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Post by Centenary Gas on Apr 27, 2015 16:01:36 GMT
Keep your phones at the ready if you're going to the game, given the number of away fans in the home ends and the expected lively atmosphere, these tossers should be accountable for any more of this...   |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 16:03:49 GMT
What had the guy who is being held done? Anyone know the facts?
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Post by Centenary Gas on Apr 27, 2015 16:06:10 GMT
Refused to hand over his inflatable football
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Post by RD on Apr 27, 2015 16:10:06 GMT
They'd be absolutely crazy to attempt that heavy handed approach towards our supporters given the numbers we'll have there - it would be complete and utter suicide.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 16:18:27 GMT
Refused to hand over his inflatable football Were you there then mate? Genuine question. |
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Post by Centenary Gas on Apr 27, 2015 16:23:19 GMT
Refused to hand over his inflatable football Were you there then mate? Genuine question. Nope, but this was reported after.. Mr Winship, from Ulceby, had told the Grimsby Telegraph he took the inflatable ball to the match to inject a "bit of fun" into the game, and that he "couldn't breathe" as he was ejected.
A statement from Forest Green Rovers said: "The stewards' report states they asked the fan to deflate or handover the football because an inflatable could interfere with play if it got on to the pitch during the game and the fan refused.
"The stewards... made the decision to remove the fan from the ground.
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Post by pirateman on Apr 27, 2015 16:27:57 GMT
I have heard reports about FGR Stewards from somewhere other than Grimsby. Can't remember where or give a source unfortunately. Apparently they are a private sub contract firm not employed directly by the club.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 16:30:10 GMT
"There was no third-party evidence corroborating either side regarding this provocation."
All a bit inconclusive then.
The stewards have obviously justified their actions (with whatever the fan potentially said/did other than failing to hand over the inflatable) as I cant see anywhere that they were prosecuted for using unlawful force against the fan?
"Despite the incident, before leaving the stadium the fan and the stewards shook hands."
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Post by tumshie on Apr 27, 2015 16:37:31 GMT
"There was no third-party evidence corroborating either side regarding this provocation."All a bit inconclusive then. The stewards have obviously justified their actions (with whatever the fan potentially said/did other than failing to hand over the inflatable) as I cant see anywhere that they were prosecuted for using unlawful force against the fan?
"Despite the incident, before leaving the stadium the fan and the stewards shook hands."
Well pointed out Weezord. And please remember it doesn't matter what you think: If you're in the home end you shouldn't be there and stand every chance of being removed if spotted. So lets hope everyone behaves and the game goes without incident. |
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Post by Centenary Gas on Apr 27, 2015 16:43:58 GMT
"There was no third-party evidence corroborating either side regarding this provocation."All a bit inconclusive then. The stewards have obviously justified their actions (with whatever the fan potentially said/did other than failing to hand over the inflatable) as I cant see anywhere that they were prosecuted for using unlawful force against the fan?
"Despite the incident, before leaving the stadium the fan and the stewards shook hands."
Well pointed out Weezord. And please remember it doesn't matter what you think: If you're in the home end you shouldn't be there and stand every chance of being removed if spotted. So lets hope everyone behaves and the game goes without incident. The Grimsby fans might dispute how friendly the ending was, but I'll leave that to them if there are any reading this. It's a complete overreaction and far too heavy handed. Here is a blog post with an interesting post about whether excessive force was used toogoodtogodown.wordpress.com/2015/02/14/guest-blog-did-fgr-stewards-use-excessive-force-on-gtfc-fan/Quotes from the fan himself: ryan, who has followed Grimsby home and away since 1989, said: "I couldn't breathe - the headlock was full on.
"All I can remember is someone with their arm around my neck and everyone booing. I was shocked. I never expected anything like that.
"As we got out the ground my head was pushed against the wall where the turnstiles are. I wasn't struggling, I was just saying 'whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm all right.'
