Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 14,287
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Post by Marshy on Jun 19, 2019 9:16:44 GMT
29 pages of absolute nothing 🤦🏽♂️ Sorted that for you Chilly 👀
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Post by tomylil on Jun 19, 2019 13:47:59 GMT
I thought it was mainly gossip that was in the public domain as Twentyman did ask can you confirm the talks were with UWE but thanks for the other information Interesting point KP. UWE v2 was not in the public domain. There had been rumours, but the last from Wael on the subject was that all talks with UWE were dead - he said this in August 2017. It was exactly the same time that Steve Hamer said that negotiations with UWE weren't dead and that in football "you never know". Anyway - that interview: GT: "A lot of people thought the problem was ownership, who owned the land, who had to pay this and that, and you thought you'd ironed it out". WAQ: "We had the best deal for the club which was, uh, freehold. However it's their right, they wanted better use of the land for their own purposes. That is their prerogative".WAQ was very "matter of fact" about it. I still can't get my head round why. So for me it's either: 1. Wael made reference to UWE negotiations, but not enough to break an NDA and he has done all he could legally to cover "what went wrong". Or, 2. Wael hid behind NDA's to cover up why the deal fell through. Perhaps because it was all around Dwane Sports / their investors were not able to make enough money out of the deal. What were the "astronomical last minute demands made by UWE that scuppered the deal"? Ah Catch 22 - see point 1. Take your pick. For me it all boils down to a lack of communication with the fan base which has led to divisions between those that trust Dwane Sports, and those that do not. For the sake of the Football Club it would obviously be healthy if these divisions could be healed. Concrete plans for a new Stadium and/or Training Facilities would do the job. I wait. But not as patiently as others. Wasn't the land formerly owned by, then granted to UWE by Hewlett Packard for further university related use ? If so, then a sell on would have been a non starter surely ? What organisation would give land away to a public body so that they could flog it to a commercial entity. If it wasn't former HP land then apologies in advance.
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Post by thegasman on Jun 19, 2019 14:55:20 GMT
Interesting point KP. UWE v2 was not in the public domain. There had been rumours, but the last from Wael on the subject was that all talks with UWE were dead - he said this in August 2017. It was exactly the same time that Steve Hamer said that negotiations with UWE weren't dead and that in football "you never know". Anyway - that interview: GT: "A lot of people thought the problem was ownership, who owned the land, who had to pay this and that, and you thought you'd ironed it out". WAQ: "We had the best deal for the club which was, uh, freehold. However it's their right, they wanted better use of the land for their own purposes. That is their prerogative".WAQ was very "matter of fact" about it. I still can't get my head round why. So for me it's either: 1. Wael made reference to UWE negotiations, but not enough to break an NDA and he has done all he could legally to cover "what went wrong". Or, 2. Wael hid behind NDA's to cover up why the deal fell through. Perhaps because it was all around Dwane Sports / their investors were not able to make enough money out of the deal. What were the "astronomical last minute demands made by UWE that scuppered the deal"? Ah Catch 22 - see point 1. Take your pick. For me it all boils down to a lack of communication with the fan base which has led to divisions between those that trust Dwane Sports, and those that do not. For the sake of the Football Club it would obviously be healthy if these divisions could be healed. Concrete plans for a new Stadium and/or Training Facilities would do the job. I wait. But not as patiently as others. Wasn't the land formerly owned by, then granted to UWE by Hewlett Packard for further university related use ? If so, then a sell on would have been a non starter surely ? What organisation would give land away to a public body so that they could flog it to a commercial entity. If it wasn't former HP land then apologies in advance. It was, essentially sold for a nominal fee to UWE, for university use. That codicil would either need to be removed, or in the old stadium plans argue that the teaching space, use of car park during the week, employment for students, naming of stadium etc. was good enough to constitute University use.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 15:20:22 GMT
Wasn't the land formerly owned by, then granted to UWE by Hewlett Packard for further university related use ? If so, then a sell on would have been a non starter surely ? What organisation would give land away to a public body so that they could flog it to a commercial entity. If it wasn't former HP land then apologies in advance. It was, essentially sold for a nominal fee to UWE, for university use. That codicil would either need to be removed, or in the old stadium plans argue that the teaching space, use of car park during the week, employment for students, naming of stadium etc. was good enough to constitute University use. That was how I remember it, so why did Wael and his cronies think they could buy the actual land? If it was as reported a peppercorn rent for 125 years why the need to own the actual land? All this is part of why I doubt the Al Qadi version of events. Was it because if they owned the land they could build a hotel on it? I can quite well believe that they took something that was maybe a bit archaic, but not broken and destroyed it trying to make it future proof for a future that was never going to come.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Jun 19, 2019 16:03:38 GMT
If they wanted to build a hotel then that doesn’t have to just be a money grabbing exercise for the Al Qadis. Revenue generation = greater transfer funds = greater ability to compete
Lansdown is trying to do this at Ashton Gate is he not.
