|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 24, 2018 16:53:16 GMT
Lol. Ok. Don't get me wrong, it's interesting to look at but I think there are lots of ways of interperating your figures. I'm not disputing the raw data. I suppose a different way of looking at it (and I am possibly wrong) is that by getting in free/out of contract players are we able to get in better players because we can spend the transfer fee on wages instead? Take Bennett as an example, let's say for arguments sake we offer to pay £250k but his wage demands are too high so we miss out. Or we get him for free but pay his wages out of the £250k we saved. Now we have a quality player that we haven't paid a transfer fee for, but we have still had the same outlay. That's the point I was trying to make. If 3.4M has disappeared into a black hole then you raise a good point. I don't know if you are right and the money has disappeared or if I'm right and we've just found a more creative way to spend the same money. The Tilson fee you mention is still a shocking stat though. Especially in these days of crazy prices for players it is staggering that he is still our record signing. I don't think it has disappeared into a black hole per say, I think it was just sucked up in losses that occurred because of really poor running of the football club for a long time. Thankfully I think those days are gone. The Tilson fee indeed is the perhaps more staggering stat.. I know Burton have recently had a spell in the Championship, but they are a tiny club and their record fee is far more than ours at £500k! The point I was getting at really was that if ever there was a time to invest some of the money we have recouped of late back into the playing team then it absolutely must be now? I don't think many will disagree. I'm not sure that it will be though. (Source? Ten years of data)
|
|
|
Post by cj on Jul 24, 2018 16:58:25 GMT
Would some of the money go on solicitor fee's for the Sainsburys court case? That dragged on for a while so would have been expensive. Unless we had a no win no fee company. Then you have the planning stuff for UWE too which cost money. How about when we tried appealing against our relegation and accused Wycombe of some dodgy dealings. Solicitor fee's again for that. I am sure I am missing some other stuff. Like new tents and 2 new pitches for example.
|
|
|
Post by mjhgas on Jul 24, 2018 17:02:06 GMT
Losses running the football club will outweigh the net transfer fees - next.......
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 18:44:16 GMT
Doesn't take into account signing on fees, wages, bonuses etc. For example we didn't pick up Bennett or Criag without paying some money yet they would be considered "Free". Too simplistic to look at transfer fees. Interesting figures, but I would think similar to most if not all lower league clubs who lose fortunes every year. Whether we like it or not, transfer fees have to go towards debt and running the club too, and cannot be ring fenced for the purchase of new players. We ain't Chelsea. We, like most, have to sell big and buy small, hoping those small purchases (Taylor, Bodin, Harrison in recent years) make some money back. Hooefully that will accompany an upturn in performance, as it has since DC arrived.
|
|
|
Post by Midsomer Murderer on Jul 24, 2018 18:46:32 GMT
Doesn't take into account signing on fees, wages, bonuses etc. For example we didn't pick up Bennett or Criag without paying some money yet they would be considered "Free". Too simplistic to look at transfer fees. Interesting figures, but I would think similar to most if not all lower league clubs who lose fortunes every year. Whether we like it or not, transfer fees have to go towards debt and running the club too, and cannot be ring fenced for the purchase of new players. We ain't Chelsea. We, like most, have to sell big and buy small, hoping those small purchases (Taylor, Bodin, Harrison in recent years) make some money back. Hooefully that will accompany an upturn in performance, as it has since DC arrived. Far to optimistic ban him
|
|
|
Post by richard on Jul 24, 2018 18:57:22 GMT
Who did we sell between 2010 and 2015? My mind has gone completely blank.
|
|
|
Post by mariobalotelli on Jul 24, 2018 19:02:49 GMT
Who did we sell between 2010 and 2015? My mind has gone completely blank. Will Hoskins & Carayol of the top of my head
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Jul 24, 2018 20:30:33 GMT
Lol. Ok. Don't get me wrong, it's interesting to look at but I think there are lots of ways of interperating your figures. I'm not disputing the raw data. I suppose a different way of looking at it (and I am possibly wrong) is that by getting in free/out of contract players are we able to get in better players because we can spend the transfer fee on wages instead? Take Bennett as an example, let's say for arguments sake we offer to pay £250k but his wage demands are too high so we miss out. Or we get him for free but pay his wages out of the £250k we saved. Now we have a quality player that we haven't paid a transfer fee for, but we have still had the same outlay. That's the point I was trying to make. If 3.4M has disappeared into a black hole then you raise a good point. I don't know if you are right and the money has disappeared or if I'm right and we've just found a more creative way to spend the same money. The Tilson fee you mention is still a shocking stat though. Especially in these days of crazy prices for players it is staggering that he is still our record signing. I don't think it has disappeared into a black hole per say, I think it was just sucked up in losses that occurred because of really poor running of the football club for a long time. Thankfully I think those days are gone. The Tilson fee indeed is the perhaps more staggering stat.. I know Burton have recently had a spell in the Championship, but they are a tiny club and their record fee is far more than ours at £500k! The point I was getting at really was that if ever there was a time to invest some of the money we have recouped of late back into the playing team then it absolutely must be now? Was the club run that poorly though as we're still losing £2/3m each season, I can't see there ever being a time we break even at the Mem and if we ever build to a new stadium we'll have to meet the interest charges the question is will the ALQ's be prepared to keep reinvesting transfer income or will they want some of the income to pay off some the debts, we're in for an interesting couple of weeks!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 23:15:33 GMT
Feel a bit sorry for the op who has had a negative reaction to a thread he has created. Thank god its never happened to me.