"At one point there were three stewards on top of me and I started to panic then. They calmed down a bit and they said the police were coming."
Bryan, a self-employed joiner, had travelled down to the match in Gloucestershire with the Grimsby Town away supporters club and had taken the ball inflatable down to inject some fun into the match.
He had previously taken the beach ball to a match in Lincoln and suffered no problems.
Bryan said: "I thought it would be good for the fans and the kids love it. I don't see why there was a problem.
"It wasn't going to hurt anyone. It's not a weapon of mass destruction.
"We just want fun in the game. Things like this put me off football.
After seeing Janelle, Bryan was then driven to the centre of Stroud, Gloucestershire, where he was kept until the match had finished.
Bryan hasn't yet decided whether to make an official complaint, but will not be returning to the ground again.
He said: "That's my first and only experience of the place.
"I know everyone is telling me to take it further but I'm not a person for hassle. The steward said I spat at him and went to head-butt him but I didn't.
"All they need to do is watch the CCTV. I just wouldn't give him my ball."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 16:53:32 GMT
Well pointed out Weezord. And please remember it doesn't matter what you think: If you're in the home end you shouldn't be there and stand every chance of being removed if spotted. So lets hope everyone behaves and the game goes without incident. The Grimsby fans might dispute how friendly the ending was, but I'll leave that to them if there are any reading this. It's a complete overreaction and far too heavy handed. Here is a blog post with an interesting post about whether excessive force was used toogoodtogodown.wordpress.com/2015/02/14/guest-blog-did-fgr-stewards-use-excessive-force-on-gtfc-fan/Quotes from the fan himself: ryan, who has followed Grimsby home and away since 1989, said: "I couldn't breathe - the headlock was full on.
"All I can remember is someone with their arm around my neck and everyone booing. I was shocked. I never expected anything like that.
"As we got out the ground my head was pushed against the wall where the turnstiles are. I wasn't struggling, I was just saying 'whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm all right.'
"At one point there were three stewards on top of me and I started to panic then. They calmed down a bit and they said the police were coming."
Bryan, a self-employed joiner, had travelled down to the match in Gloucestershire with the Grimsby Town away supporters club and had taken the ball inflatable down to inject some fun into the match.
He had previously taken the beach ball to a match in Lincoln and suffered no problems.
Bryan said: "I thought it would be good for the fans and the kids love it. I don't see why there was a problem.
"It wasn't going to hurt anyone. It's not a weapon of mass destruction.
"We just want fun in the game. Things like this put me off football.
After seeing Janelle, Bryan was then driven to the centre of Stroud, Gloucestershire, where he was kept until the match had finished.
Bryan hasn't yet decided whether to make an official complaint, but will not be returning to the ground again.
He said: "That's my first and only experience of the place.
"I know everyone is telling me to take it further but I'm not a person for hassle. The steward said I spat at him and went to head-butt him but I didn't.
"All they need to do is watch the CCTV. I just wouldn't give him my ball."
The important bit for me. |
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Post by Centenary Gas on Apr 27, 2015 16:54:54 GMT
The Grimsby fans might dispute how friendly the ending was, but I'll leave that to them if there are any reading this. It's a complete overreaction and far too heavy handed. Here is a blog post with an interesting post about whether excessive force was used toogoodtogodown.wordpress.com/2015/02/14/guest-blog-did-fgr-stewards-use-excessive-force-on-gtfc-fan/Quotes from the fan himself: ryan, who has followed Grimsby home and away since 1989, said: "I couldn't breathe - the headlock was full on.
"All I can remember is someone with their arm around my neck and everyone booing. I was shocked. I never expected anything like that.
"As we got out the ground my head was pushed against the wall where the turnstiles are. I wasn't struggling, I was just saying 'whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm all right.'
"At one point there were three stewards on top of me and I started to panic then. They calmed down a bit and they said the police were coming."
