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Post by trevorgas on Jun 6, 2019 13:56:15 GMT
nationalist. . NOUN . 1.a person who strongly identifies with their own nation and vigorously supports its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations. Thank you Simon. Small mercies that we find wheat amongst the chaff. I don't think it's the dictionary definition that's the issue it's the derogative labels that have been attached over the the past years that's the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 14:01:37 GMT
Thank you Simon. Small mercies that we find wheat amongst the chaff. I don't think it's the dictionary definition that's the issue it's the derogative labels that have been attached over the the past years that's the problem. Hi Clive I get that, it's a very valid point. But would you perhaps agree that some, if not many, of the leading lights in the leave movement, in Parliament or not, have used nationalism in trying to appeal to base instincts and to play on the genuine concerns and fears of many, to further their own specific agendas'?
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 6, 2019 14:09:06 GMT
I don't think it's the dictionary definition that's the issue it's the derogative labels that have been attached over the the past years that's the problem. Hi Clive I get that, it's a very valid point. But would you perhaps agree that some, if not many, of the leading lights in the leave movement, in Parliament or not, have used nationalism in trying to appeal to base instincts and to play on the genuine concerns and fears of many, to further their own specific agendas'? Hi there been away a while having a back op,recovering well which is a relief. I agree with you and that has been very unhelpful. I see nothing wrong in wanting the best for your Country and it's people indeed,I would suggest that is what we all want we just see different paths,so you could argue we are all Nationalist! !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 14:10:18 GMT
I don't think it's the dictionary definition that's the issue it's the derogative labels that have been attached over the the past years that's the problem. Hi Clive I get that, it's a very valid point. But would you perhaps agree that some, if not many, of the leading lights in the leave movement, in Parliament or not, have used nationalism in trying to appeal to base instincts and to play on the genuine concerns and fears of many, to further their own specific agendas'? Did not the Remain campaign appeal to base instincts with their vision of doom and gloom, job losses etc, to further their own specific agendas?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 14:11:15 GMT
Hi Clive I get that, it's a very valid point. But would you perhaps agree that some, if not many, of the leading lights in the leave movement, in Parliament or not, have used nationalism in trying to appeal to base instincts and to play on the genuine concerns and fears of many, to further their own specific agendas'? Hi there been away a while having a back op,recovering well which is a relief. I agree with you and that has been very unhelpful. I see nothing wrong in wanting the best for your Country and it's people indeed,I would suggest that is what we all want we just see different paths,so you could argue we are all Nationalist! ! Hope you are feeling better.
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 6, 2019 14:16:44 GMT
Hi there been away a while having a back op,recovering well which is a relief. I agree with you and that has been very unhelpful. I see nothing wrong in wanting the best for your Country and it's people indeed,I would suggest that is what we all want we just see different paths,so you could argue we are all Nationalist! ! Hope you are feeling better. I am Nobby thank you, post Op was a tad painful,then couldn't crap for a week which for a regular guy was excruciating, the relief of mafeking arrived yesterday so a sense of normality has returned. Was amused at your bike riding to work how's it going?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 16:42:02 GMT
Hi Clive I get that, it's a very valid point. But would you perhaps agree that some, if not many, of the leading lights in the leave movement, in Parliament or not, have used nationalism in trying to appeal to base instincts and to play on the genuine concerns and fears of many, to further their own specific agendas'? Did not the Remain campaign appeal to base instincts with their vision of doom and gloom, job losses etc, to further their own specific agendas? The remain campaign was dreadful. A combination of complacent arrogance and downright pathetic forward fiscal projections. But then, with Cameron and Osborne leading that, what else could be expected. However, is arrogance and complacency a "base" instinct appeal? I dont think so, it's just pathetic. What does qualify is Johnson suggesting that Turkey was about to join the EU and that 74M muslims would enjoy free movement to the UK. Or Farage, standing in front of a poster picturing a queue of immigrants with a strap line of "full up" Those examples are appealing to base instincts. Easy to do when housing in the UK is in short supply and expensive, when whole swathes of the UK community have not enjoyed the benefits of the economic expansion under globalisation, then saw the safety net within our social security system shredded under austerity, designed by the same incompetent who led the remain campaign, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Those of us who said this silly, there is no logic to leaving, are equally culpable. We never, ever, sold the benefits of EU membership. Now we pay the price.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 16:55:33 GMT
