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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 6, 2019 15:28:10 GMT
I think it would be a far better option than out of town greenfield site
a isore ugly nineteen hundreds brownfield site next to arena site to be developed with private money to assist the council with redevelopment
transport links in place road/rail
with modern architectural technics could look fantastic certainly better than tall office blocks
assisted by automatic footfall for retail/pubs/eateries/hotels
not a residential area to upset locals
a lot of industry moving out of town for better access to ring road/motorways modern buildings etc...
bloody hell I've gone and sold it to myself 
I would suggest that we are at saturation point in terms of eateries, retail and pubs. Those places rely upon constant footfall and unlike Cribbs the road infrastructure is terrible, and I cannot personally see people getting the train to then walk a mile to go for a beer, meal or a spot of retail therapy. What is happening with the arena site incidentally ? That would surely happen first as it is nearest to Temple Quarter. |
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Post by tomylil on Aug 6, 2019 15:41:50 GMT
I think we should not under estimate the desire for Bristol City Council to keep Rovers inside the city boundary. If nothing else because they would not want South Glos Council to have a stadium :-) Understood but they cannot do anything other than treat us like any other commercial enterprise otherwise they would be royally f**ked and have an Ombudsman all over them. You can bet your last penny that Lansdown would play up if we paid anything other than full market value (excuse pun) |
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Post by lpgas on Aug 6, 2019 15:46:37 GMT
I would suggest that we are at saturation point in terms of eateries, retail and pubs. Those places rely upon constant footfall and unlike Cribbs the road infrastructure is terrible, and I cannot personally see people getting the train to then walk a mile to go for a beer, meal or a spot of retail therapy. What is happening with the arena site incidentally ? That would surely happen first as it is nearest to Temple Quarter. Brownfield sites make it more likely you can build something on them as part of a re development , but they are more expensive in so far you have to take up all the rubble, pipes and any WW" 2 bombs you may find. I wonder if the "New ground" will have a roof, because that is then easily turned in to an "arena". I am a bit suspicious of a multi sport stadium, it suggests there will be a track and you are sitting 200 yards form the pitch. They are an atmosphere killer. don't worry about the transport, we can have a Tram, Underground, or Metro bus  |
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Post by tomylil on Aug 6, 2019 15:55:54 GMT
I would suggest that we are at saturation point in terms of eateries, retail and pubs. Those places rely upon constant footfall and unlike Cribbs the road infrastructure is terrible, and I cannot personally see people getting the train to then walk a mile to go for a beer, meal or a spot of retail therapy. What is happening with the arena site incidentally ? That would surely happen first as it is nearest to Temple Quarter. Thanks Topper. The arena site will be the priority for the Council and quite right too as it is cleared at our expense and nearest to the existing "new" devlopments so can benefit from in place infrastructure. I would find it dificult to justify a council led development of the fruit market whilst the arena site is happening, and note that the proposals include a big ish hotel conferencing and retail, so three of the uses generally deemed vital as part of a stadium development. Avon Meads is also just down the road and has plenty of retail a cinema, bowling and some (not many) eateries. As I said, surely saturation point for leisure outlets in what would still be "out of town" |
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Post by aghast on Aug 6, 2019 16:34:45 GMT
It would be a fantastic site in terms of proximity to the centre, publicity and prestige, and would put Ashton Gate firmly in the shade.
In fact it's a great location for most people, apart from our core fanbase in North East Bristol, who will find getting to and from the fruit market a pain in the avocado.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 16:40:38 GMT
If there is a fruit market there, surely the land cannot be contaminated? Why would it require a 'clean up'? before it was a fruit market is was an old shunting yard for steam loco's so some contamination is possible Quite right Henbury. It was built on the site of St Phillips Marsh engine sheds. This was a large engine shed with two roundhouses and workshop shed alongside. The site closed in the mid sixties and was demolished. Further down the line to what is now the causeway was a diesel engine shed where the Pullman and then intercity 125's were stored and maintained. Not sure about this shed now as have not been in the area for quite sometime. As regards other business that was in the adjacent area, there were a number of engineering firms including Strachan and Henshaw which moved to opposite the city ground many years ago. There has never been any chemical companies in that area but there have been a number of scrapyards etc in recent times and more recently more warehousing types of business. As regards pollution Bristol dogs home is just around the corner and I'm quite sure they have been using poo bags for many years so that should not be an issue. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 16:52:29 GMT
It does seem strange doesn't it.... A David and Total produce pretty much supply all the veg for schools, hospitals, nursing homes, pubs and hotels around the west country.... I don't recall ever seeing any delivery's coated in coal dust.... The contamination is in the underlying made up ground. The nature of this ground means contaminating fluids will have found it easy to permeate. This means that when digging for piling and/or foundations all this contamination will be disturbed. it will also make it difficult/costly to dispose of the made ground safely. The current activities at the site are not intrusive to the ground so do not pose any issues. Never been any chemical company's in the area, just engineering companies and the old steam engine sheds on which the site of the fruit market is built. Avon mouth had loads of chemical works, the old smelter etc and now most of these sites are now built on with wine bottling plant,food warehouses of all types etc etc. The clean up of these sites happened in no time and warehouses shot up in no time, piles driven in, steel erected and areas concreted over. As an aside the council were proposing to build the arena on part of the site of the former Bath road Steam and later diesel engine sheds, so that would suggest they were not put off by any polluted ground issues. |
