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Post by endicotton on Feb 3, 2020 7:01:43 GMT
I don't think he'll be going anywhere no matter how poorly he does or we play this season so we might aswell get behind him and the team no matter how we feel about his appointment. I stick by what I thought originally, that I believe the club should of recruited from within or hired someone with a similar style to the one we were already implementing but the club chose BG and I shall give him due patience in order to see him become a success at the gas. Assuming Davey always wanted to join GC if Wael had appointed Maher posters would have accussed them of taking the cheap option/ they wanted to move on from GC's style of football. BG joined us just at the wrong time, plus we've no idea if he's up to the job or not. Perhaps getting someone in like Coppell would be a good, but costly (?), move. I don't think too many wanted the style of football changed at that point in time considering we were 4th and just had a great result winning away against Ipswich playing that way. I wonder how much Coppell would ask for, seeing as we should have the money in the budget to get an assistant in due to Joe Dunne leaving.
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Post by worrelsterlingalbion on Feb 3, 2020 7:39:32 GMT
Garner is at the start of a long term project I don't know how many times some people need to hear that before it sinks in. He hasn't been recruited & backed in Jan to be replaced in 6 weeks time. I'm firmly in the give him plenty of time camp but understand others aren't so sure. My issue is with the assumption that had GC stayed we'd be in the play offs now. Don't forget he'd have had to deal with the huge injury list over Christmas. We'll never know how things would have panned out had he stayed but he made his choice, we've now made ours and Garner needs support rather than some of the over the top melt downs we see on a regular basis.
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Post by warwickgas on Feb 3, 2020 8:20:19 GMT
Exactly. At a time when unity and support is needed this OP is negative, divisive and unintelligent
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 8:20:21 GMT
Garner is at the start of a long term project I don't know how many times some people need to hear that before it sinks in. He hasn't been recruited & backed in Jan to be replaced in 6 weeks time. I'm firmly in the give him plenty of time camp but understand others aren't so sure. My issue is with the assumption that had GC stayed we'd be in the play offs now. Don't forget he'd have had to deal with the huge injury list over Christmas. We'll never know how things would have panned out had he stayed but he made his choice, we've now made ours and Garner needs support rather than some of the over the top melt downs we see on a regular basis. So you're saying going 12 games without a win and going defensively fragile was part of this 'long term' project which people don't understand? I obviously missed that memo. The assumption that we would still be somewhere around the play off mix is one based on fact - our form over a calendar year. What's considerably weaker is the assumption BG will be able to put together a winning team. I'd suggest the notion of a long term project in lower league football is in itself dubious as we operate in a short term environment.
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Post by completewingback on Feb 3, 2020 8:22:11 GMT
Garner is at the start of a long term project I don't know how many times some people need to hear that before it sinks in. He hasn't been recruited & backed in Jan to be replaced in 6 weeks time. I'm firmly in the give him plenty of time camp but understand others aren't so sure. My issue is with the assumption that had GC stayed we'd be in the play offs now. Don't forget he'd have had to deal with the huge injury list over Christmas. We'll never know how things would have panned out had he stayed but he made his choice, we've now made ours and Garner needs support rather than some of the over the top melt downs we see on a regular basis. So you're saying going 12 games without a win and going defensively fragile was part of this 'long term' project which people don't understand? I obviously missed that memo. The assumption that we would still be somewhere around the play off mix is one based on fact - our form over a calendar year. What's considerably weaker is the assumption BG will be able to put together a winning team. I'd suggest the notion of a long term project in lower league football is in itself dubious as we operate in a short term environment. None of this matters because Coughlan chose to leave himself, form or no form. Let's move on.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 8:23:08 GMT
Remember Coughlan was a rookie manager. He's also not replicating what he did with us. Football is an unpredictable business. The difference being he was a leader who has a solid reputation at this level and built a side which reflected that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 8:28:55 GMT
Fully agree... We may not have the results but GC's results were built on sand. And BG's managerial career thus far has purely been built on spin.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 8:30:26 GMT
So you're saying going 12 games without a win and going defensively fragile was part of this 'long term' project which people don't understand? I obviously missed that memo. The assumption that we would still be somewhere around the play off mix is one based on fact - our form over a calendar year. What's considerably weaker is the assumption BG will be able to put together a winning team. I'd suggest the notion of a long term project in lower league football is in itself dubious as we operate in a short term environment. None of this matters because Coughlan chose to leave himself, form or no form. Let's move on. I'm all for moving on. Far less enthusiastic about trying to radically change an approach which led us to our best position for nearly two decades.
