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Post by chippenhamgas on Dec 20, 2016 22:09:29 GMT
Before we start dreaming of the Championship and beyond we need to stabilize in Div 1 in my view and at the moment I am not sure our squad is anywhere near guaranteeing a place in this division next season, what DC does in January and how Wael backs him will be vital on that score. Absolutely, we need to focus on 52 points, i think the boxing day match is absolutely crucial, win and we're on 33 points and will put some serious daylight between us and coventry. I hope a semi decent xmas return won't blinker us into thinking quality additions aren't needed.
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Post by aghast on Dec 20, 2016 22:40:12 GMT
I'm not sure about this progress or die mindset.
Most clubs fail to do well. That is why there are just 20 in the Premier League and maybe 10 in the Championship with a chance of becoming big.
All the rest aspire to be better than they have been. Not playing Arsenal at home in a new 40,000 capacity stadium, but perhaps holding their own in the division above where they have historically been, and maybe even better.
We're no different from all the rest of the small to medium clubs like Rotherham, Millwall, Swindon or Peterborough, who all aim to get to the Championship and stay safe there.
We played in League 1 and occasionally rose into the Championship for most of our history until 2001 when it all started to go bonkers. Now we are back to square one in historical terms.
A nice 22,000 stadium will help us if we reach the Championship, but anything more ambitious than that will require squillions in cash. And many other clubs have many millions ready to spend.
This is a long term project if it is to be sustainable.
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 21, 2016 9:20:11 GMT
It's all great and good to say 'remember where we were two years ago' So what? It counts for nothing now. If we go down this season, the last two years won't be flitting before my eyes. To create a great football club is all about evolution, just as Al Qadi said, and reiterated by Steve Hamer. If you are happy with where we are, bully for you. I'm not. I've seen all this before. We have spent most of our history at this level. Is that what makes you happy? Well not me. This club has to keep on progressing or it will stagnate and die. I've seen enough crap thank you very much to last a lifetime. I hear some of you say ' I just want us to beat the sh** in the championship'. Yeah, that would make me happy for a few days, but that's it. Also, ' I want us to finish above the sh** in the championship'. That would make me happy for a few months. What the f**k. I want to be happy for years on end. I want the Premier League. If Swansea, Bournemouth, Wigan etc can do it, I'm bloody sure we can. That's why DC said not so long ago that he wanted the championship in three years. He turned down the chance to manage Leeds. Alright we all know that club is a basket case. But it was still a high profile well paid job. That told me that our owners had the ambition here to make him turn that job down, and it would be great if MT also had the same ambition. If he doesn't so what. There are other strikers out there. The point is that the Premier League has to be the target. Anything less is a total lack of ambition. It will take time, and we are all getting older, but it has to be the target. It looks like the training ground is settled. Now the UWE has to be assured or it's all for nowt. Of course, but that doesn't mean that every single month should be better than the previous month, or even every single season will be better than the previous season. In football, as in most small businesses tbh, trends are measured over years, not weeks. There will be ups and downs, that's football, but look at the big picture.
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Post by LJG on Dec 21, 2016 9:30:12 GMT
It's all great and good to say 'remember where we were two years ago' So what? It counts for nothing now. If we go down this season, the last two years won't be flitting before my eyes. To create a great football club is all about evolution, just as Al Qadi said, and reiterated by Steve Hamer. If you are happy with where we are, bully for you. I'm not. I've seen all this before. We have spent most of our history at this level. Is that what makes you happy? Well not me. This club has to keep on progressing or it will stagnate and die. I've seen enough crap thank you very much to last a lifetime. I hear some of you say ' I just want us to beat the sh** in the championship'. Yeah, that would make me happy for a few days, but that's it. Also, ' I want us to finish above the sh** in the championship'. That would make me happy for a few months. What the f**k. I want to be happy for years on end. I want the Premier League. If Swansea, Bournemouth, Wigan etc can do it, I'm bloody sure we can. That's why DC said not so long ago that he wanted the championship in three years. He turned down the chance to manage Leeds. Alright we all know that club is a basket case. But it was still a high profile well paid job. That told me that our owners had the ambition here to make him turn that job down, and it would be great if MT also had the same ambition. If he doesn't so what. There are other strikers out there. The point is that the Premier League has to be the target. Anything less is a total lack of ambition. It will take time, and we are all getting older, but it has to be the target. It looks like the training ground is settled. Now the UWE has to be assured or it's all for nowt. If there's one thing I DO NOT want for the club it's the Premier league. Being part of the money machine will mean the club is dead anyway regardless of whether there are blue and white quarters running around the pitch on a Saturday afternoon, or Friday night or Monday night or Sunday morning or whenever Sky decide we have to go and watch a game of football.
