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Post by Gassy on Mar 18, 2020 11:11:20 GMT
Many years? A patent lasts 20 years, just like any other patent of any other industry. A pharma company files for that patent as soon as the molecule is discovered, so they then have 20 years in hope that it develops into something useful. R&D take about 12-13 years roughly so they only have 7 years to sell the product, in which the average spend on a drug is $ 2 billion. So yeah, considering the spend I wouldn't expect a pharma company to share the profits until they're forced to. It's the money from that that is used to fund other novel treatments. Big pharma aren't innocent in the slightest, but they're just as bad as insurance, banks and stock markets. At least in pharmaceuticals most of the workers in the industry want to help people, in insurance they're there to screw people. The drug used on me costs 10K per one gramme infusion. I call that robbery. A generic has been made and the cost of that is less than £300 so you can probably understand why I get angry about it. People die because they can’t get the drug. The generic is not allowed due to the patent. How can anyone justify 10K when you have the same at £300 I understand your anger, but making the drug itself costs barely anything mate, they're re-cooping the costs they've spent in developing that drug, which will most likely be billions of pounds and take 12 years or more. If you've spent $2 billion to develop a drug and to get your return on investment you need to price it at £10k, would you price it at £10k or £300? The reason the generic is charging £300 is because they've spent a fraction of the cost developing it. Be thankful we're not in the US where drug prices actually increase as time goes on. Now that is a f*cked up market. If there is a generic that has copied it then that it illegal under patent rules here, so I'm not quite sure that makes sense. As soon as the patent expires the company will lower their price or the NHS (Advised by NICE) will go with the competitor, whichever is more cost effective. The other drug might not also be a generic, it could just be another treatment. NICE (government agency) completes a health technology assessment on every intervention that wants to enter the UK market. They weight up the cost vs extra amount of years a patient will live. It also takes into account the standard of living and if someone can go back to work (paying back into the system is the priority). They will then do an analysis and whichever comes out as the most effective will be bought by the NHS. It get's a lot deeper than this, but effectively NICE put's a rough cost on each person's life per year (called a QALY - quality adjusted life year), which is roughly £20k-£30k per year. This changes per indication, but sometimes it's not always the fault of the company, but rather the health system.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Mar 18, 2020 11:23:00 GMT
The drug used on me costs 10K per one gramme infusion. I call that robbery. A generic has been made and the cost of that is less than £300 so you can probably understand why I get angry about it. People die because they can’t get the drug. The generic is not allowed due to the patent. How can anyone justify 10K when you have the same at £300 I understand your anger, but making the drug itself costs barely anything mate, they're re-cooping the costs they've spent in developing that drug, which will most likely be billions of pounds and take 12 years or more. If you've spent $2 billion to develop a drug and to get your return on investment you need to price it at £10k, would you price it at £10k or £300? The reason the generic is charging £300 is because they've spent a fraction of the cost developing it. Be thankful we're not in the US where drug prices actually increase as time goes on. Now that is a f*cked up market. If there is a generic that has copied it then that it illegal under patent rules here, so I'm not quite sure that makes sense. As soon as the patent expires the company will lower their price or the NHS (Advised by NICE) will go with the competitor, whichever is more cost effective. The other drug might not also be a generic, it could just be another treatment. NICE (government agency) completes a health technology assessment on every intervention that wants to enter the UK market. They weight up the cost vs extra amount of years a patient will live. It also takes into account the standard of living and if someone can go back to work (paying back into the system is the priority). They will then do an analysis and whichever comes out as the most effective will be bought by the NHS. It get's a lot deeper than this, but effectively NICE put's a rough cost on each person's life per year (called a QALY - quality adjusted life year), which is roughly £20k-£30k per year. This changes per indication, but sometimes it's not always the fault of the company, but rather the health system. Sadly, I know all about the cost affective thing, up close and personal as there is another drug that has been proven to work in over 90% of all that are afflicted but I was told that I wouldn’t be considered for it due to my not returning to work. That was cold and hard to hear. To know that there is a drug that is highly likely to cure and not just slow down my crap but not be allowed it, it really hit me hard.
