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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 22:12:29 GMT
The typical waste of f**king time interview, we get from our club, so uninspiring, it’s almost laughable. We get shot of Hamer the clown, as and replace him with Starnes, who might as well be a solicitor. No f**king comment!!. Who is actually running this show now? Wael runs it, as the president, via Starnes and Tom Gorringe. It was Starnes who in effect got rid of Hamer.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 22:07:48 GMT
It seems to me that a lot of the acceptance of Wael has come because fans have become inured to under performance by the board gently over time. First it was the training ground, then it was the stadium, then it was the debt, now it’s the manager. Such gradual poor performance over the course of years has left people not even daring to hope for better, to the point where rather than demand better they actually fear who could come next. Stockholm Syndrome, if you like. So another way of considering it is to cast our minds back to the “evolution not revolution” interview. Imagine being told then that 4 years or so on from that moment we would have no new stadium, no new stadium plans even being worked on, no new training ground, and we would have spent some 17 million (secured against the Memorial Stadium) *just* to be a mid table league one side. I wonder how people would have felt? I’ll bet if this same poll was run the day these jokers rocked up with that knowledge in mind the entire fan base would have been against them from the very start. But what was the alternative if they didnt turn up. A club still losing money with a smaller debt in the 4th division possibly Are you seriously suggesting we would not have got promoted without the takeover? Or, being charitable, maybe you meant we might have got relegated last year without the excellent decision to go with GC.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 21:50:42 GMT
Start a Protest ... Off you Go ! Will die out in week or two. When are people going to realise these Suits don’t give a toss about fan reaction or care about fan opinion. They look down their noses at all of us and will do What they want, How they want, When they want with Whom so ever they want. Their retort is ...If you don’t like it ... Don’t come to the games. Sadly we are all addicted Gas heads who care for our clubs well being now and in the future when these Cuckoos in the Nest will have long since flown. Hopefully there will be something left to support ... If they do kill our club we will resurrect it somewhere else... WE are Bristol Rovers not them ! Look at their reaction when people don’t come to the games- Starnes let slip that Garner was an appointment to get crowd but bees back up and may have been planned in advance. Now, you could argue that the stay away fans caused the current mess because of the board’s desire to win them back etc etc but that’s an argument for another thread- I’m just trying to make the point that the way to make the board listen is to take your money away at the turnstile. That’s the only leverage we have and according to Starnes it’s leverage that dictates board policy. Fair point, but it only goes do far as the manager. It doesn't necessarily go any further. That's the problem. They may change manager to get crowds up but they won't put serious effort into a new stadium, or even new trg facilities, as they are not immediate gains. History has shown that low crowds / supporter unhappiness at performances CAN affect board decisions on managers. Certainly did with Ian Atkins who actually 'rescued' us from the morbidity of Gray Raydon. Did with Buckle and McGhee.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 21:31:39 GMT
This is the old chestnut that local gasheads somehow cannot also be talented and professional. Frankly it is bollocks. Utter balls. I judge people on what they produce, not what they say, who they know or how Machiavellian they can be. Wael and the staff he has brought in really have not done a better job than many before them, in fact some have caused huge divisions. They have caused them not by weeding out dodgy or inefficient people, but by being immature and frankly not very nice at times. I have to say Mehew, that’s just a complete ignorance of the facts and progress the 0202 has put up. Our commercial department now is head and shoulders above what it used to be. It draws more income than it ever has. It has to be said that most of the ways of generating that income have been cost neutral over the course of 12 months. We can all be a bit sentimental about our football club. But it still operates like a business, and there is or at least should not be any sentimentality in business. If someone isn’t performing and can’t/won’t improve and can be replaced by better then it should be done. As harsh as that sounds. We'll have to agree to disagree. I know a lot about what has gone on and it is not pretty.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 3:10:56 GMT