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Post by tomylil on Jun 19, 2019 16:16:39 GMT
Wasn't the land formerly owned by, then granted to UWE by Hewlett Packard for further university related use ? If so, then a sell on would have been a non starter surely ? What organisation would give land away to a public body so that they could flog it to a commercial entity. If it wasn't former HP land then apologies in advance. It was, essentially sold for a nominal fee to UWE, for university use. That codicil would either need to be removed, or in the old stadium plans argue that the teaching space, use of car park during the week, employment for students, naming of stadium etc. was good enough to constitute University use. I suspect that HP would rip UWE and Rovers a new one had there been an attempt to change the ownership of the land, because every reason you correctly cite could have been achieved via a long leasehold agreement. No one knows the truth, but a deal that appeared suitable for both parties was in place, then it appears destroyed by a requirement to own the freehold by the new Rovers hierarchy.
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Post by tomylil on Jun 19, 2019 16:20:41 GMT
If they wanted to build a hotel then that doesn’t have to just be a money grabbing exercise for the Al Qadis. Revenue generation = greater transfer funds = greater ability to compete Lansdown is trying to do this at Ashton Gate is he not. Lansdown owns the land though does he not whereas the AQ's never could so far as my memory serves me. Who is to say that revenue generated from a hotel down in BS3 goes to the football club ? I bet that doesn't happen south of the river, nor all the revenue from flogging Ashton Vale for residential use. This is payback time for the Lord of Guernsey for all the millions he has pumped in, and will not doubt continue to do (lady garden)
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Post by gasandelectricity on Jun 19, 2019 16:27:07 GMT
If they wanted to build a hotel then that doesn’t have to just be a money grabbing exercise for the Al Qadis. Revenue generation = greater transfer funds = greater ability to compete Lansdown is trying to do this at Ashton Gate is he not. Lansdown owns the land though does he not whereas the AQ's never could so far as my memory serves me. Who is to say that revenue generated from a hotel down in BS3 goes to the football club ? I bet that doesn't happen south of the river, nor all the revenue from flogging Ashton Vale for residential use. This is payback time for the Lord of Guernsey for all the millions he has pumped in, and will not doubt continue to do (lady garden) Not necessarily will come to the club but if it makes the deal more feasible then it’s all good and will mean they will be enticed to spend more. That could be in the club, or it could be in the stadium itself. Remember, higher attendances and more events mean higher receipts at the hotel. Add on other facilities and it’s even more true. Go ambitious and build a stadium bigger than Ashton gate and we become the first choice for big events and other sporting fixtures. Supporters are very quick to mark the Al Qadis as the villains when it is more plausible it was just a sh** deal otherwise they would have never bought us or they would be well on the way to moving us over by now to the UWE stadium.
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Post by tomylil on Jun 19, 2019 16:51:27 GMT
Lansdown owns the land though does he not whereas the AQ's never could so far as my memory serves me. Who is to say that revenue generated from a hotel down in BS3 goes to the football club ? I bet that doesn't happen south of the river, nor all the revenue from flogging Ashton Vale for residential use. This is payback time for the Lord of Guernsey for all the millions he has pumped in, and will not doubt continue to do (lady garden) Not necessarily will come to the club but if it makes the deal more feasible then it’s all good and will mean they will be enticed to spend more. That could be in the club, or it could be in the stadium itself. Remember, higher attendances and more events mean higher receipts at the hotel. Add on other facilities and it’s even more true. Go ambitious and build a stadium bigger than Ashton gate and we become the first choice for big events and other sporting fixtures. Supporters are very quick to mark the Al Qadis as the villains when it is more plausible it was just a sh** deal otherwise they would have never bought us or they would be well on the way to moving us over by now to the UWE stadium. Fair enough, I just have the impression that in serious football terms (even L1) the AQ's don't have a pot to water in, and need somehow to get out of the financial bind they now find themselves in. In real terms, some third party will be looking for a guaranteed return on a minimum £40m investment and that takes up the money you would like spending on players. A hotel operator will do likewise of they are expected to find the entire build and land acquisition/infrastructure costs. If we had the land to put into the mix, then fine, but we don't and our collateral is now fully charged I would imagine.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 19, 2019 17:28:57 GMT
