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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 13:06:45 GMT
His comments on Boris were bleeped out for legal reasons and he described WTO as rather than taking back control, we say we give up. His bit on Johnson was hilarious. His description of leaving with no deal and on WTO terms was spot on.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 14:10:33 GMT
Oldie - Your calculation says that the EU is heading towards meltdown, and you think we should be part of that. but we aren't in the Eurozone Don't tell me, tell Oldie!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 14:18:34 GMT
but we aren't in the Eurozone Don't tell me, tell Oldie! 🤣🤣🏌️♂️
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Post by althepirate on Jun 3, 2019 14:40:43 GMT
Of course my friend a greater risk is we may beaten up and abused by the Liberal Dictators if we make a decision which is different to them. Oh yes I almost forgot we are all racists, nice group of people those Liberals Leaving out the silliness, Is leaving the EU a calculated risk? Yes/No? Which part of 'Of course my friend' didn't you understand? I should have used a comma though for clarity. I expect there will be a special place in hell for me now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 15:01:41 GMT
Leaving out the silliness, Is leaving the EU a calculated risk? Yes/No? Which part of 'Of course my friend' didn't you understand? I should have used a comma though for clarity. I expect there will be a special place in hell for me now. Agreed, proper punctuation would have helped in making your point. So, this calculation, could you help me out and point me to where I can read it? Ta
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Post by althepirate on Jun 3, 2019 17:24:59 GMT
Which part of 'Of course my friend' didn't you understand? I should have used a comma though for clarity. I expect there will be a special place in hell for me now. Agreed, proper punctuation would have helped in making your point. So, this calculation, could you help me out and point me to where I can read it? Ta As I've always said Oldie any calculations are just opinion so as yours are different than mine I see not point in having endless dicussion about Brexit, haven't we had enough already! As most people keep on saying 'We've voted we want it done now'
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 17:36:51 GMT
Agreed, proper punctuation would have helped in making your point. So, this calculation, could you help me out and point me to where I can read it? Ta As I've always said Oldie any calculations are just opinion so as yours are different than mine I see not point in having endless dicussion about Brexit, haven't we had enough already! As most people keep on saying 'We've voted we want it done now' Fair enough. You voted for something which has no foundation or quantifiable vision. Fair enough, tis your right to do so. Excuse the rest of us who would choose to vote based upon something else, and choose to resist an intellectual vacuum wrecking the economy for our kids.
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Post by althepirate on Jun 3, 2019 21:08:55 GMT
'You voted for something and the rest of us voted for something else'?? No 52% voted for Brexit 48% voted to remain FACT You lost FACT So called Liberals, in fact they are anything but, are going AGAINST the will of the people and the result of a democratic vote. FACT No human being can fortell the future FACT You, me and the 'experts' don't know what the future holds, we take calculated risks with our decision making FACT We should have respect for another's different opinion, not to be arrogant to think we know all the answers because we don't. We should accept reality and the reality of defeat when it happens to us. This is my opinion and just like your opinion should be respected.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 21:53:25 GMT
'You voted for something and the rest of us voted for something else'?? No 52% voted for Brexit 48% voted to remain FACT You lost FACT So called Liberals, in fact they are anything but, are going AGAINST the will of the people and the result of a democratic vote. FACT No human being can fortell the future FACT You, me and the 'experts' don't know what the future holds, we take calculated risks with our decision making FACT We should have respect for another's different opinion, not to be arrogant to think we know all the answers because we don't. We should accept reality and the reality of defeat when it happens to us. This is my opinion and just like your opinion should be respected. You have the right to your opinion, nobody is denying that. It's very hard to respect an opinion that you appear to be incapable of articulating let alone quantifying. You voted leave as did the majority as you correctly say. I respect the result, I do not respect why people voted leave as you did, for the reasons I just said. Fortunately we live in a Parliamentary Democracy which is representative of ALL voters. Like cyclical elections, policies change, governments get kicked out. As such I, most of the remainers I know, can never support policies which will materially harm our country. Btw, your constant harping on about liberals rather exposes an extremely limited understanding. Moving on. There is no point debating something you are incapable of explaining.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 3, 2019 22:56:39 GMT
