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Post by chippenhamgas on May 27, 2017 20:19:43 GMT
w That begs the question, why purchase our club in the first place, after all there hardly likely to make any money while we remain playing in one of the worst grounds in the entire football league. I personally have supported this club for over sixty years and as far as I am concerned the present owners deserve a little more of my patience, it's a pity some on here are not prepared to evdo the same No one has suggested that they had/have no intention of building a new ground. I'm sure they bought the club with best intentions but something IMO is clearly causing them big problems - few of us as yet know what these problems are or indeed if they can be overcome. I agree speculation has been rife but human nature prevails and there are real concerns by many of the fan base (not just the people on here with their opinions) but the fan base as a whole. When the club was taken over 16 months ago there was a real sense of optimism with just about everyone, the club would now start moving (at last) in the right direction with some really positive statements being made at the time of takeover. The last four months has been tedious with nothing positive (or indeed negative to be fair) coming out of the club and that will split the fan base with people's own thoughts being spoken. SH has gone on record and stated that a deal has to be completed with UWE by August - time is rapidly running out and people are understandably becoming nervous as many people believe that this is a sh&it or bust situation with no obvious (IMO) plan B. i have supported Bristol Rovers since 1953 - I was a member of the supporters club as a boy - I am a season ticket holder now and supported them religiously (apart from my playing days when I only got to see them when I could) as are my sons and grandchildren today. I've seen almost 30 managers come and go - hundreds of players and numerous BoD's but I'm still here as are many of my contempories. I am genuinely concerned about my club - not particularly about UWE - but I accept to move forward we need a new beginning in a new Stadium. There have been so many false dawns - I just hope this isn't the latest. I've lived with "patience" for well over sixty years but it's surely being stretched now - call me negative if you wish but it's the way I feel - I don't really need to be told to be patient any more. If this doesn't happen the momentum we have been building over the last couple of years will quickly go into reverse, can't see dc staying and crowds will be back down to 6k. On the other hand, we back dc in the market, uwe goes ahead and we could be top six league one next season with capacity crowds at the mem. Standing still isn't an option, it will either be forwards or backwards. Over to you wael.
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Post by xplosivgas on May 27, 2017 20:37:44 GMT
6 months ago I was extremely frustrated and impatient at the lack of stadium news or progress, but I've been worn down to the point of indifference.
We'll find out in a few months one way of another. But for an incoming new owner, never has there been a potential new stadium more perfectly teed up. If they manage to balls it up it will be --in my opinion-- a result of incompetence and/or personal greed over the club's wellbeing.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 20:42:43 GMT
6 months ago I was extremely frustrated and impatient at the lack of stadium news or progress, but I've been worn down to the point of indifference. We'll find out in a few months one way of another. But for an incoming new owner, never has there been a potential new stadium more perfectly teed up. If they manage to balls it up it will be --in my opinion-- a result of incompetence and/or personal greed over the club's wellbeing. Wow ...that's a tough call ! i think they will act in the very best interests of the club , if the deal that Higgs brokered with UWE is at best poor business and at worst was a fabrication to appease the fans and improve his credibility I would hope Wael and the family would want to improve on it and gain an upper hand in the dealings.
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Post by chippenhamgas on May 27, 2017 20:44:09 GMT
6 months ago I was extremely frustrated and impatient at the lack of stadium news or progress, but I've been worn down to the point of indifference. We'll find out in a few months one way of another. But for an incoming new owner, never has there been a potential new stadium more perfectly teed up. If they manage to balls it up it will be --in my opinion-- a result of incompetence and/or personal greed over the club's wellbeing. Bang on. Yes higgs left a dogs breakfast but he did leave behind planning on a site in a fantastic location. The years of work and struggle it will take to find another as good and then get planning don't bear thinking about.
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Post by chippenhamgas on May 27, 2017 20:45:18 GMT
6 months ago I was extremely frustrated and impatient at the lack of stadium news or progress, but I've been worn down to the point of indifference. We'll find out in a few months one way of another. But for an incoming new owner, never has there been a potential new stadium more perfectly teed up. If they manage to balls it up it will be --in my opinion-- a result of incompetence and/or personal greed over the club's wellbeing. Wow ...that's a tough call ! i think they will act in the very best interests of the club , if the deal that Higgs brokered with UWE is at best poor business and at worst was a fabrication to appease the fans and improve his credibility I would hope Wael and the family would want to improve on it and gain an upper hand in the dealings. You mean pay what the land is worth.