Not necessarily will come to the club but if it makes the deal more feasible then it’s all good and will mean they will be enticed to spend more. That could be in the club, or it could be in the stadium itself. Remember, higher attendances and more events mean higher receipts at the hotel. Add on other facilities and it’s even more true. Go ambitious and build a stadium bigger than Ashton gate and we become the first choice for big events and other sporting fixtures. Supporters are very quick to mark the Al Qadis as the villains when it is more plausible it was just a sh** deal otherwise they would have never bought us or they would be well on the way to moving us over by now to the UWE stadium. Fair enough, I just have the impression that in serious football terms (even L1) the AQ's don't have a pot to water in, and need somehow to get out of the financial bind they now find themselves in. In real terms, some third party will be looking for a guaranteed return on a minimum £40m investment and that takes up the money you would like spending on players. A hotel operator will do likewise of they are expected to find the entire build and land acquisition/infrastructure costs. If we had the land to put into the mix, then fine, but we don't and our collateral is now fully charged I would imagine. Problem is we've no idea what money the ALQ's have got or even who is really funding Dwane Sports, they seem to be still spending a lot of money this summer, compared to the Higgs/Dunford's eras, for somebody who doesn't have a pot to water, it may well be being secured against the Mem but it's still being spent against their investment and there's no obvious need for them to continue spending on the Academy & Development Squad if they really wanted to cut costs. Likewise we don't know what agreement was reached regarding the HP land, it could be they were happy to let the UWE sell the land if they promised to reinvest the money received back into the UWE site.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 19, 2019 17:32:37 GMT
No one knows the truth but I always think it's best to take the opportunity to slag our owners off and assume they are to blame rather than supporting them and trying to help take the club forward in whatever way that is.
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Post by Big Jock on Jun 19, 2019 17:45:45 GMT
No one knows the truth but I always think it's best to take the opportunity to slag our owners off and assume they are to blame rather than supporting them and trying to help take the club forward in whatever way that is. I agree. Lets hold a kangaroo court and hang th bastards.... even though nobody actually knows what they're doin behind th scenes.
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Post by rememberhalifax on Jun 19, 2019 18:14:24 GMT
Talking of building new grounds did you know the new north stand at Eastville was built summer 1958 in 14 weeks!(yes 14 weeks!)at cost of 60000 grand!just saying to highlight how evolution seems to take much longer now!i mean is the TV gantry finished yet?
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Post by daniel300380 on Jun 19, 2019 19:25:26 GMT
It was, essentially sold for a nominal fee to UWE, for university use. That codicil would either need to be removed, or in the old stadium plans argue that the teaching space, use of car park during the week, employment for students, naming of stadium etc. was good enough to constitute University use. That was how I remember it, so why did Wael and his cronies think they could buy the actual land? If it was as reported a peppercorn rent for 125 years why the need to own the actual land? All this is part of why I doubt the Al Qadi version of events. Was it because if they owned the land they could build a hotel on it? I can quite well believe that they took something that was maybe a bit archaic, but not broken and destroyed it trying to make it future proof for a future that was never going to come. If we owned the land, we could have done what we wanted with the stadium. We wouldn't have been giving away naming rights, potential money streams, it wouldn't have included lecture halls and a jogging track for the university etc. Wael said all along if Uwe went ahead, we would have had to reapply for planning anyway. Doubt he was happy with the old plans.
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Post by tomylil on Jun 19, 2019 21:36:16 GMT
That was how I remember it, so why did Wael and his cronies think they could buy the actual land? If it was as reported a peppercorn rent for 125 years why the need to own the actual land? All this is part of why I doubt the Al Qadi version of events. Was it because if they owned the land they could build a hotel on it? I can quite well believe that they took something that was maybe a bit archaic, but not broken and destroyed it trying to make it future proof for a future that was never going to come. If we owned the land, we could have done what we wanted with the stadium. We wouldn't have been giving away naming rights, potential money streams, it wouldn't have included lecture halls and a jogging track for the university etc. Wael said all along if Uwe went ahead, we would have had to reapply for planning anyway. Doubt he was happy with the old plans. Absolutely. So we should have walked away from discussions immediately AQ's took over. UWE would never sell the site (probably couldn't) so a waste of everyone's time.