'You voted for something and the rest of us voted for something else'?? No 52% voted for Brexit 48% voted to remain FACT You lost FACT So called Liberals, in fact they are anything but, are going AGAINST the will of the people and the result of a democratic vote. FACT No human being can fortell the future FACT You, me and the 'experts' don't know what the future holds, we take calculated risks with our decision making FACT We should have respect for another's different opinion, not to be arrogant to think we know all the answers because we don't. We should accept reality and the reality of defeat when it happens to us. This is my opinion and just like your opinion should be respected. Couple of issues, the 'we won, you lost' philosophy doesn't really work in politics, or indeed help. In a democracy the losing side needs to give consent otherwise it becomes a dictatorship. Experts don't know the future and neither do the laymen such as us. With a bit of research it can be narrowed down to unlikely, possible and probable. I have tried to explain my reasonings why I think the ecomomic damage of a no deal or WTO result more than outweighs the sovereignty issues. I have yet to really see a compelling economic arguement for it (£10pm VAT savings on fuel or slightly cheaper US trainers doesn't do it for me, sorry Nobby). Nor do I feel the democratic deficit is as bad as some suggest. I was disappointed with the 2016 result but willing to make it work. However that acceptance was abused by the Conservative Party refusing to compromise and rather than look at the vote leave promises and the closeness of the result, TM pandered to the extreme wing of her party to prove her credentials. If the result had been the other way, I would not expect us to look at Shengen membership or adoption of the Euro, so why go the other extreme which wasn't even on offer? Had the result meant something of the Norway model or EFTA membership then it would have been concluded years ago and we would have moved back to proper governance. Is it undemocratic to use democratic means to see whether the biggest decision in our post war history is still valid? For what it is worth I have always thought this should have been a two referendum process, firstly on the principle and then on the terms. JRM used to say the same.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 3, 2019 22:56:46 GMT
'You voted for something and the rest of us voted for something else'?? No 52% voted for Brexit 48% voted to remain FACT You lost FACT So called Liberals, in fact they are anything but, are going AGAINST the will of the people and the result of a democratic vote. FACT No human being can fortell the future FACT You, me and the 'experts' don't know what the future holds, we take calculated risks with our decision making FACT We should have respect for another's different opinion, not to be arrogant to think we know all the answers because we don't. We should accept reality and the reality of defeat when it happens to us. This is my opinion and just like your opinion should be respected. I respect yours far less than Oldies. Incidentally, what is it you believe you won? I've typed in 2+2 in to my calculator Al. I'm about to press the = sign. It's impossible to know what will happen next but isnt it exciting!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2019 3:56:22 GMT
'You voted for something and the rest of us voted for something else'?? No 52% voted for Brexit 48% voted to remain FACT You lost FACT So called Liberals, in fact they are anything but, are going AGAINST the will of the people and the result of a democratic vote. FACT No human being can fortell the future FACT You, me and the 'experts' don't know what the future holds, we take calculated risks with our decision making FACT We should have respect for another's different opinion, not to be arrogant to think we know all the answers because we don't. We should accept reality and the reality of defeat when it happens to us. This is my opinion and just like your opinion should be respected. Couple of issues, the 'we won, you lost' philosophy doesn't really work in politics, or indeed help. In a democracy the losing side needs to give consent otherwise it becomes a dictatorship. Experts don't know the future and neither do the laymen such as us. With a bit of research it can be narrowed down to unlikely, possible and probable. I have tried to explain my reasonings why I think the ecomomic damage of a no deal or WTO result more than outweighs the sovereignty issues. I have yet to really see a compelling economic arguement for it (£10pm VAT savings on fuel or slightly cheaper US trainers doesn't do it for me, sorry Nobby). Nor do I feel the democratic deficit is as bad as some suggest. I was disappointed with the 2016 result but willing to make it work. However that acceptance was abused by the Conservative Party refusing to compromise and rather than look at the vote leave promises and the closeness of the result, TM pandered to the extreme wing of her party to prove her credentials. If the result had been the other way, I would not expect us to look at Shengen membership or adoption of the Euro, so why go the other extreme which wasn't even on offer? Had the result meant something of the Norway model or EFTA membership then it would have been concluded years ago and we would have moved back to proper governance. Is it undemocratic to use democratic means to see whether the biggest decision in our post war history is still valid? For what it is worth I have always thought this should have been a two referendum process, firstly on the principle and then on the terms. JRM used to say the same. "If the result had been the other way, I would not expect us to look at Shengen membership or adoption of the Euro, so why go the other extreme which wasn't even on offer? " - Nor would there have been any debates in the House as to which parts of the EU we would leave as a compromise to the losing 40% ! That would never have happened. "Is it undemocratic to use democratic means to see whether the biggest decision in our post war history is still valid?" - It took 41 years for the British public to have a say on the CM/EEU/EU. Was that democratic or should we have had a referendum every five years just to confirm that we did indeed want to stay in the CM/EEU/EU?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2019 3:57:52 GMT
