|
Post by cj on Oct 11, 2021 11:27:36 GMT
the man has a lot to sort out after last season there is no one on this site that can do any better than mr barton JUST GET OFF HIS BACK you idiots how can you expect a man to do a good job for the team when everyone is against him.i am a season ticket holder and i will place my 100% support for him you cant change the fortunes of ths club around in the blink of an eye stick with the manager we have i honestly believe he will deliver not just because we won saturday he is the right man for the job all the best joey!!!!! Genuine question for you. I don't know the answer because I am apparently one of those "idiots" you speak of. What exactly has he done so far that explains how you, or anyone in fact, can "believe he will deliver" and that "he is the right man for the job"? Apart from just blind faith of course.
Also, it is good that you "100% support" him. Personally, I find it and will always find it extremely bizarre that anyone, "season ticket holder" or not, can support a manager who literally gave up after becoming manager and decided to slag off the players, which factually made them worse (JB joined when we were 19th and we ended 24th), especially calling them a bunch of losers for example, and in this whole process, he sacrificed our L1 status. This is an unforgivable act as a so called manager and should have been sacked for this alone. Yet some people, and I won't be disrespectful and call these lot "idiots" or other names, decided to give JB a free pass and this and even wanted him and trusted him to have free reign over the club to rebuild a worse side than last season. Bizarre is really an understatement as well.
|
|
|
Post by richie on Oct 11, 2021 11:34:54 GMT
the man has a lot to sort out after last season there is no one on this site that can do any better than mr barton JUST GET OFF HIS BACK you idiots how can you expect a man to do a good job for the team when everyone is against him.i am a season ticket holder and i will place my 100% support for him you cant change the fortunes of ths club around in the blink of an eye stick with the manager we have i honestly believe he will deliver not just because we won saturday he is the right man for the job all the best joey!!!!! Genuine question for you. I don't know the answer because I am apparently one of those "idiots" you speak of. What exactly has he done so far that explains how you, or anyone in fact, can "believe he will deliver" and that "he is the right man for the job"? Apart from just blind faith of course.
Also, it is good that you "100% support" him. Personally, I find it and will always find it extremely bizarre that anyone, "season ticket holder" or not, can support a manager who literally gave up after becoming manager and decided to slag off the players, which factually made them worse (JB joined when we were 19th and we ended 24th), especially calling them a bunch of losers for example, and in this whole process, he sacrificed our L1 status. This is an unforgivable act as a so called manager and should have been sacked for this alone. Yet some people, and I won't be disrespectful and call these lot "idiots" or other names, decided to give JB a free pass and this and even wanted him and trusted him to have free reign over the club to rebuild a worse side than last season. Bizarre is really an understatement as well.
was JB right to call them losers? professional pride should have prevented them finishing last. Loads of people on here go on about last season, from Garner to the players we had - all of them were woeful for us, i wouldn't have any of them back in any circumstance. Not one person apologised for last season all have moved on without a backwards glance. We had people like Manse in the set up recently and there are calls to bring back players into the fold that had success, you wouldnt get me asking for players like Upson to come back into the fold down the line. I think the current squad is much better than last seasons already and we just need time, JB might have had 30 games but its only 11 with these players, it should be better but I think the situation is that we're getting there, no magic fix
|
|
|
Post by cj on Oct 11, 2021 11:42:19 GMT
Carlisle will finish in the top half, eventually we'll look back on this as a good win one day. Matter of time before Swindle drop like a stone Swindon are top 3 and have been in and around the top 7 so far. They just beat the top of the league away too 2-0. Not sure how you can say they will drop like a stone.
As for Carlisle, they looked a poor side and they are in very poor form. But I agree with you that they could finish top half because they just sacked their manager. A new manager could make all the difference. Same for us. We have looked a poor side all season and been bottom half since game 1 and mainly been bottom 8 all season. A new manager now (who knows what he is doing and how to get the best from these players), could make a big difference and see us, like Carlisle, finish in the top half.
|
|
|
Post by warehamgas on Oct 11, 2021 11:43:56 GMT
the man has a lot to sort out after last season there is no one on this site that can do any better than mr barton JUST GET OFF HIS BACK you idiots how can you expect a man to do a good job for the team when everyone is against him.i am a season ticket holder and i will place my 100% support for him you cant change the fortunes of ths club around in the blink of an eye stick with the manager we have i honestly believe he will deliver not just because we won saturday he is the right man for the job all the best joey!!!!! Genuine question for you. I don't know the answer because I am apparently one of those "idiots" you speak of. What exactly has he done so far that explains how you, or anyone in fact, can "believe he will deliver" and that "he is the right man for the job"? Apart from just blind faith of course.
