - besides that - pretty much everyone has been somewhere between complete sh!te to average at best. What I want to know, is why if (presumably) Garner asked for his 25th left-back did no-one go; "hang on a minute Ben, we've got enough left-backs already to fill our entire squad allocation; do you not think we should either spend that part of the budget elsewhere, or simply save it for a rainy day?". Utterly bizarre. Was JCH not one of his? TW was around before GC got us up to 4th or whatever it was. Iirc the manager gives TW a list of what he wants and then TW uses his database to identify players that fit the mould. If the manager asks for four left backs I'm not sure how that's TW's fault.
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Post by Big Jock on Jan 25, 2021 21:53:22 GMT
My worry is we are Bristol Rovers and we can’t never get anything right on or off the pitch ☹️ Time to employ a proper manager. IMO we do get lots right (not everything) on and off th pitch. If you take a minute of composure, particularly off th pitch we’ve never been in a more progressive state. But after a loss folk knee jerk that everything is wrong on an off th pitch.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Jan 25, 2021 22:00:51 GMT
I’ve said this before he’s untouchable now and wasted a lot of money on sh**e and the managers get the blame then he walks free So are you saying that the manager has no say in who we sign?
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Post by carlts2020 on Jan 25, 2021 22:05:18 GMT
There needs to be a serious review of what's gone wrong, but it doesn't seem like that will happen. Widdrington promoted to the board is a bizarre one and he was uber defensive when Garner got sacked - without even being asked the question directly, all we heard was how "recruitment was exceptional" etc. etc. - it certainly doesn't seem it to me. Nicholson was a brilliant signing and McCormick on loan has been brilliant. Any man and his dog could have recommended Oztumer and - besides that - pretty much everyone has been somewhere between complete sh!te to average at best. What I want to know, is why if (presumably) Garner asked for his 25th left-back did no-one go; "hang on a minute Ben, we've got enough left-backs already to fill our entire squad allocation; do you not think we should either spend that part of the budget elsewhere, or simply save it for a rainy day?". Utterly bizarre. Was JCH not one of his? TW was around before GC got us up to 4th or whatever it was. Iirc the manager gives TW a list of what he wants and then TW uses his database to identify players that fit the mould. If the manager asks for four left backs I'm not sure how that's TW's fault. Surely this 4 left back thing is a joke? Two left backs were signed when Garner was manager. Dave T and Koiki. He payed Kelly maybe 3 times at left centre half. I don’t know why it has become such a popular garner bashing tool. Considering Kelly has been let out on loan immediately in Jan does that know make you think this was always the plan? Get Dave and Koki up to fitness then let Kelly go on loan? What’s more feasible? A manager asking for 4 left backs or a manager asking to sign two new left backs and let one go???
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Post by stevek192 on Jan 25, 2021 22:20:54 GMT
If he works three or four windows ahead then surely he should have a few forwards and attacking players who are better than what we have!! Tisdale is very frustrating when we go into the final week and have only signed a right back and a goalkeeper.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 23:11:00 GMT
Is that Tommy Widdrington is on the Board and it seems to me has run out of ideas or maybe did in the summer. Somehow he has managed to escape criticism for our current imbalanced squad despite the fact that he recommended most of the players we currently have. We are now about a week away from the end of this window and appear to be totalling lacking ideas in changing the balance of our squad and all we have brought in is a goalkeeper and a bloody right back. Despite having probably the tallest defenders we have had fo9r a lo0ng time, we are pretty awful at dealing with crosses and with an abundance of full backs we still allow far too much space out wide. Our midfield is also defensive based and yet they cannot seem to be able to win the ball off the opposition. I feel strongly that Widdrington should have gone at the same time as BG because he too lacks ideas and is guilty of bringing in some right rubbish and we have far too many coaches who don't seem capable of ironing out the mistakes. IMO we still need 3 attacking players in and about 6 or 7 of the defensive players out. I really feel at the moment that we are not capable of beating the better teams in this league and don't have the bottle for the fight to beat the teams that are just around us. Rochdale is a must win game because I fear that6 if we cant beat them then we have had it. Teams that can't score enough goals are generally kept up by a strong defensive side.We seem to have neither- a recipe for disaster. Widdrington already said numerous times he works 3-4 windows ahead.... that's why he is signing L2 standard players 😂😂😂 touché 👏
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 23:18:08 GMT
