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Post by I Voted For Kodos on Apr 19, 2017 13:07:29 GMT
Nick Higgs was responsible for our eventual relegation. He should have backed Penny when he attempted to change the culture of players at the club. A mistake he did not repeat when he decided to back DC when he did the same thing following relegation. While I believe JW would have kept us up, I don't blame DC for taking us down.
I do not think the club culture would have changed had we not been relegated. I think a lot of things we did not want to face were forced on us. Contracts, the sense of entitlement, failure to look at players on the way up, not Billy big bollox looking for a pay day. It also galvanized and united the fan base massively which again played a big part in our success. Finally, winning becomes a habit. Clearly, facing a lower quality of opposition week in week out also helps build momentum and allows the team to gain confidence. I think relegation was the making of the club. Came to this thread late but I agree totally with that sentiment. The season before in the last few months under McGhee we were worse than we were in the season we went down imo, without the final day. Ward saved us that season to such an extent that in early/mid March some were talking about a late play off charge that finished at Bradford with a 1-4 defeat. Despite that 13/14 season I will always respect John Ward but wish he had done something when it was so obvious about our totally c*** attack. The Eliot Richards / Alan Gow situation just about summed up the whole season. That the back 5, apart from Michael Smith, was more or less the same group that went down, got promoted, got promoted shows that John Ward got some things right. You and 2nd May sum up the situation really well Hugo. I've always thought that had we avoided relegation then DC would still have done what he did, have a massive clear out and perhaps have been as successful only a bit earlier but you may well be right about the relegation forcing a change in the culture at the club. And whatever anyone says now, the past three years have been great and DC deserves all the credit he receives. Regarding where the fault lies I'm not sure you can say with certainty. The board have to take the major share in that we had years of little planning, no investment and poor recruitment both player and manager. Ward was one of the better choices imo. But in the back end of 2014 circumstances went totally against us, Eliot Richards going on loan with no call back, JJOT going public, team spirit then dropping below the scale, the injury to Michael Smith at Pompey and Lee B just before the Mansfield match all conspired against us. Had JW stayed I think we would have limped over the line but I don't blame DC but I bet he might have done things a bit differently with hindsight but it doesn't matter now. But I also subscribe to the saying sh** happens and you just get on with it and it certainly did on that Mansfield afternoon. UTG! I feel this is the key part of any argument over whether JW would have kept us up. Injuries to Gow, Woodards, Smith and Brown (plus maybe Brunt and Gillespie?) and Norburn leaving by mutual consent were crucial and unrelated to DC being manager. Would JW have taken us down with those injuries? Would DC have kept us up without those injuries? Both questions are impossible to answer, but I've always thought we would have stayed up if Smith and Brown had played the Mansfield game.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 13:18:54 GMT
Feel odd about saying it, but I think promotion again this season would mean bad news. We're not ready. Nowhere near ready. Our budget wouldn't cope, the Mem wouldn't cope, not sure the inevitable results and instant relegation our fan base would cope (before anyone chips in with our following after relegation to the conference, that's different). Let the wheels turn regarding the entire club rebuild, look back on a fantastic season, regroup, restructure, go again next season, better, stronger and ready. Kind of agree but I still want it on principle. Remember how difficult this league was to get out of for god knows how long.....might be worth going for it as chances don't come often.That said, thinking of DC's comments about the Trollope era, I have just remembered what happened the last time the owners "went for it" under Holloway - 15 years of bullshit no less. Exactly what ive been thinking, this league is already looking harder next season with Doncaster, Plymouth, Portsmouth and Rotherham confirmed, then possibly Luton, Wigan, Blackburn, Forest joining them. Fair bit of money knocking around there!!
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Post by knowall on Apr 19, 2017 14:30:26 GMT
Kind of agree but I still want it on principle. Remember how difficult this league was to get out of for god knows how long.....might be worth going for it as chances don't come often.That said, thinking of DC's comments about the Trollope era, I have just remembered what happened the last time the owners "went for it" under Holloway - 15 years of bullshit no less. Exactly what ive been thinking, this league is already looking harder next season with Doncaster, Plymouth, Portsmouth and Rotherham confirmed, then possibly Luton, Wigan, Blackburn, Forest joining them. Fair bit of money knocking around there!! Interesting that you think that - have you considered their accounts?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 14:40:51 GMT
Exactly what ive been thinking, this league is already looking harder next season with Doncaster, Plymouth, Portsmouth and Rotherham confirmed, then possibly Luton, Wigan, Blackburn, Forest joining them. Fair bit of money knocking around there!! Interesting that you think that - have you considered their accounts? That doesnt normally stop them. Do you think their budgets will be below ours?