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 21, 2016 10:10:12 GMT
gasincider . I really don't like the thought of us in the prem. soulless and sold itself out. I hate the prem I know this isn't really Rovers related but a few posters have mentioned the PL. I am a ST holder at Bournemouth having lived here for nearly 40 years and go with my son who grew up supporting local team. I get to about 15-20 Rovers games a year, home and away. I am a true neutral as with Rovers history against Bournemouth I really can't bring myself to support them. But I love football and it's local so I go. Now theyre in the PL ticket prices have soared, fans now expect a lot more and moan if they are not winning after 20 minutes. Last week against Saints fans were having a go after they had beaten Liverpool and Leicester, incredible. I've sat with the same people for 20 years and they know I'm a Rovers fan and have taken the p*** for the last 5 years buts that's ok, I've put up with that for 50 years! My point is now there're in the PL most of their fans will have forgotten where they've come from and will disappear when they go back down, leaving the core 5,000. A few people I knew who went can't go now because it's too costly. But my biggest gripe about watching them is that I love my Saturday football and they change dates and times so that this season I think we have only about 9/10 home matches on a Saturday. The only good thing is it allows me to get to the Mem if there was going to be a clash! So it would be great to get there, but be under no illusion, if we did the whole nature of the club would change, some fans would be priced out and Rovers as a club would be different. Now it's a business not a community football club and it's about making money. But that, I guess, would be progress! UTG!
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Post by gasincider on Dec 21, 2016 10:15:38 GMT
If there's one thing I DO NOT want for the club it's the Premier league. Being part of the money machine will mean the club is dead anyway regardless of whether there are blue and white quarters running around the pitch on a Saturday afternoon, or Friday night or Monday night or Sunday morning or whenever Sky decide we have to go and watch a game of football. So if we are needing a point to get to the Premier League with one home game to go, you want us to lose, and you won't be there, and you won't go to the playoffs either? You couldnt make it up. As for the balance of your argument, isn't it better to be sat at the top table to bring about change , and not just wringing your hands? Not to mention that when you get there you do not have to sell your players for massively undercut prices.
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Post by LJG on Dec 21, 2016 11:08:17 GMT
If there's one thing I DO NOT want for the club it's the Premier league. Being part of the money machine will mean the club is dead anyway regardless of whether there are blue and white quarters running around the pitch on a Saturday afternoon, or Friday night or Monday night or Sunday morning or whenever Sky decide we have to go and watch a game of football. So if we are needing a point to get to the Premier League with one home game to go, you want us to lose, and you won't be there, and you won't go to the playoffs either? You couldnt make it up. As for the balance of your argument, isn't it better to be sat at the top table to bring about change , and not just wringing your hands? Not to mention that when you get there you do not have to sell your players for massively undercut prices. Ignoring the adversarial tone of your post: Of course I will never stop supporting Rovers in whatever league or non-league that are in but that isn't what is said is it? The chap above who is the Bournemouth supporter has basically validated my point - the Premier league changes the club because A) TV rights mean that your personal rituals of Saturday afternoons at 3 o'clock are broken and B) the expectations of supporters both long standing and new alter. As to your point about "changing it from the top" - how much influence do you really believe Southampton or Bournemouth or West Ham or West Brom or Blackpool have or have had?
