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Post by peterparker on May 4, 2018 14:50:15 GMT
are we living within our means? No, but what is your solution?
The club requires investment to make it profitable doesn't it?
Peter, remember the debates about outside investment in 2011/12 ? We were in a perfect position to attract it then with planning agreed for the UWE Stadium, hardly any debt and a huge amount of equity in the Memorial Stadium even without Sainsburys. All it needed was for Nick Higgs to have had the vision to realise that outside investment was essential to drive through the project and transform the club. It was a chance to finally get away from the small town mentality and an obsession with keeping hands on control which blights so many small businesses that could otherwise grow and prosper. We tried to persuade him but didn't succeed. Now we are in a far worse position with no equity in the Mem and nothing much to offer other than our place in League 1 and that elusive quality called potential. The solution is to bring in fresh risk capital to finance the new infrastructure required and the only way I can see that happening is for Dwane Sports to turn their loan into equity and be prepared to give up their majority shareholding. Whether it comes from the Al-Qadi's or outside is one thing, but the club needs money to put itself in a position to increase revenue etc.
It's all well and good CGH say we should live within our means, but that would just see us slide down the leagues again. At least Dwane are putting money into to things to increase revenues whether it is a loan or not
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Post by garystash on May 4, 2018 14:51:19 GMT
Did anyone pick up on DC's comment, with emphasis, about how hard people are working behind the scenes or just 'that pause'? Yes I did, but also noted that it was not the owners he credited with the work. |
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Post by LJG on May 4, 2018 14:52:23 GMT
are we living within our means? No, but what is your solution?
The club requires investment to make it profitable doesn't it?
Peter, remember the debates about outside investment in 2011/12 ? We were in a perfect position to attract it then with planning agreed for the UWE Stadium, hardly any debt and a huge amount of equity in the Memorial Stadium even without Sainsburys. All it needed was for Nick Higgs to have had the vision to realise that outside investment was essential to drive through the project and transform the club. It was a chance to finally get away from the small town mentality and an obsession with keeping hands on control which blights so many small businesses that could otherwise grow and prosper. We tried to persuade him but didn't succeed. Now we are in a far worse position with no equity in the Mem and nothing much to offer other than our place in League 1 and that elusive quality called potential. The solution is to bring in fresh risk capital to finance the new infrastructure required and the only way I can see that happening is for Dwane Sports to turn their loan into equity and be prepared to give up their majority shareholding. Why does it have to be outside investment? |
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Post by LJG on May 4, 2018 14:53:19 GMT
I've spent a load of money on a trainer and livery and he hasn't come in once. Tough innit? So ultimately you have no suggestions about what should be done differently? What is your Nag called LJG? I will keep an eye out for it..... and avoid like the plague!  Sofa Kings Low. |
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Post by Topper Gas on May 4, 2018 14:56:19 GMT
are we living within our means? No, but what is your solution?
The club requires investment to make it profitable doesn't it?
Peter, remember the debates about outside investment in 2011/12 ? We were in a perfect position to attract it then with planning agreed for the UWE Stadium, hardly any debt and a huge amount of equity in the Memorial Stadium even without Sainsburys. All it needed was for Nick Higgs to have had the vision to realise that outside investment was essential to drive through the project and transform the club. It was a chance to finally get away from the small town mentality and an obsession with keeping hands on control which blights so many small businesses that could otherwise grow and prosper. We tried to persuade him but didn't succeed. Now we are in a far worse position with no equity in the Mem and nothing much to offer other than our place in League 1 and that elusive quality called potential. The solution is to bring in fresh risk capital to finance the new infrastructure required and the only way I can see that happening is for Dwane Sports to turn their loan into equity and be prepared to give up their majority shareholding. But wouldn't outside investors have still hit the brick wall which seems to be the UWE when it comes to agreeing a reasonable deal, as the ALQ have found in the last couple of years? The time frame is fairly irrelevant as apart from Sainsbury's walking it still comes down to being unable to agree a reasonable deal with the UWE. As far as DS nobody really knows what financial backing they have or don't have, most of the negative posters would have suggested they'd be walking this summer not employing a CEO & HoR, which won't be cheap, and potentially submitting plans for the training ground. |
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Post by peterparker on May 4, 2018 14:57:42 GMT
Did anyone pick up on DC's comment, with emphasis, about how hard people are working behind the scenes or just 'that pause'? Yes I did, but also noted that it was not the owners he credited with the work. why would the owners put in the work. They are paying people to do it aren't they |
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Post by countygroundhotel on May 4, 2018 15:16:40 GMT
Not having signed a confidentiality agreement to do due diligence on the books no. However looking at the limited information in the public domain I know it's a fact we aren't living within our means. Appreciate that an Internet forum isn't the place to quote facts as it offends so many people. How are you getting on training that racehorse from the corner shop? are we living within our means? No, but what is your solution?