Also, it is good that you "100% support" him. Personally, I find it and will always find it extremely bizarre that anyone, "season ticket holder" or not, can support a manager who literally gave up after becoming manager and decided to slag off the players, which factually made them worse (JB joined when we were 19th and we ended 24th), especially calling them a bunch of losers for example, and in this whole process, he sacrificed our L1 status. This is an unforgivable act as a so called manager and should have been sacked for this alone. Yet some people, and I won't be disrespectful and call these lot "idiots" or other names, decided to give JB a free pass and this and even wanted him and trusted him to have free reign over the club to rebuild a worse side than last season. Bizarre is really an understatement as well.
Good questions cj. You may wait sometime for an answer though! 😉 UTG!
|
|
|
Post by cj on Oct 11, 2021 12:04:57 GMT
Genuine question for you. I don't know the answer because I am apparently one of those "idiots" you speak of. What exactly has he done so far that explains how you, or anyone in fact, can "believe he will deliver" and that "he is the right man for the job"? Apart from just blind faith of course.
Also, it is good that you "100% support" him. Personally, I find it and will always find it extremely bizarre that anyone, "season ticket holder" or not, can support a manager who literally gave up after becoming manager and decided to slag off the players, which factually made them worse (JB joined when we were 19th and we ended 24th), especially calling them a bunch of losers for example, and in this whole process, he sacrificed our L1 status. This is an unforgivable act as a so called manager and should have been sacked for this alone. Yet some people, and I won't be disrespectful and call these lot "idiots" or other names, decided to give JB a free pass and this and even wanted him and trusted him to have free reign over the club to rebuild a worse side than last season. Bizarre is really an understatement as well.
was JB right to call them losers? professional pride should have prevented them finishing last. Loads of people on here go on about last season, from Garner to the players we had - all of them were woeful for us, i wouldn't have any of them back in any circumstance. Not one person apologised for last season all have moved on without a backwards glance. We had people like Manse in the set up recently and there are calls to bring back players into the fold that had success, you wouldnt get me asking for players like Upson to come back into the fold down the line. I think the current squad is much better than last seasons already and we just need time, JB might have had 30 games but its only 11 with these players, it should be better but I think the situation is that we're getting there, no magic fix No he wasn't right. Thinking it is fine. Maybe even sharing it with the players privately in training could be ok if he worded it the right way and was trying to push the players to prove him wrong. But publicly doing it was just not right. Some fans loved him speaking out. But the bigger picture was that it made the situation worse, which was proved by his form and where we finished in the table. Unforgivable act.
The 2 previous managers performances hadn't left us in the bottom 4, regardless how bad they both were. We were 19th when JB arrived so outside the bottom 4. Don't get me wrong, I am glad they both were sacked but we hired a worse manager. The way JB handled it after his arrival was wrong and poor man management. JFH became Burton's manager a month earlier than JB became our manager. Burton were rock bottom way behind us. He did though had the luxury of a transfer window while JB didn't. JFH signed 5 or 6 players in that window. But not only did he get the best out of the players he inherited, he got the best out of the players he signed and got them gelling quickly. He didn't go in kicking off and publicly slagging off the players that were at the club. He show good man management skills and not only did he gain the points to catch us, they finished 19 points ahead of us.
Let's say we hired Sol Campbell instead of JB. Or Keith Hill instead of JB. Or any other manager really. Say they did the exact same thing as JB - slagging off the players, blaming everyone else, giving up and just allowed us to finish bottom. I am positive they would not be getting the same level of support as what JB got and is still getting. Why is that? I think some (not all) people are too proud to admit they are wrong about JB. So many people have admitted they got it wrong but some refuse to budge for whatever reason.
