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Post by gasheadontour on Sept 18, 2019 17:17:00 GMT
I would expect JCH's agent to be asking for a pay-rise for his client.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 17:41:21 GMT
If Wael is doing the negotiating it will be a disaster. Before he came here JCH started well at Coventry then disappeared from the radar. He has two years left on his deal now, so why rush it, if he disappears again we could have another Kyle Bennett situation on our hands. You need experienced people dealing with this not Wael. The time to do it is next summer. Follow thePeterborough model. When you have a year left, offer the guy new terms and if he turns it down sell him. Talking of Wael, remember the 5 year deal for DC ? That was a lucky escape. Wonder if JCH will join Wasserman Agency through Jermaine Easter. Remember Bodin, Lockyer, The Snake ? Can't remember the other one. He seems to be undermining all the decent players we have. Personally, I would ban the bloke from the ground. He scored 4 goals in 21 games on loan before they decided to sign him on a permanent, his 4 goals came in 9 games then he didn’t score again before they signed him on a permanent deal so they obviously seen something in him to still offer him a deal even though he hadn’t scored in 12 games. Whilst he dropped off for them he was nowhere near his form here, which has been solid since the day he signed and he shows no signs of slowing down, trying to tie him to a new deal before January makes good sense to me when we are likely to lose him in that window, agogo and lambert both signed deals to make sure we got some decent cash and it would be decent of Jonno to do the same imo
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Post by peterhooper57 on Sept 18, 2019 17:44:37 GMT
I will be pleasantly surprised if JCH signs a renegotiated contract to stay at the MEM. Unfortunately, BRFC have never managed to keep any of their better players in the past, why would that change now ?
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Post by Langford Gas on Sept 18, 2019 17:48:46 GMT
Having read this thread no one seems to have considered that the club might have an option to extend , and that might have to be invoked by a certain time
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Post by warehamgas on Sept 18, 2019 18:11:22 GMT
If Wael is doing the negotiating it will be a disaster. Before he came here JCH started well at Coventry then disappeared from the radar. He has two years left on his deal now, so why rush it, if he disappears again we could have another Kyle Bennett situation on our hands. You need experienced people dealing with this not Wael. The time to do it is next summer. Follow thePeterborough model. When you have a year left, offer the guy new terms and if he turns it down sell him. Talking of Wael, remember the 5 year deal for DC ? That was a lucky escape. Wonder if JCH will join Wasserman Agency through Jermaine Easter. Remember Bodin, Lockyer, The Snake ? Can't remember the other one. He seems to be undermining all the decent players we have. Personally, I would ban the bloke from the ground. Agree. But that bit worries me. Do we have that experience in the Club? Martin Starnes? UTG!
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Post by gashead1981 on Sept 18, 2019 18:26:34 GMT
If Wael is doing the negotiating it will be a disaster. Before he came here JCH started well at Coventry then disappeared from the radar. He has two years left on his deal now, so why rush it, if he disappears again we could have another Kyle Bennett situation on our hands. You need experienced people dealing with this not Wael. The time to do it is next summer. Follow thePeterborough model. When you have a year left, offer the guy new terms and if he turns it down sell him. Talking of Wael, remember the 5 year deal for DC ? That was a lucky escape. Wonder if JCH will join Wasserman Agency through Jermaine Easter. Remember Bodin, Lockyer, The Snake ? Can't remember the other one. He seems to be undermining all the decent players we have. Personally, I would ban the bloke from the ground. You really are a pathetic and spiteful person with a clear vendetta towards our owner. It’s a shame you don’t have the balls to say it to his face. Or shall I say, make a coherent protestation towards him, unlike the attempt at the AGM. Wael has an experienced CEO in Martin Starnes. I’m sure he is very capable in handling the negotiations. What do you have against MS? Have you ever dealt with Wael in business? How do you know he would be a disaster? I doubt you have any evidence you could present where your personal dealings prove that to be the case. But we know evidence is not your strong suit. That has been witnessed. You also know little about players other than those at our club. JCH was very well regarded at Coventry, I watched him many times owing to the fact my father in law is a Coventry fan and he was often deployed as a an inside forward/winger or behind Conor Chaplin as a target man for him to win headers. Robins had major injuries on the left of midfield when he was there too, Jody Jones was a longtime absentee, Jordy Hiwula was considered too lightweight and Luke Thomas was tried there too but he’s an out and out box to box midfielder. I actually met JCHs agent last night, a nice fellow, clearly came to see his player and see where he was at. There was no suggestion from him he was engineering a move. But clearly a lot of goals in a certain amount of appearance earns you a rise and an extension. A player that is playing well and enjoying his football isn’t going to stop turning up. A player not getting on with the managers formation and sitting on the bench will upset him and cause that situation. As much as I can understand your frustration at a certain agency and their rep, when you have a couple of players influence other players to swap agents through another trusted pro then there isn’t much you can do. Players have the power these days and you can thank Marc Bosman for that.
