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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 17:27:54 GMT
Welcome to the forum Harrystokegas. Firstly I understand you have concerns as do many others, but ultimately many of the concerns you have listed are based on pure guesswork and speculation. You, me or anyone else other than wael knows how much funding he has available. To say he will run out of money soon based on some calculations by another forum member who has absolutely no knowledge of Waels wealth is just not correct. I could guess that wael has hundreds of millions of pounds available to him but that’s all it would be just a guess. In regards to we were already in league one when he took over isn’t something I would agree with as for all we know the huge amount of positivity created around the club when the al qadi family purchased the club could of played a huge part in our end of season run in. The training ground is more than fit for purpose and to claim its underdeveloped is again opinion. Have you actually visited the site? I can tell you that the gym area is not “a dingy shed” and the main building will not be “comically small” once the extension is taken into account. I believe the build was started with the fact the design wasn’t what they wanted and the extension would be added was known. Are you claiming these things because it’s not super shiny and built from modern materials? Functionality over style for me everyday. A lot of money is being invested here and once all phases are complete I imagine it will be a very impressive training complex. The memorial stadium I can’t disagree with you, but wael knows this also. He has stated these issues many times. I can’t imagine anyone would invest the sums of money wael has without knowing a stadium will one day be built. I have to agree things seem to be moving extremely slowly on this front but I can imagine the last 18 months haven’t helped with this. Wael says we will have a new stadium, and call it bling faith on my part but I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve him. He hasn’t been proven a fantasist or liar yet in my opinion. I covered on another thread my thoughts on the gamble of giving JB so much power but it’s a gamble which ever route wael chooses. I do understand your concerns I just feel you could be a bit more rational with your claims It is a dingy shed not much larger I believe. I have visited the site btw. Some very valid estimations on the other forum have been undertaken about finances, I encourage you to check them out. Wael will get us a new stadium is indeed blind faith, but I’m the one espousing estimations and not being rational. Thanks for your response though. I sense it was more genuine and reasonable than some of the others I’ve had so far. Of you have been there then why say “I believe” like you have been informed rather than seen? I shmell a wat, a low down dorty wat. Sorry, Wine Wednesday is in full swing and I’m basically topping up from Tequila Tuesday.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 9, 2021 17:28:14 GMT
People obviously don’t like hearing anti Wael sentiment, I’m aware of that but all I’m trying to do is put forward reasoned arguments that convey my concerns about the state of affairs please respect that. As to supporting the club, I have my season ticket for next year. Can everyone who has replied to this thread claim to have done the same? You are not putting forward reasoned arguments.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 9, 2021 17:29:04 GMT
You forgot to mention that Wael does not take out Wonga loans in order to fight court battles over watertight contracts. At least Higgs fought for the club to get a new stadium. I’ve seen a distinct lack of fight from Wael on that front so far. How so? *Evidence to back up yet another anti owner claim required.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 17:29:11 GMT
So I realise as a bit of a newbie on this forum that I might be opening myself to accusations ‘of not being one of us’ etc ect, but please hear me out as I just want to depart my tuppence on the ownership situation. When Wael arrived we were all but a league one club. Not having any argument that he took us up in 2016 because he didn’t. That was DC and Higgs’s success and he made a point of very publicly glorying in it. Fair enough I suppose. We now find ourselves a league two club so he’s taken us back a division as far as league position entails. Devolution not evolution then. Stadium? No progress. However more alarming for me is the way it appears Wael is easily led. Feels like he bought too much into the Garner project, we got punished. Influenced too much by Widdrington and Starnes to appoint Tisdale, didn’t go well. Now we’ve allowed the next manager to have control to appoint members to the board, fire entire departments, bring a whole host of figures including Jennings who I’ve heard is next. Who let’s a new manager wield that kind of power? Like Joey and want him to do well, but if the high bar he’s set himself this season isn’t reached which lets be fair is a possibility considering our struggles in L2 in the past, it’ll all end up with tears. You may think its benevolent that Wael appears to be handling the debt situation but asked yourselves why did we rack up that amount of debt just to achieve 0 footballing success, no progress off the field and ultimately relegation in the first place? Even the beloved training ground is having issues, with planning having to be amended halfway through construction after the architects found that the building would not be fit for purpose for a football club. The result? A smallish building designed in the 1990s with a comically lack of windows, a small dingy shed for the gym, a couple of nice pitches and nothing much else. Will they be in for the start of next season? I encourage people to look at the training facilities of Oxford or Fleetwood, or MK Dons, to see how much of a downgrade this is to equivalent football clubs. Rovers fans lap it up due to the lack of progress thats ever been made off the field which is fair enough, but this development has not yet levelled the playing field to other modern football clubs around us, not by a long stretch. Then lets analyse his management of managers shall we? 3 managers have left with clouds over their heads amid rumours of friction with the board in GC, DC and PT. Does that smack of good management to you? The other manager BG got sacked after an atrocious record and the current manager JB, although I’m willing to give him time, has a pretty abysmal record too. Then there’s been fallings out with Ken Masters, fallings out with Steve Hamer, poor treatment of Mansell, embarrassing spat with the supporters club. Not exactly great headlines to accrue. I’m concerned about our future, genuinely concerned. It’s hard to say that but as the football club is close to my heart I’ve just got to speak out and say it. I’m concerned that Wael is rapidly running out funds and has bitten off more than he can chew, I’m concerned about the power we’ve randomly let one manager wield over the club, I’m concerned that an aging fan base and a run down stadium means trouble down the line too. So let me ask you this, say an alternative group of investors came forward, they had funds, reputable contacts in the game, genuine plans for improving the football club. Would this be a ripe opportunity for Wael to step aside? The man has the club at heart as he professes and I’ve not got many bad things to say about the man as a person, so I sincerely hope he considerers his future at the club long term and if the offer is right, steps a side and becomes one of us, a fan. good post 👍 agree with your concerns totally.