This is the old chestnut that local gasheads somehow cannot also be talented and professional. Frankly it is bollocks. Utter balls. I judge people on what they produce, not what they say, who they know or how Machiavellian they can be. Wael and the staff he has brought in really have not done a better job than many before them, in fact some have caused huge divisions. They have caused them not by weeding out dodgy or inefficient people, but by being immature and frankly not very nice at times. I'm not saying we don't have talented individuals, you put words in my text! I'm saying that we have raised standards, and whomever you support shouldn't be the main factor in employment, it's the talents and skills that are important. Also, any changes made will cause division if it's not better than before. I wasn't listing gold, I was trying to point out improvements that have been made in Wael era. The cost is another issue.. The cost though does matter. A LOT more is being spent. Where have the extra budgets come from? Why weren't previous staff given that money? Who gets a cut of sponsorship money that comes in? Re gasheads having jobs. That what I said. A gashead CAN be talented and professional... if they are, um, talented and professional. I wouldn't expect or want them to employ an untalented and unprofessional person of any description.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 3:07:38 GMT
I assume you are probably referencing the gossip around Ian Holtby. Hard to know 100%, but don't let gossip distract people from the fact that many experienced (and mainly good) people and organisations have been sidelined or got rid of via very controlling behaviour, and that current board and staff behaviour can at times be very immature. Hey whether you agree or disagree with gossip, or any of the other factors you mentioned, I think there was, and still is a concerted effort to improve the standards of those replaced. The restaurant is still mostly full or sold out. And more funds find their way to the club Media department is much better, modern fit for purpose? Our match day experience is more sophisticated. A little bit? The supporters club isn't run by the club is a separate entity, but I hope the embezzlement has been cut down a bit? Plus, some decent tunes pre match and during half time.. Don't agree with all of what you right and sadly have to repeat that you do not know how some of that was 'achieved' (if all can be considered an achievement). Embezzlement? Really. You mean the sad criminal case of a lone SC member that was dealt with by the legal system? Or are you gossipping about Holtby, a man whom, like it or not, is massively trusted by many former players and managers, including Gerry F and Ollie, to a point where they won't get involved with the club now. Re the final one... Are you suggesting nick day was no good? You probably know but Lance did the music under nick day and still does it now, so no change on that side.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 2:56:21 GMT
Still as rag bag and unprofessional as ever. LED. End of season awards. Season ticket promotion video. Trials of transportation to matches. Best pitch in years. Media department revitalised. A restaurant where most attending have paid funds to the club. Refurbished bar X2. Refurbished shop. Highest position in 20 years (save a few weeks in 2009). Yep, ragbag.. If only you knew some of the ways some (not all) of that stuff was made / produced / paid for, and the collateral damage along the way. All that glitters is not gold.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 2:52:21 GMT
Whilst I don't disagree with your post, one of the main criticism of they club for many a year was how ragbag and unprofessional we were (or are, depending on your pov?). An isolation or and marginalising of the more negativity of that aspect can be seen as raising standards. Maybe it's the way they've done it that is causing major offence? This is the old chestnut that local gasheads somehow cannot also be talented and professional. Frankly it is bollocks. Utter balls. I judge people on what they produce, not what they say, who they know or how Machiavellian they can be. Wael and the staff he has brought in really have not done a better job than many before them, in fact some have caused huge divisions. They have caused them not by weeding out dodgy or inefficient people, but by being immature and frankly not very nice at times.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 2:44:11 GMT
"The way the board has been set up has made that very very clear, plus the loss of Holtby, Brookman, Screen Soccer and now the SC. It's clearly very very controlling behaviour." Not every single aspect of those individuals mentioned were positive influences though, were they? I assume you are probably referencing the gossip around Ian Holtby. Hard to know 100%, but don't let gossip distract people from the fact that many experienced (and mainly good) people and organisations have been sidelined or got rid of via very controlling behaviour, and that current board and staff behaviour can at times be very immature.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 2:10:22 GMT
protest against what exactly? An owner covering the huge losses now involved in running a football club? An owner fighting off a group of machiavellian amateurs trying to force a bad deal for the club? It’s the same noise that black and gold had when Higgs was in charge. There wasn’t actually any point to it, because no one had actually put forward a plan of how to do things differently with a guarantee to prop up the club. They just fancied a noisier moan than usual. Sitting around letting the club be run the way it is has hardly got us far has it? Ok, so people aren't sure exactly how protest could happen or what may replace them, but surely that sort of 'argument' is exactly what keeps people / cultures / races etc in their place, and retains the status quo. Telling people 'it won't get you anywhere' is exactly what dictatorships want to propagate. Machiavelli? I think you'll find that certain people at the club have clearly read The Prince, rather than the amateurs you vaguely mention. The way the board has been set up has made that very very clear, plus the loss of Holtby, Brookman, Screen Soccer and now the SC. It's clearly very very controlling behaviour.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 19, 2020 1:59:57 GMT
