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Post by Officer Barbrady on Feb 7, 2019 15:09:39 GMT
They quite obviously didn't because they have since said the stadium was going to cost more than they had originally thought. Is it possible that the Council was the issue rather than UWE, the owners or finance? how do you mean mate?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 7, 2019 15:17:52 GMT
Is it possible that the Council was the issue rather than UWE, the owners or finance? how do you mean mate? Well for years we have struggled to get anything done. Weve had plans galore and have had different people running/owning the club. There have been reported issues with Sainsbury's, finance, nimbys etc and we all know how hard it can be to get anything done in Bristol. I'm not defending the owners at all, but I'm just saying we can't say 100% that this is their fault as we simply don't know. It could be them or any of the myriad of other problems we've had in the past.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Feb 7, 2019 15:26:28 GMT
You can blame Hewlett Packard for that one So what your basically saying is that when it got to the point of signing all the paperwork the printer ran out of ink? It is my understanding and i could be wrong (most times in fact) that the land we wanted to build on at the UWE was previously owned by HP and was "Donated" the UWE for Educational Use. Now the original design for the UWE stadium included lots of Educational use (Rooms, Running Track, Student Union Bar, car parks,etc). When our New owners wanted to negotiate the deal which removed these items, the land became non educational use... Maybe HP come back and said give us the development value of the land.... etc Just Maybe this could have been the cause of the breakdown of the deal ? No Hard evidence of this, just putting 2 & 2 together and maybe getting 4.0
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Post by toddy1953 on Feb 7, 2019 15:40:21 GMT
Well for years we have struggled to get anything done. Weve had plans galore and have had different people running/owning the club. There have been reported issues with Sainsbury's, finance, nimbys etc and we all know how hard it can be to get anything done in Bristol. I'm not defending the owners at all, but I'm just saying we can't say 100% that this is their fault as we simply don't know. It could be them or any of the myriad of other problems we've had in the past. In this case though we had achieved PP for the stadium. SH in Aug '17 seemed to lay the 'blame' with UWE. But Wael also said around that time we needed to obtain further PP. He never said why. I don't know why someone doesn't state the reasons (like the Scunthorpe guy) that way it should stop all the speculation & we can all move on. I suppose if they did there would be someone on here saying that's not the real reason.
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Post by Jomo on Feb 7, 2019 16:43:23 GMT
So what your basically saying is that when it got to the point of signing all the paperwork the printer ran out of ink? It is my understanding and i could be wrong (most times in fact) that the land we wanted to build on at the UWE was previously owned by HP and was "Donated" the UWE for Educational Use. Now the original design for the UWE stadium included lots of Educational use (Rooms, Running Track, Student Union Bar, car parks,etc). When our New owners wanted to negotiate the deal which removed these items, the land became non educational use... Maybe HP come back and said give us the development value of the land.... etc Just Maybe this could have been the cause of the breakdown of the deal ? No Hard evidence of this, just putting 2 & 2 together and maybe getting 4.0 Seems plausible to me. Whether or not the fact that much of the internal infrastructure of the planned development was for educational use, was even a majorly bad thing for the club is something I am not sure of. Of course for the owners who want to maximise sustainability of the club, the revenue streams of the stadium should be geared towards the club, whereas presumably educational use would have been primarily beneficial to UWE. I just think if that were the reason the deal broke down it's a bit odd still, as in my mind we're much worse off being in many more years of limbo and spending loads more money and effort on alternative plans, when if we were successful in the UWE in the first few years, we could have renegotiated revenue streams then? I say all this as someone who knows virtually nothing about this sort of business though, so I'm quite happy to be shot down.