|
|
|
Post by Gastafari on Jul 25, 2018 0:52:41 GMT
Who did we sell between 2010 and 2015? My mind has gone completely blank. Chris Lines, Matt Macey, Donovan Wilson. Did we get a fee for Michael Smith?
|
|
pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 18,709
|
Post by pirate on Jul 25, 2018 1:09:05 GMT
Who did we sell between 2010 and 2015? My mind has gone completely blank. Chris Lines, Matt Macey, Donovan Wilson. Did we get a fee for Michael Smith? Nick Higgs said: "We held on to get the best deal we could from Peterborough, and negotiated a six figure fee, which will remain undisclosed, as well as a number of further conditions." Alefe Santos to Derby is one where they paid some compensation.
|
|
|
Post by Wembley_Gas on Jul 25, 2018 5:22:49 GMT
Does the analysis include add ons from previous transfers? Two promotions and England caps for Rickie Lambert for example. Southampton probably laughed at those clauses initially but had to pay them.
|
|
|
Post by rambo on Jul 25, 2018 6:58:10 GMT
I found this quite interesting but then I thought there must be a better and more accurate way in which to judge these figures. The accounts get filed each year on Companies House here beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00051828When a player is purchased, "the company capitalises as intangible asset the element of a player's fee which relates to his registration and associated costs" so in theory, the amount in "additions" to intangible assets will be all costs associated with bringing in players and more accurate than these figures provided on this thread. In terms of sales, "profit on sale of players" and "net compensation for loss of youth players" are both individually itemised in the accounts. Profit on sale of players will be after deducting the cost (less amortisation) in accounts so this needs to be added back on to get proceeds, but these numbers can be easily found in the intangibles note. So based on the above: Season 2008/09Total spent = £219,000 Proceeds on sale of players = £52,641 Compensation for loss of youth players = £126,000 Balance = -£40,359 Season 2009/10
Total spent = £118,842 Proceeds on sale of players = £694,253 Compensation for loss of youth players = -£33,077 Balance = +542,334 Season 2010/11
Total spent = £62,518 Proceeds on sale of players = £745,192 Compensation for loss of youth players = £188,125 Balance = +£870,799 Season 2011/12
Total spent = £81,110 Proceeds on sale of players = £311,530 Compensation for loss of youth players = £12,500 Balance = +£242,920 Season 2012/13
Total spent = £173,964 Proceeds on sale of players = £339,917 Compensation for loss of youth players = £221,400 Balance = +£387,353 Season 2013/14
Total spent = £20,735 Proceeds on sale of players = £470,333 Compensation for loss of youth players = £151,500 Balance = +£601,098 Season 2014/15
Total spent = £55,469 Proceeds on sale of players = £152,393 Compensation for loss of youth players = £108,664 Balance = +£205,588 Season 2015/16
Total spent = £66,231 Proceeds on sale of players = £12,500 Compensation for loss of youth players = £90,000 Balance = +£36,269 Season 2016/17
Total spent = £363,423 Proceeds on sale of players = £332,018 Compensation for loss of youth players = £0 Balance = -£31,405 Season 2017/18
No accounts yet Season 2018/19
No accounts yet Final balance on transfer activity to June 2017 = +£2.3m which is pretty much as calculated to that point in the OP. I'm not sure how accounts work for things like paying for add-ons etc for example i'm sure the OP has Lambert sale all in one year (1.2m?) whereas from the accounts that receipt is probably spread over a few seasons. All evens out in the end. Interesting how much we get compensated for youth players... £865k over that period.
|
|
|
Post by gaelgas on Jul 25, 2018 14:03:50 GMT
It might be interesting to compare our transfer record with that of similar clubs in leagues one and two to see if they have a similar transfer profile. That may confirm whether income from transfers is an important source of income in helping to keep clubs at our level afloat or if we are unusual.