I guess we'll never really know how much input TW had into recruitment during BG's tenure. Was TW's role to seek out players to BG's specifications/requirements and recommend the best he could find meeting those requirements and of course the constraints of what we were willing to pay too, OR did he have a free hand to recommend players. If the latter then I agree he should have gone when BG did. I hope it was the former and for our own good I also hope he still can find players that we need to get us out of the mess we again find ourselves in. Well either way, he’s the head of recruitment right? He’s supposed to use his contacts to source the best players he can get to fulfil the remit of the manager or the club’s philosophy. The interesting thing to note is Widdrington made certain comments where he seemed to talk down Coughlan style players and that we had moved on to a different type of player under BG and yet Widdrington seems more suited to signing GC style players! On the evidence so far if we are relying on him to source the best young kids then we might as well give up now quite frankly. We need an injection of quality scouting into the club especially if our aims are to play quality football and produce players that can fetch a profit. He might be able to raid Coventry for the odd gem like JCH but he doesn’t seem to have the consistency to furnish a whole squad of young talent. God knows we’ve tried to sign enough of them this summer.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 23:24:20 GMT
Think its fair to say that the players signed under the Widd/BG tenure were in the main considered to be excellent signings and a big improvement on what we had. My concern is in the way these players were chosen as it seems to me there was a lot of reliance on the myriad of statistics which are available now a days. for instance these stats may have shown that Westbrooke completed 90% passes, but what they do not show is that 80% of them were backwards or did nothing to create for the forwards. These stats can easily lead to false impressions being made and i believe too much is made of them , there is no substitute for going up to say, Crewe, on a wet windy night and watching a player first hand to get a more realistic overview of a player and if he is likely to fit in with the club concerned, Any one can be made to look good with stats and promotional videos but IMHO they should not be the yardstick for signing players, so my message to those concerned is get out yer mac and cap and go sit in a draughty stand somewhere (covid allowing!)and find us some talent! You noticed that they were top of the stats too eh? It seems that we don’t too much scouting on paper and not enough scouting of attributes like “heart” and attitude in the face of adversity. There is a real lack of character and leadership in the squad. Also I didn’t know too much about the rest but Harries stuck out as a questionable signing from day one. He’s not challenged any of the issues raised by the Wales fans I spoke to who follow Swansea and Cardiff’s Welsh youth prospects. I think overall the scouting of BG’s players has been pretty poor
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Post by Langford Gas on Jan 26, 2021 11:31:56 GMT
I disagree that we have too many Left backs, i think the problem is that we don't have any ! Leahy who has prob been our best performer this season at LB is a converted wingerTutunda has winger written all over him pretty much the same for Koki and Kelly the only true LB not up to standard ! All players except perhaps keepers will during their development as youngster play in different positions and thus know how the positions interlink with each other and any position will change as they develop psychically and technically and IMO will know how to play anywhere. Thus they are not locked into a position from the start. I once overheard an ex england captain who was the Gas manager state (deliberately with the player stood next to him) that as he only had 11 fit players he had no option but to play the worst winger he had ever seen to play as full back. Now a legend for Rovers is that player Ian Alexander. The issue surely is how he plays in the position he is asked to perform in and how in fits into the team not what fans perceive as "his position". The game is full of players who swop positions for the better (and possibly for the worst) The game is also full of player who were "failing" in lower divisions who later progress to hit the top. How many fans were in ecstasy when we signed Nigel Martyn, Ricky Lambert, Barry Hayles, Matty Taylor Jason Roberts etc etc etc and then were in dispair when we sold them. UTG I totally agree, but in this cae IMO none of the aforesaid players have been a success at LB, i think they are all decent Left side players but not bona fida LB like for instance Lee Brown. In old money all of them would have been Left Halves or wingers. The LB position is a worry for me and I believe we need a proper LB as well as a front man
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Post by playtowin on Jan 26, 2021 18:34:38 GMT
The manager tells TW the positions and type of players required. TW then puts forward suggestions. The club made a decision to try to get younger players with talent to then make money on down the line until the academy started churning out enough good young players.
I think the club probably went overboard on the young players and possibly could have signed a few more older players and a few less younger ones.
Not paying attention to how well prem u21 teams did in the pizza cup over the last few years has cost the club short term.
With a large squad I would like 2 or 3 out and 1 higher quality player come in.
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