And I don't care if he has only had 11 games this season. His record starts from his 1st game with us last season. The players he inherited became HIS players. He failed to manage them. He failed to improve them. He made them worse with his words. He has had 29 league games and won 7 of them. Not good enough.
|
|
|
Post by stapletongas on Oct 11, 2021 12:09:55 GMT
We all know that the title of this post is utter crap, you only have to look at this forum to realise that it's always the next match that defines our season
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Oct 11, 2021 12:17:52 GMT
We all know that the title of this post is utter crap, you only have to look at this forum to realise that it's always the next match that defines our season Bradford. Away win.
|
|
|
Post by cj on Oct 11, 2021 12:24:27 GMT
Looking at our fixtures I believe the next ten games will define our season. If we are in the bottom 6 at the end of this period then I think we will struggle into mid table by seasons end however if we are within a couple of points of top ten then I feel we will have quite a good season and could get Play offs or better. Next ten games- Bradford A, Colchester A, Newport H, Harrogate A, Northampton H, Tranmere H, Salford City A, Forest Green A, Port Vale H, Rochdale H. That is quite a tough set of fixtures.
Bradford (A) Haven't lost at home all season. Colchester (A) Haven't won at home but we've only won 1 away in 10 months. Newport (H) Localish derby. Difficult to predict. Harrogate (A) They're flying at the moment & haven't lost at home. Northampton (H) Decent on the road. Tranmere (H) Tough to beat. Don't concede many goals. Salford (A) Pretty good home record & will probably pick up form soon. Forest Green (A) Current L2 leaders. Port Vale (H) Looking good under DC. Currently 4th.
Rochdale (H) A side that will probably finish mid table, probably top half.
I think we'll lose to Bradford, Harrogate, Salford, Forest Green, and Port Vale.
If we can win the other games 15 points would be a decent return from the 10 matches. However, we'll probably draw or lose at least 1 of the more winnable games so I see achieving 10-13 points from those fixtures.
If we get a positive result at Bradford I'll feel a lot more optimistic.
4 of those next 10 games are against 4 of the top 6 in the league (FGR, Harrogate, Port Vale and Tranmere). I would write those games off. Anything from these games will be a bonus.
3 of those next 10 games are against teams just below us and all 3 are within 3 points (Salford and Rochdale both 1 point behind and Colchester 3 points behind).
3 of those next 10 games are against teams just above us and all 3 are within 3 points (Northampton and Newport both 2 points ahead and Bradford 3 points ahead).
For me, out of the next 30 points available:
8 points or less is unacceptable and we are in deep trouble. 9-11 points is just about acceptable but still not great. 12-15 points would be good. 16-18 points would be great and I would start to believe that JB is on the right path to prove me wrong.
19 or more points would be unbelievable and I would become Mr Positive.
|
|
|
Post by richie on Oct 11, 2021 12:58:12 GMT
was JB right to call them losers? professional pride should have prevented them finishing last. Loads of people on here go on about last season, from Garner to the players we had - all of them were woeful for us, i wouldn't have any of them back in any circumstance. Not one person apologised for last season all have moved on without a backwards glance. We had people like Manse in the set up recently and there are calls to bring back players into the fold that had success, you wouldnt get me asking for players like Upson to come back into the fold down the line. I think the current squad is much better than last seasons already and we just need time, JB might have had 30 games but its only 11 with these players, it should be better but I think the situation is that we're getting there, no magic fix No he wasn't right. Thinking it is fine. Maybe even sharing it with the players privately in training could be ok if he worded it the right way and was trying to push the players to prove him wrong. But publicly doing it was just not right. Some fans loved him speaking out. But the bigger picture was that it made the situation worse, which was proved by his form and where we finished in the table. Unforgivable act.
The 2 previous managers performances hadn't left us in the bottom 4, regardless how bad they both were. We were 19th when JB arrived so outside the bottom 4. Don't get me wrong, I am glad they both were sacked but we hired a worse manager. The way JB handled it after his arrival was wrong and poor man management. JFH became Burton's manager a month earlier than JB became our manager. Burton were rock bottom way behind us. He did though had the luxury of a transfer window while JB didn't. JFH signed 5 or 6 players in that window. But not only did he get the best out of the players he inherited, he got the best out of the players he signed and got them gelling quickly. He didn't go in kicking off and publicly slagging off the players that were at the club. He show good man management skills and not only did he gain the points to catch us, they finished 19 points ahead of us.
Let's say we hired Sol Campbell instead of JB. Or Keith Hill instead of JB. Or any other manager really. Say they did the exact same thing as JB - slagging off the players, blaming everyone else, giving up and just allowed us to finish bottom. I am positive they would not be getting the same level of support as what JB got and is still getting. Why is that? I think some (not all) people are too proud to admit they are wrong about JB. So many people have admitted they got it wrong but some refuse to budge for whatever reason.
