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Post by Topper Gas on May 9, 2020 11:29:35 GMT
It’s made no impact whatsoever. What would be a more sensible question is how many gasheads pump money into the pockets of the PL by subscribing to pay to view sports tv. I would happily bet some people who call themselves gasheads spend more money on subscription sport tv than they do at the Mem. We’ve got the Football landscape the country demands. It’s like moaning about how the butcher on the high street closed down but getting all our shopping in Asda. No, it's more like shopping in the butcher because you want to support his business but when ASDA say that they're sending their under 18 butchers to get experience by working in the high street butcher 1 day a week and will only be selling ASDA produce on that day, you go and buy your meat from the ASDA kiddies who you've expressly stated you don't want to buy your meat from. Then when people question you about how that will impact the wider perception of local support for supermarket butchery you say you've got a right to go to that butcher any day you like because that's what you've been doing for 40 years. And then when the announcement of the closure of the butcher's comes, saying that the two aren't in the least connected. Chewbacca is right, Shaun Harvey was telling lies about the public perception of that competition years ago on the basis that 1,000 odd people turned up. If there had been outright and absolute boycott of that it would make this suggestion less saleable. But there wasn't, so it isn't. It was supporters of clubs like Sunderland & Pompey who made the EFL Trophy a reasonable success by turning up in large numbers at Wembley, not the few hundred who turned up at the Mem. I don't really understand how Pompey fans went from being one of the most vocal set of fans, even walking out of the ground, but then turned up in large number last season for the final and were going to do the same this season, even though they were only play god damn Salford with their handful of plastic fans. |
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Post by LJG on May 9, 2020 11:33:21 GMT
No, it's more like shopping in the butcher because you want to support his business but when ASDA say that they're sending their under 18 butchers to get experience by working in the high street butcher 1 day a week and will only be selling ASDA produce on that day, you go and buy your meat from the ASDA kiddies who you've expressly stated you don't want to buy your meat from. Then when people question you about how that will impact the wider perception of local support for supermarket butchery you say you've got a right to go to that butcher any day you like because that's what you've been doing for 40 years. And then when the announcement of the closure of the butcher's comes, saying that the two aren't in the least connected. Chewbacca is right, Shaun Harvey was telling lies about the public perception of that competition years ago on the basis that 1,000 odd people turned up. If there had been outright and absolute boycott of that it would make this suggestion less saleable. But there wasn't, so it isn't. It was supporters of clubs like Sunderland & Pompey who made the EFL Trophy a reasonable success by turning up in large numbers at Wembley, not the few hundred who turned up at the Mem. I don't really understand how Pompey fans went from being one of the most vocal set of fans, even walking out of the ground, but then turned up in large number last season for the final and were going to do the same this season, even though they were only play god damn Salford with their handful of plastic fans. It was every single person who went to any single game. |
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Post by LJG on May 9, 2020 11:37:59 GMT
Football fans in this country have determined the future of the game in this country by the support of Sky Tv and the PL. We are soon to get exactly what the customer, on the whole, has demanded. The splitting away of the top two tiers from the rest of football. Massive global appeal and a fairly successful England side. That success has obviously meant clubs like ours has no prospect of competing in our current guise. Fans at all levels have financed that success and without so much as a whimper. Now we’re faced with the reality some don’t like it. The EFL Trophy was a great little opportunity for fans to show their disgust by sitting on their arses at home watching champions league football on the telly. You really couldn’t make it up. Talk about bolting the stable door once the horse has bolted. You keep repeating your point but you never respond to the rebuttals anyone puts to you. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 11:52:27 GMT