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Post by Gassy on Mar 18, 2020 11:41:51 GMT
I understand your anger, but making the drug itself costs barely anything mate, they're re-cooping the costs they've spent in developing that drug, which will most likely be billions of pounds and take 12 years or more. If you've spent $2 billion to develop a drug and to get your return on investment you need to price it at £10k, would you price it at £10k or £300? The reason the generic is charging £300 is because they've spent a fraction of the cost developing it. Be thankful we're not in the US where drug prices actually increase as time goes on. Now that is a f*cked up market. If there is a generic that has copied it then that it illegal under patent rules here, so I'm not quite sure that makes sense. As soon as the patent expires the company will lower their price or the NHS (Advised by NICE) will go with the competitor, whichever is more cost effective. The other drug might not also be a generic, it could just be another treatment. NICE (government agency) completes a health technology assessment on every intervention that wants to enter the UK market. They weight up the cost vs extra amount of years a patient will live. It also takes into account the standard of living and if someone can go back to work (paying back into the system is the priority). They will then do an analysis and whichever comes out as the most effective will be bought by the NHS. It get's a lot deeper than this, but effectively NICE put's a rough cost on each person's life per year (called a QALY - quality adjusted life year), which is roughly £20k-£30k per year. This changes per indication, but sometimes it's not always the fault of the company, but rather the health system. Sadly, I know all about the cost affective thing, up close and personal as there is another drug that has been proven to work in over 90% of all that are afflicted but I was told that I wouldn’t be considered for it due to my not returning to work. That was cold and hard to hear. To know that there is a drug that is highly likely to cure and not just slow down my crap but not be allowed it, it really hit me hard. Hello mate, I'm sorry to hear that, I really am. Do you mind PM'ing me the details of therapy and also the other cheaper drug? I can take a look into it? It's a sad matter of life that generally, the system prioritises the young and healthy. It's something that I hate about the industry. Their priority is to get those who can work, back into work so they continue paying into the system. Doesn't matter if you've been paying your whole life and taken barely anything out of it, as soon as you're not working, you're not as much of a priority. I guess in other ways that's where the US system can be slightly better with healthcare being covered by insurance, assuming you can afford it.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Mar 18, 2020 11:53:15 GMT
Sadly, I know all about the cost affective thing, up close and personal as there is another drug that has been proven to work in over 90% of all that are afflicted but I was told that I wouldn’t be considered for it due to my not returning to work. That was cold and hard to hear. To know that there is a drug that is highly likely to cure and not just slow down my crap but not be allowed it, it really hit me hard. Hello mate, I'm sorry to hear that, I really am. Do you mind PM'ing me the details of therapy and also the other cheaper drug? I can take a look into it? It's a sad matter of life that generally, the system prioritises the young and healthy. It's something that I hate about the industry. Their priority is to get those who can work, back into work so they continue paying into the system. Doesn't matter if you've been paying your whole life and taken barely anything out of it, as soon as you're not working, you're not as much of a priority. I guess in other ways that's where the US system can be slightly better with healthcare being covered by insurance, assuming you can afford it. I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but