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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jun 16, 2019 8:29:40 GMT
Plan B was to redevelop the Memorial Stadium - with people who have built "not 4 or 5 but a dozen world class stadiums" (I paraphrase). Did you not hear the interview? Or are you re-writing history to suit your own narrative? I gave them time. I wrote to a couple of people on the Board asking for details of these people / companies involved with the redevelopment and got a resounding silence. It was a lie. They lied to give themselves breathing space after the initial UWE collapse and hoped people would forget. They must think we are stupid. We will have to agree to differ on that one. Right - the Training Facility. "If" the Training Facility was contingent with a new Stadium - why weren't we told at the time that the Colony was (quite literally) being put out to grass when UWE collapsed. They even hired consultants to get the Colony 'moving'. Spoof! Tell them some lies and hope they'll forget. As for the UWE stuff - earlier in this thread you defended Dwane Sports for their pursuance of UWE right up until Feb of this year. Now you are saying it was Ed Ware and his money. When Wael gave that awful interview (which one you may ask) to Twentyman HE claimed that it was HIS efforts to get it over the line. Someone is lying. Sorry to rant. We all want what is best for Bristol Rovers. But I get angry when I am lied to repeatedly and am then asked to show that same person the benefit of doubt and to be patient. Not having it. Micheal Cunnah was the man you are referring to when the ALQs took over, who had already seen the plans for the stadium way before the ALQs took over. He was brought in to lead the development once the stadium site had been agreed. Micheal Cunnah was not here to develop the Mem. The training facility that they want cost far more than the budget allowed. Wael says now that is part of the stadium deal once it goes through. Which is why it hasn’t been started yet. DS along with Ed Ware tried to resurrect the UWE. DS worked along side all parties as they wanted the stadium. A deal was agreed. And then UWE reneged on that deal at the 11th hour. I’m not going to tell you the details I have been told as it isn’t my place, but their request was not only unorthodox, but completely astronomical and beyond any form of business sense. If you really want to know, why not try and get the answer from them. His interview with 20man was speaking about his perspective. He will be involved in all the meetings, it’s his club in business title and he wants to build a stadium so of course there is effort on his part. I too once was a sceptic of the ALQ reign. Lots of posters will tell you on here I was far from their biggest fan. However I realise there is an agenda at play, with the fuel to turn people who have a sceptical opinion like you against the owners. Read between the lines and you’ll see it. This same person who lied to you (apparently) has also given everything the last manager wanted, to him. One of the largest squads in the league both first team and U23. One of the largest backroom teams in the league for non paying staff. And commercially has gotten someone in to get us on the front foot for marketing the club properly to help generate income. As well as purchase land for a training ground and actively seek a stadium site for development. If someone was that lazy or that much of a halfwit wouldn’t be able to do any of the above. UWE were clearly shocked in August 2017 when ALQs pulled out of the deal. They might have been angry about being played, they might have decided that they would not ever enter into any relationship with the ALQs again under any circumstances. They might have felt the ALQs could not be trusted and were bad faith negotiators. It might be that UWE only started talking again to people representing the club on condition that the ALQs weren’t going to be involved. It might be that it became clear that they would be involved and it might be that the UWE decided not to go forward with what had otherwise been agreed in principle if the ALQs had relinquished their interest in the club. Who knows!
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Post by wertongas on Jun 16, 2019 8:49:29 GMT
You are spot on feeling the blues, Wael actually said that UWE were not interested after the club had gone back to them last autumn and who would blame them..
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Post by Gassy on Jun 16, 2019 9:29:56 GMT
But if the reports are true, who could blame the club for walking away?
I’d do almost anything for a new stadium, but giving away ownership of the land and nearly all revenue the stadium generates is not one of them. What’s the point of having it if that’s the case.
Whose side are you in here, BRFC or UWE?
