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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jun 20, 2019 11:52:07 GMT
Yeah, I also try to remain objective too but my default position is to support them until I have good reason and evidence not to. They have explained that the UWE deal was not good for the football club. It may have been good for the old board, but frankly they were more desperate than our new owners.I will support them just because. Because they are our owners. We should all be working together to help the club, not constantly sniping from the wings with absolutely no proof that they are bad owners. Here is the distinction Hugo. Good for the club but not good for the new board. I think personally that the club is in a worse position now than it was when they came in. That is evident surely and not conjecture or sniping ? Meanwhile we have another club happy to operate on a 50 year lease that has just been extended to 250 and they have managed to develop a good ground in limited space already never mind what they intend to do next.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48680944
The old board saw no problem with a 125 year lease and neither did the late Geoff Dunford. I would trust GD to do the right thing for the football club 1,000 x more than the duplicitous and weak Wael and his disinterested family.
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Post by aghast on Jun 20, 2019 11:53:45 GMT
OK stand corrected, but the debt was nothing compared to where we are now. A sale of the Mem would have wiped that out and still enabled us to put a meaningful sum into the mixer. That debt was to other people though. This debt is to the owners anyway. Is there a real difference? If someone lends us £20m, we owe them £20m plus interest. The Al-Qadis extend our credit to £20m, and we owe them £20m plus interest.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 20, 2019 11:53:53 GMT
What do you mean that we had 'no debt on the Mem'? The Wonga loan was charged on the Mem the same as DS have a charge now. Had Higgs failed to make the interest or loan repayments the Mem could have been taken exactly the same as now.... And a loan shark is more likely to call on his charge than our current owners. Doesn't make them right but it is incorrect to say there was no debt on the Mem at that time. OK stand corrected, but the debt was nothing compared to where we are now. A sale of the Mem would have wiped that out and still enabled us to put a meaningful sum into the mixer. How much and where would we play?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2019 12:00:16 GMT
Here is the distinction Hugo. Good for the club but not good for the new board. I think personally that the club is in a worse position now than it was when they came in. That is evident surely and not conjecture or sniping ? Meanwhile we have another club happy to operate on a 50 year lease that has just been extended to 250 and they have managed to develop a good ground in limited space already never mind what they intend to do next.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48680944
The old board saw no problem with a 125 year lease and neither did the late Geoff Dunford. I would trust GD to do the right thing for the football club 1,000 x more than the duplicitous and weak Wael and his disinterested family.
When and how has he been duplicitous and weak? You got me on the family, I don't think they are interested.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 20, 2019 12:14:37 GMT
Here is the distinction Hugo. Good for the club but not good for the new board. I think personally that the club is in a worse position now than it was when they came in. That is evident surely and not conjecture or sniping ? Meanwhile we have another club happy to operate on a 50 year lease that has just been extended to 250 and they have managed to develop a good ground in limited space already never mind what they intend to do next.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48680944
The old board saw no problem with a 125 year lease and neither did the late Geoff Dunford. I would trust GD to do the right thing for the football club 1,000 x more than the duplicitous and weak Wael and his disinterested family.
When did the last local council evict a football league club? It's a bit different than leasing from a private concern, just look at the mess Coventry City. Don't forget GD introduced NH to the board and that ended with us in the Conference then a narrow escape from going into Admin, not every decision he made was the right one plus he never managed to redevelop the Mem.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2019 12:17:15 GMT
Meanwhile we have another club happy to operate on a 50 year lease that has just been extended to 250 and they have managed to develop a good ground in limited space already never mind what they intend to do next.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48680944
The old board saw no problem with a 125 year lease and neither did the late Geoff Dunford. I would trust GD to do the right thing for the football club 1,000 x more than the duplicitous and weak Wael and his disinterested family.
When did the last local council evict a football league club? It's a bit different than leasing from a private concern, just look at the mess Coventry City. Don't forget GD introduced NH to the board and that ended with us in the Conference then a narrow escape from going into Admin, not every decision he made was the right one plus he never managed to redevelop the Mem. Or deliver a stadium
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 12:18:19 GMT
Meanwhile we have another club happy to operate on a 50 year lease that has just been extended to 250 and they have managed to develop a good ground in limited space already never mind what they intend to do next.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48680944
The old board saw no problem with a 125 year lease and neither did the late Geoff Dunford. I would trust GD to do the right thing for the football club 1,000 x more than the duplicitous and weak Wael and his disinterested family.