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 21, 2016 11:49:58 GMT
If there's one thing I DO NOT want for the club it's the Premier league. Being part of the money machine will mean the club is dead anyway regardless of whether there are blue and white quarters running around the pitch on a Saturday afternoon, or Friday night or Monday night or Sunday morning or whenever Sky decide we have to go and watch a game of football. So if we are needing a point to get to the Premier League with one home game to go, you want us to lose, and you won't be there, and you won't go to the playoffs either? You couldnt make it up. As for the balance of your argument, isn't it better to be sat at the top table to bring about change , and not just wringing your hands? Not to mention that when you get there you do not have to sell your players for massively undercut prices. so assuming from your previous post that you want rovers to get to the "promised lane" of the premiership. What happens then ? you want to rule Europe as well ? Thats the sort of rubbish our friends spout about "europe in 5 years they said..." and yes if we ever get to the "Promised Lane" i will never set foot in the ground whilst in that fabled place
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Post by Gas_Quarters on Dec 21, 2016 11:59:06 GMT
So if we are needing a point to get to the Premier League with one home game to go, you want us to lose, and you won't be there, and you won't go to the playoffs either? You couldnt make it up. As for the balance of your argument, isn't it better to be sat at the top table to bring about change , and not just wringing your hands? Not to mention that when you get there you do not have to sell your players for massively undercut prices. so assuming from your previous post that you want rovers to get to the "promised lane" of the premiership. What happens then ? you want to rule Europe as well ? Thats the sort of rubbish our friends spout about "europe in 5 years they said..." and yes if we ever get to the "Promised Lane" i will never set foot in the ground whilst in that fabled place Whilst I understand the reasons for not wanting to play in the premier league, it is hard not to want the club you support to succeed. Surely the aim is to achieve success and work your way to the top. If we were to play in the championship then would you want the team to be relegated or would you just want to settle for mid-table mediocrity every year? Because the latter sounds pretty boring to me. UTG!
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Post by gasincider on Dec 21, 2016 12:23:54 GMT
Ignoring the adversarial tone of your post: Of course I will never stop supporting Rovers in whatever league or non-league that are in but that isn't what is said is it? The chap above who is the Bournemouth supporter has basically validated my point - the Premier league changes the club because A) TV rights mean that your personal rituals of Saturday afternoons at 3 o'clock are broken and B) the expectations of supporters both long standing and new alter. As to your point about "changing it from the top" - how much influence do you really believe Southampton or Bournemouth or West Ham or West Brom or Blackpool have or have had? So asking a question is adversarial is it? Oh dear. The chap from Bournemouth gave his view point, not the viewpoint of every other football fan. Your right to football at 3pm on Saturdays is also at risk in the championship, but I assume you would want to get there. Of course expectations change the higher up you go. You know the club will get paid thousands for being on TV. I don't remember any complaints on here when we were all hoping our cup ties would be on TV. With regard to your final point, Saints, Bournemouth, West Ham, West Brom and Blackpool all had the same voting rights as Arsenal Man C, Man U, Liverpool, and Chelsea. If they all decide that they are happy to take the money in exchange for fixture inconvenience, fair enough, it's a democracy. Then it's up to individual fans to decide to accept the inconvenience or if they can afford to go on attending. The issue of cost is up to each club. That's nothing to do with TV. I don't think there would be any shortage of people willing to fill the UWE or elsewhere if the time came. But at least you would be able to watch it on TV.
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Post by gasincider on Dec 21, 2016 12:29:55 GMT
so assuming from your previous post that you want rovers to get to the "promised lane" of the premiership. What happens then ? you want to rule Europe as well ? Thats the sort of rubbish our friends spout about "europe in 5 years they said..." and yes if we ever get to the "Promised Lane" i will never set foot in the ground whilst in that fabled place Yes, and I want to be King of Britain. Actually I'd settle for Premier League mediocrity. Wouldn't you? I bet WBA fans are pretty happy with their lot. Mind you, I wonder if any Leicester fans said the same Henbury? As for your last point, I'm sure someone would gratefully take up your seat. Nothing like cutting your nose off to spite your face 🏁😇
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Post by wiaww on Dec 21, 2016 12:30:18 GMT