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Post by xplosivgas on May 27, 2017 20:52:06 GMT
6 months ago I was extremely frustrated and impatient at the lack of stadium news or progress, but I've been worn down to the point of indifference. We'll find out in a few months one way of another. But for an incoming new owner, never has there been a potential new stadium more perfectly teed up. If they manage to balls it up it will be --in my opinion-- a result of incompetence and/or personal greed over the club's wellbeing. Wow ...that's a tough call ! i think they will act in the very best interests of the club , if the deal that Higgs brokered with UWE is at best poor business and at worst was a fabrication to appease the fans and improve his credibility I would hope Wael and the family would want to improve on it and gain an upper hand in the dealings. If that's the case, it'd be shoddy due diligence on their part and therefore fall under the 'incompetence' heading.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 20:53:30 GMT
6 months ago I was extremely frustrated and impatient at the lack of stadium news or progress, but I've been worn down to the point of indifference. We'll find out in a few months one way of another. But for an incoming new owner, never has there been a potential new stadium more perfectly teed up. If they manage to balls it up it will be --in my opinion-- a result of incompetence and/or personal greed over the club's wellbeing. My rant is over - but in some respects I agree with what you are saying. There was no site to be found, no designs to me made, no planning applications to be made all the tedious stuff that can take years to overcome was complete- basically it was down to a re- negotiation of a new contract between an existing party and a new owner. The attraction of BRFC to the AQ's initially was effectively just that - a stadium with a planning application approved and a solid fan base with potential for significant growth. They wouldn't have touched us with a barge pole if that wasn't the case. I cannot believe if they carried out due diligence they didn't understand that there were potentially big issues with the existing contract.
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Post by chippenhamgas on May 27, 2017 20:55:03 GMT
6 months ago I was extremely frustrated and impatient at the lack of stadium news or progress, but I've been worn down to the point of indifference. We'll find out in a few months one way of another. But for an incoming new owner, never has there been a potential new stadium more perfectly teed up. If they manage to balls it up it will be --in my opinion-- a result of incompetence and/or personal greed over the club's wellbeing. My rant is over - but in some respects I agree with what you are saying. There was no site to be found, no designs to me made, no planning applications to be made all the tedious stuff that can take years to overcome was complete- basically it was down to a re- negotiation of a new contract between an existing party and a new owner. The attraction of BRFC to the AQ's initially was effectively just that - a stadium with a planning application approved and a solid fan base with potential for significant growth. They wouldn't have touched us with a barge pole if that wasn't the case. I cannot believe if they carried out due diligence they didn't understand that there were potentially big issues with the existing contract. Or maybe they've just changed their minds about investing in a football club.
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Post by pucklegas on May 27, 2017 20:57:24 GMT
Think the criticism of wael is bang out of order, he might have identified a better location at a better price, it's his money and he will get the best deal available, our years of false hope has made us less patient, but the deal has to be right for the club otherwise we could be the next Darlo or Coventry.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 21:13:19 GMT
In many cases this would be true. However. This piece of land is right in the university complex not some random field they own in the countryside. So it probably has a decent value as development/residential land The use of the land needs to be of long term benefit to the university. Not sure that's true, it could be sold for short term financial gain. Saying its just commercial land doesn't wash. It's commercial/residential development land if UWE decide to sell it. UWE are not going to get much out of having students working part time at a Tesco or ikea . Not sure what they'll gain from the UWE if it can't be used as an athletics/multi sports stadium? The use of the land is far more complex than just its current value as a piece of real estate. If it's surplus to UWE requirement it won't be? The justification of the sale of the land will be based upon what value it brings to the education system the uni provides. Alternatively it could be what value it sells for which can then be spent at further developments at the UWE? The uwe has to run long term as a sustainable business and one off never to be repeated income bonuses for the stadium site are not long term thinking. Doesn't that imply selling to the ALQ's at a knock price is a complete non starter? There is a reason why the UWE want a large football stadium on their complex If it's owned and named by Dwane Sports can you name one?
