The E.U Referrendum

There have been rumours. For example, it is a known fact that the postal voting system in the UK is open to abuse, yet neither Labour nor Tory have made any attempts to fix it.......is that because at some point they may feel they have 'some need' for the flawed system.

Whilst it was unexpected, the police, the electoral commission and (I assume) many, many journalists have had a year to look at this as so far there's not a shred of evidence in support of the claim....and given it was the postal ballot boxes that arrived to the count late, if those were going to be rigged you don't do it in the few hours after polling closes, you do it weeks in advance....

There was no need for any chicanery, to keep Farage from having a voice at Westminster.  The system itself did that.
UKIP got 12% of the vote in 2015, and ended up with 0.2% of the available seats.  Vote for PR.

A *ing classic. " Da da da    da da da   da da da....da....."
Far better than your old regimental song, " Billy, don`t be a hero."

Ok, so you weren`t Donkey Wallopers.   What did your lot use to do to donkeys, then?

Phew, I don't know if I can explain this well enough.
What is happening in Germany only confirms my belief that the UK should leave the EU. So what has been, and still is, happening.
The sex attacks in Köln on NYE sparked everything off. The news only broke in the main media four days later. This was because the Police, under government instruction, were not reporting migrant crime. In fact, on New Years day, the official Köln Police communication started that the night had passed off peacefully. The public news channels had the story, but decided not to report it on the news as like the Police, they were under instruction not to report migrant crime. The story only broke after it had received a lot of attention/reports/eye witness accounts on social media.
Details then started to emerge of sex attacks not only across the whole of Germany, but in Austria and Switzerland as well.

The very next week, there was a demonstration to show peoples feelings against the migrant crime, and it was met with the full force of the State. There were more riot Police present than demonstrators. Even Water Cannons were deployed, and used. The Police stood back and did nothing while the attacks were taking place, yet as soon as someone complained, they were labeled extreme right-wing bigots who deserved to be beaten by the Police. It was quite shocking.

The official government response was to work a deal with Facebook, so that anyone posting an anti-migrant posting would be reported by Facebook to the government. Many people have since been arrested for comments made on Facebook. The official line was not to deal with the migrant crime, but to act against people who made a comment against migrant crime! When you have government officials trawling the internet trying to find people who are making comments against the government policy, then you just know things are not good.

It is very difficult here to say anything against the migration policy. To be labeled a Nazi, or even an Extreme Right-Winger here means that you will lose your job. Many many people I speak to privately say one thing, but they will never ever air those views publicly. The fear of being called a Nazi is still very strong here.

AfD are growing because people feel that with the 'normal' parties they have no voice. The opposition to Merkel are bigger moon howlers than she is! AfD can be compared to UKIP, in that if the 'normal' political parties are not representing you, then you look elsewhere for a party that does. AfD are not 'right-wing extremists' as they are always called in the press, just as UKIP are not 'right-wing extremists'.

These are dangerous times throughout Europe. You cannot buy a can of pepper spray anywhere. My local gun club has had to stop taking on new members because they now have too many members. People are looking at ways they can defend themselves, because it appears as though the State has given up that role.

There was a poster doing the rounds last week, apparently issued by a 'Women welcome Migrants' socialist group. It basically said, "It's better to be raped for thirty seconds than be a racist all your life"........and that just about sums up the attitude of the vocal minority.

The migration issue is causing problems throughout German society. Let me give you a personal example.
My wife heads-up the Parents group for the local Kindergarten our son attends. The Kindergarten is facing budget cuts, which is unusual as Merkel promised a couple of years ago that there would be places in a Kindergarten for every child.
I'll try to explain. Normally, each child is funded, so let's call it 1.0 funding for each child. You have fifty children, you receive State funding for fifty children. This is changing. If a child comes from a 'normal German speaking family', then the funding is being cut to 0.7 per child. For ten children, you only get funding for seven. This is balanced out by children of Migrants. These children attract funding of 1.5 for each child, as it is deemed they need more attention due to language problems etc.