It's all great and good to say 'remember where we were two years ago' So what? It counts for nothing now. If we go down this season, the last two years won't be flitting before my eyes. To create a great football club is all about evolution, just as Al Qadi said, and reiterated by Steve Hamer. If you are happy with where we are, bully for you. I'm not. I've seen all this before. We have spent most of our history at this level. Is that what makes you happy? Well not me. This club has to keep on progressing or it will stagnate and die. I've seen enough crap thank you very much to last a lifetime. I hear some of you say ' I just want us to beat the sh** in the championship'. Yeah, that would make me happy for a few days, but that's it. Also, ' I want us to finish above the sh** in the championship'. That would make me happy for a few months. What the f**k. I want to be happy for years on end. I want the Premier League. If Swansea, Bournemouth, Wigan etc can do it, I'm bloody sure we can. That's why DC said not so long ago that he wanted the championship in three years. He turned down the chance to manage Leeds. Alright we all know that club is a basket case. But it was still a high profile well paid job. That told me that our owners had the ambition here to make him turn that job down, and it would be great if MT also had the same ambition. If he doesn't so what. There are other strikers out there. The point is that the Premier League has to be the target. Anything less is a total lack of ambition. It will take time, and we are all getting older, but it has to be the target. It looks like the training ground is settled. Now the UWE has to be assured or it's all for nowt. Of course it counts for something now because two seasons ago we were there and now we’re here. That is the definition of progress. If we go down this season, if we go up this season, if we finish midtable if, if, if. The facts are we are 11th in League One with five points between us and the play-offs, so yes, I am happy with where we are, and yes, bully for me. But does that mean I don’t want us to progress? Of course not. I want to see Bristol Rovers at the highest level possible but I’m trying to be realistic about how that can be achieved. Like you say, we have been at this level for most of our history, so is it fair to expect Darrell Clarke, the current squad, Wael Al-Qadi, Steve Hamer - or anyone else for that matter - to be able to change that over half a season? Of course it isn’t. We are still on an upward trajectory and yes we’ve hit a (decent sized) bump in the road but that doesn’t mean the wheels have fallen off. As said by someone previously, trends need to be measured over years and there will be ups and downs but that’s part of evolution. Sometimes things don’t work and so you roll back to a previous incarnation and try something slightly different and if that works you carry it forward and adapt from there. Everyone bought in to this “evolution not revolution” idea but now that we’ve hit a snag people it sounds to me like actually a lot of people would like some revolution. Perhaps Premier League has to be the target, perhaps it doesn’t, it all depends on the individual but as far as I’m aware each and every one of us would like to see Rovers in the Championship and the vast majority of us are happy that DC has a three year plan to get us there. As far as I’m concerned, if you step back and look at the bigger picture, I don’t see how we’re not still on target for that, do you?
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Post by gasincider on Dec 21, 2016 12:32:36 GMT
Oops.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 21, 2016 12:33:38 GMT
so assuming from your previous post that you want rovers to get to the "promised lane" of the premiership. What happens then ? you want to rule Europe as well ? Thats the sort of rubbish our friends spout about "europe in 5 years they said..." and yes if we ever get to the "Promised Lane" i will never set foot in the ground whilst in that fabled place Yes, and I want to be King of Britain. Actually I'd settle for Premier League mediocrity. Wouldn't you? I bet WBA fans are pretty happy with their lot. Mind you, I wonder if any Leicester fans said the same Henbury? As for your last point, I'm sure someone would gratefully take up your seat. Nothing like cutting your nose off to spite your face 🏁😇 they would welcome to it, because i will be long gone before we get to that level PS i leave them my Zimmer as well if you want
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Post by gasincider on Dec 21, 2016 12:34:24 GMT
Of course it counts for something now because two seasons ago we were there and now we’re here. That is the definition of progress. If we go down this season, if we go up this season, if we finish midtable if, if, if. The facts are we are 11th in League One with five points between us and the play-offs, so yes, I am happy with where we are, and yes, bully for me. But does that mean I don’t want us to progress? Of course not. I want to see Bristol Rovers at the highest level possible but I’m trying to be realistic about how that can be achieved. Like you say, we have been at this level for most of our history, so is it fair to expect Darrell Clarke, the current squad, Wael Al-Qadi, Steve Hamer - or anyone else for that matter - to be able to change that over half a season? Of course it isn’t. We are still on an upward trajectory and yes we’ve hit a (decent sized) bump in the road but that doesn’t mean the wheels have fallen off. As said by someone previously, trends need to be measured over years and there will be ups and downs but that’s part of evolution. Sometimes things don’t work and so you roll back to a previous incarnation and try something slightly different and if that works you carry it forward and adapt from there. Everyone bought in to this “evolution not revolution” idea but now that we’ve hit a snag people it sounds to me like actually a lot of people would like some revolution. Perhaps Premier League has to be the target, perhaps it doesn’t, it all depends on the individual but as far as I’m aware each and every one of us would like to see Rovers in the Championship and the vast majority of us are happy that DC has a three year plan to get us there. As far as I’m concerned, if you step back and look at the bigger picture, I don’t see how we’re not still on target for that, do you? Don't see anything there that disagrees with what I wrote. I agree with all of it. Other than the bit about it counts for nowt. Our recent success is now history, albeit a glorious bit of it. Enjoy the memories, but now move on. It won't sell tickets for the next game.