And I don't care if he has only had 11 games this season. His record starts from his 1st game with us last season. The players he inherited became HIS players. He failed to manage them. He failed to improve them. He made them worse with his words. He has had 29 league games and won 7 of them. Not good enough.
could not disagree more with the first paragraph, the players need to look at themselves they took good money all year and didnt produce. How players like Hanlan engineered a move away is beyond belief, his goal returns were pathetic and the stats say he should have had many more, instead of staying to write a wrong he took the money and ran. The first thing any manager does is bring in his own players so im not sure how discarding the ones he had is frowned upon. Yes he didnt motivate them last year but the damage was done, we had a top 6 budget in league one and as you say were 19th when he can in so im guessing motivation was an issue before JB arrived.
|
|
|
Post by cj on Oct 11, 2021 13:23:57 GMT
No he wasn't right. Thinking it is fine. Maybe even sharing it with the players privately in training could be ok if he worded it the right way and was trying to push the players to prove him wrong. But publicly doing it was just not right. Some fans loved him speaking out. But the bigger picture was that it made the situation worse, which was proved by his form and where we finished in the table. Unforgivable act.
The 2 previous managers performances hadn't left us in the bottom 4, regardless how bad they both were. We were 19th when JB arrived so outside the bottom 4. Don't get me wrong, I am glad they both were sacked but we hired a worse manager. The way JB handled it after his arrival was wrong and poor man management. JFH became Burton's manager a month earlier than JB became our manager. Burton were rock bottom way behind us. He did though had the luxury of a transfer window while JB didn't. JFH signed 5 or 6 players in that window. But not only did he get the best out of the players he inherited, he got the best out of the players he signed and got them gelling quickly. He didn't go in kicking off and publicly slagging off the players that were at the club. He show good man management skills and not only did he gain the points to catch us, they finished 19 points ahead of us.
Let's say we hired Sol Campbell instead of JB. Or Keith Hill instead of JB. Or any other manager really. Say they did the exact same thing as JB - slagging off the players, blaming everyone else, giving up and just allowed us to finish bottom. I am positive they would not be getting the same level of support as what JB got and is still getting. Why is that? I think some (not all) people are too proud to admit they are wrong about JB. So many people have admitted they got it wrong but some refuse to budge for whatever reason.
And I don't care if he has only had 11 games this season. His record starts from his 1st game with us last season. The players he inherited became HIS players. He failed to manage them. He failed to improve them. He made them worse with his words. He has had 29 league games and won 7 of them. Not good enough.
could not disagree more with the first paragraph, the players need to look at themselves they took good money all year and didnt produce. How players like Hanlan engineered a move away is beyond belief, his goal returns were pathetic and the stats say he should have had many more, instead of staying to write a wrong he took the money and ran. The first thing any manager does is bring in his own players so im not sure how discarding the ones he had is frowned upon. Yes he didnt motivate them last year but the damage was done, we had a top 6 budget in league one and as you say were 19th when he can in so im guessing motivation was an issue before JB arrived. No probs. Agree to disagree then. I haven't seen once where a new manager publicly slagging off the squad he has inherited - have ever worked for any club. I have seen though many times where a new manager publicly supports the squad he has inherited and does what he can to get the best out of his players - have worked for many clubs.
Also, the first thing any manager does is work with the players he has inherited. They become his players. He then works with them and assess what he would need in/out for when the next window opens. Immediately discarding the players he has inherited when there is no window left to change the situation was not sensible whatsoever because what happens next is exactly what happened to us.
Let me ask you this, while sitting 19th with still 18 league games to go (over a third of a season left to play), if JB said to you before he took the job that the players he would be inheriting are not good enough and that he won't bother trying with them and he would just write off the remainder of the season, and start fresh in L2 next season, so sacrificing our L1 status without even trying to save us, would you have given him the job?
|
|
|
Post by richie on Oct 11, 2021 13:37:33 GMT
I might be inclined to prove him wrong but having not done it for the 2/3rds of the season beforehand it would be unlikely whatever. After all in the lower leagues you don’t just play for this season but your whole career which could result in you ending up unsigned.
With COVID we were told at the time thousands of players would be released.
