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Post by Kingswood Polak on May 17, 2019 10:47:10 GMT
If anything swung his opinion and made him think of moving then I think the time spent with his national squad did that. I seem to remember a post saying that he was told he needed to play at an higher level if he was to keep getting picked but I could be wrong. I think being a member of Wales squad had a big part in this. I agree with most of what you say but, personally, I never thought he was a captain. The lack of talking in our team has been awful. Thing is we're not talking about cricket here, what does a captain actually do? You want leaders all over the pitch and in recent years when we've been successful we had that. Macca was never barking out orders, but ultimately helped the club to two promotions. Agree with you but I do expect a captain to be the most vocal and also be around refs when one of your own players is arguing etc. Maybe it’s an age thing as, being captain of amateur sides, carried some kudos. I never once saw him being, in any way, assertive. You are right that we need the entire team to be talking. It’s been terrible this past 2 seasons
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Post by stevek192 on May 17, 2019 10:57:41 GMT
On the Captaincy point most great teams have great captains. The biggest mistake now for the club will be to replace Tom Lockyer as Captain with Ollie Clarke. Neither were Captain material. As regards Lockyer leaving I feel the "interested clubs" sums it up and I think the truth is that because of his lack of passing ability very few Championship clubs will take a chance on him and none would pay big money for him. I think it is more likely that he will join a top ten League 1 club like Browner did. Unfortunately we are not a top ten League 1 club but we could become one even if we build the team on free transfers and a couple of 100,000 to 200,000 players.One thing however is certain and that is there are not many clubs if any in the Championship with a record signing of £375,000!!! In truth if Tom Lockyer wants to go that badly then we are better off without him and having a player who does WANT to play for us.
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Post by Henbury Gas on May 17, 2019 11:00:12 GMT
On the Captaincy point most great teams have great captains. The biggest mistake now for the club will be to replace Tom Lockyer as Captain with Ollie Clarke. Neither were Captain material. As regards Lockyer leaving I feel the "interested clubs" sums it up and I think the truth is that because of his lack of passing ability very few Championship clubs will take a chance on him and none would pay big money for him. I think it is more likely that he will join a top ten League 1 club like Browner did. Unfortunately we are not a top ten League 1 club but we could become one even if we build the team on free transfers and a couple of 100,000 to 200,000 players.One thing however is certain and that is there are not many clubs if any in the Championship with a record signing of £375,000!!! In truth if Tom Lockyer wants to go that badly then we are better off without him and having a player who does WANT to play for us. Agree 100% with what you say
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Post by glengas on May 17, 2019 11:04:21 GMT
Really enjoyed the interviews. Surprised at the stick Locks is getting (not so much here, but the moronic Facebook groups) however I believe it comes down to the same as Lee Brown that the club cannot match the ambition of the player. I’s that surprising given the current climate at Rovers?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 11:07:20 GMT
Well that was all a bit lovely and boring!
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Post by chewbacca on May 17, 2019 11:13:11 GMT
Thing is we're not talking about cricket here, what does a captain actually do? You want leaders all over the pitch and in recent years when we've been successful we had that. Macca was never barking out orders, but ultimately helped the club to two promotions. Agree with you but I do expect a captain to be the most vocal and also be around refs when one of your own players is arguing etc. Maybe it’s an age thing as, being captain of amateur sides, carried some kudos. I never once saw him being, in any way, assertive. You are right that we need the entire team to be talking. It’s been terrible this past 2 seasons For me there are three types of captain;
- The Tub-Thumping leader. The man that prowls across the pitch, dominating every moment with the referee, barking orders out, the leader. See John Terry and Tony Adams.
- The Calm Leader. The man who delivers his leadership in a sedate manner, leading by example in a diplomatic way, usually a calming presence who glides around the pitch bringing tranquillity to his team. See Bobby Moore and Paolo Maldini.
- Leading by Example. The best player, the approach by every other country on earth. The man that can change a game and dictate a match with his talents. See Diego Maradona and Franz Beckenbauer.
Now, Locks for me goes into the category of the calm leader. As I've said above, most other countries don't buy into this leadership obsession of the British, see Poland for instance picking Lewandowski as captain over Błaszczykowski who is clearly a better leader of men.