Football politics aside, Hamer was a decent guy. He was an old school football fan at heart and supported and helped several fan led initiatives. I have first hand experience of that. Starnes is different. Simple. Yes, exactly. Hamer may have come across like a bit of a buffoon at times but in hindsight it is easy to see why, as he was probably as bewildered as the rest of us over what the Al Qadi’s intentions were and their frequent changes of mind. Bottom line is that he came across like a human being. It was dispicable that after Coughlan left, both Starnes and Wael wanted to try and get through the situation without comment. As far as I’m aware, Wael still hasn’t made any sort of personal comment through our many changes of manager since, not even in support of Garner when appointed or when he was granted special leave. He may very well have done this in private but why not show the fans that you care and add a bit of clarity and leadership. Instead, his silence just invites the criticism which is now coming his way, after fans have on the whole, been incredibly patient over a long period of time? It is very clear that all is far from well behind the scenes and I hold out little hope in the short run that it will improve. It'll all be OK in the end though because Wael knows a couple of Gas fans and has given up some of his other football stuff to devote his time to BRFC. And he knows will smith. #lowestformofwit?
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 23:26:36 GMT
I am just concerned that people are not going to renew, it creates a self fulfilling prophecy. "The club will never invest in the team" will become the club cant afford anything else. :-( Age old conundrum though... If you pay, you are tacitly supporting them. If you don't, you don't get to see the team you support, AND you get some people telling you you aren't a real supporter.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 23:18:09 GMT
Football politics aside, Hamer was a decent guy. He was an old school football fan at heart and supported and helped several fan led initiatives. I have first hand experience of that. Starnes is different. Simple. He’s Wael’s man. Whatever people think of Hamer, he was a counterpoint to Wael. Now he and Masters have gone it’s the Wael show in full control. It wasn’t great up to this point but just imagine how dark things could get now there are no dissenting voices in that boardroom, just a yes man who is a mate of his. As someone who has a lot of experience with Boards of Directors, it was always a strange situation, which became very strange when a CEO was brought in, with ZERO knowledge from Hamer's side. The SC situation is pretty standard compared. A share holder holds a minor share holding but has 2 board members. Mass majority owner would prefer less. It is controversially reduced to one. Then they sideline the remaining one - well they sideline the entire idea of a 'normal' Board really.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 23:03:48 GMT
Which is not reflected in the posts, all a bit odd, and how can so many posters be "undecided" but none post on here to say why they can't decide? I voted a no, now I want to change it to get out the club asap. i believe you can change vote anytime by just pressing another button.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 23:02:31 GMT
For all those who have said No or get out my club I’m really interested to understand what your realistic expectations are and how Wael and Co have not done what the have always said they’d do? I agree that the communication could be better but us fans don’t have a given right to know absolutely everything about everything that goes on at the club. Re the training ground and stadium I agree better messaging behind why they haven’t progressed as quickly as we’d like would be useful but sometimes we have to take things at face value and accept reasons given. I do accept there are many things they can’t or won’t say due to commercial sensitivity or legal/non disclosure reasons... These reasons don’t make me think they should go - I’m not sure who else would underwrite c£3.5m losses per annum on an ongoing basis and the charge on the Mem is just standard secured loan practice and is only a problem if they call it in - the debt they owe to themselves.... They’ve always said they wouldn’t just gift money to the club and we should be as self sustaining as possible so I’m not sure why anyone thinks they’d suddenly change that stance? Genuinely interested in reasons why.... Fair question. The 'whoah' moment for me was when nothing happened re the colony. Putting all the internal politics etc to one side for a moment (Hamer / Starnes, SC, staff disagreements etc), that project was something very tangible, relatively simple and VERY achievable. It made total sense to bring all the players together into one place, to improve the academy status (when possible), and be able to attract, develope and retain players, or even to make a profit from them which could be reinvested (cf. Brentford). Training facilities are a