Those who didn’t boycott. SHAME ON YOU. You have contributed to this being discussed, rather than try nip it in the bud early. you are a massive problem and ammo to make this a possibility. I’ll walk away from it all if this happens. But you enjoy propping up the B teams. You had your chance, you cannot complain. How have 800 people brought this resolution to the table? The premier league saw the hordes of people rattling around in a single stand while the rest of the ground was closed and concluded that there is an appetite for B teams? They know full well that the vast majority of fans couldn’t give a monkey’s about the the JPT or whatever it’s called these days, there most likely isn’t even a correlation at all. The premier league have spotted an opportunity to use financial hardship in the lower leagues to leverage their own aims: ie give their youth teams the chance to play against grown men on a regular basis which is (presumably) seen by them as being better than under 23 football. When you take the rose tinted specs off it actually makes good business sense for them to try and pull that off, as such they most likely would be doing this anyway regardless of what format the JPT has been using. But, whilst it might make good business sense for the PL is it in the spirit of the game to do so? No, because it’s patronising in the extreme. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the Premier league hold a load of cash above the league one and two clubs heads, enough to keep ensure they survive this pandemic and say “if you want it you have to accept our B teams” and then it becomes a case of if you want your club to survive you have to commit to watching them play premier league youth teams every other game. I hope most would rather watch their team go bust and reform further down the pyramid. Football is simply not important enough to put up with such a denigration of the competition. |
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Post by LJG on May 9, 2020 11:55:44 GMT
Those who didn’t boycott. SHAME ON YOU. You have contributed to this being discussed, rather than try nip it in the bud early. you are a massive problem and ammo to make this a possibility. I’ll walk away from it all if this happens. But you enjoy propping up the B teams. You had your chance, you cannot complain. How have 800 people brought this resolution to the table? The premier league saw the hordes of people rattling around in a single stand while the rest of the ground was closed and concluded that there is an appetite for B teams? They know full well that the vast majority of fans couldn’t give a monkey’s about the the JPT or whatever it’s called these days, there most likely isn’t even a correlation at all. The premier league have spotted an opportunity to use financial hardship in the lower leagues to leverage their own aims: ie give their youth teams the chance to play against grown men on a regular basis which is (presumably) seen by them as being better than under 23 football. When you take the rose tinted specs off it actually makes good business sense for them to try and pull that off, as such they most likely would be doing this anyway regardless of what format the JPT has been using. But, whilst it might make good business sense for the PL is it in the spirit of the game to do so? No, because it’s patronising in the extreme. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the Premier league hold a load of cash above the league one and two clubs heads, enough to keep ensure they survive this pandemic and say “if you want it you have to accept our B teams” and then it becomes a case of if you want your club to survive you have to commit to watching them play premier league youth teams every other game. I hope most would rather watch their team go bust and reform further down the pyramid. Football is simply not important enough to put up with such a denigration of the competition. They haven't seen 800 people rattling around and concluded anything. They already had the premise made and wanted to be able to spin it. The people who attended gave them the opportunity to do that. There's absolutely no way anyone can deny that. It's completely irrefutable. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 12:13:06 GMT
How have 800 people brought this resolution to the table? The premier league saw the hordes of people rattling around in a single stand while the rest of the ground was closed and concluded that there is an appetite for B teams? They know full well that the vast majority of fans couldn’t give a monkey’s about the the JPT or whatever it’s called these days, there most likely isn’t even a correlation at all. The premier league have spotted an opportunity to use financial hardship in the lower leagues to leverage their own aims: ie give their youth teams the chance to play against grown men on a regular basis which is (presumably) seen by them as being better than under 23 football. When you take the rose tinted specs off it actually makes good business sense for them to try and pull that off, as such they most likely would be doing this anyway regardless of what format the JPT has been using. But, whilst it might make good business sense for the PL is it in the spirit of the game to do so? No, because it’s patronising in the extreme. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the Premier league hold a load of cash above the league one and two clubs heads, enough to keep ensure they survive this pandemic and say “if you want it you have to accept our B teams” and then it becomes a case of if you want your club to survive you have to commit to watching them play premier league youth teams every other game. I hope most would rather watch their team go bust and reform further down the pyramid. Football is simply not important enough to put up with such a denigration of the competition. They haven't seen 800 people rattling around and concluded anything. They already had the premise made and wanted to be able to spin it. The people who attended gave them the opportunity to do that. There's absolutely no way anyone can deny that. It's completely irrefutable. You mean 800 odd people set some sort of a precedent that under 23 teams would be tolerated? I think you give them too much credit if that’s the case. The JPT is immaterial in the grand scheme of things- it makes good business sense for the premier league clubs to form “strategic alliances” with lower league clubs and it’s just a logical conclusion that would have happened under any condition where the lower leagues simply ran out of money. In fact they have probably been asking nicely long before under 23 teams entered the JPT but now they have the leverage to tell these clubs to comply and form an alliance, or just potentially go bust. Hobson’s choice. |