When did the last local council evict a football league club? It's a bit different than leasing from a private concern, just look at the mess Coventry City. Don't forget GD introduced NH to the board and that ended with us in the Conference then a narrow escape from going into Admin, not every decision he made was the right one plus he never managed to redevelop the Mem. All true Topper but to give GD credit he did manage to secure the freehold ownership of The Memorial Stadium. The introduction of NH was unforgivable though.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jun 20, 2019 12:30:38 GMT
When did the last local council evict a football league club? It's a bit different than leasing from a private concern, just look at the mess Coventry City. Don't forget GD introduced NH to the board and that ended with us in the Conference then a narrow escape from going into Admin, not every decision he made was the right one plus he never managed to redevelop the Mem. Or deliver a stadium He is the ONLY owner to deliver a Stadium to the club’s ownership. We were out on our arse on our way to be tenants of a non league club in a different city when he took over.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 12:35:07 GMT
He is the ONLY owner to deliver a Stadium to the club’s ownership. We were out on our arse on our way to be tenants of a non league club in a different city when he took over. First part is true but it was GD's decision to take us to Bath and I'm not saying that it was the wrong one.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2019 12:44:32 GMT
He is the ONLY owner to deliver a Stadium to the club’s ownership. We were out on our arse on our way to be tenants of a non league club in a different city when he took over. I meant NH didn't deliver a stadium
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jun 20, 2019 12:49:26 GMT
Meanwhile we have another club happy to operate on a 50 year lease that has just been extended to 250 and they have managed to develop a good ground in limited space already never mind what they intend to do next.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48680944
The old board saw no problem with a 125 year lease and neither did the late Geoff Dunford. I would trust GD to do the right thing for the football club 1,000 x more than the duplicitous and weak Wael and his disinterested family.
When and how has he been duplicitous and weak? You got me on the family, I don't think they are interested. There are many times he has been weak when bad news needs to be communicated to supporters. He went into hiding when UWE collapsed leaving Hamer to face the press and his car crash crazy gang, making it up as he went along performance. At a time that people were looking to the president to show leadership he was nowhere to be seen or heard. Hiding away from the people who were carrying him down the Gloucester Rd only the year before. Duplicitous. The we don’t need the Sainsbury’s statement when they came in. The we are going to redevelop the Mem statement. The we are going to develop a training ground statement. All not true and duplicitous When someone says so many things (and there are more) that are not true why anyone believes anything he says is true is beyond me. So on the collapse of UWE I’m not inclined to believe his version of events either, or that they are working on redevelopment or purchase of anything else. He’s probably a nice enough person and I know we could have worse owners but in my view he neither has the strength or wherewithal to give this club a Stadium fit for the modern day or training facilities to match.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 13:13:29 GMT
When and how has he been duplicitous and weak? You got me on the family, I don't think they are interested. There are many times he has been weak when bad news needs to be communicated to supporters. He went into hiding when UWE collapsed leaving Hamer to face the press and his car crash crazy gang, making it up as he went along performance. At a time that people were looking to the president to show leadership he was nowhere to be seen or heard. Hiding away from the people who were carrying him down the Gloucester Rd only the year before. Duplicitous. The we don’t need the Sainsbury’s statement when they came in. The we are going to redevelop the Mem statement. The we are going to develop a training ground statement. All not true and duplicitous When someone says so many things (and there are more) that are not true why anyone believes anything he says is true is beyond me. So on the collapse of UWE I’m not inclined to believe his version of events either, or that they are working on redevelopment or purchase of anything else. He’s probably a nice enough person and I know we could have worse owners but in my view he neither has the strength or wherewithal to give this club a Stadium fit for the modern day or training facilities to match. Hard to argue with any of that and this post makes me question my loyalty. Is it blind faith? Hope? or good old stupidity. I have reasons to believe (like many others) that there is something rumbling, like a slow freight train, on the tracks of positivity and through a tunnel which leads to a glorious station of hope where certain people will step off and others will get on. Some may not heed the "Mind The Gap" signs and disappear between the train and platform into the chasm of despair. Sorry i like an analogy. Lets see but there is something bubbling.