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Post by tomylil on Jun 19, 2019 21:38:50 GMT
Fair enough, I just have the impression that in serious football terms (even L1) the AQ's don't have a pot to water in, and need somehow to get out of the financial bind they now find themselves in. In real terms, some third party will be looking for a guaranteed return on a minimum £40m investment and that takes up the money you would like spending on players. A hotel operator will do likewise of they are expected to find the entire build and land acquisition/infrastructure costs. If we had the land to put into the mix, then fine, but we don't and our collateral is now fully charged I would imagine. Problem is we've no idea what money the ALQ's have got or even who is really funding Dwane Sports, they seem to be still spending a lot of money this summer, compared to the Higgs/Dunford's eras, for somebody who doesn't have a pot to water, it may well be being secured against the Mem but it's still being spent against their investment and there's no obvious need for them to continue spending on the Academy & Development Squad if they really wanted to cut costs. Likewise we don't know what agreement was reached regarding the HP land, it could be they were happy to let the UWE sell the land if they promised to reinvest the money received back into the UWE site. It's a matter of record what the AQ's have which in terms of building a stadium is unrealistic, and they aren't really spending that much are they. The only way anything happens is if they get funding from a third party, or sell.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 22:07:47 GMT
No one knows the truth but I always think it's best to take the opportunity to slag our owners off and assume they are to blame rather than supporting them and trying to help take the club forward in whatever way that is. I try to remain as objective as possible so I won’t support the AQ’s just because. All I know is we had a deal on the table that was considered good for the club by the old board and the UWE were happy. The Al Qadi’s rock up and it all goes to s*** so for me the onus is on them first and foremost to explain what went wrong. We’ll never be given a categorical reason that the UWE can then have right of reply on because confidentiality, so in the absence of that explanation exists a vacuum which is filled by speculation, trying to stop speculation is like trying to catch the rain. That’s kind of how it will always be, until a Wael releases his book anyway....
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 19, 2019 22:13:51 GMT
Problem is we've no idea what money the ALQ's have got or even who is really funding Dwane Sports, they seem to be still spending a lot of money this summer, compared to the Higgs/Dunford's eras, for somebody who doesn't have a pot to water, it may well be being secured against the Mem but it's still being spent against their investment and there's no obvious need for them to continue spending on the Academy & Development Squad if they really wanted to cut costs. Likewise we don't know what agreement was reached regarding the HP land, it could be they were happy to let the UWE sell the land if they promised to reinvest the money received back into the UWE site. It's a matter of record what the AQ's have which in terms of building a stadium is unrealistic, and they aren't really spending that much are they. The only way anything happens is if they get funding from a third party, or sell. In my opinion, third party funding (at least in part) was always the plan but only for the right project and rate of return. For whatever reason, UWE would not provide the return to release the funds.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 22:17:36 GMT
Interesting point KP. UWE v2 was not in the public domain. There had been rumours, but the last from Wael on the subject was that all talks with UWE were dead - he said this in August 2017. It was exactly the same time that Steve Hamer said that negotiations with UWE weren't dead and that in football "you never know". Anyway - that interview: GT: "A lot of people thought the problem was ownership, who owned the land, who had to pay this and that, and you thought you'd ironed it out". WAQ: "We had the best deal for the club which was, uh, freehold. However it's their right, they wanted better use of the land for their own purposes. That is their prerogative".WAQ was very "matter of fact" about it. I still can't get my head round why. So for me it's either: 1. Wael made reference to UWE negotiations, but not enough to break an NDA and he has done all he could legally to cover "what went wrong". Or, 2. Wael hid behind NDA's to cover up why the deal fell through. Perhaps because it was all around Dwane Sports / their investors were not able to make enough money out of the deal. What were the "astronomical last minute demands made by UWE that scuppered the deal"? Ah Catch 22 - see point 1. Take your pick. For me it all boils down to a lack of communication with the fan base which has led to divisions between those that trust Dwane Sports, and those that do not. For the sake of the Football Club it would obviously be healthy if these divisions could be healed. Concrete plans for a new Stadium and/or Training Facilities would do the job. I wait. But not as patiently as others. Wasn't the land formerly owned by, then granted to UWE by Hewlett Packard for further university related use ? If so, then a sell on would have been a non starter surely ? What organisation would give land away to a public body so that they could flog it to a commercial entity. If it wasn't former HP land then apologies in advance. Yes, a restrictive covenant.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 22:23:52 GMT
Wasn't the land formerly owned by, then granted to UWE by Hewlett Packard for further university related use ? If so, then a sell on would have been a non starter surely ? What organisation would give land away to a public body so that they could flog it to a commercial entity. If it wasn't former HP land then apologies in advance. Yes, a restrictive covenant. How long did it take the Al Qadi's to figure this out? Surely they should have known a covenant was in place as part of their due diligence as it had been mentioned by the media when Higgs brokered the original deal. It beggars belief that Wael thought he could negotiate.
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