'You voted for something and the rest of us voted for something else'?? No 52% voted for Brexit 48% voted to remain FACT You lost FACT So called Liberals, in fact they are anything but, are going AGAINST the will of the people and the result of a democratic vote. FACT No human being can fortell the future FACT You, me and the 'experts' don't know what the future holds, we take calculated risks with our decision making FACT We should have respect for another's different opinion, not to be arrogant to think we know all the answers because we don't. We should accept reality and the reality of defeat when it happens to us. This is my opinion and just like your opinion should be respected. You have the right to your opinion, nobody is denying that. It's very hard to respect an opinion that you appear to be incapable of articulating let alone quantifying. You voted leave as did the majority as you correctly say. I respect the result, I do not respect why people voted leave as you did, for the reasons I just said. Fortunately we live in a Parliamentary Democracy which is representative of ALL voters. Like cyclical elections, policies change, governments get kicked out. As such I, most of the remainers I know, can never support policies which will materially harm our country. Btw, your constant harping on about liberals rather exposes an extremely limited understanding. Moving on. There is no point debating something you are incapable of explaining. Nice. Another of your great examples on how to win friends and influence people.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 4, 2019 5:26:02 GMT
Probably unintended, but I thought this statement from Al perfectly described the Leaver argument. "I completly agree Officer its exactly what I've been saying on this thread we have to come down on the side of reality because facing reality makes us stable even when we don't know what reality is." 🏌️♂️ On the contrary Oldie that is my point we don't know the reality of Brexit or anything else until we do it. Its Remainers who know it will be awful because the fortune tellers, (journalists) have been giving predictions (opinions) I personally face the reality that we don't know because human beings can't predict the future no matter what the 'experts' on both sides say. If I hold a brick in the air and predict that if I let go it will drop is that just an opinion then? By your logic any passing birds should probably take cover.
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Post by newmarketgas on Jun 4, 2019 7:02:29 GMT
On the contrary Oldie that is my point we don't know the reality of Brexit or anything else until we do it. Its Remainers who know it will be awful because the fortune tellers, (journalists) have been giving predictions (opinions) I personally face the reality that we don't know because human beings can't predict the future no matter what the 'experts' on both sides say. If I hold a brick in the air and predict that if I let go it will drop is that just an opinion then? By your logic any passing birds should probably take cover. The brick will land on your head ! The Lefty teacher forgot to tell you to hold it to one side, they were too busy telling the class how bad white men are. How is that for logic ?
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Post by althepirate on Jun 4, 2019 7:13:43 GMT
'You voted for something and the rest of us voted for something else'?? No 52% voted for Brexit 48% voted to remain FACT You lost FACT So called Liberals, in fact they are anything but, are going AGAINST the will of the people and the result of a democratic vote. FACT No human being can fortell the future FACT You, me and the 'experts' don't know what the future holds, we take calculated risks with our decision making FACT We should have respect for another's different opinion, not to be arrogant to think we know all the answers because we don't. We should accept reality and the reality of defeat when it happens to us. This is my opinion and just like your opinion should be respected. You have the right to your opinion, nobody is denying that. It's very hard to respect an opinion that you appear to be incapable of articulating let alone quantifying. You voted leave as did the majority as you correctly say. I respect the result, I do not respect why people voted leave as you did, for the reasons I just said. Fortunately we live in a Parliamentary Democracy which is representative of ALL voters. Like cyclical elections, policies change, governments get kicked out. As such I, most of the remainers I know, can never support policies which will materially harm our country. Btw, your constant harping on about liberals rather exposes an extremely limited understanding. Moving on. There is no point debating something you are incapable of explaining. Sorry Oldie as much you try to be condescending I afraid it's water off a ducks back to me.There is no point in debating with someone like you who can't face reality. The opposing side of your opinion will always be here whether or not you and the so called 'Liberals' continue with their insults and condescending behaviour.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 4, 2019 7:35:37 GMT