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Post by aghast on Aug 6, 2019 17:08:04 GMT
The contamination is in the underlying made up ground. The nature of this ground means contaminating fluids will have found it easy to permeate. This means that when digging for piling and/or foundations all this contamination will be disturbed. it will also make it difficult/costly to dispose of the made ground safely. The current activities at the site are not intrusive to the ground so do not pose any issues. Never been any chemical company's in the area, just engineering companies and the old steam engine sheds on which the site of the fruit market is built. Avon mouth had loads of chemical works, the old smelter etc and now most of these sites are now built on with wine bottling plant,food warehouses of all types etc etc. The clean up of these sites happened in no time and warehouses shot up in no time, piles driven in, steel erected and areas concreted over. As an aside the council were proposing to build the arena on part of the site of the former Bath road Steam and later diesel engine sheds, so that would suggest they were not put off by any polluted ground issues. So lots of oil, acids, alkalis, detergents, paint strippers, and other nice stuff then. |
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Post by Smithy Gas on Aug 6, 2019 17:08:51 GMT
I've not responded to this thread since the news broke because, well, there isn't really any news and I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said in terms of speculation. However due to occupational hazard I can certainly cast a bit of light on the area and what is happening. Most people know that this area is seen as a huge development brownfield site and that the centre is drifting Eastward towards BTM and beyond with the new Bristol University Campus being a major driver of this. They already have an application in for reserved matters on the old arena site for new student housing and their influence hasn't ended there. They have purchased land on the other side of the river nestled amongst applications for more student housing - see graphic below: 
That graphic shows the extent of current sprawl towards the fruit market and is certainly not prescriptive. There is a recent refusal for a large development on the corner of Feeder Road and Short St leading directly to the FM site and plenty of other businesses along the way are looking to cash in on this redevelopment opportunity. What does this mean for Rovers and the Fruit Market? Who knows! I think it very likely we may have bid on the site and I think the site is certainly a viable one considering location. I also think for it to be casually dropped into an interview rather than to be formally released there is some sort of brinkmanship going on from Wael. I also think things may be a whole lot further than has been let on thus far, the only way of knowing only being given publicly by an announcement or an application (Pre App in private). One thing is for sure, if nothing comes of this then Wael has made an even bigger rod for his back by mentioning a site and I don't see why he would do so - he gets enough stick as it is! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 17:18:58 GMT
The contamination is in the underlying made up ground. The nature of this ground means contaminating fluids will have found it easy to permeate. This means that when digging for piling and/or foundations all this contamination will be disturbed. it will also make it difficult/costly to dispose of the made ground safely. The current activities at the site are not intrusive to the ground so do not pose any issues. Never been any chemical company's in the area, just engineering companies and the old steam engine sheds on which the site of the fruit market is built. Avon mouth had loads of chemical works, the old smelter etc and now most of these sites are now built on with wine bottling plant,food warehouses of all types etc etc. The clean up of these sites happened in no time and warehouses shot up in no time, piles driven in, steel erected and areas concreted over. As an aside the council were proposing to build the arena on part of the site of the former Bath road Steam and later diesel engine sheds, so that would suggest they were not put off by any polluted ground issues. Diesel is one of the hardest contaminants to get rid of. The sites in Avonmouth you mention will mostly be portal frame style steel erections. These require very little piling to gain suitable foundation. The term made up ground is more the issue than the contaminated ground as it means further to go for stability but hey let’s see eh. That’s all someone else’s headache we just have to worry about whether it will happen. |
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Post by blueridge on Aug 6, 2019 17:22:42 GMT
If the President of our football club is saying that this site can be purchased, outline planning permission approved within the overall long term development aims of the whole area, detailed stadium plans drawn up and agreed and a stadium built and functional within two years, reeks of pure fantasy or in plain language bullshit. Who is he trying to kid?
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Post by singupgas on Aug 6, 2019 18:05:21 GMT
If the President of our football club is saying that this site can be purchased, outline planning permission approved within the overall long term development aims of the whole area, detailed stadium plans drawn up and agreed and a stadium built and functional within two years, reeks of pure fantasy or in plain language bullshit. Who is he trying to kid? Blue I agree with a lot of your posts, but I think realistically if we are actually bulldozing/building within next 6 months most would be happy... you are right fully functioning stadium is more realistically 3 years away...but who knows, Wael has made a rod for his own back, hopefully he is committed to this idea and seeing it through as soon as possible. |
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Post by Hudson1883 on Aug 6, 2019 18:07:11 GMT
If the President of our football club is saying that this site can be purchased, outline planning permission approved within the overall long term development aims of the whole area, detailed stadium plans drawn up and agreed and a stadium built and functional within two years, reeks of pure fantasy or in plain language bullshit. Who is he trying to kid? Or option 3, as I’ve previously stated, the entire thing is a lot further along than he has let on in said interview? |
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Post by dragonfly on Aug 6, 2019 19:36:25 GMT
Perhaps Wael could explain (if he reads this forum)why a confidentiality clause appears not to apply to the Fruit Market announcement last Saturday.
