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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 8:39:24 GMT
Not sure I understand the Ollie part - he wasn't a then-22-year-old international and club captain, was he? Nor is he at the same level. What would I have done though? Probably sold him summer 2017. He'd signed a new contract in 2016 and renewed in January 2018, which to me signals he signed a two-year deal in 2016 to run until 2018. So I would've sold him halfway through that contract, when his sale value was at its highest point, after two back-to-back promotions and our highest finish in 17 years. And he should've probably left then but unfortunately it sounds like, like DC, he was sold a pipedream. But at that point in 2017 is when he should've been eyeing the next career step. Of course, all my opinion but that's what I'd have done/think he should've done. FWIW, I could envisage Ollie staying here for most/all of his professional career if both clubs stay at a competent level. Lockyer wasn't a capped international player two years ago. The fact he's been club captain in that time and started week in week out will have massively progressed him. What makes you think a bigger club was interested during that time and would have paid to take him off our hands? The jury is still out whether he's good enough for the Championship or whether he could be an ever present in a team promoted from his level. What makes you think they wouldn't, if we put him on the transfer list? Since Lockyer said he was leaving on a free, he really dropped in my estimations. This interview for me has sealed it, I have no positive feelings for the bloke anymore tbh. It was Rovers' mistake to not sell him last summer, but isn't it so convenient that he happens to run his contract down knowing full well he will leave end of the season (his words not mine) & without really telling the club. On top of that, he just happens to be turning 24 so we don't get a penny for him. Just to add to it, Giggs says he needs to play in a higher division to pursue his Wales career (which is one of the main reasons he left), but he has the cheek to tell us he's probably off to a League 1 club. I personally don't buy this 'you did so much for us' nonsense. He did the same as any other player who was part of that squad, he also got paid handsomely lets not forget. In fact, I'd probably say over the years we have done more for Tom than he has for us. Did he deserve to be captain? No. Does he now? Not really - TC is the one leading the team & motivating them. Did he deserve to be dropped when he was crap? Yes. Was he? No. People say he is looking after his career now by moving on a free, then I'm looking after my own interests whereby I certainly won't applaud Tom if we face him again, seeming as he'll be playing for a team looking to beat us. There was a whole movement around Taylor leaving for free about going out the back door or leaving through the front door, Tom has slipped through the back door.
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Post by neilv93 on May 17, 2019 8:39:44 GMT
Not sure I understand the Ollie part - he wasn't a then-22-year-old international and club captain, was he? Nor is he at the same level. What would I have done though? Probably sold him summer 2017. He'd signed a new contract in 2016 and renewed in January 2018, which to me signals he signed a two-year deal in 2016 to run until 2018. So I would've sold him halfway through that contract, when his sale value was at its highest point, after two back-to-back promotions and our highest finish in 17 years. And he should've probably left then but unfortunately it sounds like, like DC, he was sold a pipedream. But at that point in 2017 is when he should've been eyeing the next career step. Of course, all my opinion but that's what I'd have done/think he should've done. FWIW, I could envisage Ollie staying here for most/all of his professional career if both clubs stay at a competent level. Lockyer wasn't a capped international player two years ago. The fact he's been club captain in that time and started week in week out will have massively progressed him. What makes you think a bigger club was interested during that time and would have paid to take him off our hands? The jury is still out whether he's good enough for the Championship or whether he could be an ever present in a team promoted from his level. He was made his first two squads at the end of the season in question (and his full debut shortly after, I'll give you that). My point still stands that he was at his highest sale value as a club asset at that point. As for clubs being interested in him at that point - no idea. Inclined to think no one was hence him signing a new deal midway through the following season. I'm just saying that's when I would've looked to move him on from a financial point of view (rather than lose him on a free with no compensation now!). As for Tom's comments, I think he probably feels like maybe this was the point he should've forced a move to progress his career and I don't disagree, though I can understand why some have found slightly offensive, for lack of a better word (not to put words in his mouth but that's my interpretation of his comments).
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Post by neilv93 on May 17, 2019 8:42:59 GMT
Lockyer wasn't a capped international player two years ago. The fact he's been club captain in that time and started week in week out will have massively progressed him. What makes you think a bigger club was interested during that time and would have paid to take him off our hands? The jury is still out whether he's good enough for the Championship or whether he could be an ever present in a team promoted from his level. What makes you think they wouldn't, if we put him on the transfer list? Since Lockyer said he was leaving on a free, he really dropped in my estimations. This interview for me has sealed it, I have no positive feelings for the bloke anymore tbh. It was Rovers' mistake to not sell him last summer, but isn't it so convenient that he happens to run his contract down knowing full well he will leave end of the season (his words not mine) & without really telling the club. On top of that, he just happens to be turning 24 so we don't get a penny for him.