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Post by northridinggas on Jun 16, 2019 9:41:25 GMT
But if the reports are true, who could blame the club for walking away? I’d do almost anything for a new stadium, but giving away ownership of the land and nearly all revenue the stadium generates is not one of them. What’s the point of having it if that’s the case. Whose side are you in here, BRFC or UWE? The big word in there Gassy is IF the reports are true. Everyone is speculating, if it was that clear cut why hasn't Wael or the club said that to clear the air? MY own view (and it is only a view) is that both the training ground and the stadium were predicated on unreasonable/naive assumptions about using other developments to fund them which have not come to fruition
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Post by Jomo on Jun 16, 2019 9:46:34 GMT
But if the reports are true, who could blame the club for walking away? I’d do almost anything for a new stadium, but giving away ownership of the land and nearly all revenue the stadium generates is not one of them. What’s the point of having it if that’s the case. Whose side are you in here, BRFC or UWE? The big word in there Gassy is IF the reports are true. Everyone is speculating, if it was that clear cut why hasn't Wael or the club said that to clear the air? MY own view (and it is only a view) is that both the training ground and the stadium were predicated on unreasonable/naive assumptions about using other developments to fund them which have not come to fruition This was my assumption as well, but agreed that it is only speculation on my part. The whole reason given at the first collapse of UWE not going to Jordan to thrash out a deal, was bizarre and frankly ridiculous. That's when my faith in the ALQ's diminished significantly. If that truly was the final nail in the coffin of the deal then I would be disgusted that the club's opportunity for progress was abandoned due to something so trivial. Of course there would be other factors at play, but no final decision can be made because of this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2019 9:52:28 GMT
Maybe it was a good deal for us but not for DS? Maybe they didn’t have access to the finance needed- as Swissgas has pointed out they are relative paupers in football terms. The funding of a stadium would comprise an absolutely massive chunk of their worth. They found an 8 million training ground to be too expensive don’t forget.
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Post by Gassy on Jun 16, 2019 9:54:36 GMT
But if the reports are true, who could blame the club for walking away? I’d do almost anything for a new stadium, but giving away ownership of the land and nearly all revenue the stadium generates is not one of them. What’s the point of having it if that’s the case. Whose side are you in here, BRFC or UWE? The big word in there Gassy is IF the reports are true. Everyone is speculating, if it was that clear cut why hasn't Wael or the club said that to clear the air? MY own view (and it is only a view) is that both the training ground and the stadium were predicated on unreasonable/naive assumptions about using other developments to fund them which have not come to fruition Well there are people on here who know the old board who’ve said what the general terms of the deal was, and I trust their information. The only if is on the revenue anyway, it’s a fact we wouldn’t have owned the land. I’m not sure Wael even knows people are speculating, I doubt he knows what 50 people on the forum are talking about. If people are so desperate to know, those at the AGM should have asked him. However it is probably fairly likely that there is an NDA about the specifics of the deal, which is understandable. The point I’m getting at before is why are UWE the good guys but Rovers the only bad guys? We pulled out of a deal = our fault. UWE pulled out of the 2nd deal = our fault because we pulled out before. It’s like a childish squabble. Both parties are to blame but ultimately there was a business deal to be made where neither side would be benefited as much as they need/want. I don’t think UWE was a funding issue, personally. Why could we not afford UWE but are looking at new land closer to the centre (and more expensive) & build a new stadium with all the plans etc that go with it?
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Post by Jomo on Jun 16, 2019 10:17:21 GMT
The big word in there Gassy is IF the reports are true. Everyone is speculating, if it was that clear cut why hasn't Wael or the club said that to clear the air? MY own view (and it is only a view) is that both the training ground and the stadium were predicated on unreasonable/naive assumptions about using other developments to fund them which have not come to fruition Well there are people on here who know the old board who’ve said what the general terms of the deal was, and I trust their information. The only if is on the revenue anyway, it’s a fact we wouldn’t have owned the land. I’m not sure Wael even knows people are speculating, I doubt he knows what 50 people on the forum are talking about. If people are so desperate to know, those at the AGM should have asked him. However it is probably fairly likely that there is an NDA about the specifics of the deal, which is understandable. The point I’m getting at before is why are UWE the good guys but Rovers the only bad guys? We pulled out of a deal = our fault. UWE pulled out of the 2nd deal = our fault because we pulled out before. It’s like a childish squabble. Both parties are to blame but ultimately there was a business deal to be made where neither side would be benefited as much as they need/want. I don’t think UWE was a funding issue, personally. Why could we not afford UWE but are looking at new land closer to the centre (and more expensive) & build a new stadium with all the plans etc that go with it? Fair points but are we actually looking at new land closer to the centre or is this just more speculation?