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 9, 2021 17:29:56 GMT
People obviously don’t like hearing anti Wael sentiment, I’m aware of that but all I’m trying to do is put forward reasoned arguments that convey my concerns about the state of affairs please respect that. As to supporting the club, I have my season ticket for next year. Can everyone who has replied to this thread claim to have done the same? You are not putting forward reasoned arguments. Yes I am. Reasoned arguments are ones that have been thought through, argued and expressed logic behind them. I believe I have met all three criteria, feel free to disagree but that’s just your opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 17:30:08 GMT
So I realise as a bit of a newbie on this forum that I might be opening myself to accusations ‘of not being one of us’ etc ect, but please hear me out as I just want to depart my tuppence on the ownership situation. When Wael arrived we were all but a league one club. Not having any argument that he took us up in 2016 because he didn’t. That was DC and Higgs’s success and he made a point of very publicly glorying in it. Fair enough I suppose. We now find ourselves a league two club so he’s taken us back a division as far as league position entails. Devolution not evolution then. Stadium? No progress. However more alarming for me is the way it appears Wael is easily led. Feels like he bought too much into the Garner project, we got punished. Influenced too much by Widdrington and Starnes to appoint Tisdale, didn’t go well. Now we’ve allowed the next manager to have control to appoint members to the board, fire entire departments, bring a whole host of figures including Jennings who I’ve heard is next. Who let’s a new manager wield that kind of power? Like Joey and want him to do well, but if the high bar he’s set himself this season isn’t reached which lets be fair is a possibility considering our struggles in L2 in the past, it’ll all end up with tears. You may think its benevolent that Wael appears to be handling the debt situation but asked yourselves why did we rack up that amount of debt just to achieve 0 footballing success, no progress off the field and ultimately relegation in the first place? Even the beloved training ground is having issues, with planning having to be amended halfway through construction after the architects found that the building would not be fit for purpose for a football club. The result? A smallish building designed in the 1990s with a comically lack of windows, a small dingy shed for the gym, a couple of nice pitches and nothing much else. Will they be in for the start of next season? I encourage people to look at the training facilities of Oxford or Fleetwood, or MK Dons, to see how much of a downgrade this is to equivalent football clubs. Rovers fans lap it up due to the lack of progress thats ever been made off the field which is fair enough, but this development has not yet levelled the playing field to other modern football clubs around us, not by a long stretch. Then lets analyse his management of managers shall we? 3 managers have left with clouds over their heads amid rumours of friction with the board in GC, DC and PT. Does that smack of good management to you? The other manager BG got sacked after an atrocious record and the current manager JB, although I’m willing to give him time, has a pretty abysmal record too. Then there’s been fallings out with Ken Masters, fallings out with Steve Hamer, poor treatment of Mansell, embarrassing spat with the supporters club. Not exactly great headlines to accrue. I’m concerned about our future, genuinely concerned. It’s hard to say that but as the football club is close to my heart I’ve just got to speak out and say it. I’m concerned that Wael is rapidly running out funds and has bitten off more than he can chew, I’m concerned about the power we’ve randomly let one manager wield over the club, I’m concerned that an aging fan base and a run down stadium means trouble down the line too. So let me ask you this, say an alternative group of investors came forward, they had funds, reputable contacts in the game, genuine plans for improving the football club. Would this be a ripe opportunity for Wael to step aside? The man has the club at heart as he professes and I’ve not got many bad things to say about the man as a person, so I sincerely hope he considerers his future at the club long term and if the offer is right, steps a side and becomes one of us, a fan. at the same time as agreeing, the last bit makes you sound like you have some mates with an agenda tho
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Post by Okebournegas on Jun 9, 2021 17:30:19 GMT
Didn’t bother reading on after seeing the thread title
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jun 9, 2021 17:30:33 GMT
Fleetwood's is a genuinely first class facility. Not denying that Fleetwood's facility is too notch, merely pointing out that it is also a facility for the local residents, not a private one. Which can generate an income, unlike ours.