There is a major problem though. The Kindergarten is ran by the local Church, that is the local Christian Church. The Migrants in our area are Muslim. They will not send their children to a Christian Kindergarten. The result? Two members of staff have to go, and the amount of children is being cut from sixty to forty five.

This is replicated in the other Kindergarten's in the area, resulting in people unable to find a Kindergarten spot for their children......their German children. My understanding is that the same principle is being forced onto the schools as well.

My missus is/was one of Merkel's biggest fans, but this has got her spitting feathers!

I voted for the Referendum party in 1997, purely because I wanted a vote on this very issue.
The establishment don't want to give us this vote. Cameron went back on his 'cast iron' guarantee.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/nov/04/david-cameron-referendum-campaign-over

Let's face it, the only reason we are having this referendum is because the Tories were scared of losing votes to UKIP.
If there was no Nigel Farage (like him or not), there would be no referendum.

To me it is simple, do you want to be part of a single European (German dominated) ever expanding superstate, or do you want to be be part of a country that can runs it's own affairs and make it's own decisions?

I am so angry at how successive Governments have just signed our power and sovereignty away to the EU.
The scaremongers say that if we left, it will take 10 years to sort out. Why, when all we signed up for was a common market? Oh yeah, because our politicians have signed successive treaties, not giving us a say, dragging us deeper in to this undemocratic mess.
The principle of the EU is 'ever closer union' and history tells us that nothing will be allowed to derail that, regardless of whether Europe's citizens want it or not. Denmark were made to vote twice on the Maastricht treaty and Ireland twice on the Lisbon Treaty, both times because the first referendums didn't go the EU's way. No should mean no! The amount of money and scaremongering behind the yes vote in Ireland eventually led to them being bullied and accepting it.

Let's not kid ourselves that our own referendum will be a fair vote.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/29/q-and-a-row-ministerial-access-to-eu-papers-brexit

It's not as if we can trust the BBC to be impartial.

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/9055183/BBC-admits-receiving-millions-in-grants-from-EU-and-councils.html

One of our local MPs said it was a narrow decision, but he backs the remain campaign. Nothing to do with the life peerage Cameron gave to your wife then?!

And what a farce Cameron's negotiations were! Saying he'd rule nothing out if he didn't get what the UK was after, and that he could even campaign to leave. What idiot was ever taken in by that? He was always going to campaign to stay in, the whole thing is just a charade. It really is unbelievable that the British Prime Minister wants to stop paying Child Benefit to children outside of the UK, but does not have the power to enact that decision, leaving him begging that other 27 EU leaders. The man is incapable of getting a good deal for this country. He was persuaded to change it so that only new claims are affected, and even then that we will still have to pay for these kids, but at the local rate of Child Benefit. 28 different rates of Child Benefit. How much will that cost to administer? It's easier just to keep it as it is. But the very fact that the PM does not have the power to stop payments like this is reason alone to leave.

Anyone remember that bill we got from Brussels, due to our economy performing well (they included the illegal drugs and sex trade in the calculations just to bump up our bill even more). The real cheek is that France and Germany got rebates.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29751124

Of course, he made all the right noises and protested, then quietly paid it when the fuss had died down.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3237073/Cameron-Osborne-quietly-pay-1-7BILLION-bill-Brussels-dismisses-totally-unacceptable.html

We are being bled dry by Brussels. It is a disgrace how these people have so much power over us. Does anyone remember voting for Donald Tusk? Baroness Ashton? Romano Prodi? Van Rompoy? Martin Schulz? Jean-Claude Juncker? Where is the democracy? The whole organisation is more corrupt than FIFA.