I have had 15 years of coping with 2 chronic diseases but managing , as best I could and not moaning about those but then came the additional Wegeners granulomatosis and I genuinely have had enough so have reconciled myself to what will be will be. I have had a meeting of the specialists to try to have me as a case for extraordinary measures and was turned down. The drug is called Ciliq and I am not going to be allowed it. I’d rather just leave it at that to be honest as, the more I seem to talk/write about it, the more I seem to suffer. I do think that stress makes it worse & so I have just left it at that. I do really appreciate your offer but I am genuinely tired of even going on about it. I only brought it up as it fitted in with the topic being discussed. I really am done with fighting it all. It’s taken a huge toll on me and unless someone asks, I now tend to leave it alone. Sorry if this seems ignorant or rude as it’s not meant that way. I’m just truly beaten up by trying to deal with the 3 things. I am now being given decent pain relief and, so long as I can keep the pain controlled, I’m ok with that
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 18, 2020 11:54:59 GMT
Each club nominates their best Subbuteo player who goes to a hotel with Subbuteo players from other clubs. They could play the remaining games on a Sunday afternoon I’d definitely be up for watching that. Would probably be more entertaining than the real football we’ve had to endure lately. I loved subbuteo when I was a kid. I painted the 1990 championship winning team on my Rovers side. Steve Yates Es, and im a lot owith his white sock tape , got a small ball of blue tack and stuck it on billy oceans head - painted it black ,same for Percy , Brian Parkins curtains , jocks moustache , Boris ginger hair, billy oceans blue cycling shorts, Andy boothroyds skin head. Great side. For Christmas - birthdays my parents bought me some of the terraces and stands and I made Twerton park. Yes I was a football geek. Socrates, we’re all football geeks. That’s why at our ages, and I’m a lot older than you, we still post on a Rovers forum. The modern day equivalent of subbuteo. 😉 ps. My favourite subbuteo team from the late 60s early 70s was Norwich, yellow and green. Don’t know why but I still have it. How sad!!
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 18, 2020 12:06:09 GMT
Just a small point...children are not "not affected". They can still contract it and therefore can still spread it to more vulnerable people. Then you have to consider that sadly not every child is invincible. Plenty with underlying health issues that would make them just as high risk as any other vulnerable person. And as a parent who takes their kid to school I can confirm that 15 minutes every morning taking my child to school and 15 minutes every afternoon in the play ground picking them up amounts to much more physical contact and range of 2 metres + around people over a 5 day week than 90 minutes once a week at a football ground. I’m not saying that the fa are wrong to postpone football I think it makes sense but I do think that Boris Johnson has tonight thrown thousands of companies under the bus because he’s urged people to stay away from pretty much everywhere but hasn’t declared lockdown. Insurance companies are breathing a sigh of relief. Fingers in financial pies , all of them. The likes of Rees- mogg - doing cartwheels. Just when it looked like Brexit was the biggest political disaster capitalist movement in our history Johnson just said “ hold my beer”. As you say. And you can be sure of one thing, BJ and his cronies will come out of this wealthier. Whilst the rest of us, and I’m just retired so not as affected, esp those who are working will be badly affected. Just like our current chancellor who did very well after the 2008 collapse as opposed to those who had lives ruined through no fault of their own. Some simple wording about the current situation and millions of people would be better off but as you say business is prioritised over people. UTG!