Bryan, a self-employed joiner, had travelled down to the match in Gloucestershire with the Grimsby Town away supporters club and had taken the ball inflatable down to inject some fun into the match.
He had previously taken the beach ball to a match in Lincoln and suffered no problems.
Bryan said: "I thought it would be good for the fans and the kids love it. I don't see why there was a problem.
"It wasn't going to hurt anyone. It's not a weapon of mass destruction.
"We just want fun in the game. Things like this put me off football.
After seeing Janelle, Bryan was then driven to the centre of Stroud, Gloucestershire, where he was kept until the match had finished.
Bryan hasn't yet decided whether to make an official complaint, but will not be returning to the ground again.
He said: "That's my first and only experience of the place.
"I know everyone is telling me to take it further but I'm not a person for hassle. The steward said I spat at him and went to head-butt him but I didn't.
"All they need to do is watch the CCTV. I just wouldn't give him my ball."
The important bit for me. Exactly the type of excuse they would use to cover their tracks. 'All they need to do is watch the CCTV', I'm sure if he had done either FGR would have been quick to highlight it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 17:01:35 GMT
The important bit for me. Exactly the type of excuse they would use to cover their tracks. 'All they need to do is watch the CCTV', I'm sure if he had done either FGR would have been quick to highlight it. Wouldnt have thought there was CCTV if as FGR state there was no evidence to corroborate either side. This could go on forever mate, I'm just trying to add a bit of balance to an opening post calling the FGR stewards tossers for their actions based on two pictures taken in a micro-second. |
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Post by Gas-Ed on Apr 27, 2015 17:01:59 GMT
The important bit for me. Exactly the type of excuse they would use to cover their tracks. 'All they need to do is watch the CCTV', I'm sure if he had done either FGR would have been quick to highlight it. When I was a student at Sheffield Hallam, I used to do a bit of stewarding at Sheff U. I saw, with my own eyes, a Rochdale supporter get headbutted by a steward on the concourse while being escorted out of the stadium. They all laughed about it and I never worked their again. |
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Post by long john silver on Apr 27, 2015 17:04:38 GMT
such a horrible little club. thugs for hire stewarding and cheer on murderers on the pitch. classy place
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Post by Centenary Gas on Apr 27, 2015 17:07:02 GMT
Exactly the type of excuse they would use to cover their tracks. 'All they need to do is watch the CCTV', I'm sure if he had done either FGR would have been quick to highlight it. Wouldnt have thought there was CCTV if as FGR state there was no evidence to corroborate either side. This could go on forever mate, I'm just trying to add a bit of balance to an opening post calling the FGR stewards tossers for their actions based on two pictures taken in a micro-second. Fair enough, and I'll make this my last post on it (obviously I should point out below is not written by me) I’m an avid twitter user and occasional fishy poster but I’m writing this guest blog anonymously through the gracious and award winning (has he ever mentioned that??) TooGoodToGoDown as I don’t want my profession broadcasting on social media. Whisper it quietly but I’m a police officer and have been for over a decade. Now the argument about if I should be ashamed or proud of that can be saved for another time and for another blog.
But, I do feel that it qualifies me to speak a little about what happened with the fan and the steward at Forest Green. Please, bear in mind that these views and observations have been made without the knowledge of my employers and I certainly don’t speak on their behalf. I am aware that I am not in possession of all the facts and the only information I have is that taken from the various internet reports and of course that now infamous picture.
In my decades experience I have had regular officer safety training, that training of course includes the use of various restraint techniques. Never have I been taught a headlock as a restraint technique or as a technique to move someone. Now, I appreciate that my training and that of a steward (or indeed doorman as apparently FGR stewards are) differs, probably considerably and perhaps I’m being a little egotistical but I believe that my training is probably beyond what is offered for those roles.
