Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 21:18:34 GMT
I thought maybe there would be an investigation into what happened in East Africa in the 1950s early 60s. You would. Yep Opening both eyes can lead to a degree of clarity |
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,548 
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Oct 7, 2018 22:16:25 GMT
I don't know how he sleeps at night after the death and destruction he has caused in the middle east, but then that is psychopaths for you, no conscience. Even John Prescott now admits the war was illegal, despite supporting it at the time. Writing in The Sunday Mirror he said: "I will live with the decision of going to war and its catastrophic consequences for the rest of my life. In 2004, the UN secretary-general Kofi Annan said that as regime change was the prime aim of the Iraq War, it was illegal. With great sadness and anger, I now believe him to be right."  
Yes, Saddam wasn't a nice person, he killed his own people, but TBF to him he did keep that part of the middle East relativly calm.
He kept the Sunnis & Shias' at peace. Also under him Iraq & Iran were relative safe place's.
Now look at it!!
Also since his death, an estimated 120,000 Iraqis have died!!
I'm sure you've read Oldie's post, but just to add that Saddam invaded Iran and triggered a long, bloody war which included the use of poison gas. Don't forget he also invaded Kuwait, moved towards Saudi Arabia, drained the swamps around Basra to curtail the Marsh Arabs and threatened the Kurds in the north. He was a Sunni Muslim and kept order though the use of intimidation and fear, alienating the majority Shia population. I'd describe it more of keeping the lid on a pressure cooker. We cocked up big time, but things were going to explode at some point. |
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,548
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Oct 7, 2018 22:22:24 GMT
Pirate The West has been interfering in Iran since 1900. It's no wonder we are held with suspicion I think we started during the First World War and then again during the Second. Prior to that much of the conflict in Iran/Persia was with the Russians and Ottomans. I did read one article though that for some areas of Iran and Afghanistan, when thing go wrong or missing, the locals say "that was the English who did that." |
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,548
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Oct 7, 2018 22:27:19 GMT
Pirate, just to understand, is it the current Israeli government under Netanyahu you don't like or Isreali policy towards the Palestinians?
Would you support the two state solution as previously proposed or what would you like to see instead?
|
|
|
|
Post by aghast on Oct 7, 2018 23:19:57 GMT
If you answer the question, go on, justify your statement that Iran was safer "under" Saddam. You said it.
As I said, "you seem to disagree with practically every post on here for some reason."
And also, as I said, it looks like you are gonna leave it just like that, without at least telling us all why my post was " one of the most ill informed posts you have ever read on here"
At least back this up, rather than just disagreeing with every post on here.
You just look like a WUM otherwise.
To be fair, oldie's question is crying out for an answer. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 23:26:52 GMT
Yes, Saddam wasn't a nice person, he killed his own people, but TBF to him he did keep that part of the middle East relativly calm.
He kept the Sunnis & Shias' at peace. Also under him Iraq & Iran were relative safe place's.
Now look at it!!
Also since his death, an estimated 120,000 Iraqis have died!!
I'm sure you've read Oldie's post, but just to add that Saddam invaded Iran and triggered a long, bloody war which included the use of poison gas. Don't forget he also invaded Kuwait, moved towards Saudi Arabia, drained the swamps around Basra to curtail the Marsh Arabs and threatened the Kurds in the north. He was a Sunni Muslim and kept order though the use of intimidation and fear, alienating the majority Shia population. I'd describe it more of keeping the lid on a pressure cooker. We cocked up big time, but things were going to explode at some point. I am sure he didn't Stuart, it would have exposed to much about his knowledge of the area. Btw, it was the Brits, who interfered in Iran the most upon the discovery of oil there. There is a very good book which covers this, although documents subsequent American interference mostly, called The Eagle & The Lion. Prof Bill of Yale and published by them. 1982 I think. What we did is shameful. Nothing new there is there. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 23:28:56 GMT
As I said, "you seem to disagree with practically every post on here for some reason."
And also, as I said, it looks like you are gonna leave it just like that, without at least telling us all why my post was " one of the most ill informed posts you have ever read on here"
At least back this up, rather than just disagreeing with every post on here.
You just look like a WUM otherwise.