Did not the Remain campaign appeal to base instincts with their vision of doom and gloom, job losses etc, to further their own specific agendas? The remain campaign was dreadful. A combination of complacent arrogance and downright pathetic forward fiscal projections. But then, with Cameron and Osborne leading that, what else could be expected. However, is arrogance and complacency a "base" instinct appeal? I dont think so, it's just pathetic. What does qualify is Johnson suggesting that Turkey was about to join the EU and that 74M muslims would enjoy free movement to the UK. Or Farage, standing in front of a poster picturing a queue of immigrants with a strap line of "full up" Those examples are appealing to base instincts. Easy to do when housing in the UK is in short supply and expensive, when whole swathes of the UK community have not enjoyed the benefits of the economic expansion under globalisation, then saw the safety net within our social security system shredded under austerity, designed by the same incompetent who led the remain campaign, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Those of us who said this silly, there is no logic to leaving, are equally culpable. We never, ever, sold the benefits of EU membership. Now we pay the price. Well, even now I keep asking just what is the future for the EU. Just what is the endgame?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 17:01:24 GMT
QT tonight on BBC1 has five people who voted to Remain. The BBC are no longer trying to hide their bias. Time to end the Licence Tax and make the BBC pay for itself.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 17:19:05 GMT
The remain campaign was dreadful. A combination of complacent arrogance and downright pathetic forward fiscal projections. But then, with Cameron and Osborne leading that, what else could be expected. However, is arrogance and complacency a "base" instinct appeal? I dont think so, it's just pathetic. What does qualify is Johnson suggesting that Turkey was about to join the EU and that 74M muslims would enjoy free movement to the UK. Or Farage, standing in front of a poster picturing a queue of immigrants with a strap line of "full up" Those examples are appealing to base instincts. Easy to do when housing in the UK is in short supply and expensive, when whole swathes of the UK community have not enjoyed the benefits of the economic expansion under globalisation, then saw the safety net within our social security system shredded under austerity, designed by the same incompetent who led the remain campaign, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Those of us who said this silly, there is no logic to leaving, are equally culpable. We never, ever, sold the benefits of EU membership. Now we pay the price. Well, even now I keep asking just what is the future for the EU. Just what is the endgame? We can agree on that question. I think the schism is between the French Napoleonic Statism and the liberal free market Anglo Saxon instinct. The Germans are culpable here. Hiding behind us (the UK) on the political front yet at the same time dominating the ECB and imposing a draconian monetary squeeze which has led to anti democratic fiscal constraints at the individual State level. This will, in the end, be the undoing of the current status quo. As I said before, we could have our traditional role of shaping events..but we are out, drifting in a hostile environment. With a intellectually bankrupt political class at the fore.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 21:53:13 GMT
What have I missed?
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 6, 2019 22:19:34 GMT
Nothing mate its groundhog day 😂😂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 22:19:36 GMT
That you get nervous when ideas expressed take you out of your comfort zone?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 22:24:17 GMT
That you get nervous when ideas expressed take you out of your comfort zone? Na I knew that!
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Post by peterparker on Jun 7, 2019 5:32:39 GMT
So a Labour MP returned in Peterborough, beating Brexit Party into second place. Interesting how many Tory votes there still were in comparison to Brexit Party Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 6:13:06 GMT
So a Labour MP returned in Peterborough, beating Brexit Party into second place. Interesting how many Tory votes there still were in comparison to Brexit Party Not the great breakthrough then.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 7, 2019 6:14:24 GMT
Analysis Peterborough by-election: Nigel Farage's silence is significant after Brexit Party fails to win seat in parliament The Brexit Party came within just under 700 votes of pulling off a by-election victory, and there are no prizes for coming second.
By Jon Craig, chief political correspondent, in Peterborough
For Nigel Farage, it was a night that began with dinner in a five-star hotel and ended with a bitter taste.
His Brexit Party came within just under 700 votes of pulling off a sensational by-election victory in Peterborough.
But in politics - as in everything else - there are no prizes for coming second and it's Labour and Jeremy Corbyn who are celebrating victory.
After a turbulent few weeks for the Labour leader, Lisa Forbes' win has earned Mr Corbyn some respite in his battle with the Remainers in his party demanding a second referendum. Peterborough by-election result Image: Peterborough by-election result
But not for long. Mr Corbyn's critics in his party will claim that this, after all, was a Labour held-seat and anything other than a victory for his party should have been unthinkable. Advertisement
But these are not normal times in British politics and a Brexit Party victory looked on the cards throughout much of the by-election campaign. NEWPORT, WALES - APRIL 05: Labour party leader Jeremy Corbyn speaks at the Pill Millennium Centre beside Ruth Jones, the new MP for Newport West on April 05, 2019 in Newport, Wales. The Newport West by-election was triggered following the death of Labour's Paul Flynn who held the seat since 1987 (Photo by Anthony Devlin/Anthony Devlin/Getty Images) Image: After a turbulent few weeks for the Labour leader, Lisa Forbes' win has earned Jeremy Corbyn some respite
The party's spectacular 32% showing in the European elections provoked blind panic among Tory MPs and looks like propelling Boris Johnson, the only politician the Tories have who compares with Mr Farage's rock star status, to 10 Downing Street. More from Politics
During polling day, bookmakers had Mr Farage's party at 1/5 and Labour 7/2, though later in the day they shortened Labour's odds to 2/1. Labour's new MP for Peterborough Lisa Forbes has apologised for liking antisemitic Facebook post
But I've been at many a by-election count where the mood among the party activists suddenly changes. And this was one of them.