You sense the UWE saw the stadium as a nice money earner with NH prepared to give future income streams away in order to get the UWE built/ the Mem sold, now the ALQ's want to pay back the £30m+ loans from the income streams it's no longer an attractive proposition to the UWE The thing is UWE will be getting a short term financial gain ,whereas the previous boards plans only had the mem sale raising money to build not buy. So short term gain wasn't an UWE option or desire at the time. So its likely but not certain that they want long term gain now rather than instant pounds in the bank.It also meant the UWE had some say on the goings on at the stadium. I have no idea what reasons UWE would want from a football stadium ,but they must have else they wouldn't have such a big complex next door.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 27, 2017 21:23:58 GMT
I think we'll get the answer to that in August, as far them building somewhere else, I won't hold my breath. So Wael and his family purchased ragbag Rovers, a club with a good fan base and planning permission for a much needed new ground and have no intention of building one. That begs the question, why purchase our club in the first place, after all there hardly likely to make any money while we remain playing in one of the worst grounds in the entire football league. I personally have supported this club for over sixty years and as far as I am concerned the present owners deserve a little more of my patience, it's a pity some on here are not prepared to do the same As I understand it Wael bought the club on the understanding the UWE was virtually a done deal, however, the deal agreed by NH clearly wasn't in the club's best interests hence why Hani, and even Mr ALQ, have become involved in trying to broker a decent deal with the UWE, whether one can be agreed is now any bodies guess. If they can't agree a deal you do wonder what their plans will be, as are they really prepared to wait around another 5+ years until an alternative site is found, plans drawn up and approved and then the stadium built, whilst all the time the club's debts are increasing.
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Post by rovers5charlton5 on May 27, 2017 21:30:24 GMT
I live near Chippenham, and you're definitely right there. I don't think he can provide one shred of evidence for anything he says, whereas there's plenty of evidence that the owners can afford the stadium, have the backing from outside investors, and have repeatedly said that things are going ahead. I've said this before, but as fans, we don't have any God given right to be told everything that's going on behind the scenes at the club, even if we'd like to think that we do. Can you remind me when the owners last said "that things are going ahead" - I recall the last statement we had from SH was back in January which was anything but what you are saying - perhaps I've missed something. I'm not sure you can provide a "shred of evidence" to back up any recent "repeated" statements from the chairman to say that things are still going ahead. This is the problem it's all conjecture - nobody (apart from the obvious) know anything - positive or negative. I can't be bothered to look back and justify my comments, but even if it were January as you said, that would be good enough for me. Can you, 'quote' an occasion when anyone on the board has said that there is any problem with any aspect of the deal? The whole process is a lot more complicated than most people realise, but I can understand why people who care so much about the club would want to know that things are progressing nicely. There is a deadline to all of this, and I for one will enjoy being optimistic about it, rather than looking at the whole thing as it's the worst thing that's ever happened to Rovers.
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Post by rovers5charlton5 on May 27, 2017 21:36:12 GMT
My rant is over - but in some respects I agree with what you are saying. There was no site to be found, no designs to me made, no planning applications to be made all the tedious stuff that can take years to overcome was complete- basically it was down to a re- negotiation of a new contract between an existing party and a new owner. The attraction of BRFC to the AQ's initially was effectively just that - a stadium with a planning application approved and a solid fan base with potential for significant growth. They wouldn't have touched us with a barge pole if that wasn't the case. I cannot believe if they carried out due diligence they didn't understand that there were potentially big issues with the existing contract. Or maybe they've just changed their minds about investing in a football club. What evidence do you have for that opinion?
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Post by xplosivgas on May 27, 2017 21:44:30 GMT
So Wael and his family purchased ragbag Rovers, a club with a good fan base and planning permission for a much needed new ground and have no intention of building one. That begs the question, why purchase our club in the first place, after all there hardly likely to make any money while we remain playing in one of the worst grounds in the entire football league. I personally have supported this club for over sixty years and as far as I am concerned the present owners deserve a little more of my patience, it's a pity some on here are not prepared to do the same As I understand it Wael bought the club on the understanding the UWE was virtually a done deal, however, the deal agreed by NH clearly wasn't in the club's best interests hence why Hani, and even Mr ALQ, have become involved in trying to broker a decent deal with the UWE, whether one can be agreed is now any bodies guess. If they can't agree a deal you do wonder what their plans will be, as are they really prepared to wait around another 5+ years until an alternative site is found, plans drawn up and approved and then the stadium built, whilst all the time the club's debts are increasing. Wouldn't the new owners be entitled to ask to see the proposed terms with UWE before buying the club? I know I wouldn't just take someone's word that it's a decent deal if I was about to make an investment and the main selling point's the new stadium!