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Post by worrelsterlingalbion on Feb 3, 2020 8:47:37 GMT
Garner is at the start of a long term project I don't know how many times some people need to hear that before it sinks in. He hasn't been recruited & backed in Jan to be replaced in 6 weeks time. I'm firmly in the give him plenty of time camp but understand others aren't so sure. My issue is with the assumption that had GC stayed we'd be in the play offs now. Don't forget he'd have had to deal with the huge injury list over Christmas. We'll never know how things would have panned out had he stayed but he made his choice, we've now made ours and Garner needs support rather than some of the over the top melt downs we see on a regular basis. So you're saying going 12 games without a win and going defensively fragile was part of this 'long term' project which people don't understand? I obviously missed that memo. The assumption that we would still be somewhere around the play off mix is one based on fact - our form over a calendar year. What's considerably weaker is the assumption BG will be able to put together a winning team. I'd suggest the notion of a long term project in lower league football is in itself dubious as we operate in a short term environment. No what I'm saying is that GC left he wasn't sacked and the recruitment of Garner was a conscious decision by the board to change the way we operate. Now whether you, me or anyone else thinks that was the correct decision is irrelevant. Of course 12 games without a win wasn't part of the master plan but having made that decision there is absolutely no way the board are going to rip it up now especially after backing him in Jan. The new approach may work it may not but I'm of the opinion Garner deserves the opportunity to make it work & that is going to take a lot longer than 12 games.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 9:57:28 GMT
not if Steve Coppell is coming in as his number two - you heard it here first folks We should hear news on this around October
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Post by cj on Feb 3, 2020 9:59:27 GMT
not if Steve Coppell is coming in as his number two - you heard it here first folks We should hear news on this around October Are you sure it won't be in 6 weeks and in 6 weeks time it will be another 6 weeks and so on...
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 3, 2020 10:25:53 GMT
So you're saying going 12 games without a win and going defensively fragile was part of this 'long term' project which people don't understand? I obviously missed that memo. The assumption that we would still be somewhere around the play off mix is one based on fact - our form over a calendar year. What's considerably weaker is the assumption BG will be able to put together a winning team. I'd suggest the notion of a long term project in lower league football is in itself dubious as we operate in a short term environment. No what I'm saying is that GC left he wasn't sacked and the recruitment of Garner was a conscious decision by the board to change the way we operate. Now whether you, me or anyone else thinks that was the correct decision is irrelevant. Of course 12 games without a win wasn't part of the master plan but having made that decision there is absolutely no way the board are going to rip it up now especially after backing him in Jan. The new approach may work it may not but I'm of the opinion Garner deserves the opportunity to make it work & that is going to take a lot longer than 12 games. From past experience, Dodson, Penny, even DC, everything gets toxic if a poor run extends to 15+ games, lets be honest if we do get to 15 games, around Blackpool at home, is BG suddenly going to find the magic formula that wins games after such a poor run, particularly when he can't bring any more players in?
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Post by worrelsterlingalbion on Feb 3, 2020 13:38:39 GMT
No what I'm saying is that GC left he wasn't sacked and the recruitment of Garner was a conscious decision by the board to change the way we operate. Now whether you, me or anyone else thinks that was the correct decision is irrelevant. Of course 12 games without a win wasn't part of the master plan but having made that decision there is absolutely no way the board are going to rip it up now especially after backing him in Jan. The new approach may work it may not but I'm of the opinion Garner deserves the opportunity to make it work & that is going to take a lot longer than 12 games. From past experience, Dodson, Penny, even DC, everything gets toxic if a poor run extends to 15+ games, lets be honest if we do get to 15 games, around Blackpool at home, is BG suddenly going to find the magic formula that wins games after such a poor run, particularly when he can't bring any more players in? Fair question and the honest answer is I don't know. I can't see the board handing him a contract in Dec, sanctioning 7 signings in Jan only to sack him in March/April so whatever happens I think he'll be here until the summer at the very least. Personally I think there are signs of improvement obviously that needs to be backed up with results but I don't think as a board they can expect to bring in a manager with an obvious remit of completely changing our style and not give him the time to do the job he was recruited for.
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Post by pirate on Feb 3, 2020 13:43:54 GMT
You put your Garner in Your Garner out In, out, in, out You shake it all about You appoint Stevie Coppell And you turn it around That's what it's all about
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Post by wilmslowgas on Feb 3, 2020 13:46:36 GMT
Absolutely agree. Who in their right mind would appoint a manager in December, give him additional transfer funds in January but then contemplate sacking him shortly thereafter?