The club requires investment to make it profitable doesn't it?
As I've said previously I hope the owners are looking as closely at improving revenues as they are on increasing costs. Investment is needed in the bricks and mortar infrastructure of the club as without that and a plan employing a head of recruitment is superfluous to our needs (probably like the office in London). Hopefully I'll be cheering the owners following the announcement of a concrete stadium proposal but I won't be holding my breath based on the progress seen to date on the training ground, the big problem with UWE was not owning the freehold but Dwane Sports own the freehold on the proposed training ground and still nothing us happening there (unless I've missed a development). Think along with Swiss I'm one of few that cares about the finances of the club. To LJG for a start I wouldn't be wasting money on that office in London |
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Post by countygroundhotel on May 4, 2018 15:18:48 GMT
Peter, remember the debates about outside investment in 2011/12 ? We were in a perfect position to attract it then with planning agreed for the UWE Stadium, hardly any debt and a huge amount of equity in the Memorial Stadium even without Sainsburys. All it needed was for Nick Higgs to have had the vision to realise that outside investment was essential to drive through the project and transform the club. It was a chance to finally get away from the small town mentality and an obsession with keeping hands on control which blights so many small businesses that could otherwise grow and prosper. We tried to persuade him but didn't succeed. Now we are in a far worse position with no equity in the Mem and nothing much to offer other than our place in League 1 and that elusive quality called potential. The solution is to bring in fresh risk capital to finance the new infrastructure required and the only way I can see that happening is for Dwane Sports to turn their loan into equity and be prepared to give up their majority shareholding. Whether it comes from the Al-Qadi's or outside is one thing, but the club needs money to put itself in a position to increase revenue etc.
It's all well and good CGH say we should live within our means, but that would just see us slide down the leagues again. At least Dwane are putting money into to things to increase revenues whether it is a loan or not
Sorry hadn't seen this reply no I didn't say we should be living within our means I said we weren't living within our means, completely different statements. It was Henbury who incorrectly said we were living within in our means. |
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Post by LJG on May 4, 2018 15:27:31 GMT
are we living within our means? No, but what is your solution?
The club requires investment to make it profitable doesn't it?
As I've said previously I hope the owners are looking as closely at improving revenues as they are on increasing costs. Investment is needed in the bricks and mortar infrastructure of the club as without that and a plan employing a head of recruitment is superfluous to our needs (probably like the office in London). Hopefully I'll be cheering the owners following the announcement of a concrete stadium proposal but I won't be holding my breath based on the progress seen to date on the training ground, the big problem with UWE was not owning the freehold but Dwane Sports own the freehold on the proposed training ground and still nothing us happening there (unless I've missed a development). Think along with Swiss I'm one of few that cares about the finances of the club. To LJG for a start I wouldn't be wasting money on that office in London OK great so a 2 desk serviced office in London will cost roughly £1,300 per month that's £15,600 per year. So you've saved less than half an Ollie Clark. Well done, what else? |
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Post by LJG on May 4, 2018 15:32:23 GMT
Whether it comes from the Al-Qadi's or outside is one thing, but the club needs money to put itself in a position to increase revenue etc.