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Post by burnthewitch on Jun 16, 2019 10:31:21 GMT
Plan B was to redevelop the Memorial Stadium - with people who have built "not 4 or 5 but a dozen world class stadiums" (I paraphrase). Did you not hear the interview? Or are you re-writing history to suit your own narrative? I gave them time. I wrote to a couple of people on the Board asking for details of these people / companies involved with the redevelopment and got a resounding silence. It was a lie. They lied to give themselves breathing space after the initial UWE collapse and hoped people would forget. They must think we are stupid. We will have to agree to differ on that one. Right - the Training Facility. "If" the Training Facility was contingent with a new Stadium - why weren't we told at the time that the Colony was (quite literally) being put out to grass when UWE collapsed. They even hired consultants to get the Colony 'moving'. Spoof! Tell them some lies and hope they'll forget. As for the UWE stuff - earlier in this thread you defended Dwane Sports for their pursuance of UWE right up until Feb of this year. Now you are saying it was Ed Ware and his money. When Wael gave that awful interview (which one you may ask) to Twentyman HE claimed that it was HIS efforts to get it over the line. Someone is lying. Sorry to rant. We all want what is best for Bristol Rovers. But I get angry when I am lied to repeatedly and am then asked to show that same person the benefit of doubt and to be patient. Not having it. Micheal Cunnah was the man you are referring to when the ALQs took over, who had already seen the plans for the stadium way before the ALQs took over. He was brought in to lead the development once the stadium site had been agreed. Micheal Cunnah was not here to develop the Mem. The training facility that they want cost far more than the budget allowed. Wael says now that is part of the stadium deal once it goes through. Which is why it hasn’t been started yet. DS along with Ed Ware tried to resurrect the UWE. DS worked along side all parties as they wanted the stadium. A deal was agreed. And then UWE reneged on that deal at the 11th hour. I’m not going to tell you the details I have been told as it isn’t my place, but their request was not only unorthodox, but completely astronomical and beyond any form of business sense. If you really want to know, why not try and get the answer from them. His interview with 20man was speaking about his perspective. He will be involved in all the meetings, it’s his club in business title and he wants to build a stadium so of course there is effort on his part. I too once was a sceptic of the ALQ reign. Lots of posters will tell you on here I was far from their biggest fan. However I realise there is an agenda at play, with the fuel to turn people who have a sceptical opinion like you against the owners. Read between the lines and you’ll see it. This same person who lied to you (apparently) has also given everything the last manager wanted, to him. One of the largest squads in the league both first team and U23. One of the largest backroom teams in the league for non paying staff. And commercially has gotten someone in to get us on the front foot for marketing the club properly to help generate income. As well as purchase land for a training ground and actively seek a stadium site for development. If someone was that lazy or that much of a halfwit wouldn’t be able to do any of the above. Appreciate your response. I was a massive supporter of the Al-Qadi's up to the initial UWE collapse (plus about another 6 months to see what their Plan B was. Still waiting). I would love to know what the "unorthodox, but completely astronomical" demands were from UWE in late 2018. If what you say is true, then this is the "Get out of jail free card" for Wael Al-Qadi. He did make some mumbled, vague references to UWE negotiations in his last interview (March 14th). If BRFC were shafted by UWE - then why doesn't Dwane Sports / Wael Al-Qadi come out and bloody say it? Just be honest. Please do not quote me NDA's - Wael already made some half-arsed references to it in the interview (referenced above), so he's already broken them. So Wael - just tell us what actually happened. Just be honest. Show the cynical b*stards like me some EVIDENCE that you were trying as hard as you can to make the UWE deal work. You might just get back a large percentage of the Supporters who are currently disenfranchised and looking at other ways to spend their time on a Saturday afternoon. Just how are season ticket sales going? Two words for Wael to contemplate. Honesty and Communication.