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Post by gasheadontour on Sept 18, 2019 18:28:56 GMT
Having read this thread no one seems to have considered that the club might have an option to extend , and that might have to be invoked by a certain time
Options to extend a contract are usually only activated towards the end of a contract.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 18, 2019 18:30:03 GMT
I will be pleasantly surprised if JCH signs a renegotiated contract to stay at the MEM. Unfortunately, BRFC have never managed to keep any of their better players in the past, why would that change now ? Surely this isn't to keep him necessarily, but to be able to demand a higher fee?
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Post by gashead1981 on Sept 18, 2019 18:37:49 GMT
I will be pleasantly surprised if JCH signs a renegotiated contract to stay at the MEM. Unfortunately, BRFC have never managed to keep any of their better players in the past, why would that change now ? We are no different from any other club. Every player has its price whether you are Bristol Rovers or Man U.
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Post by Slide away on Sept 18, 2019 19:07:42 GMT
JCH agent is my concern- Just Google Dax Price...
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Post by bumble on Sept 18, 2019 19:09:45 GMT
What I’m trying to say is that we can change our approach sure but the club needs leverage to make a player sign and we don’t have much leverage to encourage a championship quality player to extend his contract at a club that isn’t looking like promotion contenders. Our main leverage is money but we don’t have much of that either. Personally I think the timing is suspect on our part too - offering to pay more to a player who, in all likelihood will not be here beyond the end of his current deal let alone any extension date. It makes sense to me for us to save the money on any increase and give him a take it or leave it offer at the end of this season and then sell for good money if he doesn’t fancy it, as gasincider suggested. I just don’t see how we are going to convince him to sign a new deal as the limit of what we can afford doesn’t compare with what he could earn by waiting. Same as with Lockyer really, we tried extending his contract way before he left but he was willing to play the long game and I can see that happening with JCH. Sure, but JCH with 12 months on his contract is worth what? JCH with 2 years in his contract is probably worth 50% more, comfortably. That’s just good business sense. If he wants a low release clause then we should say no and sell him in the summer. That way he won’t get his huge sign on fee as a free agent,, won’t get his higher wages with us and he will also need to play to his maximum until end of the season to get that summer move, otherwise he won’t even be going to the championship. Maybe I’m a rose tinter here, but you’re also being overly pessimistic IMO. JCH doesn’t hold all the power, he has more, but there are also things we can do, as I mentioned just above. We don’t have anything to lose by opening negotiations. If they don’t work out then no problem, we sell next year. But I am personally glad the club is finally willing to get ahead on contracts. We should have sold Lockyer the summer before he left IMO, but we were too slow to react Exactly how i see it. The leverage we have is that he still has 18 months left on his contract. Why would we agree to put in a low release clause which would give him opportunity to walk away for peanuts in January? I would hope that part of the negotiating strategy is to add or increase the release clause to an amount which is large enough to be palatable if met.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 21:19:13 GMT
Sure, but JCH with 12 months on his contract is worth what? JCH with 2 years in his contract is probably worth 50% more, comfortably. That’s just good business sense. If he wants a low release clause then we should say no and sell him in the summer. That way he won’t get his huge sign on fee as a free agent,, won’t get his higher wages with us and he will also need to play to his maximum until end of the season to get that summer move, otherwise he won’t even be going to the championship. Maybe I’m a rose tinter here, but you’re also being overly pessimistic IMO. JCH doesn’t hold all the power, he has more, but there are also things we can do, as I mentioned just above. We don’t have anything to lose by opening negotiations. If they don’t work out then no problem, we sell next year. But I am personally glad the club is finally willing to get ahead on contracts. We should have sold Lockyer the summer before he left IMO, but we were too slow to react Exactly how i see it. The leverage we have is that he still has 18 months left on his contract. Why would we agree to put in a low release clause which would give him opportunity to walk away for peanuts in January? I would hope that part of the negotiating strategy is to add or increase the release clause to an amount which is large enough to be palatable if met. But that's leverage we have over other clubs who want to sign him, not over the player himself. If we put another contract in front of him our position is basically: "Please JCH, please sign an extension for another couple of k a week (we are so heavily in debt as it is we won't be offering any more than that) to essentially be tied to the club into the mid 2020's, oh and there's no release clause either". As a player who is banging goals in for fun and whose stock is at an all time high, possibly the most coveted player outside the championship right now, ask yourself what the pros and cons are of signing that extension. Would you sign it?