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Post by LJG on May 9, 2020 12:17:25 GMT
They haven't seen 800 people rattling around and concluded anything. They already had the premise made and wanted to be able to spin it. The people who attended gave them the opportunity to do that. There's absolutely no way anyone can deny that. It's completely irrefutable. I think you give them too much credit if that’s the case. The JPT is immaterial in the grand scheme of things- it makes good business sense for the premier league clubs to form “strategic alliances” with lower league clubs and it’s just a logical conclusion that would have happened under any condition where the lower leagues simply ran out of money. In fact they have probably been asking nicely long before under 23 teams entered the JPT but now they have the leverage to tell these clubs to comply and form an alliance, or just potentially go bust. Hobson’s choice. No. That's literally the opposite of what I said. The PL wanted the under 23s. If no one had turned up they couldn't spin it as anything but total rejection. People turned up. They span it as acceptance. In response to your point- it's not really Hobson’s choice. There is nothing to say that professional football clubs must play in the EFL. That's just the most popular (i.e. the monopoly) competition for professional football in England. |
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Post by axegas on May 9, 2020 12:28:18 GMT
How have 800 people brought this resolution to the table? The premier league saw the hordes of people rattling around in a single stand while the rest of the ground was closed and concluded that there is an appetite for B teams? They know full well that the vast majority of fans couldn’t give a monkey’s about the the JPT or whatever it’s called these days, there most likely isn’t even a correlation at all. The premier league have spotted an opportunity to use financial hardship in the lower leagues to leverage their own aims: ie give their youth teams the chance to play against grown men on a regular basis which is (presumably) seen by them as being better than under 23 football. When you take the rose tinted specs off it actually makes good business sense for them to try and pull that off, as such they most likely would be doing this anyway regardless of what format the JPT has been using. But, whilst it might make good business sense for the PL is it in the spirit of the game to do so? No, because it’s patronising in the extreme. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the Premier league hold a load of cash above the league one and two clubs heads, enough to keep ensure they survive this pandemic and say “if you want it you have to accept our B teams” and then it becomes a case of if you want your club to survive you have to commit to watching them play premier league youth teams every other game. I hope most would rather watch their team go bust and reform further down the pyramid. Football is simply not important enough to put up with such a denigration of the competition. They haven't seen 800 people rattling around and concluded anything. They already had the premise made and wanted to be able to spin it. The people who attended gave them the opportunity to do that. There's absolutely no way anyone can deny that. It's completely irrefutable. If they’ve so successfully spun the premise, why aren’t there B teams in English Football then? The proposal was put on the table years ago then taken off it quickly because the EFL clubs put their foot down and said they categorically didn’t want it. Then the EFL trophy was set up to appease the Premier League clubs who wanted more senior opponents for their academy youngsters but in a way that wouldn’t include them in the football pyramid like on the continent, without it Premier League clubs would be pushing even harder for B teams in the English game IMO because there wouldn’t be that opportunity there for their U23 sides. |
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Post by darkbluegas on May 9, 2020 12:31:10 GMT