HUGE thing for players and for staff. They spend most of their footballing lives there, NOT at the stadium. For a club our size it is one of the few projects we can implement without a huge amount of hassle, yet also has a huge impact on our players, our status, our attractiveness and ultimately, hopefully, our performance. It has potential for income generation as well, not just pitch and facilities hire, but also events and even in selling on players. It's a step to say, yes, we are doing stuff, yes we can get things done, yes we can manage projects, yes we are good businessmen, yes we are good leaders, yes we can all work as a team, yes we can see the future and (sad one) yes we can keep our promise to one of the best managers we ever had (and yes, fair play, I admit he did go haywire in the last 12 months...although a lot of that was his emotions at being lied to) Other clubs have achieved it. We haven't. We didn't even get close. We bought some land and then... Well. To suggest that Cribbs is ok is laughable. GC was clearly in the first fruits of his long awaited first managerial job when he strangely said it was fine. And how ironic it was that within one year the lack of decent facilities and the lack of ambition was part of his reason for leaving.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 22:35:35 GMT
He's a fantasist charlatan. Remember when he said at the beginning he would be here as long as everyone wanted him? That’s been shown up to be more fantasy. The fact that he now sits on a board of just him and his mate Starnes tells me that he’s actually switched to a bunker mentality and will be prised from his role of president kicking and screaming. Bunker? Ceaușescu? Hussein?
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 22:22:12 GMT
I suppose the alternative is to stop blocking other potential owners with demands to keep a % of the football club after any takeover and let one of the other 12 or 13 interested parties (that Wael spoke of after his takeover) have a go at delivering what Waely obviously can't. We're going nowhere fast with this narcissistic fantasist at the helm. Not having a pop here but can you be sure that Wael holding a percentage is what’s stopping anything happening? Sounds like another “forum fact” Ask him and report back to us.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 21:55:39 GMT
Not really, when in his last interview Starnes said it’s not in his remit. Given the nature of his answers today there was no way he’d suddenly answer one on the Fruit Market. I don’t think Geoff could have done much more really. If your interviewee doesn’t want to give any info then he literally could have asked anything and it wouldn’t have made a difference. Spot on. It's quite obvious that Starmes is the perfect man for Wael. Does not give any information whatsoever and is the ideal yes man for Wael to hide behind. It's now clear that all the bile spread about the much maligned Steve Hamer and his subsequent removal was simply smoke and mirrors to allow our owner to disappear even farther into the vortex and avoid having to front up to the fanbase to answer very awkward questions.My only hope is that out there somewhere is someone who can afford to buy out our owners and end all this uncertainty before our club is brought to its knees. Mr Starmes laughing at GT today has clearly shown what kind of person he is and I would suggest the sooner he is gone the better. No disrespect, but I thought that was obvious. And has happened in millions of situations throughout history. [Not saying I agree with it...]
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 21:50:31 GMT
Could at least be civil. Could at least TRY to give a reason why under the ownership nothing has really moved on in terms of trg ground or football stadium. Could at least TRY to explain why under the ownership Holtby, Brookman and Screen Soccer have been forced out, plus Hamer and masters, why the club are obsessed with making as much money as possible, and are not interested in utilising several supporter led initiatives; in fact is actively shutting them out. Manners and being civil cosy nothing, being a patronising public schoolboy says it all, I never thought I’d say it but Hamer was heads and shoulders above this patronising idiot. An uprising is needed against them, no more sitting back listening to their sound bites. For their supporters where’s the Colony ? Football politics aside, Hamer was a decent guy. He was an old school football fan at heart and supported and helped several fan led initiatives. I have first hand experience of that. Starnes is different. Simple.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 21:41:27 GMT
No questions about the fruit market was poor from Geoff. Not really, when in his last interview Starnes said it’s not in his remit. Given the nature of his answers today there was no way he’d suddenly answer one on the Fruit Market. I don’t think Geoff could have done much more really. If your interviewee doesn’t want to give any info then he literally could have asked anything and it wouldn’t have made a difference. Genuine, simple and fair question... Whose remit is it then? That is a question that can be asked. We don't now have the complexity of having a CEO and a paid Chairman of the Board. We don't indeed have much of a Board. So who actually makes decisions and how are they made? Who answers any questions on the subject and who will communicate decisions to the plebs?
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