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Post by Gassy on Jun 16, 2019 10:41:41 GMT
Well there are people on here who know the old board who’ve said what the general terms of the deal was, and I trust their information. The only if is on the revenue anyway, it’s a fact we wouldn’t have owned the land. I’m not sure Wael even knows people are speculating, I doubt he knows what 50 people on the forum are talking about. If people are so desperate to know, those at the AGM should have asked him. However it is probably fairly likely that there is an NDA about the specifics of the deal, which is understandable. The point I’m getting at before is why are UWE the good guys but Rovers the only bad guys? We pulled out of a deal = our fault. UWE pulled out of the 2nd deal = our fault because we pulled out before. It’s like a childish squabble. Both parties are to blame but ultimately there was a business deal to be made where neither side would be benefited as much as they need/want. I don’t think UWE was a funding issue, personally. Why could we not afford UWE but are looking at new land closer to the centre (and more expensive) & build a new stadium with all the plans etc that go with it? Fair points but are we actually looking at new land closer to the centre or is this just more speculation? I believe Wael has said it
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 16, 2019 10:47:12 GMT
The big word in there Gassy is IF the reports are true. Everyone is speculating, if it was that clear cut why hasn't Wael or the club said that to clear the air? MY own view (and it is only a view) is that both the training ground and the stadium were predicated on unreasonable/naive assumptions about using other developments to fund them which have not come to fruition Well there are people on here who know the old board who’ve said what the general terms of the deal was, and I trust their information. The only if is on the revenue anyway, it’s a fact we wouldn’t have owned the land. I’m not sure Wael even knows people are speculating, I doubt he knows what 50 people on the forum are talking about. If people are so desperate to know, those at the AGM should have asked him. However it is probably fairly likely that there is an NDA about the specifics of the deal, which is understandable. The point I’m getting at before is why are UWE the good guys but Rovers the only bad guys? We pulled out of a deal = our fault. UWE pulled out of the 2nd deal = our fault because we pulled out before. It’s like a childish squabble. Both parties are to blame but ultimately there was a business deal to be made where neither side would be benefited as much as they need/want. I don’t think UWE was a funding issue, personally. Why could we not afford UWE but are looking at new land closer to the centre (and more expensive) & build a new stadium with all the plans etc that go with it? We've no idea if that was true or just gossip put about to put the old board in a negative light but even if it was true the ALQ's/third party spent 3 years discussing a deal, surely they would have called off talks a lot sooner if the UWE were being unreasonable about match day income.
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Post by Jomo on Jun 16, 2019 10:48:16 GMT
Fair points but are we actually looking at new land closer to the centre or is this just more speculation? I believe Wael has said it Fair enough but until I see it or hear it with my own ears I will take that with a pinch of salt.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Jun 16, 2019 10:48:22 GMT
If the Al Qadi family are willing to risk in excess of 20 million on us already with more to come on the hope of a stadium dream playing out then the payout on their intentions must be phenomenal.
From what I can tell from speculation and tid bits here and there the UWE collapse was unfortunate and we were close to a deal. It’s not unreasonable to spend three years trying to get that over the line and hopefully new plans are progressing at a rate of knots.