To be fair, oldie's question is crying out for an answer. Amazing Aghast isn't it. |
|
pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,461
|
Post by pirate on Oct 8, 2018 6:51:16 GMT
Pirate, just to understand, is it the current Israeli government under Netanyahu you don't like or Isreali policy towards the Palestinians? Would you support the two state solution as previously proposed or what would you like to see instead? I don't like the far right Israeli government under Netanyahu or the Israeli policy towards the Palestinians, but sadly there isn't really much of an alternative. Every government they have had has been extremist to some extent and has been led by terrorists and war criminals as far as I'm concerned. www.thehypertexts.com/Israeli%20Prime%20Ministers%20Terrorists%20Nakba.htmAs for the two state solution, that obviously is dead in the water and has been for a long time due to the illegal settlement expansion which has increased at pace in recent years. Trump for example still talks about a two state solution, but his son-in-law Jared Kushner donates money to the illegal Beit El settlement and other settlements...and this is the man tasked with negotiating Middle East peace? What a joke. Trump's Ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, has also expressed support for and funded construction of Israeli settlements A democratic one state solution with equal rights for all citizens would be my suggestion, however, we now have the recently passed racist 'Nation State Law'... electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/israel-passes-law-entrenching-apartheidwww.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/israel-nation-state-law-parallels-nazi-nuremberg-laws-180725084739536.htmlAmnesty International said, “By passing the nation-state bill #Israel has entrenched & exacerbated 70 yrs of inequality & discrimination against non-Jews in a law with constitutional status. “#Palestinians (~20% of Israel’s pop.) are now officially 2nd class citizens. #Israel must uphold human rights for all!"  |
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,548
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Oct 8, 2018 8:02:12 GMT
Pirate, just to understand, is it the current Israeli government under Netanyahu you don't like or Isreali policy towards the Palestinians? Would you support the two state solution as previously proposed or what would you like to see instead? I don't like the far right Israeli government under Netanyahu or the Israeli policy towards the Palestinians, but sadly there isn't really much of an alternative. Every government they have had has been extremist to some extent and has been led by terrorists and war criminals as far as I'm concerned. www.thehypertexts.com/Israeli%20Prime%20Ministers%20Terrorists%20Nakba.htmAs for the two state solution, that obviously is dead in the water and has been for a long time due to the illegal settlement expansion which has increased at pace in recent years. Trump for example still talks about a two state solution, but his son-in-law Jared Kushner donates money to the illegal Beit El settlement and other settlements...and this is the man tasked with negotiating Middle East peace? What a joke. Trump's Ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, has also expressed support for and funded construction of Israeli settlements A democratic one state solution with equal rights for all citizens would be my suggestion, however, we now have the recently passed racist 'Nation State Law'... electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/israel-passes-law-entrenching-apartheidwww.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/israel-nation-state-law-parallels-nazi-nuremberg-laws-180725084739536.htmlAmnesty International said, “By passing the nation-state bill #Israel has entrenched & exacerbated 70 yrs of inequality & discrimination against non-Jews in a law with constitutional status. “#Palestinians (~20% of Israel’s pop.) are now officially 2nd class citizens. #Israel must uphold human rights for all!"  Not a lot I would disagree with there, for me Israel doesn't help itself, especially with the settlement expansions. Tom Clancy of all people wrote about Isreal having to be genuinely democratic in his novel, The Sum of All Fears, and integrate the Palastinians more fully. During the 1990s, the US had a great deal of leverage with both sides, sadly that has now been eroded and probably lost for a generation or two. Having said that, it does work both ways so I can't see Israel ever doing that unilaterally whilst there are nations and other actors who see it their goal to destroy Israel. Perhaps this is a lesson to those of the far right that by demonising someone so much that they become what you feared they were already and then live in a world of constant paranoia. It takes statesmen to bring peace and I can't see anyone on either side willing to step up. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 8:57:45 GMT
Not much to disagree with here on Israel and Palestine.
In terms of Stuart's statement that it's going to require statesmanship to solve this problem, I think that horse has bolted.
The Middle East is more riven with paranoia and destructive nationalism now than it ever was. Internationally, previous countries with influence in the region, primarily the UK and France, are now irrelevant and the USA has disintegrated into myopic isolationism under Trump.
Where is Statesmanship going to come from?