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Post by aghast on Jun 20, 2019 13:20:36 GMT
There are many times he has been weak when bad news needs to be communicated to supporters. He went into hiding when UWE collapsed leaving Hamer to face the press and his car crash crazy gang, making it up as he went along performance. At a time that people were looking to the president to show leadership he was nowhere to be seen or heard. Hiding away from the people who were carrying him down the Gloucester Rd only the year before. Duplicitous. The we don’t need the Sainsbury’s statement when they came in. The we are going to redevelop the Mem statement. The we are going to develop a training ground statement. All not true and duplicitous When someone says so many things (and there are more) that are not true why anyone believes anything he says is true is beyond me. So on the collapse of UWE I’m not inclined to believe his version of events either, or that they are working on redevelopment or purchase of anything else. He’s probably a nice enough person and I know we could have worse owners but in my view he neither has the strength or wherewithal to give this club a Stadium fit for the modern day or training facilities to match. Hard to argue with any of that and this post makes me question my loyalty. Is it blind faith? Hope? or good old stupidity. I have reasons to believe (like many others) that there is something rumbling, like a slow freight train, on the tracks of positivity and through a tunnel which leads to a glorious station of hope where certain people will step off and others will get on. Some may not heed the "Mind The Gap" signs and disappear between the train and platform into the chasm of despair. Sorry i like an analogy. Lets see but there is something bubbling. Not sure what leads you or anyone else to be hopeful. Based on their track record to date, I would have thought solid pessimism would be the way to go, unless you're willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, based on a vague feeling, for years and years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 13:21:56 GMT
Hard to argue with any of that and this post makes me question my loyalty. Is it blind faith? Hope? or good old stupidity. I have reasons to believe (like many others) that there is something rumbling, like a slow freight train, on the tracks of positivity and through a tunnel which leads to a glorious station of hope where certain people will step off and others will get on. Some may not heed the "Mind The Gap" signs and disappear between the train and platform into the chasm of despair. Sorry i like an analogy. Lets see but there is something bubbling. Not sure what leads you or anyone else to be hopeful. Based on their track record to date, I would have thought solid pessimism would be the way to go, unless you're willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, based on a vague feeling, for years and years. What track record? I am not talking about incumbents.
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Post by aghast on Jun 20, 2019 13:35:56 GMT
Not sure what leads you or anyone else to be hopeful. Based on their track record to date, I would have thought solid pessimism would be the way to go, unless you're willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, based on a vague feeling, for years and years. What track record? I am not talking about incumbents. I defy anyone to read your previous post and think you were not talking about incumbents.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 13:42:51 GMT
What track record? I am not talking about incumbents. I defy anyone to read your previous post and think you were not talking about incumbents. Certain people will step off and others will get on?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 13:43:11 GMT
Ladies and Gentlemen. Enough please. We are going nowhere with these owners. Just accept it. IF, and it's a massive IF, they do actually manage to produce a stadium, then fantastic, but let's just drop all the false hope.
We are Rag Bag Rovers, always have been, always will be. Life is so much easier if we all accept that, then if something good does come along, it's a huge Brucey Bonus !
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Post by tomylil on Jun 20, 2019 13:57:17 GMT
That debt was to other people though. This debt is to the owners anyway. Is there a real difference? If someone lends us £20m, we owe them £20m plus interest. The Al-Qadis extend our credit to £20m, and we owe them £20m plus interest. And they are not wealthy enough to write that off. So it's debt.
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Post by tomylil on Jun 20, 2019 14:00:55 GMT
OK stand corrected, but the debt was nothing compared to where we are now. A sale of the Mem would have wiped that out and still enabled us to put a meaningful sum into the mixer. How much and where would we play? Crossed wires here ? My comments are in the context of the club having done the deal on the table with UWE back then. Even after the loan was paid off we would surely have had £10m at least to put into the pot, and that amount of collateral enables you to borrow more. I am sure that Higgs and co had plans in place to move to Bath, Cheltenham or Newport for 2/3 seasons whilst it was all happening, just like when the Mem was to have been redeveloped.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 20, 2019 14:19:47 GMT
How much and where would we play? Crossed wires here ? My comments are in the context of the club having done the deal on the table with UWE back then. Even after the loan was paid off we would surely have had £10m at least to put into the pot, and that amount of collateral enables you to borrow more. I am sure that Higgs and co had plans in place to move to Bath, Cheltenham or Newport for 2/3 seasons whilst it was all happening, just like when the Mem was to have been redeveloped. Probably crossed wires 😁 Having said that, didn't UWE want us debt free before moving in or is that a Gaschat myth?
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