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Post by lpgas on Feb 7, 2019 18:54:34 GMT
Well for years we have struggled to get anything done. Weve had plans galore and have had different people running/owning the club. There have been reported issues with Sainsbury's, finance, nimbys etc and we all know how hard it can be to get anything done in Bristol. I'm not defending the owners at all, but I'm just saying we can't say 100% that this is their fault as we simply don't know. It could be them or any of the myriad of other problems we've had in the past. In this case though we had achieved PP for the stadium. SH in Aug '17 seemed to lay the 'blame' with UWE. But Wael also said around that time we needed to obtain further PP. He never said why. I don't know why someone doesn't state the reasons (like the Scunthorpe guy) that way it should stop all the speculation & we can all move on. I suppose if they did there would be someone on here saying that's not the real reason. Because they wanted to buy the land for the stadium and another strip of land for a retail and hotel development but UWE said no
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Post by lpgas on Feb 7, 2019 18:59:39 GMT
It is my understanding and i could be wrong (most times in fact) that the land we wanted to build on at the UWE was previously owned by HP and was "Donated" the UWE for Educational Use. Now the original design for the UWE stadium included lots of Educational use (Rooms, Running Track, Student Union Bar, car parks,etc). When our New owners wanted to negotiate the deal which removed these items, the land became non educational use... Maybe HP come back and said give us the development value of the land.... etc Just Maybe this could have been the cause of the breakdown of the deal ? No Hard evidence of this, just putting 2 & 2 together and maybe getting 4.0 Seems plausible to me. Whether or not the fact that much of the internal infrastructure of the planned development was for educational use, was even a majorly bad thing for the club is something I am not sure of. Of course for the owners who want to maximise sustainability of the club, the revenue streams of the stadium should be geared towards the club, whereas presumably educational use would have been primarily beneficial to UWE. I just think if that were the reason the deal broke down it's a bit odd still, as in my mind we're much worse off being in many more years of limbo and spending loads more money and effort on alternative plans, when if we were successful in the UWE in the first few years, we could have renegotiated revenue streams then? I say all this is someone who knows virtually nothing about this sort of business though, so I'm quite happy to be shot down. You are correct. Uwe wanted income from the car park and the drink and sales outlet. Also the stadium had to be called the UWE Community stadium. Higgs had agreed to 2 x teaching rooms, a gym, and a creche for use for students. Dwayne said that primarily it was a football stadium and if UWE wanted anything them they would have to pay for it, which the said yes and then no. The one thing they wouldn't give up is the name of the stadium, which is a big money earner if you can get a good sponsor
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Post by womble on Feb 7, 2019 21:22:13 GMT
Well for years we have struggled to get anything done. Weve had plans galore and have had different people running/owning the club. There have been reported issues with Sainsbury's, finance, nimbys etc and we all know how hard it can be to get anything done in Bristol. I'm not defending the owners at all, but I'm just saying we can't say 100% that this is their fault as we simply don't know. It could be them or any of the myriad of other problems we've had in the past. The number of planning applications both Rovers and City have had rejected by Bristol City Council is precisely zero. Obviously UWE is in South Glos but it already had planning permission. The problem Rovers have always had, is insufficient money to realise their stadium dreams. Every scheme has failed for lack of money - arguably UWE might have succeeded if we had owned the land, but we shall probably never know.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Feb 7, 2019 22:26:13 GMT
Carstairs must be rubbing himself raw right about now
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 7, 2019 22:33:35 GMT
Well for years we have struggled to get anything done. Weve had plans galore and have had different people running/owning the club. There have been reported issues with Sainsbury's, finance, nimbys etc and we all know how hard it can be to get anything done in Bristol. I'm not defending the owners at all, but I'm just saying we can't say 100% that this is their fault as we simply don't know. It could be them or any of the myriad of other problems we've had in the past. The number of planning applications both Rovers and City have had rejected by Bristol City Council is precisely zero. Obviously UWE is in South Glos but it already had planning permission. The problem Rovers have always had, is insufficient money to realise their stadium dreams. Every scheme has failed for lack of money - arguably UWE might have succeeded if we had owned the land, but we shall probably never know. What is your take in the Carsons Road plan? It was rejected on tbe grounds it was green belt but from my recollection we had a 50% deposit or so after the Martyn and Penrice transfers and the Leyland Daf Trophy run (about £2m in total). Could we have managed the extra?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 22:52:10 GMT
So what your basically saying is that when it got to the point of signing all the paperwork the printer ran out of ink? It is my understanding and i could be wrong (most times in fact) that the land we wanted to build on at the UWE was previously owned by HP and was "Donated" the UWE for Educational Use. Now the original design for the UWE stadium included lots of Educational use (Rooms, Running Track, Student Union Bar, car parks,etc). When our New owners wanted to negotiate the deal which removed these items, the land became non educational use... Maybe HP come back and said give us the development value of the land.... etc Just Maybe this could have been the cause of the breakdown of the deal ? No Hard evidence of this, just putting 2 & 2 together and maybe getting 4.0 Uh Oh.... By my reckoning Henbury you have said this twice now. We all know what that means!