The liberal opportunity has gone and we are back to angry nationalism.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 10:16:46 GMT
I keep saying it, but from 1948 to 1967, The Gaza Strip was under Egyptian control. The West Bank was under Jordanian control. Why didn't they create the Palestinian State during this period?
|
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 8, 2018 10:56:25 GMT
I keep saying it, but from 1948 to 1967, The Gaza Strip was under Egyptian control. The West Bank was under Jordanian control. Why didn't they create the Palestinian State during this period? Didn't the Palestinians have a perfectly good state before we decided to create Israel? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 11:30:21 GMT
I keep saying it, but from 1948 to 1967, The Gaza Strip was under Egyptian control. The West Bank was under Jordanian control. Why didn't they create the Palestinian State during this period? Didn't the Palestinians have a perfectly good state before we decided to create Israel? Nope. Even after Israel was created, why did the Arabs not declare the Palestinian Two-State, or even one of them? I'll answer that question. It's because the Palestinians are the Pikeys of the Arab World. The Arabs don't give two shits for the Palestinians. They are just a useful stick to beat the Israelis with. 3....2....1.....howls of outrage..... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 12:04:57 GMT
Didn't the Palestinians have a perfectly good state before we decided to create Israel? Nope. Even after Israel was created, why did the Arabs not declare the Palestinian Two-State, or even one of them? I'll answer that question. It's because the Palestinians are the Pikeys of the Arab World. The Arabs don't give two shits for the Palestinians. They are just a useful stick to beat the Israelis with. 3....2....1.....howls of outrage..... In the spirit of being nice I won't go after this post. The truth is of course that the West imposed ridiculous borders around areas for administrative convenience, like we did in Africa. Syria, Iraq the current definition of the Arabian peninsula did not exist a&e we know it today. Mesopotamia did, and it was tribes, many nomadic, who ruled certain areas. Of course that didn't suit the Brits or the French who wanted to carve it up into Administrative areas (countries) in order to control the oil reserves. They didn't manage with that with Iran and when Mossadeque was democratically elected there (Shah into exile) the CIA and the Brits organised a coup in 1952 and had him deposed. Shah was brought back from Paris and reinstated as puppet to the Americans. Cue 1979. The whole history of the middle East is riddled with western malevolent interference and suppression, so to call any one of its peoples "Pikeys" is deeply offensive. What does it make us...Nazis?? |
|
|
|
Post by South Stand Ultra on Oct 8, 2018 13:32:34 GMT
To be fair, oldie's question is crying out for an answer. Amazing Aghast isn't it.
Yep, its almost as amazing as not wanting to elaborate how my post is one of the most ill informed posts you have ever read on here.
Totaly amazing indeed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 13:39:19 GMT
Yep, its almost as amazing as not wanting to elaborate how my post is one of the most ill informed posts you have ever read on here.
Totaly amazing indeed.
As Aghast suggests, answer the question. That will tell you all you need to know. |
|
|
|
Post by South Stand Ultra on Oct 8, 2018 13:57:19 GMT
Yep, its almost as amazing as not wanting to elaborate how my post is one of the most ill informed posts you have ever read on here.
Totaly amazing indeed.
As Aghast suggests, answer the question. That will tell you all you need to know.
I asked you first yesterday. If you answer it as I asked you first, I'll happilly answer your question.
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,548
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Oct 8, 2018 14:05:04 GMT
As Aghast suggests, answer the question. That will tell you all you need to know.
I asked you first yesterday. If you answer it as I asked you first, I'll happilly answer your question.
I tried to explain. Did you just get Iran and Syria mixed up? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 14:06:26 GMT
As Aghast suggests, answer the question. That will tell you all you need to know.
I asked you first yesterday. If you answer it as I asked you first, I'll happilly answer your question.
Ill informed. If you know anything of the middle East you could not possibly claim that Iran was a safer place under Saddam. You have already been given the answers why by Stuart, besides myself. So why did you claim it? I believe you did because you ill informed. So go on |
|
|
|
Post by Officer Barbrady on Oct 8, 2018 14:52:20 GMT
If you answer the question, go on, justify your statement that Iran was safer "under" Saddam. You said it.
As I said, "you seem to disagree with practically every post on here for some reason."
And also, as I said, it looks like you are gonna leave it just like that, without at least telling us all why my post was " one of the most ill informed posts you have ever read on here"
At least back this up, rather than just disagreeing with every post on here.
You just look like a WUM otherwise.
to be fair I'd also like to know what you meant by that. How was Iran safer under Hussain? |
|