Just to add to it, Giggs says he needs to play in a higher division to pursue his Wales career (which is one of the main reasons he left), but he has the cheek to tell us he's probably off to a League 1 club.
I personally don't buy this 'you did so much for us' nonsense. He did the same as any other player who was part of that squad, he also got paid handsomely lets not forget. In fact, I'd probably say over the years we have done more for Tom than he has for us. Did he deserve to be captain? No. Does he now? Not really - TC is the one leading the team & motivating them. Did he deserve to be dropped when he was crap? Yes. Was he? No. People say he is looking after his career now by moving on a free, then I'm looking after my own interests whereby I certainly won't applaud Tom if we face him again, seeming as he'll be playing for a team looking to beat us. There was a whole movement around Taylor leaving for free about going out the back door or leaving through the front door, Tom has slipped through the back door. Hard to disagree with this part tbf. I still don't think he does owe us anything on the basis of his being part of two promotions etc. so he's given us a good service but completely agree with the bolded part, can't argue with any of it.
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Post by chewbacca on May 17, 2019 9:02:17 GMT
Loyalty is a two way street. In the last year Locks has seen his manager sacked, long standing colleagues marginalised and then released, long standing members of staff allowed to walk away and a break down in trust with regards to what direction the club is going. I think by leaving now he's protecting himself from a potential future shitstorm. Rovers haven't come out and said "we've fought tooth and nail to keep Locks", we've just had a statement from Coughlan saying "Oh, it would be dead nice if he did stay". People would do well to look beyond the tribalism of football and realise he's a 24 year old that gave us 6 years of first team football, and we got bloody good value for our investment.
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 9:03:43 GMT
What makes you think they wouldn't, if we put him on the transfer list? Since Lockyer said he was leaving on a free, he really dropped in my estimations. This interview for me has sealed it, I have no positive feelings for the bloke anymore tbh. It was Rovers' mistake to not sell him last summer, but isn't it so convenient that he happens to run his contract down knowing full well he will leave end of the season (his words not mine) & without really telling the club. On top of that, he just happens to be turning 24 so we don't get a penny for him.
Just to add to it, Giggs says he needs to play in a higher division to pursue his Wales career (which is one of the main reasons he left), but he has the cheek to tell us he's probably off to a League 1 club.
I personally don't buy this 'you did so much for us' nonsense. He did the same as any other player who was part of that squad, he also got paid handsomely lets not forget. In fact, I'd probably say over the years we have done more for Tom than he has for us. Did he deserve to be captain? No. Does he now? Not really - TC is the one leading the team & motivating them. Did he deserve to be dropped when he was crap? Yes. Was he? No. People say he is looking after his career now by moving on a free, then I'm looking after my own interests whereby I certainly won't applaud Tom if we face him again, seeming as he'll be playing for a team looking to beat us. There was a whole movement around Taylor leaving for free about going out the back door or leaving through the front door, Tom has slipped through the back door. Hard to disagree with this part tbf. I still don't think he does owe us anything on the basis of his being part of two promotions etc. so he's given us a good service but completely agree with the bolded part, can't argue with any of it. And this is the reason why I won't applaud him. I feel like we're owed some monetary value for the player we helped to create. We got nothing. But if he owes us nothing, why should I owe him anything?
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 9:04:37 GMT
Loyalty is a two way street. In the last year Locks has seen his manager sacked, long standing colleagues marginalised and then released, long standing members of staff allowed to walk away and a break down in trust with regards to what direction the club is going. I think by leaving now he's protecting himself from a potential future shitstorm. Rovers haven't come out and said "we've fought tooth and nail to keep Locks", we've just had a statement from Coughlan saying "Oh, it would be dead nice if he did stay". People would do well to look beyond the tribalism of football and realise he's a 24 year old that gave us 6 years of first team football, and we got bloody good value for our investment. £0 is good value?
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Post by chewbacca on May 17, 2019 9:21:47 GMT
Loyalty is a two way street. In the last year Locks has seen his manager sacked, long standing colleagues marginalised and then released, long standing members of staff allowed to walk away and a break down in trust with regards to what direction the club is going. I think by leaving now he's protecting himself from a potential future shitstorm. Rovers haven't come out and said "we've fought tooth and nail to keep Locks", we've just had a statement from Coughlan saying "Oh, it would be dead nice if he did stay". People would do well to look beyond the tribalism of football and realise he's a 24 year old that gave us 6 years of first team football, and we got bloody good value for our investment. £0 is good value? Two promotions and 282 first team appearences is better value than the £100,000 we got for his Youth Team colleague Matt Macey.