I do agree that our record signing being from 25 years ago is a bit shocking, especially given the way transfers have increased over the years.
|
|
|
Post by dinsdale on Jul 25, 2018 20:18:07 GMT
Found this really interesting.. There is a certain amount of educated guess work with regards to fees both given and received , but as a rule of thumb I think it is about right and the results are interesting.. Season 2008/09Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = £0 Season 2009/10
Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £1.2M Balance = +£1.2M Season 2010/11
Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £95k Balance = +£95k Season 2011/12Total transfer fees spent = £75K Total transfer fees received = £625k Balance = +£550K Season 2012/13Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £640k Balance = +£640k Season 2013/14Total transfer fees spent = £250K Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = -£250K Season 2014/15Total transfer fees spent = £50k Total transfer fees received = £200k Balance = +£150k Season 2015/16Total transfer fees spent = £200k Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = -£200k Season 2016/17Total transfer fees spent = £35k Total transfer fees received = £350k Balance = +£315k Season 2017/18Total transfer fees spent = £500k Total transfer fees received = £450k Balance = -£50k Season 2018/19Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £940k Balance = +£940k Final balance on transfer activity over the last ten years = +£3.4M
As I say, there is an element of guess work in some of those workings out where fees were never released, but in almost all cases the fees were pretty much public information, so the guesses will not be too far off the mark but the figures will of course not be exact. Having said that, these figures are close enough to show the trend over the last ten years. Another interesting stat is that our record transfer fee paid is one of the lowest in the division at £375,000k, a fee of course paid over 25 years ago for one Andy Tilson. None of this was meant as 'board bashing' and I hope it is not taken as such, but it is clear that we have been reserved (some would say shown a lack of ambition) in the transfer market. The point of all of this is, wouldn't it be great if now we have already received nearly £1m in fees this summer, we went and smashed our transfer record for a real top top proven player? It is something we have never really done before whilst clubs around us do it every season. Over to you Mr Chairman.. We are £10m in debt and losing over £2m a season how exactly are we paying for this?
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 26, 2018 6:13:19 GMT
Found this really interesting.. There is a certain amount of educated guess work with regards to fees both given and received , but as a rule of thumb I think it is about right and the results are interesting.. Season 2008/09Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = £0 Season 2009/10
Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £1.2M Balance = +£1.2M Season 2010/11
Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £95k Balance = +£95k Season 2011/12Total transfer fees spent = £75K Total transfer fees received = £625k Balance = +£550K Season 2012/13Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £640k Balance = +£640k Season 2013/14Total transfer fees spent = £250K Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = -£250K Season 2014/15Total transfer fees spent = £50k Total transfer fees received = £200k Balance = +£150k Season 2015/16Total transfer fees spent = £200k Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = -£200k Season 2016/17Total transfer fees spent = £35k Total transfer fees received = £350k Balance = +£315k Season 2017/18Total transfer fees spent = £500k Total transfer fees received = £450k Balance = -£50k Season 2018/19Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £940k Balance = +£940k Final balance on transfer activity over the last ten years = +£3.4M
As I say, there is an element of guess work in some of those workings out where fees were never released, but in almost all cases the fees were pretty much public information, so the guesses will not be too far off the mark but the figures will of course not be exact. Having said that, these figures are close enough to show the trend over the last ten years. Another interesting stat is that our record transfer fee paid is one of the lowest in the division at £375,000k, a fee of course paid over 25 years ago for one Andy Tilson. None of this was meant as 'board bashing' and I hope it is not taken as such, but it is clear that we have been reserved (some would say shown a lack of ambition) in the transfer market. The point of all of this is, wouldn't it be great if now we have already received nearly £1m in fees this summer, we went and smashed our transfer record for a real top top proven player? It is something we have never really done before whilst clubs around us do it every season. Over to you Mr Chairman.. We are £10m in debt and losing over £2m a season how exactly are we paying for this? Luck and Chemistry.