Suddenly, the Labour activists at the Kingsgate Conference Centre became confident of victory and were predicting a win. Before long they were jubilant.
Mr Farage and his cronies, however, were strangely - and unusually for them - subdued and privately admitting they were going to come second.
None more so than the Brexit Party leader himself, normally ebullient, loud, raucous and brash... but not this time. Labour pips Brexit Party to win Peterborough by-election Labour pips Brexit Party to win Peterborough by-election
Mr Farage had spent the evening dining at the George Hotel at Stamford, one of the finest dining establishments on the A1, according to locals here.
The restaurant serves rare roast beef carved at the table and - no doubt - a fine claret to Mr Farage's liking.
But by the time he arrived at the count, the prospect of defeat was clearly too much to swallow. He evaded journalists waiting for him at the front entrance and came in by a side door. Nigel Farage, Brexit Party Image: Nigel Farage had spent the evening dining at the George Hotel at Stamford
He then hid in the inappropriately named Welcome Lounge and had a narrow escape when he left to go to the gents and was almost pursued inside by journalists and camera crews.
He then left the count before the declaration without giving any interviews, leaving his defeated candidate, millionaire former Tory donor Mike Greene, to face the media.
But Mr Greene was defiant in defeat, blaming the Tory vote holding up, a lack of voting data and the Labour Party's decision to hold the by-election quickly.
For the Tories, still panicking over the Brexit Party polling 32% in the European elections, the recriminations will continue.
Mr Johnson, who this week told Tory MPs the party faces "extinction" and an "existential crisis" if the UK doesn't leave the EU on 31 October, will almost certainly romp to victory in the leadership election now.
So once again Mr Farage has spooked the Tories: first when his UKIP triumph in the 2014 European election persuaded David Cameron to hold a referendum and now frightening Tory MPs into backing Boris.
But despite coming tantalisingly close to victory in Peterborough, Mr Farage's silence was significant. He will be concerned that if his new party couldn't win here, where 61% of voters voted Leave in 2016, where can they win?
Something to chew over next time is enjoying five-star roast beef and claret. Sponsored Links
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 6:40:47 GMT
Can't believe the Tories picked up so many votes! The voting numbers are interesting. 2017 GE:- Labour - 22,950 Tory - 22,343 Lib/Dem - 1,597 In total 47,738
2019 By-Election:- Labour - 10,484 Tory - 7,243 Brexit - 9,801 Lib/Dem - 4,159 In total approx. 33,000
So there are approx. 14 thousand missing voters compared to the last GE. Voter apathy after the recent EU elections? The Brexit Party picked up 16,000+ votes at the EU elections. Was it a case of voter overconfidence? But both Labour and Tory votes collapsing. Labour will claim victory, but their vote is over 50% less than the GE. Don't think that is much to crow about.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 7, 2019 6:45:05 GMT
Can't believe the Tories picked up so many votes! The voting numbers are interesting. 2017 GE:- Labour - 22,950 Tory - 22,343 Lib/Dem - 1,597 In total 47,738 2019 By-Election:- Labour - 10,484 Tory - 7,243 Brexit - 9,801 Lib/Dem - 4,159 In total approx. 33,000 So there are approx. 14 thousand missing voters compared to the last GE. Voter apathy after the recent EU elections? The Brexit Party picked up 16,000+ votes at the EU elections. Was it a case of voter overconfidence? But both Labour and Tory votes collapsing. Labour will claim victory, but their vote is over 50% less than the GE. Don't think that is much to crow about. Got to be disappointing for Nigel though. Does it show though that Brexit Party need a bit more than a Brexit policy to get elected outside of EU elections?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 6:52:31 GMT
Can't believe the Tories picked up so many votes! The voting numbers are interesting. 2017 GE:- Labour - 22,950 Tory - 22,343 Lib/Dem - 1,597 In total 47,738 2019 By-Election:- Labour - 10,484 Tory - 7,243 Brexit - 9,801 Lib/Dem - 4,159 In total approx. 33,000 So there are approx. 14 thousand missing voters compared to the last GE. Voter apathy after the recent EU elections? The Brexit Party picked up 16,000+ votes at the EU elections. Was it a case of voter overconfidence? But both Labour and Tory votes collapsing. Labour will claim victory, but their vote is over 50% less than the GE. Don't think that is much to crow about. Got to be disappointing for Nigel though. Does it show though that Brexit Party need a bit more than a Brexit policy to get elected outside of EU elections? Disappointing for the Brexit Party, yes, but I understand that this seat was number 201 on their target list. Don't forget the party is literally weeks old. They are having to build their whole infrastructure from scratch. They will have to produce policy and I expect that that is an ongoing process right now. I also don't think they will produce a Manifesto. The Tories and Labour have killed off that idea as we all now know that pledges made in a Manifesto are totally worthless. I expect the Brexit Party will do 'something different' in that respect.
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