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Post by bumble on Sept 18, 2019 22:26:26 GMT
Exactly how i see it. The leverage we have is that he still has 18 months left on his contract. Why would we agree to put in a low release clause which would give him opportunity to walk away for peanuts in January? I would hope that part of the negotiating strategy is to add or increase the release clause to an amount which is large enough to be palatable if met. But that's leverage we have over other clubs who want to sign him, not over the player himself. If we put another contract in front of him our position is basically: "Please JCH, please sign an extension for another couple of k a week (we are so heavily in debt as it is we won't be offering any more than that) to essentially be tied to the club into the mid 2020's, oh and there's no release clause either". As a player who is banging goals in for fun and whose stock is at an all time high, possibly the most coveted player outside the championship right now, ask yourself what the pros and cons are of signing that extension. Would you sign it? Whether he signs it or not would depend on how much extra we can afford to offer him, and i think we all know that we are unlikely to be able to offer him what other clubs are. My point was more around the club is doing the right thing by trying to pin him down to a longer contract but they surely won't do that at the cost of inserting a relatively low release clause. If he or his agent were to demand that, then we are better off walking away and letting him see out his contract. We would then, more than likely, end up accepting a reasonable offer in Jan or at the end of the season.
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Post by philbemmygas on Sept 19, 2019 6:50:14 GMT
Yeah let’s offer him a deal in his final year, because that’s never gone wrong for us Will we ever learn? Maybe Starnes is negotiating it as club CEO? Unless you just wanted to any excuse to put Wael down, which is very much unlike you or Knowall... Interesting that Easter & Holloway were guests of Hamer last night. There's me thinking they were there as part of the "Quest" EFL show, probably good that I knowfeckall
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2019 7:16:33 GMT
Interesting that Easter & Holloway were guests of Hamer last night. There's me thinking they were there as part of the "Quest" EFL show, probably good that I knowfeckall You are correct Phil he was guest in hospitality and doing an EFL show
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Post by Gassy on Sept 19, 2019 7:19:39 GMT
There's me thinking they were there as part of the "Quest" EFL show, probably good that I knowfeckall You are correct Phil he was guest in hospitality and doing an EFL show Ha! Knew it! I was shocked when I saw photos of Holloway there, I actually thought “my god, he’s finally come to attend a Rovers game - maybe he does support us like he says he does” - but as usual he was only there because he was paid to do so. What a surprise!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2019 8:20:31 GMT
You are correct Phil he was guest in hospitality and doing an EFL show Ha! Knew it! I was shocked when I saw photos of Holloway there, I actually thought “my god, he’s finally come to attend a Rovers game - maybe he does support us like he says he does” - but as usual he was only there because he was paid to do so. What a surprise! We haven’t paid him, he was due to do hospitality a we weeks back but pulled out as he was offered decent cash to go on talksport so rearranged for last night, Bob sorts the guests out for hospitality and is a mate of mine so I knew him coming along had been in the pipeline for an age . Not sure if he was being paid by whoever is doing the EFL show but you’d imagine so
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Post by Henbury Gas on Sept 19, 2019 8:33:40 GMT
If Wael is doing the negotiating it will be a disaster. Before he came here JCH started well at Coventry then disappeared from the radar. He has two years left on his deal now, so why rush it, if he disappears again we could have another Kyle Bennett situation on our hands. You need experienced people dealing with this not Wael. The time to do it is next summer. Follow thePeterborough model. When you have a year left, offer the guy new terms and if he turns it down sell him. Talking of Wael, remember the 5 year deal for DC ? That was a lucky escape. Wonder if JCH will join Wasserman Agency through Jermaine Easter. Remember Bodin, Lockyer, The Snake ? Can't remember the other one. He seems to be undermining all the decent players we have. Personally, I would ban the bloke from the ground. You really are a pathetic and spiteful person with a clear vendetta towards our owner. It’s a shame you don’t have the balls to say it to his face. Or shall I say, make a coherent protestation towards him, unlike the attempt at the AGM. Wael has an experienced CEO in