Those who didn’t boycott. SHAME ON YOU. You have contributed to this being discussed, rather than try nip it in the bud early. you are a massive problem and ammo to make this a possibility. I’ll walk away from it all if this happens. But you enjoy propping up the B teams. You had your chance, you cannot complain. How have 800 people brought this resolution to the table? The premier league saw the hordes of people rattling around in a single stand while the rest of the ground was closed and concluded that there is an appetite for B teams? They know full well that the vast majority of fans couldn’t give a monkey’s about the the JPT or whatever it’s called these days, there most likely isn’t even a correlation at all. The premier league have spotted an opportunity to use financial hardship in the lower leagues to leverage their own aims: ie give their youth teams the chance to play against grown men on a regular basis which is (presumably) seen by them as being better than under 23 football. When you take the rose tinted specs off it actually makes good business sense for them to try and pull that off, as such they most likely would be doing this anyway regardless of what format the JPT has been using. But, whilst it might make good business sense for the PL is it in the spirit of the game to do so? No, because it’s patronising in the extreme. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the Premier league hold a load of cash above the league one and two clubs heads, enough to keep ensure they survive this pandemic and say “if you want it you have to accept our B teams” and then it becomes a case of if you want your club to survive you have to commit to watching them play premier league youth teams every other game. I hope most would rather watch their team go bust and reform further down the pyramid. Football is simply not important enough to put up with such a denigration of the competition. I agree but fear you maybe wasting your breath here. Most would rather blame the EFL Trophy than face the uncomfortable truth about how this situation has come about. |
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Post by barumgas on May 9, 2020 12:42:43 GMT
Football League clubs voted B Teams into their competition, this is an extension of that. People that propped up that tournament by attending need to ask if that was worth it. It’s made no impact whatsoever. What would be a more sensible question is how many gasheads pump money into the pockets of the PL by subscribing to pay to view sports tv. I would happily bet some people who call themselves gasheads spend more money on subscription sport tv than they do at the Mem. We’ve got the Football landscape the country demands. It’s like moaning about how the butcher on the high street closed down but getting all our shopping in Asda. I do not watch PL football nor do I subscribe to Sky or BT. I am a Gashead loyal and true |
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Post by amgas on May 9, 2020 13:11:15 GMT
If this happens it will be 100% down to club owners trying to save their own position.
If numerous clubs go bust it will still be possible to field a full 3 divisions in the EFL.
For every club that goes under there are plenty lower down the pyramid to take their place. The players may end up paid a lot less, or even part time, but plenty still wanted to play the game when footballers were paid less in the past.
If Rovers go bust I am more than happy that the fan base will start a Phoenix club that will have enough support to rise up through the pyramid and find our way back to a decent level. The only way that won't happen is if those league places are taken by B sides.
The simplest solution is for government to pass laws to protect sporting venues for community use. Then it is a case of if a club goes bust their ground cannot be sold for development.
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Post by rememberhalifax on May 9, 2020 13:31:05 GMT
I have no idea if this is a plan which the EFL would seriously consider, but surely it can only happen if the majority vote for it.
No doubt some clubs in the championship will see the cash signs in front of them ,are driven purely by greed and ambition and will happily take the bribe , with no thought of clubs lower down the pyramid, i give you are neighbours as a prime example.
As an analogy its a bit like some one trying desperately to keep up with the rich family up the road and getting into severe debt by trying to do so, if they realise that there family don't want to live like that ,(for family read supporters)under constant financial pressure and worry the house is going to be repossessed , they would much rather have a smaller manageable house and lees expensive material things(players)and live happily among like minded folk.
The Efl need to have the balls to say no thank you, you go your way we will go ours and we will see you in a few years when every thing goes pear shaped at the top.
This horrible virus thing gives football at our level the chance to start again with a clean slate, sensible max wages, less pressure on owners, even if it means some part time players, so all involved are in it for the love of the game and not going bankrupt by chasing the end of the rainbow! The end product would be just the same, fans would still watch in there thousands ,players would play cos they love the game not for the money, if you had the choice of 500 quid a wk for working 40 hrs in a factory or 500 for playing football? no brainer!
So EFL clubs hers your chance as DC would say ,forget the past, dust yourself down, and start all over again, its about time!
ps on a lighter note just watched 1990,semi what a game, one of best ever, shame about ending!
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Post by chewbacca on May 9, 2020 13:41:37 GMT
Very interesting that people who have attended the only current tournament with B Teams in, don’t think they are at all to blame for the potential inclusion of B Teams in the league. Like watering your pants because it’s cold.