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Post by womble on Feb 7, 2019 23:18:11 GMT
The number of planning applications both Rovers and City have had rejected by Bristol City Council is precisely zero. Obviously UWE is in South Glos but it already had planning permission. The problem Rovers have always had, is insufficient money to realise their stadium dreams. Every scheme has failed for lack of money - arguably UWE might have succeeded if we had owned the land, but we shall probably never know. What is your take in the Carsons Road plan? It was rejected on tbe grounds it was green belt but from my recollection we had a 50% deposit or so after the Martyn and Penrice transfers and the Leyland Daf Trophy run (about £2m in total). Could we have managed the extra? Quite small at 12,000 capacity as I remember, and in what is now South Glos. It might have been a goer with a sympathetic council, but building a football stadium on green belt land is always going to be a tough ask and in retrospect I don’t think that site ever stood much chance. I seem to recall the chair of the council (may have been Northavon at the time), saying negative things about football stadia.
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 8, 2019 0:08:29 GMT
What is your take in the Carsons Road plan? It was rejected on tbe grounds it was green belt but from my recollection we had a 50% deposit or so after the Martyn and Penrice transfers and the Leyland Daf Trophy run (about £2m in total). Could we have managed the extra? Quite small at 12,000 capacity as I remember, and in what is now South Glos. It might have been a goer with a sympathetic council, but building a football stadium on green belt land is always going to be a tough ask and in retrospect I don’t think that site ever stood much chance. I seem to recall the chair of the council (may have been Northavon at the time), saying negative things about football stadia. During the promotion celebrations I was stood outside the offices on the high street in Kingswood with many others singing "all we are saying, is give us a ground." The local MP was Rob Heyward and he was against it too. Originally 12,000 it was reduced to 11,000 as a planning sweetner. Could have been just right being just off the then proposed ring road and may have tempted Gerry to stay or Martin O'Neill to join from Wycombe, who was our first choice to replace him. Oh well, one of several possibilities lost for whatever reason.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 0:24:32 GMT
It is my understanding and i could be wrong (most times in fact) that the land we wanted to build on at the UWE was previously owned by HP and was "Donated" the UWE for Educational Use. Now the original design for the UWE stadium included lots of Educational use (Rooms, Running Track, Student Union Bar, car parks,etc). When our New owners wanted to negotiate the deal which removed these items, the land became non educational use... Maybe HP come back and said give us the development value of the land.... etc Just Maybe this could have been the cause of the breakdown of the deal ? No Hard evidence of this, just putting 2 & 2 together and maybe getting 4.0 Uh Oh.... By my reckoning Henbury you have said this twice now. We all know what that means! Yea bollocks.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Feb 11, 2019 12:07:28 GMT
Pretty sure SH also suggested it cost a lot more to run a football league club than the family realised. He did. The one thing that has always intrigued me as why the sale of Gillingham FC did not succeed, when he always said he would consider offers for them. Now where is Mr Scally's phone number? Simple answer, their owner had second thoughts and decided he didn’t want to sell
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Post by baggins on Feb 11, 2019 12:09:24 GMT
He did. The one thing that has always intrigued me as why the sale of Gillingham FC did not succeed, when he always said he would consider offers for them. Now where is Mr Scally's phone number? Simple answer, their owner had second thoughts and decided he didn’t want to sell I think it was more a case of he did want to sell but still wanted a say in the running of the Club.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Feb 11, 2019 12:15:58 GMT
Simple answer, their owner had second thoughts and decided he didn’t want to sell I think it was more a case of he did want to sell but still wanted a say in the running of the Club. Yes, that could also be the case.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 12:23:32 GMT
He did. The one thing that has always intrigued me as why the sale of Gillingham FC did not succeed, when he always said he would consider offers for them. Now where is Mr Scally's phone number? F**k Scally, the bloke is an arrogant clown! I’ve met and spoken to him at length and found him to be a person who cares deeply about his club.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Feb 11, 2019 12:45:03 GMT
F**k Scally, the bloke is an arrogant clown! I’ve met and spoken to him at length and found him to be a person who cares deeply about his club. Very much like Wael and his family
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 12:45:58 GMT
I’ve met and spoken to him at length and found him to be a person who cares deeply about his club. Very much like Wael and his family I’ve only meant Wael but yes I would agree with that assessment of him.
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