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 9:25:59 GMT
Two promotions and 282 first team appearences is better value than the £100,000 we got for his Youth Team colleague Matt Macey. So, did Lockyer do the promotions all by himself? Id personally say Bodin, Taylor & Harrison were better value on reflection.
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Post by simon1883 on May 17, 2019 9:34:07 GMT
Listening to the 3 of them, the bond they have had over the years they’ve been together is quite obvious and you can tell that Sincs and Lines would have happily given their all for another season. TL is probably right in that he needs a new challenge and I wish him well.
Really nice to hear that they all have fond memories and enjoyed their time with us.
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Post by peterparker on May 17, 2019 9:36:55 GMT
Lockyer wasn't a capped international player two years ago. The fact he's been club captain in that time and started week in week out will have massively progressed him. What makes you think a bigger club was interested during that time and would have paid to take him off our hands? The jury is still out whether he's good enough for the Championship or whether he could be an ever present in a team promoted from his level. What makes you think they wouldn't, if we put him on the transfer list? Since Lockyer said he was leaving on a free, he really dropped in my estimations. This interview for me has sealed it, I have no positive feelings for the bloke anymore tbh. It was Rovers' mistake to not sell him last summer, but isn't it so convenient that he happens to run his contract down knowing full well he will leave end of the season (his words not mine) & without really telling the club. On top of that, he just happens to be turning 24 so we don't get a penny for him. Just to add to it, Giggs says he needs to play in a higher division to pursue his Wales career (which is one of the main reasons he left), but he has the cheek to tell us he's probably off to a League 1 club. I personally don't buy this 'you did so much for us' nonsense. He did the same as any other player who was part of that squad, he also got paid handsomely lets not forget. In fact, I'd probably say over the years we have done more for Tom than he has for us. Did he deserve to be captain? No. Does he now? Not really - TC is the one leading the team & motivating them. Did he deserve to be dropped when he was crap? Yes. Was he? No. People say he is looking after his career now by moving on a free, then I'm looking after my own interests whereby I certainly won't applaud Tom if we face him again, seeming as he'll be playing for a team looking to beat us. There was a whole movement around Taylor leaving for free about going out the back door or leaving through the front door, Tom has slipped through the back door. Only in football can man honours contract be bad
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Post by chewbacca on May 17, 2019 9:37:09 GMT
Two promotions and 282 first team appearences is better value than the £100,000 we got for his Youth Team colleague Matt Macey. So, did Lockyer do the promotions all by himself? Id personally say Bodin, Taylor & Harrison were better value on reflection. You take the smallest cog out of a car and it doesn't work, every member of that squad was an asset to a greater or lesser extent. If you only put a players value to a club as a sell on fee then what's your opinion on Mansell, Monkhouse, Mildenhall, Lines, Brown, Leadbitter, Parkes, Easter, McChrystal, Gosling, DC and Stewwie. It's OK for the club to say "No, we don't want you any more" but if a player does it?
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Post by Icegas on May 17, 2019 9:47:59 GMT
Most ordinary people don't make a very good livelihood kicking a ball around in an industry which is underpinned and funded through supporter loyalty. He's been a very good servant to a club which gave him his chance. Still think some people are taking his comments out of context. He is trying to be honest and giving his side, when he could easily have left and said nothing and probably got a better thanks for it. Tom ran through proverbial brick walls for us and helped pull us out of a sh** place we were. He probably feels his peformances could have earned him a move, but he had a contract anf he has honoured it. As I said in another thread, sometimes I think players should decline interviews as I dont think they can win either way If you sign a contract then you have to honour it unless a club wants to sell you thats a simple fact. You can ask for a move,refuse to play..cry, beg etc.. but you have to see you contract through unless the club agrees to sell. The fact that Tom has said he tried to get out earlier tells us just that - that he tried to leave the club before now! He has ran his contract down to leave and get a bigger signing in fee for himself at his next club.Its clear he has had his head turned by seeing the likes of Bodin,the snake and Ellis leave.All of which have not made it as championship players - for different reasons.It also seems being a member of the wales squad seems gone alittle to his head. Nice guy,did well for our club over his time here.But can sadly be replaced.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 10:05:20 GMT
Thought Lines sounded bitter in his usual mono syllabic tones and Lockyer said and I quote “I should have got out two years earlier”.... and he was team Captain ... incredible!
Felt for Sinclair but he’s L2 standard to be fair.