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 11:17:26 GMT
So, did Lockyer do the promotions all by himself? Id personally say Bodin, Taylor & Harrison were better value on reflection. 1. You take the smallest cog out of a car and it doesn't work, every member of that squad was an asset to a greater or lesser extent. 2. If you only put a players value to a club as a sell on fee then what's your opinion on Mansell, Monkhouse, Mildenhall, Lines, Brown, Leadbitter, Parkes, Easter, McChrystal, Gosling, DC and Stewwie. It's OK for the club to say "No, we don't want you any more" but if a player does it? 1. Sure, but imagine you can sell that cog for a good amount of money & reinvest that money into the rest of the car so it performs even better. Instead, you get lazy & the gone has gone now. Then suddenly you find yourself having to replace that cog with no money & the car is performing the worst is has been in the last 4/5 years. To your point of value, essentially we've just had a car for 8 years which did XXXX miles with us and despite it being worth a few grand still, you're happy to give it away for free just because it served you well. What business sense would that make? 2. I don't only put a players value to a club as a sell on fee. So your question doesn't need answering. I put a sell on fee as the value of our greatest assets, which any business should do. Imagine a scenario for me: There is a football league club who plays in an non-league stadium, loses millions a year, barely makes any income, delays the AGM & doesn't own its training ground. That club has some great assets in its top players though, so what is the best & quickest way to stay afloat instead of losing millions? It'd be to sell those players when the time comes, right? Now imagine I told you that club just let its asset go for free. Again. You'd probably say that football club was run poorly, no? If you wouldn't what would you say? Apologies for all the car metaphors by the way
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Post by Kingswood Polak on May 17, 2019 11:22:25 GMT
Agree with you but I do expect a captain to be the most vocal and also be around refs when one of your own players is arguing etc. Maybe it’s an age thing as, being captain of amateur sides, carried some kudos. I never once saw him being, in any way, assertive. You are right that we need the entire team to be talking. It’s been terrible this past 2 seasons For me there are three types of captain;
- The Tub-Thumping leader. The man that prowls across the pitch, dominating every moment with the referee, barking orders out, the leader. See John Terry and Tony Adams.
- The Calm Leader. The man who delivers his leadership in a sedate manner, leading by example in a diplomatic way, usually a calming presence who glides around the pitch bringing tranquillity to his team. See Bobby Moore and Paolo Maldini.
- Leading by Example. The best player, the approach by every other country on earth. The man that can change a game and dictate a match with his talents. See Diego Maradona and Franz Beckenbauer.
Now, Locks for me goes into the category of the calm leader. As I've said above, most other countries don't buy into this leadership obsession of the British, see Poland for instance picking Lewandowski as captain over Błaszczykowski who is clearly a better leader of men.
I see your point but I think we really needed the first option, especially this last season. As for Poland, that is standard procedure. You only have to look at the way the blow out when they have qualified. Probably the best squad they have had in years but ruined by incompetent leadership and basically bottling it. The squad have been together a good few years now but failed miserably, to live up to the hype of individual players. I think you need to pick a captain for differing circumstances and you don’t necessarily have to stick with one man. Having said that, it’s down to the players, once on the pitch and, usually, you get one or two that take the role even if not assigned it. I have never known a Rovers team so quiet. As ever and as gas, we hope for better but prepare for worse.
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Post by chewbacca on May 17, 2019 11:22:46 GMT
1. You take the smallest cog out of a car and it doesn't work, every member of that squad was an asset to a greater or lesser extent. 2. If you only put a players value to a club as a sell on fee then what's your opinion on Mansell, Monkhouse, Mildenhall, Lines, Brown, Leadbitter, Parkes, Easter, McChrystal, Gosling, DC and Stewwie. It's OK for the club to say "No, we don't want you any more" but if a player does it? 1. Sure, but imagine you can sell that cog for a good amount of money & reinvest that money into the rest of the car so it performs even better. Instead, you get lazy & the gone has gone now. Then suddenly you find yourself having to replace that cog with no money & the car is performing the worst is has been in the last 4/5 years. To your point of value, essentially we've just had a car for 8 years which did XXXX miles with us and despite it being worth a few grand still, you're happy to give it away for free just because it served you well. What business sense would that make? 2. I don't only put a players value to a club as a sell on fee. So your question doesn't need answering. I put a sell on fee as the value of our greatest assets, which any business should do. Imagine a scenario for me: There is a football league club who plays in an non-league stadium, loses millions a year, barely makes any income, delays the AGM & doesn't own its training ground. That club has some great assets in its top players though, so what is the best & quickest way to stay afloat instead of losing millions? It'd be to sell those players when the time comes, right? Now imagine I told you that club just let its asset go for free. Again. You'd probably say that football club was run poorly, no? If you wouldn't what would you say?
Apologies for all the car metaphors by the way Completely agree with this, that's why the said asset has left. The Car is going nowhere, it's been stripped of all its parts, so the gear box may as well go find another car.
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 11:26:44 GMT
1. Sure, but imagine you can sell that cog for a good amount of money & reinvest that money into the rest of the car so it performs even better. Instead, you get lazy & the gone has gone now. Then suddenly you find yourself having to replace that cog with no money & the car is performing the worst is has been in the last 4/5 years. To your point of value, essentially we've just had a car for 8 years which did XXXX miles with us and despite it being worth a few grand still, you're happy to give it away for free just because it served you well. What business sense would that make? 2. I don't only put a players value to a club as a sell on fee. So your question doesn't need answering. I put a sell on fee as the value of our greatest assets, which any business should do. Imagine a scenario for me: There is a football league club who plays in an non-league stadium, loses millions a year, barely makes any income, delays the AGM & doesn't own its training ground. That club has some great assets in its top players though, so what is the best & quickest way to stay afloat instead of losing millions? It'd be to sell those players when the time comes, right? Now imagine I told you that club just let its asset go for free. Again. You'd probably say that football club was run poorly, no? If you wouldn't what would you say?