In my training I have been taught that in a situation where you are getting “hands on” then often as long as you are able to justify your actions and you use the appropriate decision making processes then you can use whatever restraint you feel comfortable with using, often due to the very nature of these incidents a hold will go on wrong or you’ll instinctively grab for whatever is closest at hand. This is usually fine. However, the caveat being that any use of force must be proportionate and it must be the very minimum amount.
The use of restraint techniques and holds should not be used in areas where they are likely to cause long term damage or where serious injury can occur. With that in mind the picture doesn’t look great for the stewards does it? There is no large scale disorder, there appears to be no small scale disorder.
There is the fan with the inflatable football. There was an argument about its presence in the ground and its use. That much is fact and is accepted by both parties. What happened during that argument is currently being debated.
But, with six stewards stood around, surely whatever the Grimsby fan was saying or doing could have been handled better? Was that steward really under any threat with five colleagues in close proximity? Again I must stress that I am not in possession of any more information. But, there must have been a better way to deal with the fan. The use of a headlock is shocking, it appears that the fan is being dragged out, he’s certainly lower than the steward, he is at a positional disadvantage being pulled back, and off balance. Is there any need to be continuing to be moving away with the lock still held?
I am in no way advocating the use of a headlock but understand that occasionally you grab the wrong part of the body, but, if you do then it needs immediately rectifying. One of his colleagues should have been placing the fan under a more appropriate hold. They don’t appear to be doing so.
The use of a headlock has the potential for very serious injuries, even death, the throat is a fragile area of the body and restricting someone’s airway could, very easily lead to life changing injuries or death. Are those actions proportionate for someone with an inflatable football? Are they even proportionate for someone who is being abusive as alleged by the stewards?
The FGR statement doesn’t add up either, the phrase “chest hold” doesn’t sit right with me either, I’ve never heard of a chest hold and restricting someone’s chest has only a marginally lower risk of serious injury than a headlock does. Either hold appears under the circumstances to be use of excessive force.
The picture from outside the ground is just as shocking, the fan, prone on the ground with three stewards kneeling on him. The picture is dark and I haven’t been able to confirm but to me it looks as though at least one of the stewards is placing pressure on this persons back. People have certainly died from this, from positional asphyxia. It is possible to suffocate someone purely under the weight of their own body. It is never advisable for someone to kneel on someone’s back, the consequences don’t bear thinking about. It really seems like the stewards are in the wrong. The initial enquiry from the club doesn’t seem to have gone into enough depth.
I hope that the fan involved is seeking to take this further, there should be a proper enquiry into this. At the very least some training issues need addressing with the stewards.
My advice would be to make the complaint. There certainly seems to be plenty of witnesses willing to provide evidence. The only way that this will be looked into further is with pressure placed upon the relevant people from the fan and those present. |
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Post by Gas4life!!! on Apr 27, 2015 17:25:32 GMT
Wouldnt have thought there was CCTV if as FGR state there was no evidence to corroborate either side. This could go on forever mate, I'm just trying to add a bit of balance to an opening post calling the FGR stewards tossers for their actions based on two pictures taken in a micro-second. Fair enough, and I'll make this my last post on it (obviously I should point out below is not written by me) I’m an avid twitter user and occasional fishy poster but I’m writing this guest blog anonymously through the gracious and award winning (has he ever mentioned that??) TooGoodToGoDown as I don’t want my profession broadcasting on social media. Whisper it quietly but I’m a police officer and have been for over a decade. Now the argument about if I should be ashamed or proud of that can be saved for another time and for another blog.
But, I do feel that it qualifies me to speak a little about what happened with the fan and the steward at Forest Green. Please, bear in mind that these views and observations have been made without the knowledge of my employers and I certainly don’t speak on their behalf. I am aware that I am not in possession of all the facts and the only information I have is that taken from the various internet reports and of course that now infamous picture.
In my decades experience I have had regular officer safety training, that training of course includes the use of various restraint techniques. Never have I been taught a headlock as a restraint technique or as a technique to move someone. Now, I appreciate that my training and that of a steward (or indeed doorman as apparently FGR stewards are) differs, probably considerably and perhaps I’m being a little egotistical but I believe that my training is probably beyond what is offered for those roles.