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Post by chewbacca on May 17, 2019 10:08:43 GMT
Thought Lines sounded bitter in his usual mono syllabic tones and Lockyer said and I quote “I should have got out two years earlier”.... and he was team Captain ... incredible! Felt for Sinclair but he’s L2 standard to be fair. and this is the crux of it, we expect it from players and not the club.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 10:15:39 GMT
Just listening and TL not sure about choosing a bottom half Championship side or top half L1 side. He’s not getting the BIG clubs after him which may have surprised him if not us.
Wouldn’t be at all surprised if he joined Portsmouth or Doncaster / Charlton maybe Cheaterborough sorry Peterborough.
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Post by peterparker on May 17, 2019 10:32:07 GMT
Still think some people are taking his comments out of context. He is trying to be honest and giving his side, when he could easily have left and said nothing and probably got a better thanks for it. Tom ran through proverbial brick walls for us and helped pull us out of a sh** place we were. He probably feels his peformances could have earned him a move, but he had a contract anf he has honoured it. As I said in another thread, sometimes I think players should decline interviews as I dont think they can win either way If you sign a contract then you have to honour it unless a club wants to sell you thats a simple fact. You can ask for a move,refuse to play..cry, beg etc.. but you have to see you contract through unless the club agrees to sell. The fact that Tom has said he tried to get out earlier tells us just that - that he tried to leave the club before now! He has ran his contract down to leave and get a bigger signing in fee for himself at his next club.Its clear he has had his head turned by seeing the likes of Bodin,the snake and Ellis leave.All of which have not made it as championship players - for different reasons.It also seems being a member of the wales squad seems gone alittle to his head. Nice guy,did well for our club over his time here.But can sadly be replaced. The quote is "I couldnt get out for whatever reason" probably either no one wanted him or he had a contract Doesnt make him desperate to leave and even if he was, no one can fault the effort the bloke put in for the team, even playing 24 hours after being away with Wales As i say, players are better off saying nothing and being accused of not interacting with fans
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Post by Kingswood Polak on May 17, 2019 10:34:07 GMT
Loyalty is a two way street. In the last year Locks has seen his manager sacked, long standing colleagues marginalised and then released, long standing members of staff allowed to walk away and a break down in trust with regards to what direction the club is going. I think by leaving now he's protecting himself from a potential future shitstorm. Rovers haven't come out and said "we've fought tooth and nail to keep Locks", we've just had a statement from Coughlan saying "Oh, it would be dead nice if he did stay". People would do well to look beyond the tribalism of football and realise he's a 24 year old that gave us 6 years of first team football, and we got bloody good value for our investment. If anything swung his opinion and made him think of moving then I think the time spent with his national squad did that. I seem to remember a post saying that he was told he needed to play at an higher level if he was to keep getting picked but I could be wrong. I think being a member of Wales squad had a big part in this. I agree with most of what you say but, personally, I never thought he was a captain. The lack of talking in our team has been awful.
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Post by contradiction on May 17, 2019 10:35:57 GMT
There seems to be a lot of very bitter Rovers fans. Disappointing.
These players gave their all for us and I for one am very grateful and wish them all the best.
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Post by chewbacca on May 17, 2019 10:37:45 GMT
Loyalty is a two way street. In the last year Locks has seen his manager sacked, long standing colleagues marginalised and then released, long standing members of staff allowed to walk away and a break down in trust with regards to what direction the club is going. I think by leaving now he's protecting himself from a potential future shitstorm. Rovers haven't come out and said "we've fought tooth and nail to keep Locks", we've just had a statement from Coughlan saying "Oh, it would be dead nice if he did stay". People would do well to look beyond the tribalism of football and realise he's a 24 year old that gave us 6 years of first team football, and we got bloody good value for our investment. If anything swung his opinion and made him think of moving then I think the time spent with his national squad did that. I seem to remember a post saying that he was told he needed to play at an higher level if he was to keep getting picked but I could be wrong. I think being a member of Wales squad had a big part in this. I agree with most of what you say but, personally, I never thought he was a captain. The lack of talking in our team has been awful. Thing is we're not talking about cricket here, what does a captain actually do? You want leaders all over the pitch and in recent years when we've been successful we had that. Macca was never barking out orders, but ultimately helped the club to two promotions.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on May 17, 2019 10:42:21 GMT
Was and still is, any improvements are aiming to polish a turd.
Only one thing that will progress this club and that is a new stadium, if the current owners cannot deliver that then I fail to see why they bothered with us in the first place as the Wael's don't seem the sort of people to chuck money down the drain.
Seek and ye shall find I don't know where to start looking. Got any advice?
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