If it were me, I’d be playing for my own future
|
|
|
Post by bridgwatergas on Oct 11, 2021 13:41:21 GMT
could not disagree more with the first paragraph, the players need to look at themselves they took good money all year and didnt produce. How players like Hanlan engineered a move away is beyond belief, his goal returns were pathetic and the stats say he should have had many more, instead of staying to write a wrong he took the money and ran. The first thing any manager does is bring in his own players so im not sure how discarding the ones he had is frowned upon. Yes he didnt motivate them last year but the damage was done, we had a top 6 budget in league one and as you say were 19th when he can in so im guessing motivation was an issue before JB arrived. No probs. Agree to disagree then. I haven't seen once where a new manager publicly slagging off the squad he has inherited - have ever worked for any club. I have seen though many times where a new manager publicly supports the squad he has inherited and does what he can to get the best out of his players - have worked for many clubs.
Also, the first thing any manager does is work with the players he has inherited. They become his players. He then works with them and assess what he would need in/out for when the next window opens. Immediately discarding the players he has inherited when there is no window left to change the situation was not sensible whatsoever because what happens next is exactly what happened to us.
Let me ask you this, while sitting 19th with still 18 league games to go (over a third of a season left to play), if JB said to you before he took the job that the players he would be inheriting are not good enough and that he won't bother trying with them and he would just write off the remainder of the season, and start fresh in L2 next season, so sacrificing our L1 status without even trying to save us, would you have given him the job?
But he didn't and when he first came in as manager talked up the players especially Hanlon to try and build confidence. For me the players were a lost cause as this was there 3rd manager to play for and most signed for BG and the style of football he wanted to play. Then they had to change to the PT way of playing which I never quite understood what that was and the players downed tools for him. I honestly believe JB thought he could turn this around and save us but then realised he had inherited a team that were just not a team but players who didn't really want to be there anymore or just didn't care. Was the way he treated them fair? Some say yes some say no,what was going on behind the scenes and at the training ground suggests we were a lost cause before JB arrived. Another point alot of people on here have said how much they liked Clint Hill but I never saw any improvement in our defending whilst he was here in fact it got worse which again leads me to believe the damage was done long before JB and his team got here. There are many unanswered questions from last season and i doubt we will ever find out what really happened we can all guess and have an opinion but that's all it is. For now JB gets my full backing and time to build a new squad
|
|
|
Post by cj on Oct 11, 2021 13:51:39 GMT
No probs. Agree to disagree then. I haven't seen once where a new manager publicly slagging off the squad he has inherited - have ever worked for any club. I have seen though many times where a new manager publicly supports the squad he has inherited and does what he can to get the best out of his players - have worked for many clubs.
Also, the first thing any manager does is work with the players he has inherited. They become his players. He then works with them and assess what he would need in/out for when the next window opens. Immediately discarding the players he has inherited when there is no window left to change the situation was not sensible whatsoever because what happens next is exactly what happened to us.
Let me ask you this, while sitting 19th with still 18 league games to go (over a third of a season left to play), if JB said to you before he took the job that the players he would be inheriting are not good enough and that he won't bother trying with them and he would just write off the remainder of the season, and start fresh in L2 next season, so sacrificing our L1 status without even trying to save us, would you have given him the job?
But he didn't and when he first came in as manager talked up the players especially Hanlon to try and build confidence. For me the players were a lost cause as this was there 3rd manager to play for and most signed for BG and the style of football he wanted to play. Then they had to change to the PT way of playing which I never quite understood what that was and the players downed tools for him. I honestly believe JB thought he could turn this around and save us but then realised he had inherited a team that were just not a team but players who didn't really want to be there anymore or just didn't care. Was the way he treated them fair? Some say yes some say no,what was going on behind the scenes and at the training ground suggests we were a lost cause before JB arrived. Another point alot of people on here have said how much they liked Clint Hill but I never saw any improvement in our defending whilst he was here in fact it got worse which again leads me to believe the damage was done long before JB and his team got here. There are many unanswered questions from last season and i doubt we will ever find out what really happened we can all guess and have an opinion but that's all it is. For now JB gets my full backing and time to build a new squad Within weeks he changed his tune and was slagging off the players and former employees with the negligent stuff.