Apologies for all the car metaphors by the way Completely agree with this, that's why the said asset has left. The Car is going nowhere, it's been stripped of all its parts, so the gear box may as well go find another car. We should have sold the car last summer IMO
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Post by Topper Gas on May 17, 2019 11:30:50 GMT
"You'd probably say that football club was run poorly, no? If you wouldn't what would you say? " I guess you'd only say that if you didn't have a clue how Bosman works for any player aged over 24 years old.
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 11:39:07 GMT
"You'd probably say that football club was run poorly, no? If you wouldn't what would you say? " I guess you'd only say that if you didn't have a clue how Bosman works for any player aged over 24 years old. Umm, how does it work for a player over 24? We get £0 because he's over 24. What am I not understanding about that, Topper? Tbh, you post doesn't make sense
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 12:06:02 GMT
1. Sure, but imagine you can sell that cog for a good amount of money & reinvest that money into the rest of the car so it performs even better. Instead, you get lazy & the gone has gone now. Then suddenly you find yourself having to replace that cog with no money & the car is performing the worst is has been in the last 4/5 years. To your point of value, essentially we've just had a car for 8 years which did XXXX miles with us and despite it being worth a few grand still, you're happy to give it away for free just because it served you well. What business sense would that make? 2. I don't only put a players value to a club as a sell on fee. So your question doesn't need answering. I put a sell on fee as the value of our greatest assets, which any business should do. Imagine a scenario for me: There is a football league club who plays in an non-league stadium, loses millions a year, barely makes any income, delays the AGM & doesn't own its training ground. That club has some great assets in its top players though, so what is the best & quickest way to stay afloat instead of losing millions? It'd be to sell those players when the time comes, right? Now imagine I told you that club just let its asset go for free. Again. You'd probably say that football club was run poorly, no? If you wouldn't what would you say?
Apologies for all the car metaphors by the way Completely agree with this, that's why the said asset has left. The Car is going nowhere, it's been stripped of all its parts, so the gear box may as well go find another car. All feels very black and white to me. Of course he's entitled to a change and has undoubtedly served the club well. This narrative that we're falling apart and have nothing going for us is nonsense though. In this case gear box may well end up watching the car being driven from afar and realising the grass wasn't any greener.
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Post by chewbacca on May 17, 2019 12:12:05 GMT
Completely agree with this, that's why the said asset has left. The Car is going nowhere, it's been stripped of all its parts, so the gear box may as well go find another car. All feels very black and white to me. Of course he's entitled to a change and has undoubtedly served the club well. This narrative that we're falling apart and have nothing going for us is nonsense though. In this case gear box may well end up watching the car being driven from afar and realising the grass wasn't any greener. We're on our way!
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 12:24:17 GMT
All feels very black and white to me. Of course he's entitled to a change and has undoubtedly served the club well. This narrative that we're falling apart and have nothing going for us is nonsense though. In this case gear box may well end up watching the car being driven from afar and realising the grass wasn't any greener. We're on our way!
I Hope that drivers insurance company has not seen that video. it starts to fall apart before hitting the ditch. There must have been an inherent error in the cars make up. Argue that with the boys at Direct Line, go on i dare you.
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Post by spiess1 on May 17, 2019 12:24:26 GMT
Cogs going? Plymouth?
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Post by Topper Gas on May 17, 2019 12:44:01 GMT
Completely agree with this, that's why the said asset has left. The Car is going nowhere, it's been stripped of all its parts, so the gear box may as well go find another car. We should have sold the car last summer IMO But we could only sell Locks if he was prepared to move rather than just run down his contract. No idea how it works for free agents but I assume some of the £500K+ we would have got as a transfer fee will now go to Locks instead.
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Post by baggins on May 17, 2019 12:44:55 GMT
Already gone. News broke an hour ago.
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 12:57:58 GMT
We should have sold the car last summer IMO But we could only sell Locks if he was prepared to move rather than just run down his contract. No idea how it works for free agents but I assume some of the £500K+ we would have got as a transfer fee will now go to Locks instead. 1. He was prepared to move. He said to in his interview. 2. I don't think any of the money would go to him at all, it just makes him more attractive to other clubs. Their saving is our loss.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 13:11:12 GMT
But we could only sell Locks if he was prepared to move rather than just run down his contract. No idea how it works for free agents but I assume some of the £500K+ we would have got as a transfer fee will now go to Locks instead. 1. He was prepared to move. He said to in his interview. 2. I don't think any of the money would go to him at all, it just makes him more attractive to other clubs. Their saving is our loss. 1. He may have been prepared to move but no guarantee he would have. He is not an item off a shelf, or perhaps a slave would be a better description, that we can just flog to the highest bidder. If only one or two bids came in and he fancied neither he would have sat tight and waited until he was a free agent and the market of potential new clubs suddenly opens up. 2. He obviously isn't guaranteed the fee a club would have received if he was under contract. Quite clearly there will be more interested parties for a free agent and his agent will be far better to placed to negotiate a sizeable signing on fee or larger than expected wages when his client is a free agent.
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