Couple of issues, the 'we won, you lost' philosophy doesn't really work in politics, or indeed help. In a democracy the losing side needs to give consent otherwise it becomes a dictatorship. Experts don't know the future and neither do the laymen such as us. With a bit of research it can be narrowed down to unlikely, possible and probable. I have tried to explain my reasonings why I think the ecomomic damage of a no deal or WTO result more than outweighs the sovereignty issues. I have yet to really see a compelling economic arguement for it (£10pm VAT savings on fuel or slightly cheaper US trainers doesn't do it for me, sorry Nobby). Nor do I feel the democratic deficit is as bad as some suggest. I was disappointed with the 2016 result but willing to make it work. However that acceptance was abused by the Conservative Party refusing to compromise and rather than look at the vote leave promises and the closeness of the result, TM pandered to the extreme wing of her party to prove her credentials. If the result had been the other way, I would not expect us to look at Shengen membership or adoption of the Euro, so why go the other extreme which wasn't even on offer? Had the result meant something of the Norway model or EFTA membership then it would have been concluded years ago and we would have moved back to proper governance. Is it undemocratic to use democratic means to see whether the biggest decision in our post war history is still valid? For what it is worth I have always thought this should have been a two referendum process, firstly on the principle and then on the terms. JRM used to say the same. "If the result had been the other way, I would not expect us to look at Shengen membership or adoption of the Euro, so why go the other extreme which wasn't even on offer? " - Nor would there have been any debates in the House as to which parts of the EU we would leave as a compromise to the losing 40% ! That would never have happened. "Is it undemocratic to use democratic means to see whether the biggest decision in our post war history is still valid?" - It took 41 years for the British public to have a say on the CM/EEU/EU. Was that democratic or should we have had a referendum every five years just to confirm that we did indeed want to stay in the CM/EEU/EU? The closeness of the result would have been a clear statement of 'thus far and no further'. No government would risk it again and would have been bound by legislation on further integration going to a referendum. It was also a vote to adopt Cameron's concessions (no sniggering at the back😀) so it did have some reductions in EU involvement. Don't forget that we had already secured opt outs in earlier treaties and had discretion on how EU directives were put into practice. Also don't forget that a vote to remain would not have ended the debate, Nigel Farage said the fight will go on when he thought it was a close win for remain. It would have emboldened him further much like the SNP in Scotland. For what it is worth I thought the Maastricht Treaty should have gone to a referendum, but that isn't how our democracy works and both main parties campaigned for it.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 4, 2019 7:43:34 GMT
If I hold a brick in the air and predict that if I let go it will drop is that just an opinion then? By your logic any passing birds should probably take cover. The brick will land on your head ! The Lefty teacher forgot to tell you to hold it to one side, they were too busy telling the class how bad white men are. How is that for logic ? But the lefty teacher would have needed to use a polystyrene brick and have the child wear a crash helmet and safety glasses (as dictated by EC Directive 123456 on Health and Safety grounds). If it was a right wing teacher the brick would be heavier on account of it being more dense. (This is simply continuing the humourous sterotyping as I don't actually believe people with right wing views are thick. It is such a shame I feel the need to explain this 🙁).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2019 8:03:53 GMT
The brick will land on your head ! The Lefty teacher forgot to tell you to hold it to one side, they were too busy telling the class how bad white men are. How is that for logic ? But the lefty teacher would have needed to use a polystyrene brick and have the child wear a crash helmet and safety glasses (as dictated by EC Directive 123456 on Health and Safety grounds). If it was a right wing teacher the brick would be heavier on account of it being more dense. (This is simply continuing the humourous sterotyping as I don't actually believe people with right wing views are thick. It is such a shame I feel the need to explain this 🙁). I know for a fact that Dianne Abbott is so dense that when she sits down in the HoC light does indeed bend around her !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2019 8:44:53 GMT
The brick will land on your head ! The Lefty teacher forgot to tell you to hold it to one side, they were too busy telling the class how bad white men are. How is that for logic ? But the lefty teacher would have needed to use a polystyrene brick and have the child wear a crash helmet and safety glasses (as dictated by EC Directive 123456 on Health and Safety grounds). If it was a right wing teacher the brick would be heavier on account of it being more dense. (This is simply continuing the humourous sterotyping as I don't actually believe people with right wing views are thick. It is such a shame I feel the need to explain this 🙁). Exactly. It's quite funny really isn't it.
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