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Post by gasincider on Dec 21, 2016 12:35:37 GMT
Yes, and I want to be King of Britain. Actually I'd settle for Premier League mediocrity. Wouldn't you? I bet WBA fans are pretty happy with their lot. Mind you, I wonder if any Leicester fans said the same Henbury? As for your last point, I'm sure someone would gratefully take up your seat. Nothing like cutting your nose off to spite your face 🏁😇 they would welcome to it, because i will be long gone before we get to that level PS i leave them my Zimmer as well if you want I'm sure you could do better than that Henbury.
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Post by philbemmygas on Dec 21, 2016 12:37:02 GMT
I am no great supporter of LJG after previous experiences; however I totally understand his viewpoint on this matter. The Premiersh*t and it's ally is the worst single thing to hit football in this country since the formation of FIFA (don't get me started on those mongrels).
The game has been polluted by this competition; clubs opting out of the FA cup to make more dollar from a non-sensical competition. Trying to form breakaway leagues and block promotion and more importantly relegation to their own self important league; f/ck you jack were alright pah - splitters
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Post by gasincider on Dec 21, 2016 12:42:49 GMT
I am no great supporter of LJG after previous experiences; however I totally understand his viewpoint on this matter. The Premiersh*t and it's ally is the worst single thing to hit football in this country since the formation of FIFA (don't get me started on those mongrels). The game has been polluted by this competition; clubs opting out of the FA cup to make more dollar from a non-sensical competition. Trying to form breakaway leagues and block promotion and more importantly relegation to their own self important league; f/ck you jack were alright pah - splitters Wouldn't disagree with what you say Phil. In fact I totally agree with you. But it's better to be in the tent watering out than outside watering in.
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Post by LJG on Dec 21, 2016 12:43:15 GMT
Ignoring the adversarial tone of your post: Of course I will never stop supporting Rovers in whatever league or non-league that are in but that isn't what is said is it? The chap above who is the Bournemouth supporter has basically validated my point - the Premier league changes the club because A) TV rights mean that your personal rituals of Saturday afternoons at 3 o'clock are broken and B) the expectations of supporters both long standing and new alter. As to your point about "changing it from the top" - how much influence do you really believe Southampton or Bournemouth or West Ham or West Brom or Blackpool have or have had? So asking a question is adversarial is it? Oh dear. The chap from Bournemouth gave his view point, not the viewpoint of every other football fan. Your right to football at 3pm on Saturdays is also at risk in the championship, but I assume you would want to get there. Of course expectations change the higher up you go. You know the club will get paid thousands for being on TV. I don't remember any complaints on here when we were all hoping our cup ties would be on TV. With regard to your final point, Saints, Bournemouth, West Ham, West Brom and Blackpool all had the same voting rights as Arsenal Man C, Man U, Liverpool, and Chelsea. If they all decide that they are happy to take the money in exchange for fixture inconvenience, fair enough, it's a democracy. Then it's up to individual fans to decide to accept the inconvenience or if they can afford to go on attending. The issue of cost is up to each club. That's nothing to do with TV. I don't think there would be any shortage of people willing to fill the UWE or elsewhere if the time came. But at least you would be able to watch it on TV. Asking questions isn't adversarial, no but saying things like "you couldn't make it up" is rather. You assume wrongly about my thoughts on the Championship - that is just a new playground to be bullied in by Premier league parachute payments. If you believe that the fact those clubs have a vote means that they have influence you must consequently think your bin man has the same influence as Sir Phillip Green, Lord Alan Sugar or Lord Michael Ashcroft.
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Post by LJG on Dec 21, 2016 12:50:16 GMT
I am no great supporter of LJG after previous experiences; however I totally understand his viewpoint on this matter. The Premiersh*t and it's ally is the worst single thing to hit football in this country since the formation of FIFA (don't get me started on those mongrels). The game has been polluted by this competition; clubs opting out of the FA cup to make more dollar from a non-sensical competition. Trying to form breakaway leagues and block promotion and more importantly relegation to their own self important league; f/ck you jack were alright pah - splitters I apologise for any previous upset or offence to you. I don't want a reputation as ill-spirited on here.
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