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Post by sodburygas on May 9, 2020 14:25:39 GMT
Where is the Efl saying that b teams is potentially happening?. I attended the efl trophy games and I'm interested that this has caused the potential b team introduction but can only see some bloke from Brighton offering his opinion?
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Post by daniel300380 on May 9, 2020 15:36:32 GMT
Amazing how a little competition brought down the traditional structure of English football. Nothing to do with Sky TV and the formation of the Premier League. Absolutely not caused at all by the influx of untaxed foreign income at a level some countries could only dream of matching with their GDP. The demise of football in lower leagues was, when we look back on these times was caused by 826 people watching us play some team no one really cares about Football League clubs voted B Teams into their competition, this is an extension of that. People that propped up that tournament by attending need to ask if that was worth it. The two are completely separate. If they were not voted into the trophy, they would want to join the league even more. The boycott was a waste of time in the first place. Two totally separate things, but a lot of people can't seem to see that. They will always want them to join the league. Already the trophy gave them some game time, so they were not as bothered as before. |
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Post by daniel300380 on May 9, 2020 15:42:12 GMT
Very interesting that people who have attended the only current tournament with B Teams in, don’t think they are at all to blame for the potential inclusion of B Teams in the league. Like watering your pants because it’s cold. . Very interesting that anyone thinks it has any bearing on the league. It will all come down to money at the end of the day. They would still want to join the league, if they were not in the trophy. IMO they would want to join the league more, if they were not in the trophy. As they still wouldn't be getting any competitive games, against senior sides. |
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Post by daniel300380 on May 9, 2020 15:44:10 GMT
I have no idea if this is a plan which the EFL would seriously consider, but surely it can only happen if the majority vote for it. No doubt some clubs in the championship will see the cash signs in front of them ,are driven purely by greed and ambition and will happily take the bribe , with no thought of clubs lower down the pyramid, i give you are neighbours as a prime example. As an analogy its a bit like some one trying desperately to keep up with the rich family up the road and getting into severe debt by trying to do so, if they realise that there family don't want to live like that ,(for family read supporters)under constant financial pressure and worry the house is going to be repossessed , they would much rather have a smaller manageable house and lees expensive material things(players)and live happily among like minded folk. The Efl need to have the balls to say no thank you, you go your way we will go ours and we will see you in a few years when every thing goes pear shaped at the top. This horrible virus thing gives football at our level the chance to start again with a clean slate, sensible max wages, less pressure on owners, even if it means some part time players, so all involved are in it for the love of the game and not going bankrupt by chasing the end of the rainbow! The end product would be just the same, fans would still watch in there thousands ,players would play cos they love the game not for the money, if you had the choice of 500 quid a wk for working 40 hrs in a factory or 500 for playing football? no brainer! So EFL clubs hers your chance as DC would say ,forget the past, dust yourself down, and start all over again, its about time! ps on a lighter note just watched 1990,semi what a game, one of best ever, shame about ending! It would have to be voted in. They tried before and nearly every club voted against it. At the end of the day, clubs will only vote yes, if it suits them. So it will all come down to if they pay enough to buy votes. |
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Post by matealotblue on May 9, 2020 16:07:26 GMT
Bit confused here with the logic.....if putting U23 teams in the Trophy competition has been met with such derision and paltry crowds how will an extension of this with B teams in the league and this, presumably, also being met with the same paltry attendances and derision help any football club?
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Post by axegas on May 9, 2020 16:15:42 GMT
Bit confused here with the logic.....if putting U23 teams in the Trophy competition has been met with such derision and paltry crowds how will an extension of this with B teams in the league and this, presumably, also being met with the same paltry attendances and derision help any football club? It’s never been about helping Football League clubs, introducing B teams into L1 and L2 is just what the Prem clubs want. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 16:19:38 GMT
I doubt league one and two clubs would vote for this idea from a brighton employee.
Straight away clubs would lose season ticket holders or should i say even more season ticket holders.
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