I remain optimistic for the future but we do have to take speculation with a pinch of salt and trust that the family will deliver what we all (a few aside) dream of,
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Post by burnthewitch on Jun 16, 2019 10:49:22 GMT
Maybe it was a good deal for us but not for DS? Maybe they didn’t have access to the finance needed- as Swissgas has pointed out they are relative paupers in football terms. The funding of a stadium would comprise an absolutely massive chunk of their worth. They found an 8 million training ground to be too expensive don’t forget. 100% this. Bristol Rovers wanted a 20,000 stadium, to make (one would hope) a small amount of money on an annual basis and to be a sustainable entity in the 21c. Maybe even get to sustainability in the Championship, who knows. Dwane Sports had to find funding, because they can't pay for it themselves. So their investors will have required a return on their investment. The numbers didn't work. In fact I think I've just answered the question I posed to gashead1981 earlier. The reason that we are denied the truth about the UWE collapse - is because the deal was doable. But it didn't give the investors the return they required in the time they wanted it. If supporters realised how close we were to a once in a generation opportunity to acquire a permanent home that was fit for purpose - they would go ballistic - because it failed because bankers weren't able to screw enough money out of the deal. Other versions of events are, I'm sure available. But that one looks good to me.
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Post by Gassy on Jun 16, 2019 10:50:23 GMT
Well there are people on here who know the old board who’ve said what the general terms of the deal was, and I trust their information. The only if is on the revenue anyway, it’s a fact we wouldn’t have owned the land. I’m not sure Wael even knows people are speculating, I doubt he knows what 50 people on the forum are talking about. If people are so desperate to know, those at the AGM should have asked him. However it is probably fairly likely that there is an NDA about the specifics of the deal, which is understandable. The point I’m getting at before is why are UWE the good guys but Rovers the only bad guys? We pulled out of a deal = our fault. UWE pulled out of the 2nd deal = our fault because we pulled out before. It’s like a childish squabble. Both parties are to blame but ultimately there was a business deal to be made where neither side would be benefited as much as they need/want. I don’t think UWE was a funding issue, personally. Why could we not afford UWE but are looking at new land closer to the centre (and more expensive) & build a new stadium with all the plans etc that go with it? We've no idea if that was true or just gossip put about to put the old board in a negative light but even if it was true the ALQ's/third party spent 3 years discussing a deal, surely they would have called off talks a lot sooner if the UWE were being unreasonable about match day income. Fair point, but ultimately it’s hard to even guess. There could have been red lines BRFC wouldn’t cross & visa versa - whilst both parties holding out to get their idea through. Either way you are right, 3 years seems a long time though. I could speculate on 1000 different reasons why, but it would only speculation
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Post by Gassy on Jun 16, 2019 10:52:56 GMT
Maybe it was a good deal for us but not for DS? Maybe they didn’t have access to the finance needed- as Swissgas has pointed out they are relative paupers in football terms. The funding of a stadium would comprise an absolutely massive chunk of their worth. They found an 8 million training ground to be too expensive don’t forget. 100% this. Bristol Rovers wanted a 20,000 stadium, to make (one would hope) a small amount of money on an annual basis and to be a sustainable entity in the 21c. Maybe even get to sustainability in the Championship, who knows. Dwane Sports had to find funding, because they can't pay for it themselves. So their investors will have required a return on their investment. The numbers didn't work. In fact I think I've just answered the question I posed to gashead1981 earlier. The reason that we are denied the truth about the UWE collapse - is because the deal was doable. But it didn't give the investors the return they required in the time they wanted it. If supporters realised how close we were to a once in a generation opportunity to acquire a permanent home that was fit for purpose - they would go ballistic - because it failed because bankers weren't able to screw enough money out of the deal. Other versions of events are, I'm sure available. But that one looks good to me. Lol and this is based on?