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 9, 2021 17:31:07 GMT
At least Higgs fought for the club to get a new stadium. I’ve seen a distinct lack of fight from Wael on that front so far. How so? *Evidence to back up yet another anti owner claim required. See any plans from Wael? Any evidence that he’s willing to go to court and fight for the club’s new stadium? That was merely the claim I just made. Don’t get me started about Higgs time at the club but he deserves some respect on that front.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 9, 2021 17:31:18 GMT
You are not putting forward reasoned arguments. Yes I am. Reasoned arguments are ones that have been thought through, argued and expressed logic behind them. I believe I have met all three criteria, feel free to disagree but that’s just your opinion. You said Wael isnt fighting for a new ground. You havent given any reason or logic for that claim.
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 9, 2021 17:31:30 GMT
Didn’t bother reading on after seeing the thread title Bothered posting though? Good for you.
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 9, 2021 17:31:48 GMT
Yes I am. Reasoned arguments are ones that have been thought through, argued and expressed logic behind them. I believe I have met all three criteria, feel free to disagree but that’s just your opinion. You said Wael isnt fighting for a new ground. You havent given any reason or logic for that claim. Refer to other post.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 9, 2021 17:32:20 GMT
How so? *Evidence to back up yet another anti owner claim required. See any plans from Wael? Any evidence that he’s willing to go to court and fight for the club’s new stadium? That was merely the claim I just made. Don’t get me started about Higgs time at the club but he deserves some respect on that front. As does Wael. See how easy that was?
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 9, 2021 17:32:55 GMT
So I realise as a bit of a newbie on this forum that I might be opening myself to accusations ‘of not being one of us’ etc ect, but please hear me out as I just want to depart my tuppence on the ownership situation. When Wael arrived we were all but a league one club. Not having any argument that he took us up in 2016 because he didn’t. That was DC and Higgs’s success and he made a point of very publicly glorying in it. Fair enough I suppose. We now find ourselves a league two club so he’s taken us back a division as far as league position entails. Devolution not evolution then. Stadium? No progress. However more alarming for me is the way it appears Wael is easily led. Feels like he bought too much into the Garner project, we got punished. Influenced too much by Widdrington and Starnes to appoint Tisdale, didn’t go well. Now we’ve allowed the next manager to have control to appoint members to the board, fire entire departments, bring a whole host of figures including Jennings who I’ve heard is next. Who let’s a new manager wield that kind of power? Like Joey and want him to do well, but if the high bar he’s set himself this season isn’t reached which lets be fair is a possibility considering our struggles in L2 in the past, it’ll all end up with tears. You may think its benevolent that Wael appears to be handling the debt situation but asked yourselves why did we rack up that amount of debt just to achieve 0 footballing success, no progress off the field and ultimately relegation in the first place? Even the beloved training ground is having issues, with planning having to be amended halfway through construction after the architects found that the building would not be fit for purpose for a football club. The result? A smallish building designed in the 1990s with a comically lack of windows, a small dingy shed for the gym, a couple of nice pitches and nothing much else. Will they be in for the start of next season? I encourage people to look at the training facilities of Oxford or Fleetwood, or MK Dons, to see how much of a downgrade this is to equivalent football clubs. Rovers fans lap it up due to the lack of progress thats ever been made off the field which is fair enough, but this development has not yet levelled the playing field to other modern football clubs around us, not by a long stretch. Then lets analyse his management of managers shall we? 3 managers have left with clouds over their heads amid rumours of friction with the board in GC, DC and PT. Does that smack of good management to you? The other manager BG got sacked after an atrocious record and the current manager JB, although I’m willing to give him time, has a pretty abysmal record too. Then there’s been fallings out with Ken Masters, fallings out with Steve Hamer, poor treatment of Mansell, embarrassing spat with the supporters club. Not exactly great headlines to accrue. I’m concerned about our future, genuinely concerned. It’s hard to say that but as the football club is close to my heart I’ve just got to speak out and say it. I’m concerned that Wael is rapidly running out funds and has bitten off more than he can chew, I’m concerned about the power we’ve randomly let one manager wield over the club, I’m concerned that an aging fan base and a run down stadium means trouble down the line too. So let me ask you this, say an alternative group of investors came forward, they had funds, reputable contacts in the game, genuine plans for improving the football club. Would this be a ripe opportunity for Wael to step aside? The man has the club at heart as he professes and I’ve not got many bad things to say about the man as a person, so I sincerely hope he considerers his future at the club long term and if the offer is right, steps a side and becomes one of us, a fan. at the same time as agreeing, the last bit makes you sound like you have some mates with an agenda tho I have no agenda my friend, just expressing my deep felt concerns. Appreciate that you agreed with some it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 17:33:02 GMT
You are not putting forward reasoned arguments. Yes I am. Reasoned arguments are ones that have been thought through, argued and expressed logic behind them. I believe I have met all three criteria, feel free to disagree but that’s just your opinion. Pl your argument against Mansell going was based on his old teammates tweets. Any evidence regarding his performance in his actual job? His ability to develop youth? Or we just going on references from teammates who experienced a great couple of years together?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 17:33:55 GMT
Not denying that Fleetwood's facility is too notch, merely pointing out that it is also a facility for the local residents, not a private one. Which can generate an income, unlike ours. Agreed it can't, but that was not an option on that site as far as I am aware. A football stadium elsewhere however? Yes.