It's all well and good CGH say we should live within our means, but that would just see us slide down the leagues again. At least Dwane are putting money into to things to increase revenues whether it is a loan or not
Sorry hadn't seen this reply no I didn't say we should be living within our means I said we weren't living within our means, completely different statements. It was Henbury who incorrectly said we were living within in our means. I would prefer a model that at least tries to live within it's means. |
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Post by countygroundhotel on May 4, 2018 15:49:50 GMT
As I've said previously I hope the owners are looking as closely at improving revenues as they are on increasing costs. Investment is needed in the bricks and mortar infrastructure of the club as without that and a plan employing a head of recruitment is superfluous to our needs (probably like the office in London). Hopefully I'll be cheering the owners following the announcement of a concrete stadium proposal but I won't be holding my breath based on the progress seen to date on the training ground, the big problem with UWE was not owning the freehold but Dwane Sports own the freehold on the proposed training ground and still nothing us happening there (unless I've missed a development). Think along with Swiss I'm one of few that cares about the finances of the club. To LJG for a start I wouldn't be wasting money on that office in London OK great so a 2 desk serviced office in London will cost roughly £1,300 per month that's £15,600 per year. So you've saved less than half an Ollie Clark. Well done, what else? The figures previously quoted on here was circa £250k. And yes I would prefer a model that has us living within in our means, if you think that's odd I can only presume you admire Jeremy corbyn. |
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Post by garystash on May 4, 2018 15:58:15 GMT
Yes I did, but also noted that it was not the owners he credited with the work. why would the owners put in the work. They are paying people to do it aren't they It's a fair point, he actually did credit them in the interview with allowing him to build a backroom team. But then went on to say how it's cheap (relatively) to do that. However, he's clearly sceptical of them as last season he was saying how he and his staff had gotten everything they'd asked for. This season, anything he's said about them has been critical. To me, he still doesn't sound convinced that we'll get the training ground sorted. |
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Post by LJG on May 4, 2018 16:01:33 GMT
OK great so a 2 desk serviced office in London will cost roughly £1,300 per month that's £15,600 per year. So you've saved less than half an Ollie Clark. Well done, what else? The figures previously quoted on here was circa £250k. And yes I would prefer a model that has us living within in our means, if you think that's odd I can only presume you admire Jeremy corbyn. Presume what you want. Why can't you just say how you would run the football club differently instead of always making jibes? |
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Post by LJG on May 4, 2018 16:03:11 GMT
OK great so a 2 desk serviced office in London will cost roughly £1,300 per month that's £15,600 per year. So you've saved less than half an Ollie Clark. Well done, what else? The figures previously quoted on here was circa £250k. And yes I would prefer a model that has us living within in our means, if you think that's odd I can only presume you admire Jeremy corbyn. Also quarter of a million? For a serviced office with two desks? Do you think that seems realistic? |
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Post by garystash on May 4, 2018 16:07:06 GMT
The figures previously quoted on here was circa £250k. And yes I would prefer a model that has us living within in our means, if you think that's odd I can only presume you admire Jeremy corbyn. Also quarter of a million? For a serviced office with two desks? Do you think that seems realistic? That's £21K per month. Even by London standards I think it's a bit much. |
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Post by swissgas on May 4, 2018 17:04:31 GMT
Peter, remember the debates about outside investment in 2011/12 ? We were in a perfect position to attract it then with planning agreed for the UWE Stadium, hardly any debt and a huge amount of equity in the Memorial Stadium even without Sainsburys. All it needed was for Nick Higgs to have had the vision to realise that outside investment was essential to drive through the project and transform the club. It was a chance to finally get away from the small town mentality and an obsession with keeping hands on control which blights so many small businesses that could otherwise grow and prosper. We tried to persuade him but didn't succeed. Now we are in a far worse position with no equity in the Mem and nothing much to offer other than our place in League 1 and that elusive quality called potential. The solution is to bring in fresh risk capital to finance the new infrastructure required and the only way I can see that happening is for Dwane Sports to turn their loan into equity and be prepared to give up their majority shareholding. But wouldn't outside investors have still hit the brick wall which seems to be the UWE when it comes to agreeing a reasonable deal, as the ALQ have found in the last couple of years? The time frame is fairly irrelevant as apart from Sainsbury's walking it still comes down to being unable to agree a reasonable deal with the UWE. As far as DS nobody really knows what financial backing they have or don't have, most of the negative posters would have suggested they'd be walking this summer not employing a CEO & HoR, which won't be cheap, and potentially submitting plans for the training ground. With all the information I managed to gather about the UWE Stadium project I came to the conclusion that it was a fantastic opportunity for Rovers so long as there was sufficient cash available to finance the build, the business infrastructure to go with it and the working capital to run the football club. If there wasn't sufficient cash available for all that it wouldn't work and IMO this is why neither Nick nor Wael could proceed with it. UWE is a serious organization run by serious people and they definitely wanted the stadium project to succeed so I could never fathom the talk about them wanting to screw Rovers and, for example, have men with clipboards counting how many pasties we sold so they got their share. For me that argument never stacked up and was just an excuse which appeared plausible to many fans and was a diversion from the real reason for the failure which was lack of cash. Dwane Sports is a £2 brass plate offshore company beneficially owned by the Al-Qadi family and this company has found £15 million to provide a credit facility to Rovers. There is nothing wrong with that and we don't need to know where the cash comes from so long as there is sufficient of it to make Rovers successful as a football club and as a business. Again, from the information I managed to gather, I have come to the conclusion that the Al-Qadi family themselves don't have sufficient cash resources available to finance what is needed at Rovers and will therefore need outside investment to do the job properly. |
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Post by Henbury Gas on May 4, 2018 17:16:00 GMT
Whether it comes from the Al-Qadi's or outside is one thing, but the club needs money to put itself in a position to increase revenue etc.