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Post by countygroundhotel on Apr 19, 2017 14:55:04 GMT
Feel odd about saying it, but I think promotion again this season would mean bad news. We're not ready. Nowhere near ready. Our budget wouldn't cope, the Mem wouldn't cope, not sure the inevitable results and instant relegation our fan base would cope (before anyone chips in with our following after relegation to the conference, that's different). Let the wheels turn regarding the entire club rebuild, look back on a fantastic season, regroup, restructure, go again next season, better, stronger and ready. Possibly but Burton have a fair chance of staying up, they may have gone up with a better squad than us (though I wouldn't know their squad now or then, but is the Perelli stadium any better suited to the Championship than the Mem or will they really have a budget this season that we couldn't have had next season with TV money? It was always a big if even before Taylor left but nothing is impossible, just like it wasn't impossible to avoid relegation to the Conference
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Post by knowall on Apr 19, 2017 16:50:18 GMT
Interesting that you think that - have you considered their accounts? That doesnt normally stop them. Do you think their budgets will be below ours? Not relevant - ask Mr Lansdown what power budgets have - I think a good manager is more important
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 22:05:02 GMT
That doesnt normally stop them. Do you think their budgets will be below ours? Not relevant - ask Mr Lansdown what power budgets have - I think a good manager is more important Didnt Citys budget allow them to come in and take our best player? There is only so long a manager can unearth cheap gems, ask Ian Holloway. Take a look at the teams at the top of L1, all have pretty much bought their positions. Anyway, my post was about the teams coming into L1 being better than the ones leaving and I still stand by that.
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 19, 2017 23:10:01 GMT
Came to this thread late but I agree totally with that sentiment. The season before in the last few months under McGhee we were worse than we were in the season we went down imo, without the final day. Ward saved us that season to such an extent that in early/mid March some were talking about a late play off charge that finished at Bradford with a 1-4 defeat. Despite that 13/14 season I will always respect John Ward but wish he had done something when it was so obvious about our totally c*** attack. The Eliot Richards / Alan Gow situation just about summed up the whole season. That the back 5, apart from Michael Smith, was more or less the same group that went down, got promoted, got promoted shows that John Ward got some things right. You and 2nd May sum up the situation really well Hugo. I've always thought that had we avoided relegation then DC would still have done what he did, have a massive clear out and perhaps have been as successful only a bit earlier but you may well be right about the relegation forcing a change in the culture at the club. And whatever anyone says now, the past three years have been great and DC deserves all the credit he receives. Regarding where the fault lies I'm not sure you can say with certainty. The board have to take the major share in that we had years of little planning, no investment and poor recruitment both player and manager. Ward was one of the better choices imo. But in the back end of 2014 circumstances went totally against us, Eliot Richards going on loan with no call back, JJOT going public, team spirit then dropping below the scale, the injury to Michael Smith at Pompey and Lee B just before the Mansfield match all conspired against us. Had JW stayed I think we would have limped over the line but I don't blame DC but I bet he might have done things a bit differently with hindsight but it doesn't matter now. But I also subscribe to the saying sh** happens and you just get on with it and it certainly did on that Mansfield afternoon. UTG! I feel this is the key part of any argument over whether JW would have kept us up. Injuries to Gow, Woodards, Smith and Brown (plus maybe Brunt and Gillespie?) and Norburn leaving by mutual consent were crucial and unrelated to DC being manager. Would JW have taken us down with those injuries? Would DC have kept us up without those injuries? Both questions are impossible to answer, but I've always thought we would have stayed up if Smith and Brown had played the Mansfield game. Correct and well put. UTG!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 19:38:01 GMT
Can I just add that there are a million billion ways that anything can pan out. The only fact that exists is that DC took us down, but he got us promoted twice. There has been a lot of choice discussions on this thread, but the only thing that can be said is that. So although I don't blame DC for it in my heart, it must be said he was at the helm. You could quite rightly claim we were lucky to go up (we were in the conf playoff)......so if we are giving DC this, in a way we have to give him the relegation too. Whatever the road, I wouldn't trade those 2 years for anything. They were the best anyone can ask for as a Rovers fan and equal anything our supports have experienced, whatever age they may be....especially Wembley but ESPECIALLY Dagenham....and how fitting in retrospect that the Snake couldn't score. The spirits of the Mem would not allow an unworthy one the glory, and that moment was handed to the man, above all others, who proved his loyalty. It's funny how things pan out.
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