Even if he believed the players were a lost cause, JB didn't do enough. Personally I would put this down to his lack of managerial experience and no experience of a relegation fight as manager. A more experienced manager, especially one who knows how to deal with relegation fights would have handled this differently.
|
|
|
Post by chilly1883 on Oct 11, 2021 13:56:19 GMT
Classic positivity from the same old guard! Do you all drink together? What a great laugh would be 🤣 Classic negative needling post criticising others without offering an opinion from the usual suspect. At least if those posters went for a drink together they’d have something to discuss! You’d be sat in a pub on your own passing out thinly veiled criticisms of people at other tables! but being positive about it😁
|
|
|
Post by bridgwatergas on Oct 11, 2021 14:00:45 GMT
But he didn't and when he first came in as manager talked up the players especially Hanlon to try and build confidence. For me the players were a lost cause as this was there 3rd manager to play for and most signed for BG and the style of football he wanted to play. Then they had to change to the PT way of playing which I never quite understood what that was and the players downed tools for him. I honestly believe JB thought he could turn this around and save us but then realised he had inherited a team that were just not a team but players who didn't really want to be there anymore or just didn't care. Was the way he treated them fair? Some say yes some say no,what was going on behind the scenes and at the training ground suggests we were a lost cause before JB arrived. Another point alot of people on here have said how much they liked Clint Hill but I never saw any improvement in our defending whilst he was here in fact it got worse which again leads me to believe the damage was done long before JB and his team got here. There are many unanswered questions from last season and i doubt we will ever find out what really happened we can all guess and have an opinion but that's all it is. For now JB gets my full backing and time to build a new squad Within weeks he changed his tune and was slagging off the players and former employees with the negligent stuff.
Even if he believed the players were a lost cause, JB didn't do enough. Personally I would put this down to his lack of managerial experience and no experience of a relegation fight as manager. A more experienced manager, especially one who knows how to deal with relegation fights would have handled this differently. Can't argue with that maybe he did give up we will never know. I'm not sure many managers would have got us out of that mess experienced or not and if I remember correctly there were not many managers of that ilk available or would have taken the job.
|
|
|
Post by gashead4ever on Oct 11, 2021 14:05:14 GMT
1st 20 games didnt difine boltons season last year
|
|
|
Post by bridgwatergas on Oct 11, 2021 14:10:21 GMT
1st 20 games didnt difine boltons season last year Thats always been the way i have thought. Some seem to forget we are in league 2 where the results show you can win 3 or 4 games and move up 10 places or lose 3 or 4 and move down quickly. I bet the teams at the top now most won't be there at the end of the season they are having there good run of form now and will drop away.
|
|
|
Post by cj on Oct 11, 2021 14:42:20 GMT
1st 20 games didnt difine boltons season last year
Out of interest, I did a bit of a pointless exercise, I looked up the last 5 seasons (couldn't be bothered to go back further) in L2 to see who finished in the top 3 (like Bolton did) and see where they were after 20 games that season. Apart from Bolton, all other top 3 finishers over the last 5 seasons in L2, all were in the top 7 after 20 games. So it would seem Bolton did a rare thing last season and therefore shouldn't really be something we can use as some sort of marker, not saying that you are doing so by the way.
20/21 season ended:
1 Cheltenham
2 Cambridge
3 Bolton
After 20 games: Cheltenham was 7th Cambridge was 6th
Bolton was 15th _________________
19/20 season ended: 1 Swindon 2 Crewe 3 Plymouth
After 20 games: Swindon was 1st
Crewe was 4th
Plymouth was 7th _________________
18/19 season ended: 1 Lincoln
2 Bury
3 MK Dons
After 20 games: Lincoln was 1st
Bury was 6th
MK Dons was 2nd
_________________
17/18 season ended: 1 Accrington
2 Luton 3 Wycombe
After 20 games: Accrington 3rd
Luton 1st
Wycombe 5th
_________________
16/17 season ended: 1 Portsmouth
2 Plymouth
3 Doncaster
After 20 games:
Portsmouth 4th
Plymough 1st
Doncaster 3rd
|
|
|
Post by richie on Oct 11, 2021 15:13:31 GMT
the point is that its all irrelevant, you can be any position after 20 games and it has no impact on the outcome
out of interest who were the top three after 20 games last season and where did they end up?
|
|
|
Post by Antonio Fargas on Oct 11, 2021 15:23:03 GMT
the point is that its all irrelevant, you can be any position after 20 games and it has no impact on the outcome out of interest who were the top three after 20 games last season and where did they end up? 5th 6th and 10th
|
|