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 9, 2021 17:34:12 GMT
See any plans from Wael? Any evidence that he’s willing to go to court and fight for the club’s new stadium? That was merely the claim I just made. Don’t get me started about Higgs time at the club but he deserves some respect on that front. As does Wael. See how easy that was? Ah a reasoned argument from you quite obviously. Care to show these mythical plans? From day one Wael piped up and said he’d secure us a new ground yet I’ve seen nothing since. Those are just the facts my dear friend.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 17:34:13 GMT
Who was that consortium that wanted us and some chap came on pretending to be a fan again? Unless anyone has the money to buy wael out then no point discussing really. If you want disgruntled fans to push him out, you're out of luck.
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Post by Wembley_Gas on Jun 9, 2021 17:34:51 GMT
Less debt. In league 2 (we were in league 2, so no change there then) Training ground (we didn’t have one then) The Mem is still the Mem, but we have two extra tents, refreshed tarmac behind the Thatchers, and we have two new stands, even if they’re tents. We’ve not become Man City over night but things aren’t any worse than in February 2016. Not much better, granted, but there has been progress. If you want to compare the last 5 years however, to the five years that preceded them. Well, it’s night and day isn’t it. More debt than what Wael took over with. And an enormous amount of equity to boot. We were all but in league one as I said, Wael takes no credit for that promotion. The mem is still the mem, exactly the problem. Don’t see any progress, regression mainly. Is it night and day, previous 5 years under Higgs, one relegation, bit of debt accrued chasing credible stadium plans, two promotions. Last 5 years under Wael, 1 relegation, lots of debt racked up, underdeveloped training ground. Wael has made mistakes this is true, abetted by his chosen board. I believe we’ve been lucky in our well meaning chairmen/owners in the last 50 years, fighting the inevitable loss-making tide to keep us afloat despite stadiums not fit for purpose and inadequate training facilities. However, despite Higgs undoubtedly strong rovers leanings, his regime’s failure to recognise slipping into non-league was happening and entering into the wonga loan to chase the ever receding Sainsbury’s dependent UWE stadium which by all accounts would have hamstrung our revenues if we’d ever completed it as originally negotiated, was our lowest ebb and the point we could have gone bust. Wael’s conversion of debt to equity did wipe the debts out and yes the equity therefore makes him more profit should he decide to sell. However, he guaranteed the club would survive the pandemic and that means he is covering any debts we incur, and he’s still investing in both the infrastructure and the playing squad, coming across as a man of integrity aiming to do his best for the fanbase. I cannot understand why the spiteful minority want to oust such an owner’s tenure prematurely at the first sign of a possible takeover whose motives would be uncertain if we were in much better shape than we are. Yes we might get another owner with a similar outlook but there are plenty of examples of owners at Blackburn, Blackpool, Swindon, Charlton, Portsmouth, Bury and Darlington whose actions were to the detriment to the club. Far better if those expressing such dissatisfaction turn their attention to determining how Wael’s tenure can be more fruitful and engage with the newest member of the board. His role is to ensure there is a conduit between the fans and the owner. Turn the negative energy into a positive one instead. Better that than constantly sniping amongst ourselves and achieving nothing except confusing those at the helm of our club as to what they really need to concentrate on...keeping themselves in their roles or actually performing their roles to the best of their abilities.
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 9, 2021 17:35:31 GMT
Yes I am. Reasoned arguments are ones that have been thought through, argued and expressed logic behind them. I believe I have met all three criteria, feel free to disagree but that’s just your opinion. Pl your argument against Mansell going was based on his old teammates tweets. Any evidence regarding his performance in his actual job? His ability to develop youth? Or we just going on references from teammates who experienced a great couple of years together? There seems to be quite a crop of talented youngsters coming through doesn’t there? Yet we let a club legend go and in the worst way possible.
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