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jun 16, 2019 10:57:28 GMT
Micheal Cunnah was the man you are referring to when the ALQs took over, who had already seen the plans for the stadium way before the ALQs took over. He was brought in to lead the development once the stadium site had been agreed. Micheal Cunnah was not here to develop the Mem. The training facility that they want cost far more than the budget allowed. Wael says now that is part of the stadium deal once it goes through. Which is why it hasn’t been started yet. DS along with Ed Ware tried to resurrect the UWE. DS worked along side all parties as they wanted the stadium. A deal was agreed. And then UWE reneged on that deal at the 11th hour. I’m not going to tell you the details I have been told as it isn’t my place, but their request was not only unorthodox, but completely astronomical and beyond any form of business sense. If you really want to know, why not try and get the answer from them. His interview with 20man was speaking about his perspective. He will be involved in all the meetings, it’s his club in business title and he wants to build a stadium so of course there is effort on his part. I too once was a sceptic of the ALQ reign. Lots of posters will tell you on here I was far from their biggest fan. However I realise there is an agenda at play, with the fuel to turn people who have a sceptical opinion like you against the owners. Read between the lines and you’ll see it. This same person who lied to you (apparently) has also given everything the last manager wanted, to him. One of the largest squads in the league both first team and U23. One of the largest backroom teams in the league for non paying staff. And commercially has gotten someone in to get us on the front foot for marketing the club properly to help generate income. As well as purchase land for a training ground and actively seek a stadium site for development. If someone was that lazy or that much of a halfwit wouldn’t be able to do any of the above. Appreciate your response. I was a massive supporter of the Al-Qadi's up to the initial UWE collapse (plus about another 6 months to see what their Plan B was. Still waiting). I would love to know what the "unorthodox, but completely astronomical" demands were from UWE in late 2018. If what you say is true, then this is the "Get out of jail free card" for Wael Al-Qadi. He did make some mumbled, vague references to UWE negotiations in his last interview (March 14th). If BRFC were shafted by UWE - then why doesn't Dwane Sports / Wael Al-Qadi come out and bloody say it? Just be honest. Please do not quote me NDA's - Wael already made some half-arsed references to it in the interview (referenced above), so he's already broken them. So Wael - just tell us what actually happened. Just be honest. Show the cynical b*stards like me some EVIDENCE that you were trying as hard as you can to make the UWE deal work. You might just get back a large percentage of the Supporters who are currently disenfranchised and looking at other ways to spend their time on a Saturday afternoon. Just how are season ticket sales going? Two words for Wael to contemplate. Honesty and Communication. Exactly how I feel about ALQs too only I lost faith on 3rd August 2017 but like you I was very much on their side before that. Anyway maybe the reason the club doesn’t want to say why the second negotiation with UWE fell through was because it fell through because it was dependent upon a change of ownership at the club?
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Post by Gassy on Jun 16, 2019 11:05:15 GMT
Seeming as we’re just going to randomly speculate points from nowhere:
maybe they don’t mention anything because UWE actually had a plan to not extend the lease of 99 years and make us homeless whilst keeping our stadium. They didn’t want to throw the old board under the bus by revealing this info
This is a fun game, what else can we come up with?
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nsgas
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Post by nsgas on Jun 16, 2019 11:20:54 GMT
I lost hope of the UWE stadium happening years ago when Wael said it required funding by investors. How on earth would investors get a return on their investment given that virtually all clubs lose money every year? I know that a new stadium would bring bigger crowds and greater other revenue streams but plenty of other clubs have this and still lose money. You only have to look at Bristol City and their massive losses to see that.
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Post by curlywurly on Jun 16, 2019 11:29:05 GMT
100% this. Bristol Rovers wanted a 20,000 stadium, to make (one would hope) a small amount of money on an annual basis and to be a sustainable entity in the 21c. Maybe even get to sustainability in the Championship, who knows. Dwane Sports had to find funding, because they can't pay for it themselves. So their investors will have required a return on their investment. The numbers didn't work. In fact I think I've just answered the question I posed to gashead1981 earlier. The reason that we are denied the truth about the UWE collapse - is because the deal was doable. But it didn't give the investors the return they required in the time they wanted it. If supporters realised how close we were to a once in a generation opportunity to acquire a permanent home that was fit for purpose - they would go ballistic - because it failed because bankers weren't able to screw enough money out of the deal.Other versions of events are, I'm sure available. But that one looks good to me. You know this? Or you are speculating?
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