It's all well and good CGH say we should live within our means, but that would just see us slide down the leagues again. At least Dwane are putting money into to things to increase revenues whether it is a loan or not
Sorry hadn't seen this reply no I didn't say we should be living within our means I said we weren't living within our means, completely different statements. It was Henbury who incorrectly said we were living within in our means. No i did not i said the owners are living within there means |
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Post by peterparker on May 4, 2018 17:46:58 GMT
But wouldn't outside investors have still hit the brick wall which seems to be the UWE when it comes to agreeing a reasonable deal, as the ALQ have found in the last couple of years? The time frame is fairly irrelevant as apart from Sainsbury's walking it still comes down to being unable to agree a reasonable deal with the UWE. As far as DS nobody really knows what financial backing they have or don't have, most of the negative posters would have suggested they'd be walking this summer not employing a CEO & HoR, which won't be cheap, and potentially submitting plans for the training ground. With all the information I managed to gather about the UWE Stadium project I came to the conclusion that it was a fantastic opportunity for Rovers so long as there was sufficient cash available to finance the build, the business infrastructure to go with it and the working capital to run the football club. If there wasn't sufficient cash available for all that it wouldn't work and IMO this is why neither Nick nor Wael could proceed with it. UWE is a serious organization run by serious people and they definitely wanted the stadium project to succeed so I could never fathom the talk about them wanting to screw Rovers and, for example, have men with clipboards counting how many pasties we sold so they got their share. For me that argument never stacked up and was just an excuse which appeared plausible to many fans and was a diversion from the real reason for the failure which was lack of cash. Dwane Sports is a £2 brass plate offshore company beneficially owned by the Al-Qadi family and this company has found £15 million to provide a credit facility to Rovers. There is nothing wrong with that and we don't need to know where the cash comes from so long as there is sufficient of it to make Rovers successful as a football club and as a business. Again, from the information I managed to gather, I have come to the conclusion that the Al-Qadi family themselves don't have sufficient cash resources available to finance what is needed at Rovers and will therefore need outside investment to do the job properly. presumably when exploring the UWE project, Dwane sports had outside investment lined up for the project. |
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Post by countygroundhotel on May 4, 2018 17:58:01 GMT
The figures previously quoted on here was circa £250k. And yes I would prefer a model that has us living within in our means, if you think that's odd I can only presume you admire Jeremy corbyn. Presume what you want. Why can't you just say how you would run the football club differently instead of always making jibes? Most people on here presume what they want. I'll repeat again that I've not done any due diligence so like you neither know the cost of the unnecessary London office or what ollie clatke earns, I was just quoting figures bandied around on this forum. Again without due diligence how can I propose how to run the club? However a sound business starting point is to control costs and maximise revenues, I see a lot of costs coming into the club and just hope there is as much focus on revenue generation. |
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Post by LJG on May 4, 2018 18:07:58 GMT
Also quarter of a million? For a serviced office with two desks? Do you think that seems realistic? That's £21K per month. Even by London standards I think it's a bit much. Yeah my firm has an office in the city - 44 desks over 5000 square feet. It's just under £380,000 per year. There's absolutely no way 2 desks is costing 250 thousand. |
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