|
|
|
Post by rovers5charlton5 on Jul 26, 2018 7:35:23 GMT
Found this really interesting.. There is a certain amount of educated guess work with regards to fees both given and received , but as a rule of thumb I think it is about right and the results are interesting.. Season 2008/09Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = £0 Season 2009/10
Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £1.2M Balance = +£1.2M Season 2010/11
Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £95k Balance = +£95k Season 2011/12Total transfer fees spent = £75K Total transfer fees received = £625k Balance = +£550K Season 2012/13Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £640k Balance = +£640k Season 2013/14Total transfer fees spent = £250K Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = -£250K Season 2014/15Total transfer fees spent = £50k Total transfer fees received = £200k Balance = +£150k Season 2015/16Total transfer fees spent = £200k Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = -£200k Season 2016/17Total transfer fees spent = £35k Total transfer fees received = £350k Balance = +£315k Season 2017/18Total transfer fees spent = £500k Total transfer fees received = £450k Balance = -£50k Season 2018/19Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £940k Balance = +£940k Final balance on transfer activity over the last ten years = +£3.4M
As I say, there is an element of guess work in some of those workings out where fees were never released, but in almost all cases the fees were pretty much public information, so the guesses will not be too far off the mark but the figures will of course not be exact. Having said that, these figures are close enough to show the trend over the last ten years. Another interesting stat is that our record transfer fee paid is one of the lowest in the division at £375,000k, a fee of course paid over 25 years ago for one Andy Tilson. None of this was meant as 'board bashing' and I hope it is not taken as such, but it is clear that we have been reserved (some would say shown a lack of ambition) in the transfer market. The point of all of this is, wouldn't it be great if now we have already received nearly £1m in fees this summer, we went and smashed our transfer record for a real top top proven player? It is something we have never really done before whilst clubs around us do it every season. Over to you Mr Chairman.. How have we got nearly a million this summer when we only seem to have sold Harrison and he appears to have gone for £750m plus add ons in the future? I guess the big question is did DC know he was off, so that allowed him to beat Burton for Rodman, plus bring in Upson, Matthews and the new LB, or is his fee a bonus Doidge or Cole are the targets for me if DC's got decent money to spend I think we got about 6 million for staying in league one, so we probably could lash out a bit.
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Jul 26, 2018 8:39:56 GMT
Found this really interesting.. There is a certain amount of educated guess work with regards to fees both given and received , but as a rule of thumb I think it is about right and the results are interesting.. Season 2008/09Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = £0 Season 2009/10
Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £1.2M Balance = +£1.2M Season 2010/11
Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £95k Balance = +£95k Season 2011/12Total transfer fees spent = £75K Total transfer fees received = £625k Balance = +£550K Season 2012/13Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £640k Balance = +£640k Season 2013/14Total transfer fees spent = £250K Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = -£250K Season 2014/15Total transfer fees spent = £50k Total transfer fees received = £200k Balance = +£150k Season 2015/16Total transfer fees spent = £200k Total transfer fees received = £0 Balance = -£200k Season 2016/17Total transfer fees spent = £35k Total transfer fees received = £350k Balance = +£315k Season 2017/18Total transfer fees spent = £500k Total transfer fees received = £450k Balance = -£50k Season 2018/19Total transfer fees spent = £0 Total transfer fees received = £940k Balance = +£940k Final balance on transfer activity over the last ten years = +£3.4M
As I say, there is an element of guess work in some of those workings out where fees were never released, but in almost all cases the fees were pretty much public information, so the guesses will not be too far off the mark but the figures will of course not be exact. Having said that, these figures are close enough to show the trend over the last ten years. Another interesting stat is that our record transfer fee paid is one of the lowest in the division at £375,000k, a fee of course paid over 25 years ago for one Andy Tilson. None of this was meant as 'board bashing' and I hope it is not taken as such, but it is clear that we have been reserved (some would say shown a lack of ambition) in the transfer market. The point of all of this is, wouldn't it be great if now we have already received nearly £1m in fees this summer, we went and smashed our transfer record for a real top top proven player? It is something we have never really done before whilst clubs around us do it every season. Over to you Mr Chairman.. We are £10m in debt and losing over £2m a season how exactly are we paying for this? Basically by the owners lending the club £2m each season, the ALQ's are clearly trying to change that model by the Mem improvements etc but wasn't the whole point of this thread to show NH and the ALQ's should be spending every penny they receive on transfers on new players not jist keeping the club afloat?
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Jul 26, 2018 8:41:30 GMT
How have we got nearly a million this summer when we only seem to have sold Harrison and he appears to have gone for £750m plus add ons in the future? I guess the big question is did DC know he was off, so that allowed him to beat Burton for Rodman, plus bring in Upson, Matthews and the new LB, or is his fee a bonus Doidge or Cole are the targets for me if DC's got decent money to spend I think we got about 6 million for staying in league one, so we probably could lash out a bit. I doubt it as that was well before the Sky TV money really kicked in.
|
|
|
Post by rovers5charlton5 on Jul 26, 2018 11:54:46 GMT
I think we got about 6 million for staying in league one, so we probably could lash out a bit. I doubt it as that was well before the Sky TV money really kicked in. How much do you reckon then?
|
|