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Post by Kingswood Polak on May 27, 2017 22:35:40 GMT
As I understand it Wael bought the club on the understanding the UWE was virtually a done deal, however, the deal agreed by NH clearly wasn't in the club's best interests hence why Hani, and even Mr ALQ, have become involved in trying to broker a decent deal with the UWE, whether one can be agreed is now any bodies guess. If they can't agree a deal you do wonder what their plans will be, as are they really prepared to wait around another 5+ years until an alternative site is found, plans drawn up and approved and then the stadium built, whilst all the time the club's debts are increasing. Wouldn't the new owners be entitled to ask to see the proposed terms with UWE before buying the club? I know I wouldn't just take someone's word that it's a decent deal if I was about to make an investment and the main selling point's the new stadium! My own belief and opinion is that the deal was ready but the owners want to buy and not have even the peppercorn rent. Wael has always maintained the deal HAS to benefit the club. Nick Higgs had , from what I know, ceded great amounts to UWE then there was a difference on the rental space under one of the stands. Ive never been patient but I refuse to buy into what a certain bristol post ted writes, as if he would really know. People really should know better
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Post by gasstrictband on May 27, 2017 23:05:27 GMT
For the club to take on the UWE at this late stage, Were gonna need a bigger boat.
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Post by Henbury Gas on May 28, 2017 3:25:38 GMT
6 months ago I was extremely frustrated and impatient at the lack of stadium news or progress, but I've been worn down to the point of indifference. We'll find out in a few months one way of another. But for an incoming new owner, never has there been a potential new stadium more perfectly teed up. If they manage to balls it up it will be --in my opinion-- a result of incompetence and/or personal greed over the club's wellbeing. Bang on. Yes higgs left a dogs breakfast but he did leave behind planning on a site in a fantastic location. The years of work and struggle it will take to find another as good and then get planning don't bear thinking about. If we have to pay over the odds to secure the UWE land, i feel sure YOU will contribute by paying over the odds in ticket prices ?. You do buy tickets to support Bristol Rovers don't you............ I do have my doubts at times that you are a Gashead
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 5:56:08 GMT
I guess 'no deal is better than a bad deal' that is not financially sustainable. But if there is indeed a major stumbling block as 4 months of a 'wall of silence' indicates then even if a plan B emerges few will have confidence it will be delivered. A difficult summer and season will lie ahead if yet another deal falls through.
I feel sorry for the family as I'm sure they are doing their best and negotiating with a University and the bureaucracy that involves cannot be easy. If there is bad news then the sooner it's out in the open the better and I only hope the silence indicates there is still a chance of a deal. If the deal's been dead for months and fans have been kept in the dark then there will be a lot a bad feeling generated.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 6:58:03 GMT
Bristol rovers don't do things the easy way whoever is in charge and are no different to past and present bods with deafening silence keeping everyone guessing
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Post by peterparker on May 28, 2017 7:05:59 GMT
As I understand it Wael bought the club on the understanding the UWE was virtually a done deal, however, the deal agreed by NH clearly wasn't in the club's best interests hence why Hani, and even Mr ALQ, have become involved in trying to broker a decent deal with the UWE, whether one can be agreed is now any bodies guess. If they can't agree a deal you do wonder what their plans will be, as are they really prepared to wait around another 5+ years until an alternative site is found, plans drawn up and approved and then the stadium built, whilst all the time the club's debts are increasing. Wouldn't the new owners be entitled to ask to see the proposed terms with UWE before buying the club? I know I wouldn't just take someone's word that it's a decent deal if I was about to make an investment and the main selling point's the new stadium! Probably should have but there never was an official deal with UWE as Higgs or Watola said so themselves
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