I see that latest scare story is that France won't let the UK have the border at Calais, meaning that there will be nothing to stop the migrants getting through to Dover. I understand the haulage companies are fined a substantial (£10k I think) amount per migrant found in their lorry once they reach the UK. Well, one option could be to fine P and O, DFDS and other ferry companies in a similar way. Another option could be to check the cars and lorries during the crossing. Another option could be to beef up border controls at Dover and other ports and not let anyone through until we are satisfied they should be here. Or we could just tell Calais to do one, and move our business to Ostend. We could work closely with the Belgian authorities to ensure another Jungle doesn't happen ie remove people immediately and don't let them set up camp, and deport them if necessary (if that's what the Belgain authorities want). The ferry unions in Calais have so much power and they won't like their livelihoods being taken away, but I don't see why the French should bully us. They only want us to stay in as we put in a hell of a lot more than we get out.

There will be uncertainty and the value of the Pound will fall, that always happens when there is uncertainty. But in the long run we are better off out of it.
The EU gave Turkey £3 billion (I wonder how much of that was UK taxpayers money and how much of it was Lithuanian, Slovenian, Portuguese, Greek) to control their border and stop people crossing to the Greek islands. I watched Simon Reeve in Greece a few weeks ago and boats were coming across in broad daylight. The Turks weren't stopping them leaving and the Greeks were just pushing the problem on.

I don't want to be part of a political union which is ever expanding eastwards, antagonising Russia. 

Angela Merkel (who put her in charge) said all migrants are welcome, but she didn't set up processing centres in Turkey or other countries near Syria, instead her words encouraged more people to pay people traffickers and make the dangerous journey in ill equipped boats, leading to more deaths. She has blood on her hands.

Remain campaigners say that the NHS will collapse if we stop immigration. What they don't seem to understand is that NOBODY is saying we should stop immigration. We should simply have control over who we let in and who we don't. We don't have that at the moment.

I was in Ikea the other day and it was packed. They must make a pretty penny. There is no way they will up sticks and leave the UK if we vote out. Just like Lidl and Aldi won't. I wish EDF and EON would though! The EU countries need us every bit as much as we need them.

Another scare story is that British citizens won't be able to work in Europe if we leave. Well my Dad worked in Germany for a few years in the early 60s. This was without the EU and less than 20 years after the war, so if it could be done then it could be done now. My parents also lived in Germany again in the early 70s, before the freedom of movement came in.

Sadly I think we will end up staying in and that will be a disaster for this country.
If we do vote out, I will buy the biggest bottle of French champagne I can find as I'm sure they'd still want to sell it to us.

I feel I have to pick you up on a few points....I agree with most of your post but...

Cameron gave a 'cast iron' guarantee to give a referendum on ratifying a treaty treaty that the Labour Government then ratified through our Parliament in 2008...so in 2009 it became EU law and there was no way back...

In 2008 the Conservatives lost a vote on their proposal to put the treaty to a referendum - something opposed by Labour and Lib Dems who said the treaty "does not have constitutional implications".... which was correct except for all the massive constitutional implications it had...

If there were no Tory backbenchers there would be no referendum....it's a subtle differentiation, but it's easy to argue Farage would have more sway in this referendum if he'd stayed with the Tories rather than leaving in 1993 (and by this I mean a man of his skill and political ability could have achieved all he has done under the Tory banner and really put the cat amongst the pigeons from as a senior member from inside the party)


Woah! If this was a corruption contest in the knockout rounds of a tournament it would be a no score draw. The gravy-trains are equal, just the size of the budgets and the number of sucklers is larger....

Finally the thing I agree with most....but you, Cameron, the rest of the EU and probably most of the UK voters have run right past the main point. Firstly there are no refugees in Calais. Refugees are required to register in the first EU state they arrive in. However as the 'crisis' as escalated, the EU has basically been helping economic migrants move through Italy, Greece, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania as for some reason no refugees can find refuge (or be bothered to) register in any of these states....no idea how they end up in Calais (well I do but for some reason I get called all kinds of names under the sun when I suggest reasons...)