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Post by Gassy on Mar 18, 2020 12:37:33 GMT
Hello mate, I'm sorry to hear that, I really am. Do you mind PM'ing me the details of therapy and also the other cheaper drug? I can take a look into it? It's a sad matter of life that generally, the system prioritises the young and healthy. It's something that I hate about the industry. Their priority is to get those who can work, back into work so they continue paying into the system. Doesn't matter if you've been paying your whole life and taken barely anything out of it, as soon as you're not working, you're not as much of a priority. I guess in other ways that's where the US system can be slightly better with healthcare being covered by insurance, assuming you can afford it. I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but I have had 15 years of coping with 2 chronic diseases but managing , as best I could and not moaning about those but then came the additional Wegeners granulomatosis and I genuinely have had enough so have reconciled myself to what will be will be. I have had a meeting of the specialists to try to have me as a case for extraordinary measures and was turned down. The drug is called Ciliq and I am not going to be allowed it. I’d rather just leave it at that to be honest as, the more I seem to talk/write about it, the more I seem to suffer. I do think that stress makes it worse & so I have just left it at that. I do really appreciate your offer but I am genuinely tired of even going on about it. I only brought it up as it fitted in with the topic being discussed. I really am done with fighting it all. It’s taken a huge toll on me and unless someone asks, I now tend to leave it alone. Sorry if this seems ignorant or rude as it’s not meant that way. I’m just truly beaten up by trying to deal with the 3 things. I am now being given decent pain relief and, so long as I can keep the pain controlled, I’m ok with that Sorry KP, didn't mean to go on about it or stir any feelings up. No offence taken here, I completely understand where you're coming from. Be well and I'm sure I speak for us all when I say in these times if you need any help, don't be afraid to ask. We're all a gas family here
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Mar 19, 2020 11:15:28 GMT
I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but I have had 15 years of coping with 2 chronic diseases but managing , as best I could and not moaning about those but then came the additional Wegeners granulomatosis and I genuinely have had enough so have reconciled myself to what will be will be. I have had a meeting of the specialists to try to have me as a case for extraordinary measures and was turned down. The drug is called Ciliq and I am not going to be allowed it. I’d rather just leave it at that to be honest as, the more I seem to talk/write about it, the more I seem to suffer. I do think that stress makes it worse & so I have just left it at that. I do really appreciate your offer but I am genuinely tired of even going on about it. I only brought it up as it fitted in with the topic being discussed. I really am done with fighting it all. It’s taken a huge toll on me and unless someone asks, I now tend to leave it alone. Sorry if this seems ignorant or rude as it’s not meant that way. I’m just truly beaten up by trying to deal with the 3 things. I am now being given decent pain relief and, so long as I can keep the pain controlled, I’m ok with that Sorry KP, didn't mean to go on about it or stir any feelings up. No offence taken here, I completely understand where you're coming from. Be well and I'm sure I speak for us all when I say in these times if you need any help, don't be afraid to ask. We're all a gas family here I , literally, would not be here if not for the justgiving page and so many of you chipping in. I will never forget that. I am still very humbled by it. It gave me enough for 3 infusions then NICE had a meeting & decided it would be wrong to change back to the older and not so effective treatment, that came with many more side effects. Thank you for the kindness shown & I may take you up on it, dependent on how it goes. Right now I am having the awful attacks of the disease around 3 times per month, due to the drug just stopping it efficacy so it takes me around a week to 10 days to get over each episode. I am bed bound. in that time. My nephew & niece do help but both work so it can be both tricky and frightening. It’s not death that bothers me but the diabolical pain. I just suck on a fentanyl lolly or use Oramorph, to knock me out until they can get to me. GOD bless all those that helped. I was not supposed to be here by now. You guys bought me that time. I’m hoping I can repay that in some way at a suitable time, preferably before any wake 😱 EDIT Just to add, when people see me at games, I have doubled up on pain meds plus the steroids give me a look of being ok. I have had people question the truth in my health issues, been called a blagger & worse. I have learned to take no notice. In the main, the vast majority have been very kind & helpful and it really is appreciated To those who wish to believe otherwise, I hold no ill will to them nor would I wish this on any of them. Frankly, I feel blessed that I’m still here. I remain hopeful and that’s all that counts. I try to keep my yoomer intact too, if you lose your sense of yoomer then it just as well be over
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Post by lastminutewinner on Mar 19, 2020 14:01:34 GMT
Ok thanks mate think this will be a nightmare virus for us as a club, not on a great financial footing, almost inevitable that JCH goes now which will be sad. We will just have to wait and see how the virus plays out. What state the club will be in at that time no one can say. Tbh l am not sure there will be any competitive professional football played during the next 12 to 18 months. Certainly cannot see the current season being completed. Next season is also unlikely. Utg
Id be happy for this season to be written off, it was over for us anyway, and the thought of seeing that smug twat Matty Taylor score a likely goal or two at Oxford would have really made the water boil.
I worry for the fitness of Barrettt when he returns though. Hopefully takeaways will close down.
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