In my training I have been taught that in a situation where you are getting “hands on” then often as long as you are able to justify your actions and you use the appropriate decision making processes then you can use whatever restraint you feel comfortable with using, often due to the very nature of these incidents a hold will go on wrong or you’ll instinctively grab for whatever is closest at hand. This is usually fine. However, the caveat being that any use of force must be proportionate and it must be the very minimum amount.
The use of restraint techniques and holds should not be used in areas where they are likely to cause long term damage or where serious injury can occur. With that in mind the picture doesn’t look great for the stewards does it? There is no large scale disorder, there appears to be no small scale disorder.
There is the fan with the inflatable football. There was an argument about its presence in the ground and its use. That much is fact and is accepted by both parties. What happened during that argument is currently being debated.
But, with six stewards stood around, surely whatever the Grimsby fan was saying or doing could have been handled better? Was that steward really under any threat with five colleagues in close proximity? Again I must stress that I am not in possession of any more information. But, there must have been a better way to deal with the fan. The use of a headlock is shocking, it appears that the fan is being dragged out, he’s certainly lower than the steward, he is at a positional disadvantage being pulled back, and off balance. Is there any need to be continuing to be moving away with the lock still held?
I am in no way advocating the use of a headlock but understand that occasionally you grab the wrong part of the body, but, if you do then it needs immediately rectifying. One of his colleagues should have been placing the fan under a more appropriate hold. They don’t appear to be doing so.
The use of a headlock has the potential for very serious injuries, even death, the throat is a fragile area of the body and restricting someone’s airway could, very easily lead to life changing injuries or death. Are those actions proportionate for someone with an inflatable football? Are they even proportionate for someone who is being abusive as alleged by the stewards?
The FGR statement doesn’t add up either, the phrase “chest hold” doesn’t sit right with me either, I’ve never heard of a chest hold and restricting someone’s chest has only a marginally lower risk of serious injury than a headlock does. Either hold appears under the circumstances to be use of excessive force.
The picture from outside the ground is just as shocking, the fan, prone on the ground with three stewards kneeling on him. The picture is dark and I haven’t been able to confirm but to me it looks as though at least one of the stewards is placing pressure on this persons back. People have certainly died from this, from positional asphyxia. It is possible to suffocate someone purely under the weight of their own body. It is never advisable for someone to kneel on someone’s back, the consequences don’t bear thinking about. It really seems like the stewards are in the wrong. The initial enquiry from the club doesn’t seem to have gone into enough depth.
I hope that the fan involved is seeking to take this further, there should be a proper enquiry into this. At the very least some training issues need addressing with the stewards.
My advice would be to make the complaint. There certainly seems to be plenty of witnesses willing to provide evidence. The only way that this will be looked into further is with pressure placed upon the relevant people from the fan and those present.Confirmed tossers then |
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Post by ineedgas on Apr 27, 2015 17:38:20 GMT
Keep your phones at the ready if you're going to the game, given the number of away fans in the home ends and the expected lively atmosphere, these tossers should be accountable for any more of this... Looks like the one doing the head lock has eaten all the vegie pies and a few buckets of lentils so looks like we'll have to take are own grub Wednesday |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 17:44:43 GMT
Fair enough, and I'll make this my last post on it (obviously I should point out below is not written by me )Confirmed tossers then hmmm, big write-up from someone who admits they are not in possession of all the facts. But feel they need to comment at length about it on the internet advising people to make complaints. I just don't understand that. As I don't understand the OP. I'll stick to being open-minded about the incident for now ta and will not be keeping my phone 'at the ready' on Weds night. Thats all for me! |
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Apr 27, 2015 17:54:45 GMT
I'll stick to being open-minded about the incident .... Just, wow. |
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