I know this is Rovers but that thinking does appear a little flawed. Apart from anything else if Garner goes we are in for another wedge of severance payments. In our recent past we have lobbed out loads of cash on useless personnel on the playing front. It's time we learnt.
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Post by GasAttacK on Feb 3, 2020 13:57:07 GMT
If we could go back in time to 5pm Saturday 14th December when we were 4th in the table and 1 point off second place I wouldn't give the job to Garner.
However, now we've gone down this route we'll have to follow through and stick with him until at least October / November.
It would be pointless changing manager again now in my opinion. We're not going up and we're not going down. Can't see Tranmere, Southend or Bolton getting 40+ points.
Lets give him the remainder of this season and at least the first 10 - 15 games of next before calling for his head.
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Post by stuartcampbell on Feb 3, 2020 17:20:23 GMT
Exactly. At a time when unity and support is needed this OP is negative, divisive and unintelligent I'm negative despite making it clear i'm hugely Garner-in and conducting a poll out of interest due to the huge division on this forum at the minute. In fact, I can't remember the last time this forum WASN'T divided. People argued over DC leaving, then argued about GC as his replacement, then argued about Lines vs GC then argued about GC's style of play then argued about Garner as his replacement and are still arguing now. The solution might be encouraging different opinions and not claiming anyone who doesn't share the same one with you is "negative, divisive and unintelligent," just a thought!
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Post by romangas on Feb 3, 2020 22:33:49 GMT
Something ain't right at The Gas. GC had us playing...now we are not. It was not pretty,but we had belief. Now we don't. Why has it taken 20 years for Ben Garner to manage a club. Surely Bristol Rovers are worth more than being a BG experiment... The spirit at the club has been diluted since BG took over. Bring back the belief Ben.
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Post by cj on Feb 4, 2020 12:15:08 GMT
lets be honest if we do get to 15 games, around Blackpool at home, is BG suddenly going to find the magic formula that wins games after such a poor run, particularly when he can't bring any more players in? The answer to that question for me personally is simple. I feel he has already found the formula to make us better. It's now down to the players to fit into BG's formula.
Ollie Clarkes interview after Coventry on Saturday confirms the 2 issue's on the pitch at the moment. These are:
- The new way the team is playing under BG means they need better fitness levels and will take a few more weeks to get to the required fitness, especially for the new recruits and returning injured players. So as their fitness improves the results should improve.
- This week is the first full week where BG will have to work with the squad to get them working on implementing his idea's. These extra days will be valuable to BG and will only help with fitness and also help improve performances too, which again should improve the results.
I keep saying it and I am not sure why its like rocket science to some but a change of manager at the club often will mean a step or 2 backwards before that club moves forward again. Look at GC at Mansfield for example. That is at one end of the football pyramid and look at Arsenal at the other end. New manager Arteta and its taking a while for them to win games but everyone can see slow improvements each game. Same applies to us. Patience and understanding from the fans here is key.
I really don't get how some can't seem to see this.
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Feb 4, 2020 12:52:42 GMT
lets be honest if we do get to 15 games, around Blackpool at home, is BG suddenly going to find the magic formula that wins games after such a poor run, particularly when he can't bring any more players in? The answer to that question for me personally is simple. I feel he has already found the formula to make us better. It's now down to the players to fit into BG's formula.
Ollie Clarkes interview after Coventry on Saturday confirms the 2 issue's on the pitch at the moment. These are:
- The new way the team is playing under BG means they need better fitness levels and will take a few more weeks to get to the required fitness, especially for the new recruits and returning injured players. So as their fitness improves the results should improve.
- This week is the first full week where BG will have to work with the squad to get them working on implementing his idea's. These extra days will be valuable to BG and will only help with fitness and also help improve performances too, which again should improve the results.
I keep saying it and I am not sure why its like rocket science to some but a change of manager at the club often will mean a step or 2 backwards before that club moves forward again. Look at GC at Mansfield for example. That is at one end of the football pyramid and look at Arsenal at the other end. New manager Arteta and its taking a while for them to win games but everyone can see slow improvements each game. Same applies to us. Patience and understanding from the fans here is key.
Couldn’t agree more - nicely put. Coughlan to Garner wasn’t just your ordinary managerial change, it represented an identity shift & cultural reboot for the team and club overall. Logic would suggest that more time on the training field with the players will = better football and results. If it doesn’t then there’s potentially another discussion to be had at the end of the season, but it’s not a discussion to be having in the very early stages of this fairly large transition Garner’s undertaking, IMO.
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