Martin Starnes. I’m sure he is very capable in handling the negotiations. What do you have against MS? Have you ever dealt with Wael in business? How do you know he would be a disaster? I doubt you have any evidence you could present where your personal dealings prove that to be the case. But we know evidence is not your strong suit. That has been witnessed. You also know little about players other than those at our club. JCH was very well regarded at Coventry, I watched him many times owing to the fact my father in law is a Coventry fan and he was often deployed as a an inside forward/winger or behind Conor Chaplin as a target man for him to win headers. Robins had major injuries on the left of midfield when he was there too, Jody Jones was a longtime absentee, Jordy Hiwula was considered too lightweight and Luke Thomas was tried there too but he’s an out and out box to box midfielder. I actually met JCHs agent last night, a nice fellow, clearly came to see his player and see where he was at. There was no suggestion from him he was engineering a move. But clearly a lot of goals in a certain amount of appearance earns you a rise and an extension. A player that is playing well and enjoying his football isn’t going to stop turning up. A player not getting on with the managers formation and sitting on the bench will upset him and cause that situation. As much as I can understand your frustration at a certain agency and their rep, when you have a couple of players influence other players to swap agents through another trusted pro then there isn’t much you can do. Players have the power these days and you can thank Marc Bosman for that. When we leave the EU in Nov, will it still apply ?
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Post by gashead1981 on Sept 19, 2019 9:02:25 GMT
You really are a pathetic and spiteful person with a clear vendetta towards our owner. It’s a shame you don’t have the balls to say it to his face. Or shall I say, make a coherent protestation towards him, unlike the attempt at the AGM. Wael has an experienced CEO in Martin Starnes. I’m sure he is very capable in handling the negotiations. What do you have against MS? Have you ever dealt with Wael in business? How do you know he would be a disaster? I doubt you have any evidence you could present where your personal dealings prove that to be the case. But we know evidence is not your strong suit. That has been witnessed. You also know little about players other than those at our club. JCH was very well regarded at Coventry, I watched him many times owing to the fact my father in law is a Coventry fan and he was often deployed as a an inside forward/winger or behind Conor Chaplin as a target man for him to win headers. Robins had major injuries on the left of midfield when he was there too, Jody Jones was a longtime absentee, Jordy Hiwula was considered too lightweight and Luke Thomas was tried there too but he’s an out and out box to box midfielder. I actually met JCHs agent last night, a nice fellow, clearly came to see his player and see where he was at. There was no suggestion from him he was engineering a move. But clearly a lot of goals in a certain amount of appearance earns you a rise and an extension. A player that is playing well and enjoying his football isn’t going to stop turning up. A player not getting on with the managers formation and sitting on the bench will upset him and cause that situation. As much as I can understand your frustration at a certain agency and their rep, when you have a couple of players influence other players to swap agents through another trusted pro then there isn’t much you can do. Players have the power these days and you can thank Marc Bosman for that. When we leave the EU in Nov, will it still apply ? Now there's a good question. How does it apply to MLS, J-League, China Superleague? The only leagues I can think of where top pro's also play outside Europe?
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Post by Gassy on Sept 19, 2019 9:33:38 GMT
Ha! Knew it! I was shocked when I saw photos of Holloway there, I actually thought “my god, he’s finally come to attend a Rovers game - maybe he does support us like he says he does” - but as usual he was only there because he was paid to do so. What a surprise! We haven’t paid him, he was due to do hospitality a we weeks back but pulled out as he was offered decent cash to go on talksport so rearranged for last night, Bob sorts the guests out for hospitality and is a mate of mine so I knew him coming along had been in the pipeline for an age . Not sure if he was being paid by whoever is doing the EFL show but you’d imagine so Sorry, was more referring to the EFL show, rather than ourselves paying him. If Rovers started paying Holloway to attend I think I'd strike from attending games tbh 😂 But the point still stands, he only attends if he's a guest in hospitality or being paid by EFL, BBC, ITV, Sky etc.
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