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Post by gregsy on Aug 6, 2019 19:42:04 GMT
Perhaps Wael could explain (if he reads this forum)why a confidentiality clause appears not to apply to the Fruit Market announcement last Saturday. He didn't mention any agreements or contacts, just that it was a preferred location.... |
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 6, 2019 19:43:45 GMT
If the President of our football club is saying that this site can be purchased, outline planning permission approved within the overall long term development aims of the whole area, detailed stadium plans drawn up and agreed and a stadium built and functional within two years, reeks of pure fantasy or in plain language bullshit. Who is he trying to kid? Or option 3, as I’ve previously stated, the entire thing is a lot further along than he has let on in said interview? You may have stated it but there's zero evidence to disprove what Nick Matthews tweeted yesterday "No offer has been accepted. No planning process has started@waelalqadi" |
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Post by Hudson1883 on Aug 6, 2019 19:48:40 GMT
Or option 3, as I’ve previously stated, the entire thing is a lot further along than he has let on in said interview? You may have stated it but there's zero evidence to disprove what Nick Matthews tweeted yesterday "No offer has been accepted. No planning process has started@waelalqadi" It remains the same as every situation at Rovers then, a handful of people know exactly what is going on 100% down to the latest, finest detail. And not one of them use this message board. |
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Post by dragonfly on Aug 6, 2019 21:47:59 GMT
Is the pub referred to as the Thunderbolt related to the 1953 film "The Titfield Thunderbolt"?. There are two scenes in the film from a platform at Temple Meads with Totterdown in the background. Interesting but of history from the TB's website (that doesn't actually answer your question sorry! Thought it was cool to know though!) www.thethunderbolt.net/locationandcontactAround 1826 T.L.S. Rowbotham painted a watercolour: View from the Bath Road through the Brislington Turnpike. There is a small cluster of buildings on Totterdown, whilst below the wide carriageway dominates the picture as it follows the curve of the river in an extravagant sweep. In a similar way the history of Totterdown seems dominated by roads. One of its earliest mentions is that in 1642, at the time of the Civil War, a small fort or earthwork known as a sconce was built there 'to command the southern road'. A hundred years later, in 1748, a new Turnpike Act came into force and gates were erected all around the city, so people using the road had to pay tolls. This so enraged the Somerset country people that they marched in protest against the Totterdown gate and began smashing it down. A force headed by the Sheriffs with officers, constables, several Turnpike commissioners and a party of sailors armed with staves arrived on the scene before the demolition was completed and drove them off, wounding some and taking about 30 prisoner. The name of the Turnpike Inn, the Victorian Gothic Grade II listed building on the Bath Road, is a reminder of those times. Almost another century passed and the trustees of the Bristol turnpikes decided to eradicate the steep gradient below Totterdown. The hill had been a constant cause of complaints from coachmen and was also prone to subsidence. The problem was resolved by digging a very deep cutting near the junction of the Bath and Wells Roads. Tolls on foot passengers and cattle were dropped in 1852 and in June 1863 the unpopular tolls were completely abolished. The Finger Post shown above is known as The Three Lamps and marks the junction of the Bath and Wells roads. Can't find a decent copy of that painting apart from this one www.jasna.org/persuasions/on-line/vol30no2/images/birchall-bath-road.jpgAnd for any one who's interested, that whole article is even more long winded than anything I can type, has a few other paintings of his of Bristol, but I haven't the heart to read so much Jane Austen history to realise what relevance they have to the article! www.jasna.org/persuasions/on-line/vol30no2/birchall.html?Now you can see how my mind goes off on tangents 😂 And... Breath 😉 I'll shut up now! Thanks for the interesting information which led me to contact the Thunderbolt Pub and a man named David replied saying that it was named after the Thunderbolt Steps 60 metres up the Bath Road that connects with Upper Totterdown. So, no Titfield Thunderbolt film connection - the Lion sleeps tonight. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 21:54:53 GMT
If the President of our football club is saying that this site can be purchased, outline planning permission approved within the overall long term development aims of the whole area, detailed stadium plans drawn up and agreed and a stadium built and functional within two years, reeks of pure fantasy or in plain language bullshit. Who is he trying to kid? Might be possible in Jordan and in China it would all be sorted in two months. |
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Post by walcotgas on Aug 6, 2019 22:02:49 GMT
Given that this announcement seems totally out of character with Wael, has anybody stopped to consider that the Fruit Market location maybe being used as a 'stalking horse to deflect attention and publicity from another location which is actually the preferred venue?
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